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Where to start... and plan/diagram

daveroy

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Sep 4, 2009
Messages
735
Location
Omaha NE
I am not new to the forum, but I have a new (to me) shop.

We bought a new house and it has a 28'X40' detached shop with a 100 amp panel in it. The wiring that is in place now is not what/where/how I want it..
most of the shop is bare studs, but about 1/3 is insulated(?) and poorly hung drywall. The outlets that are there are (I believe) all on one circuit, and the boxes are too deep in the wall for cover plates... So my current plan is to demo it and start over.

Not the least of my problems is I have a WHOLE LOT of stuff in there, so working on the whole shop at once is going to be problematic. But that's a different thread.

So My first question is what should I use for diagramming / planning so that I can upload it here to get feedback?
 
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soapii

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Nov 29, 2011
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342
Location
SE Michigan
Lots of ways to tackle this and the way you are starting is the same way I did. It would help to know how you plan to finish the interior, insulate/drywall or other? I moved most stuff out and took measurements on paper. From there I planned where I wanted permanent items (work bench, lift, compressor etc) so I knew where to run wires and other items that were going to be hidden behind drywall.

There are no end to your options.

--Joe
 

87jeepwrangler

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May 23, 2013
Messages
195
anything from phone pictures of your napkin, to microsoft paint, to excel, to sketchup(3d drawing), and beyond. how computer savvy are you? i personally prefer sketchup for almost all types of drawings i make, but it completely depends on how much time you have to draw, and how technological you are. if you want to get into 3d modeling, it's hard to beat sketchup(free and some of the simplest 3d drawing software available).
 

larry_g

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Apr 28, 2007
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16,932
Location
oregon
A basic floor layout program, http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner . You might also clue us into what your equipment set looks like, welders, lathes, woodworking, or something else. After listing the equipment tell us what you plan to do with it. Then hopefully we can give good advise to you.

lg
no neat sig line
 
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daveroy

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Sep 4, 2009
Messages
735
Location
Omaha NE
Grizley shop planner looks lake it should fit the bill. I am pretty computer savy, and pretty good with sketch up. But don't want to get carried away with 3d for this.

I'm thinking metal siding for ceiling, galvanized bottom 4ft. Of wall and drywallor osb from there up. Thinking putting couples outlets every 3rd or 4th stud.

I also have to figure out the lighting.. Been reading on here but thinking just running three rows from front to back on three switches.. Then figure out task lighting when I get placement figured out...

I'll have to work up an equip list and basic floor layout to get your guys input on layout...
 
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daveroy

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Omaha NE
I'll reply again when I'm not on the wife's ipad... I hate typing on this thing..
 

larry_g

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oregon
I also have to figure out the lighting.. Been reading on here but thinking just running three rows from front to back on three switches.. Then figure out task lighting when I get placement figured out...

..

What I did was install switched receptacles in the ceiling for lights. It allows me to move lamp fixtures around to light specific machines in the shop. I think you can see some in the shop build below.

lg
no neat sig line
 
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daveroy

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Sep 4, 2009
Messages
735
Location
Omaha NE
There is way to much clutter and junk in there!, but we just moved in and I have had no time to arrange or sort through anything shop related yet, had to get the house settled first (and Christmas lights up, etc,etc)

Some 'equipment' off the top of my head...
JD L120 tractor
Gravely 48" Zero turn mower
dump trailer for tractor
35Gal trailer sprayer
tiller
Big a$$ pile of scrap wood all stacked against wall
tire machine (hoffman)
balancer (hoffman)
Direct Lift table lift (I work on bikes... once I get the shop setup again!)
6'bench for mini lathe, mini mill and smaller DP
larger DP
2nd larger DP
scroll saw on stand
HArbor Freight 42" Bottom box with Top Box
12" X 36" metal lathe (220v)
30 Gal compressor (220v)
3 benches across back wall...
One mobile island bench on casters
A GL1800 goldwing
A 1973 125 (not running)
A go cart
a Fridge (of course!)
A Smallish desk
A treadmill
An elliptical trainer
A HUGE roll of insulation (6' long by 5' diameter...long story, but its gonna insulate the rafters when I get it cut up!)
Snow blower
push mower

About 7000 other smaller things that just clutter the place up...
.. ya know I think this might be easier If I go out there tomrrow with my phone and take pics...

I think the first thing I need is a rummage sale!
 

2ManyProjects

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Jul 18, 2013
Messages
757
I am not new to the forum, but I have a new (to me) shop.

We bought a new house and it has a 28'X40' detached shop with a 100 amp panel in it.

First and foremost: Congratulations. :thumbup:

The wiring that is in place now is not what/where/how I want it..
most of the shop is bare studs, but about 1/3 is insulated(?) and poorly hung drywall. The outlets that are there are (I believe) all on one circuit, and the boxes are too deep in the wall for cover plates... So my current plan is to demo it and start over.

Probably a wise decision. Given that only ~1/3 of the space is "finished" (and poorly, at that), you're not "going backwards" all that much; and a complete re-do will give you the best opportunity to do things RIGHT.

Not the least of my problems is I have a WHOLE LOT of stuff in there, so working on the whole shop at once is going to be problematic. But that's a different thread.

BTDTGTTS. Don't even get me started.

So My first question is what should I use for diagramming / planning so that I can upload it here to get feedback?

For simple diagrams and such, the "Draw" component of LibreOffice:

http://www.libreoffice.org/features/draw/

For more ambitious drawings (up to and including construction-quality "blueprints"), LibreCAD:

http://librecad.org/cms/home.html

Both completely open source, hence free (both in the sense of "freedom", and in the sense of "free beer").

Grizley shop planner looks lake it should fit the bill.

You really don't want to be dependent on a third-party web site for this sort of thing, particularly not one which is REQUIRES Javascript, cookies AND Flash to operate.

I'm thinking metal siding for ceiling, galvanized bottom 4ft. Of wall and drywallor osb from there up.

No matter what you do, even galvanized sheet metal WILL eventually rust and look ugly; and it's near-impossible to spot-repair. So unless you're going to be doing a fair amount of welding (and hence fear hot splatter marking up "soft" surfaces), I'd probably use either drywall or plywood. The former will give a more "finished" appearance; the latter will be more durable, especially on the lower wall sections where potential impacts must be considered. Both OSB and MDF are compromises between these two extremes. Regardless of the material, you should count on painting ALL of it, if for no other reason than to provide better reflectivity for your lighting.

Thinking putting couples outlets every 3rd or 4th stud.

For general-purpose 120V outlets, I usually recommend one double-gang box every 6-8 feet, with each of the two duplexes in that box fed from a different breaker than the other one. In small shops, two 20A circuits will normally handle the whole thing; in larger shops, split it up further as you see fit. Note that at least in anything which might be considered a "residential garage", NEC now requires that ALL 120V outlets be GFCI protected.

I also have to figure out the lighting.. Been reading on here but thinking just running three rows from front to back on three switches.. Then figure out task lighting when I get placement figured out...

You will near-certainly want to be much more sophisticated about things than this. But that's really a separate discussion; and yes, you need to get the SHOP layout more-or-less figured out before you can really nail down the lighting layout.

 
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daveroy

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Sep 4, 2009
Messages
735
Location
Omaha NE
From the movie Jaws . . .
. . . . . .
. . . . . . . . You're gonna need a bigger Boat !!

No the boats parked outside the shop, and will get a pole-barn type roof over it next summer...
If by boat you mean wallet? Yeah, already seeing that issue!
 

CodyY

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Jun 9, 2012
Messages
103
Location
Fort Worth, TX
Have a shipping container or storage cube dropped for temp relocation of junk.

Of course you'll get spoiled to the extra space...

+1 on quads every 8' makes it easier to notch wall material during install.
 

Jeff Ivers

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Apr 9, 2010
Messages
2,618
Location
Oklahoma
To your original question, I did all my planning with graph paper and cardboard cutouts. Scans of drawings can easily be posted as .jpg pics. With regards to too much stuff in there to work, if your budet permits, you might consider buying a pre-built storage shed and moving all the lawn stuff to it.
 

CNGsaves

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Sep 26, 2012
Messages
13,233
Location
KS and OK
No the boats parked outside the shop, and will get a pole-barn type roof over it next summer...
If by boat you mean wallet? Yeah, already seeing that issue!

LOL. . . ha, ha !! No, I meant you have the age-old problem . . .
. . . . that the garage is NEVER big enough !!! :lol:

+1 recommendation to use rough sketch-to-scale on graph paper and cutouts of equipment, vehicles, toys, etc and just "play Barbie house" and re-arrange everything in various spots until you like the layout. After that you'll be ready for Sketch-up software and do the final version that will include electrical, airline system, lighting, low voltage items (internet/phone/TV/security/etc).

Since you've got the big boat that needs it's own covered spot, I'd just design lean-to which is on SIDE of your pole barn you plan on building. Looks and sounds like you need LOTS of space !! :D
 

sberry

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Jun 18, 2005
Messages
35,747
Location
Brethren, Michigan
2 many did a good job. There is no perfect thing especially if this is collect as we go. I ran some under floor, some behind wall and some surface but have seen a couple garages similar to your size done different ways. My neighbor did it with a couple circuits, I think he might have went back for some tailoring but he has about 40 machines on 2 generals and a light circuit. He had a brainstorm about putting master switches on, its ok. I have made mistakes doing this because I over think it too, especially early on. 2 circuits on a wall are ok but it doesn't need to be so sophisticated and you never run all this at once and it all isn't fully loaded.
 

sberry

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Jun 18, 2005
Messages
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Location
Brethren, Michigan
A lot of wire and panel space gets wasted and never used. My shop is big, a different matter, 2 available circuits on a wall isn't a bad idea but simple is ok, doesn't need alternating 4x4 every 2 ft to be covered by cabinets. You don't use as much as you think you will and the place is really small enough to be able to cord to another circuit if really needed. Lights on a couple circuits and maybe a couple switch loops ran up, I would put a jbox in the attic and spider web lights to outlets with switch loop at door and what ever other convenience location.

If it works park the comp and a welding circuit close to the panel. My neighbor screwed a painted plywood above and below the panel and a couple stud bays sideways. Ideally you can get back in for an addition. Over benches a circuit for chargers and under a circuit for power tools. It leaves 3 generals, one bench one each wall
 

bczygan

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Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
The right answer to your original question, is whatever method is easiest for you.

You don't want the added burden of learning new software on top of figuring out your functions and how to accommodate them.

A paper and pencil, graph paper and scaled printed out cutouts of machinery and furnishings will do fine. Then photo and upload.

Unless you already know a software program...
 
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