Lag Bolting a 2x10 to Pole Building Posts

[SI86]

I want to Lag bolt 2 2x10s sandwiched together to my garage post. The Posts are 4x6's. to act as a Ledgar Board to set a storage loft on.

I guess my question is... will lag bolts be ok to use and not have to worry about them breaking or ripping out under a load?

 

[Mike in Ohio]

Do you have access to the back side? I would use carriage bolts with big washers on the back side if I could get to it with the nuts and washers.

 

[Krodad]

Not sure how you are detailing the support for the other end of the loft, but you could just cripple a 2x4 to the posts, and support ledger on this to deal with the load, then use big ledger screws, like what is used a lot now for deck ledger boards

 

[theoldwizard1]

ABSOLUTELY NO ON THE LAG BOLTS ! When subject to a large load they will pull out over time.

Galvanized through bolts are better, but I don't think even they would be approved.

You should really "sister" 2 -2x6s on to the post that run all the way down to the footing. The 2x10s would sit on top of these 2x6s.

The deck beam below, is composed of two 2x10's that is not bearing on the column. Rather the 2x10's are BOLTED to the sides of the columns. Therefore the deck is supported by a few bolts rather than on a continuous load path (wood on wood on concrete footing).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not sure how you are detailing the support for the other end of the loft, but you could just cripple a 2x4 to the posts, and support ledger on this to deal with the load, then use big ledger screws, like what is used a lot now for deck ledger boards

A deck ledger board attached to a house is a whole different animal. The load is spread over a large length and picked up by MULTIPLE lags.

 

[SI86]

Do you have access to the back side? I would use carriage bolts with big washers on the back side if I could get to it with the nuts and washers.[/QUOT

I can... but I already have my exterior siding on. there is 2x4 perlins running horizontal for my metal siding. so I got 1 1/2" of room to work with. so if Im careful enough I can do it with out putting the bit through the siding! haha


I like the idea of running 2x's from the floor up to help support the weight.

 

[Krodad]

A deck ledger board attached to a house is a whole different animal. The load is spread over a large length and picked up by MULTIPLE lags.

in my suggestion the ledger load would be supported in the same manner you also suggested...just using the long ledger screws to keep the ledger located. Still directing the load path to the floor with cripple studs...this is assuming the other side is constructed so the entire load is directed down, rather than out.

 

[SI86]

in my suggestion the ledger load would be supported in the same manner you also suggested...just using the long ledger screws to keep the ledger located. Still directing the load path to the floor with cripple studs...this is assuming the other side is constructed so the entire load is directed down, rather than out.

The Plan is to span wall to wall. doing the same with the ledger and cripple studs on both walls..

 

[Krodad]

What will that span be, and what is the spacing of the framing posts?

 

[holdover]

I always use 6X6 and notch the post to support at least one of the 2X10s which are then bolted not lagged, if I use a second 2x10 it is supported by a 2X6 sistered to the 6X6 and bolted with the first 2X10.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

I have gotten somewhat confused here. Let me tell how I see this and then correct my mistakes.

The op wants to build a loft in an existing finished pole building. He wants to lag bolt a pair of 2x12s to the posts to support this. If I understand this right he wants to slide a 2x12 between the outside siding and the post, and put one opposite on the inside of the post and run a lag screw through the inside 2x12 through the 4x6 and into the outside 2x12. Am I understanding this correctly??

If I am right this would probably be ok for very light loads on the loft. since you have no real access to bolt the 2x12s, I think I would lag screw them as I have described, then run a 2x4 or 2x6 depending on which face is showing on the 4x6s from tight under the 2x12 down to at least the finished concrete floor but better down to the footer, so that whatever is setting on the loft is actually resting on the floor or footer. I would also cut 2x4s to fit between the purlins on the outside of the 4x6s so there is a continuous solid run to the floor or footer on the outside too.

I am no engineer just a hack carpenter who likes to overbuild where possible.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I always use 6X6 and notch the post to support at least one of the 2X10s which are then bolted not lagged, if I use a second 2x10 it is supported by a 2X6 sistered to the 6X6 and bolted with the first 2X10.

This is by FAR the best way to do it !

 

[mx500]

FYI. An inspector just told me last week that carriage bolts won't pass code on a new deck.. Too many heads popping off from china made bolts.

 

[cj7jeep81]

FYI. An inspector just told me last week that carriage bolts won't pass code on a new deck.. Too many heads popping off from china made bolts.

Did he tell you what you are supposed to use? I'm planning on adding a similar loft when I build my building in the spring.

I had planned on using structural screws like these, as I've used them in the past, and been really happy with them.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003VCGDPK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[DangerousDan55]

Im currently doing the same but in a red iron building. Im using several options. The metal beams, 2x6's & 2x12's.
A word on the structual screws that cj7jeep81 shows. I believe that they are great for interior use. Be thoughtfull on outdoor use.
I am working on 8 windmills for a farm. There are two derricks that were in use & moved to his property. They layed for three years, now I'm inspecting the derricks & found they are built with these structual screws. Found several screws rusted about 1 inch from the head & a few broke at that spot. This was a wood derricl. Also, the top of the derrick had a angle iron top to hold the fan. The angle iron was screwed to the wood derrick with the same structual screws. When checking them for tightness a couple broke off. Again rusted about 1 inch from the head. More checking, found 95% broke off & all rusted the same. Replaced all screws with lags, & building 6 new derricks useing bolting.

 

[gungatim]

Just curious--for those of you who are against the lag bolts, how is that any different from just nailing on the 2x12? All of the polebarns I have seen in my area-mine included-have the 2x12's just nailed to the 6x6 uprights for the rafters to set on. I know they make special high-shear strength nails for joist hangers, is that the reason? do lag bolts have less shear strength than nails? I'm not trying to start an argument just curious that's all...

But, if you want to use through bolts with washers, it really is easy and quick to take a cordless drill and nut driver bit to un-screw the siding screws and take each panel off one at a time where your holes will be. They will go right back on and use the same screw holes.

 

[SI86]

I have gotten somewhat confused here. Let me tell how I see this and then correct my mistakes.

The op wants to build a loft in an existing finished pole building. He wants to lag bolt a pair of 2x12s to the posts to support this. If I understand this right he wants to slide a 2x12 between the outside siding and the post, and put one opposite on the inside of the post and run a lag screw through the inside 2x12 through the 4x6 and into the outside 2x12. Am I understanding this correctly??

If I am right this would probably be ok for very light loads on the loft. since you have no real access to bolt the 2x12s, I think I would lag screw them as I have described, then run a 2x4 or 2x6 depending on which face is showing on the 4x6s from tight under the 2x12 down to at least the finished concrete floor but better down to the footer, so that whatever is setting on the loft is actually resting on the floor or footer. I would also cut 2x4s to fit between the purlins on the outside of the 4x6s so there is a continuous solid run to the floor or footer on the outside too.

I am no engineer just a hack carpenter who likes to overbuild where possible.

Yes it is existing but I was only going to put the 2x10's on the interior.. I have 1 1/2 of room between my post and siding.. just enough to put a nut on the back side of a bolt.

 

[SI86]

FYI. An inspector just told me last week that carriage bolts won't pass code on a new deck.. Too many heads popping off from china made bolts.

What are you supposed to use then?

 

[kenfath]

"What are you supposed to use then?"

I'd suggest LedgerLOK fasteners. They are an engineered structural screw specifically designed to attach ledger boards. I've used them and have been pleased with them.

http://www.fastenmaster.com/details/product/ledgerlok-ledger-board-fastener.html

 

[little jimmy]

So how far are you spanning with you loft and what sort of weight do you expect to put up there?
I would not use a carriage bolt, if you only have a inch and a half it will **** trying to tighten them up. Use a regular bolt with big washers. Maybe one bolt per post and then screws along with it. Just a thought.

 

[Kev442]

FYI. An inspector just told me last week that carriage bolts won't pass code on a new deck.. Too many heads popping off from china made bolts.

Use Hex head bolts with a large washer. They come in ratings besides "china finest, you bet!"

 

[larry_g]

One thing that I have not seen in any of the posts is, Is the pole your lagging into a treated pole and are you considering what materials are compatible with the treatment of the pole. Some of the treatments are quite corrosive to fasteners and the fastener material has to be considered.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[SI86]

One thing that I have not seen in any of the posts is, Is the pole your lagging into a treated pole and are you considering what materials are compatible with the treatment of the pole. Some of the treatments are quite corrosive to fasteners and the fastener material has to be considered.

lg
no neat sig line

I never thought of that. Yes they are treated. and I am spanning 30ft.

 

[Krodad]

The hardware corrosion issue is a great point...however, I have never liked the idea of putting holes of any kind in the structural components of a pole building. It's bad practice in general and the building designers will tell you it's a no-no. More so in engineered trusses, but supports also have restrictions put on by the big name building brands. Not a problem though screwing/nailing things to them, as long as you're supporting the load with a sister stud.

That sounds weird..."sister stud"

 

[theoldwizard1]

A ledger board attached to a rim joist of a house is a totally different application. The load is spread over a long length with multiple connections between the ledger and the rim joist.

The load of the 2x10/12 MUST be transferred directly to the foundation. The only way to properly do this is by placing a 2 by that connect to the foundation directly under the cross piece !



Go ahead. Build it your way. It will hold a light load. It will even hold a heavy load ... for awhile ! I hope your insurance covers injuries from un-inspected/approved structural DIY jobs !

 

[Krodad]

Isn't that what has been said all along?

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