Let's get right to it: Do I need brushless tools for homeowner use?

[Banjorear]

OK, I've started a few threads about cordless tools, asked some questions and read all I can. I'm starting to feel overwhelmed by all of the choices and options.

I'm a home owner, but do all of my own work on my house. I've been using my 14.4V DeWalt for approx. 12+ years now. Great tool and it has served me well.

Batteries aren't holding a charge and chuck will loosen up when using it. Time to replace it.

I like to buy good tools and was leanign heavily toward the M18 Fuel. Seems like you can pick up the older, brush-type M18's really cheaply compared to the M18 Fuel.

Bottom line: For using it on occassion and, at times, doing heavy work such doing a deck every few years, do I need these M18 Fuel tools? I would be saving approx. $160 on the same 1/2 drill 1/4" impact driller kit.

If I get a the ion battery version (I think they offer that), can I still buy a bare tool like a 1/2 impact and use these batteries?

I'm starting to obsess of this purchase and really just want to be done with it.

 

[Tripp2012]

Brushless will offer a little more power and better run times per charge over standard brushed motors those are the main advantages. Aside from that they will wear a little longer due to the fact they don't have brushes to wear out over time. But In the real world home owner use the tool will outlast the batteries regardless. Just stepping up to a new lithium batteries you will be blown away with the power to weight compared to the older NiCad’s.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

I faced the same quandry and settled on the straight M18. I got the combo set on Ebay for $184 shipped, plus another $17.88 for the plastic case. The FUEL set was $400, and just not worth it for me. I'm building a house, so they see a great deal of use, but it still wasn't worth it for my money. YMMV.

 

[Banjorear]

I faced the same quandry and settled on the straight M18. I got the combo set on Ebay for $184 shipped, plus another $17.88 for the plastic case. The FUEL set was $400, and just not worth it for me. I'm building a house, so they see a great deal of use, but it still wasn't worth it for my money. YMMV.

Cool. Thank you. I'm kind of leaning this way. The Depot has the same kit for $199.00. I would like a case and not a bag.

Did you find the case on Ebay or did you buy that elsewhere?

 

[77thor]

I see that DeWalt just came out with a line of brushless cordless tools, too.

 

[jeff g]

Hi

Just stepping up to a new lithium batteries you will be blown away with the power to weight compared to the older NiCad’s.

go for the lithium batteries +1

 

[firebox40dash5]

There's absolutely no NEED for brushless tools, but if you're using them enough and can justify them, they are freaking sweet. That's probably not you, though. About the only thing I can say is that you could probably get away with owning fewer batteries since they'll run longer between charges, but that's not likely to really pay off. Might work to convince the household accountant though.

If you want to have cool stuff and save a few bucks, consider M12 Fuel though. I'm guessing Milwaukee will probably run another free M12 battery promo sometime in the next few months. The Fuel drill comes with 1 each 2.0ah and 4.0ah battery, and when I bought mine during the promo the free battery was a 2nd 4.0ah. If you caught that, it would be $300 for the hammer drill and impact driver, with those 3 batteries... or $40 more would get you both kits with a total of 4 2.0ah and 2 4.0ah batteries, and 2 chargers. I don't do a whole bunch of woodworking and drilling metal is easier, but I've got nothing but good things to say about either of my M12 Fuel tools.

 

[Banjorear]

There's absolutely no NEED for brushless tools, but if you're using them enough and can justify them, they are freaking sweet. That's probably not you, though. About the only thing I can say is that you could probably get away with owning fewer batteries since they'll run longer between charges, but that's not likely to really pay off. Might work to convince the household accountant though.

If you want to have cool stuff and save a few bucks, consider M12 Fuel though. I'm guessing Milwaukee will probably run another free M12 battery promo sometime in the next few months. The Fuel drill comes with 1 each 2.0ah and 4.0ah battery, and when I bought mine during the promo the free battery was a 2nd 4.0ah. If you caught that, it would be $300 for the hammer drill and impact driver, with those 3 batteries... or $40 more would get you both kits with a total of 4 2.0ah and 2 4.0ah batteries, and 2 chargers. I don't do a whole bunch of woodworking and drilling metal is easier, but I've got nothing but good things to say about either of my M12 Fuel tools.

OK, cool. Thanks. As I mentioned, I've hadn't had to buy a tool recently. Will the M12 be heavy duty enough to use when things get tough like drilling through metal and laying decking, etc.?

 

[theoldwizard1]

For a homeowner/shade tree mechanic I would NOT pay extra for them

Stick with DeWalt of Milwaukee. 18V

When drilling, good sharp bits are the most important thing. If you are going to be laying deck, buy an impact driver. Also buy "impact ready" screwdriver bits. You will be very happy that you did.

 

[Banjorear]

For a homeowner/shade tree mechanic I would NOT pay extra for them

Stick with DeWalt of Milwaukee. 18V

When drilling, good sharp bits are the most important thing. If you are going to be laying deck, buy an impact driver. Also buy "impact ready" screwdriver bits. You will be very happy that you did.

Curious why 18V v. Li-ion batteries. Doesn't the 18V still use the older batteries?

I was very happy with my DeWalt 14.4V and got every cent back from that purchase.


http://www.cpomilwaukee.com/factory...am=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=160&zmap=milr2691-82

I found this older m18 reconditioned set for under $200 with free shipping. Seems like what I've been looking for.

 

[cburnscrx]

Curious why 18V v. Li-ion batteries. Doesn't the 18V still use the older batteries?

I was very happy with my DeWalt 14.4V and got every cent back from that purchase.

You can get the 18v with Li-ion batteries, or at least replacement 18v lith-ion.

Personally if it were me, I'd get new batteries and a chuck and call it a day.

 

[Banjorear]

You can get the 18v with Li-ion batteries, or at least replacement 18v lith-ion.

Personally if it were me, I'd get new batteries and a chuck and call it a day.

It's a $40 difference. OK, here is my big question: Can I use these 18V Li-ion batteries with a M18 Fuel tool?

It looks like I can get a M18 NON-FUEL kit for $199.00 new and then a bare M18 FUEL 1/2" impact for another $169.

This still puts me under the $400 mark and I'd be happy as a clam with this set-up.


EDIT: Called Milwaukee C.S. and they said that the 18V Li-Ion battery is the same for both Fuel and Non-Fuel tools. This maybe the ticket.

Found bare storage cases for the impact on Ebay for $17 so both sets of tools would have cases which is important to me.

 

[firebox40dash5]

OK, cool. Thanks. As I mentioned, I've hadn't had to buy a tool recently. Will the M12 be heavy duty enough to use when things get tough like drilling through metal and laying decking, etc.?

I dunno if I'd trust the normal M12 stuff. Never used it for drills or drivers. I know I can heat the **** out of my M12 Hackzall using it hard, and wear some batteries down quick.

I honestly never imagined I'd own 12 volt tools, but money was a little tight and I needed a new drill, so I figured I'd give the M12 Fuel line a try, assisted by said free battery promo deal. I've broken bits with the drill in metal, and used it with any bit it'll fit. I'm not usually using big spades or Forstners like a woodworker though, so YMMV. I will say it's got all the torque I need, and as an added bonus it's got a 1/2" chuck, unlike most 12v drills. The impact is more than enough for anything you need a hex impact driver for... it's got as much torque as most regular 18v hex impacts.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Cool. Thank you. I'm kind of leaning this way. The Depot has the same kit for $199.00. I would like a case and not a bag.

Did you find the case on Ebay or did you buy that elsewhere?

I got the correct case on ebay. I did a search for the combo number and it came up. As I said, $17.88 shipped.

 

[trogo]

I am also just a homeowner but prefer the fuel line. In addition to having a better tool, you also get better batteries that are compatible with all of the newer tools. I know that the cheaper M18 drill/impact set with 1.5 amp-hr batteries are not compatible with the circular saw. The M18 circular saws (2630 and 2730) are really nice.

I would spring for one of the M18 Fuel promotions that comes with the two XC4.0 batteries and a free tool. You can then buy new fuel bare tools on Ebay at great prices once you have the batteries. Milwaukee does not have a registration system for warranty. If you have no original receipt, then they use the serial number to date the manufacture date.

 

[Alexbn921]

+1,000,000 on LiPo batteries. They are a huge increase in power and run time. They also hold a charge for months instead of days. For home use a brushless motor will never die. You would be able to give the tool to your grand kids if they could find a battery. Brushless is overkill for home use, but better in every way. I've been running a brushless RC car for 6+ after going through brushed motors every couple months. 4-6 times the power and loooonnnnggg run times. More voltage = less amps = longer life at same load.

 

[reptilezs]

for me i went with the fuel model for my 3/8 impact wrench. for the drill and 1/4 hex impact i went standard brushed.

 

[sberry]

This is a good thread, lots of well thought out stuff and no nonsense. I havnt had a chance to use newer stuff and just coughed up 900 for new batteries for my 28. They are heavy but they do stuff we never had considered when we first seen a battery drill and have used a corded drill in wood with a couple huge bits about twice in the last 10 years.

All the steel we drill battery. If I had a steady diet of overhead installer might look for something lighter. but I agree a home brew deal could make it on less than an installer level tool. The comment about "sweet" applies here. You need any extra poop you can get for sawing though.

At first I thought maybe I went overboard a battery or 2 but my old are going down fast and had intended on using them on lights but I find myself using the new ones.

 

[madison069]

Being a home owner and work at the church doing remodels, I feel the dewalt 20v max drill and impact have been good to me. For $199 for both impact and drill with 2 batteries plus charger I feel that's a good deal for me.

 

[bggrnchvy]

I had an M18 1/2" drill for about a year, used it all the time. Gearbox broke turning my manual camper jacks a couple months ago (which it had done many times before). Opted to replace it with a M18 Fuel while I warrantied the M18.

The M18 is going to sit in a box when it gets back, the Fuel is just so much handier. Great torque at all RPM, alot more of it and the run times are great. Totally worth it.

Thinking about upgrading my driver to a brushless as well now.

 

[fivespdcat]

I have a 18v li ion bosch drill and 12v impact. As for what you need, no I don't think you need a brushless. In my opinion, the impact is the game changer. You rarely need the power in a drill at home and if you do, you're better off going big, as in a cordless. If I started it all over today I would just run a small 12v impact and a corded driver. If the 12v drill was cheap I would pick that up to, but with the way an impact drives a 4" screw you don't need a ton of power and the weight savings is awesome.

To sum it up, I would go with the 12v impact set from Bosch (personal preference) for like $125 and then grab a cheap corded drill/impact driver and walk out around or under $200. Now if you want other cordless tools, it's a whole different story.

 

[theoldwizard1]

For the homeowner/DIYer, Li-ion batteries are not worth the additional cost.

I would try to get MiMH over NiCaD. NiCaD self discharge too fast.

 

[fivespdcat]

For the homeowner/DIYer, Li-ion batteries are not worth the additional cost.

I would try to get MiMH over NiCaD. NiCaD self discharge too fast.

I would say li ion are more important for a homeowner. The batteries don't discharge over time and are therefor "ready to go" whenever you need them. I hated my nimh batteries because every time I tried to use them they were dead.

 

[monomach]

We all got by for years and years and years with brushes in our electric motors, even pros.

So, no; you don't NEED brushless. Not one bit. You probably don't even need cordless tools.

 

[RivennHewn]

If you don't know,.......Stick to computers.

 

[Banjorear]

If you don't know,.......Stick to computers.

Huh? Not sure what you mean. Are you implying that I'm a tech guy or something?

The question was do I need to buck up for brushless for the application that I'd be using them for.

This is what I do for fun. Happy?


Jeez.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ Banjo . . . what all login names are yours ?? Above is your first post in this thread ??

 

[Banjorear]

^ ^ Banjo . . . what all login names are yours ?? Above is your first post in this thread ??

Just Banjorear. I started the tread.

 

[CNGsaves]

Just Banjorear. I started the tread.

My bad . . . I was thinking whole thread was only 1 page. Didn't quite make sense why the Riven was complaining about the comment.

Interesting thread overall . . . . . carry on !!

 

[theoldwizard1]

We all got by for years and years and years with brushes in our electric motors, even pros.

So, no; you don't NEED brushless. Not one bit. You probably don't even need cordless tools.

THANK YOU !!!!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Curious why 18V v. Li-ion batteries. Doesn't the 18V still use the older batteries?

I was very happy with my DeWalt 14.4V and got every cent back from that purchase.

Let's take DeWalt as an example (they probably have sold the most cordless tools than anyone else). Between DeWalt and the aftermarket, all battery type, NiCad, NiMh and Li-ion are available. That list is also lowest to highest price.

Most battery packs, reagrdless of voltage, use the same size cells, referred to as Sub-C in the industry (roughly the same diameter as a C alkaline but shorter). For a given battery type ("chemistry") the power (milliamp-hours, mAH) stored in a cell is the same. The quickest way to get more power is to add more cells, which results in more voltage. Most people want more power (torque) out of their tools.

The other reason I said 18v, is that is the most popular size, at least in DeWalt. Replacement batteries are more readily available and are typically less expensive.

 

[BK13]

Banjo:

[sarcasm] since you're not a pro, you are not worthy of brushless tools. In fact, you should be using a hand brace instead of any sort of power drill.[/sarcasm]

I have a few of the M12 Fuel tools and really like them. Do I need the brushless? No, but I like them. I'm sure at some point, I'll be helping my buddy building a deck or two, or an extensive fence, so I imagine the extra battery life will be handy.

 

[Banjorear]

Banjo:

[sarcasm] since you're not a pro, you are not worthy of brushless tools. In fact, you should be using a hand brace instead of any sort of power drill.[/sarcasm]

I have a few of the M12 Fuel tools and really like them. Do I need the brushless? No, but I like them. I'm sure at some point, I'll be helping my buddy building a deck or two, or an extensive fence, so I imagine the extra battery life will be handy.

BK13, cool. Thanks for replying. I like the size of the M12 stuff. Have you found/are you happy with the power/torque of the M12 stuff for the types of jobs?

 

[Keep]

If you don't know,.......Stick to computers.

This is the type of ****** comment that are driving folks away from this place. Real fricken helpful.

As for the brushless stuff, I cannot comment as I have never used the stuff.

I have the Bosch 18v Lithium set, very happy and they do everything I throw at them. I store them in a cold garage and they are ready to use whenever I need them.

I also have the Porter Cable 12v lithium combo kit ($98 at Lowes), I find myself grabbing these more and more for everyday stuff, they will drive a 4 inch desk screw with little effort and they are smaller to get into those tight spots.

Whatever direction you go, once you get a small set with a couple batteries, start picking up tools without batteries, much cheaper.

Oh yeah, sweet build you have going there!

 

[BK13]

BK13, cool. Thanks for replying. I like the size of the M12 stuff. Have you found/are you happy with the power/torque of the M12 stuff for the types of jobs?

Oh, most definitely. The impact wrench will take Lug nuts off my Jeep without problem, and the impact driver has done everything I've asked of it, easily. I doubt the hammer drill will consistently drive 1" Speedbor bits, but thats a pretty unreasonable expectation... My (non-Fuel) M18 driver drill chokes on them.

 

[OccupantRJ]

No, you do not need brushless. I would go with the tried and true 18v DeWalt, as there are a LOT of tools available for the system, and getting cheaper by the minute. I have almost everything DeWalt makes in this line, and I use the hell out of them on a daily basis, both at work and home. Bare tools are readily and cheaply available on Amazon. For example, the impact driver is $64.

If I was just starting out, I might go with the 20v Li-on, due to overall tool weight, but you will get a lot for the money you have to put out on the 18v. I like a tool to warn me when battery charge is going down, not just jolt to a halt after I just climbed a ladder. That is the one thing I don't like about my Bosch Li-on multitool. Quits right after I climbed inside a kitchen base cabinet to make a cut.

 

[Banjorear]

This is the type of ****** comment that are driving folks away from this place. Real fricken helpful.

As for the brushless stuff, I cannot comment as I have never used the stuff.

I have the Bosch 18v Lithium set, very happy and they do everything I throw at them. I store them in a cold garage and they are ready to use whenever I need them.

I also have the Porter Cable 12v lithium combo kit ($98 at Lowes), I find myself grabbing these more and more for everyday stuff, they will drive a 4 inch desk screw with little effort and they are smaller to get into those tight spots.

Whatever direction you go, once you get a small set with a couple batteries, start picking up tools without batteries, much cheaper.

Oh yeah, sweet build you have going there!

Keep: Thanks. Funny, I'm now really torn for I was looking at the Bosch stuff. I like the price v. Milwaukee and their impact is closer to torque specs than the DeWalt.

I'm even more torn than ever on which one to go for. I went to the HD last night and was hoping to use a 25% Harbor Freight coupon on a M18 Fuel set. No go. For the best I guess.

The search continues.

 

[bcradio]

I'm curious if we will be seeing the same longevity out of these new lithium as we did the old NiCad batteries. OP said he got ~14(?) years of use out of his old ones. I'd be HIGHLY skeptical if the new ones lasted this long.

 

[bcradio]

I'm curious if we will be seeing the same longevity out of these new lithium as we did the old NiCad batteries. OP said he got ~14(?) years of use out of his old ones. I'd be HIGHLY skeptical if the new ones lasted this long.

Edit: and for me as a homeowner, that would be a top priority since they won't be used daily

 

[diggerrick]

I've had a few NiCad's for homeowner use over the years. I purchased an 18v NiCad Craftsman drill/driver as recently as last year, and built my pool deck with it over the summer (I bought two extra batteries). I upgraded to my first LiIon Milwaukee combo kit a couple months ago, and it was way worth the money. My tools might sit for months between uses, and then get used daily for several weeks. This never worked well with NiCad's (No problem with the Craftsman, but it's only been a year). I find myself using the 1/4" hex impact driver to work on the cars as much as possible and may add a 3/8" impact. Way less cumbersome than air. I can see why the pro's use cordless so much, but I don't plan on getting rid of my air tools.

As far as brushless, the only tool I'm planning to splurge on is the M18 Fuel 1/2" impact gun. It has like twice the nut busting torque of the standard M18 1/2" impact. Other than that for my use, brushed is fine for me. As has been stated before, for homeowner use the tool will outlive the batteries.