MTW
Well-known member
Strouty, I haven't had time to check back to the forum till now, but wanted to inquire if you have had a chance to fully test your system for effectiveness?
Have you used it with heavy demand while the atmospheric moisture was high and did it work as well as you expected?
If so, where is the moisture coming out of the system at % wise, beginning middle, end?
If not, tell the others to unsubscribe, because I led you down the path....
Your piping looks very good, and I'm sure that it will pay you many dividends in the future.
A few pointers about leaks, and my piping methods.
Threaded pipe fittings are designed to seal by a metal to metal contact of properly formed threads, without any pipe dope or Teflon tape, just a thin film of oil to lubricate the threads during the torque of assembly. Whenever I am piping anything, my main focus is inspecting and cleaning every fitting meticulously before using it, be it new or used. To clean male threads I use a soft wire wheel mounted on an old 1/2HP motor. To clean female threads I use wire brushes sold for cleaning copper fittings in various sizes. Female fittings are blown out before assembly to remove anything loosened by the brush cleaning. Every fresh cut male thread is wiped of excessive cutting oil and then cleaned of small chips with a hand wire brush. Female fittings that are rusty and crusty inside but must be reused, in a pinch, are best cleaned out first with a pipe tap. Then give it the brush cleaning followed with air.
Fittings and cut threads are production work and there will be defects, however a close inspection after a through cleaning will weed out most if not all of them. It's 100 times easier to find this out on the ground before assembly that after its installed in the worst of places and fully pressurized.
I use a lot of scavenged pipe and fittings, and rarely have and leaks in my systems. Even new pipe comes with dinged up male threads from handling, threads full of crud from the oil left from the factory threading operation. I run my threader back over any thread that exhibits slightly damaged threads or dirty (old pipe dope).
For the pipe dope, my favorite is the white Teflon impregnated type (PTFE) it works on all types of materials and is non hardening. There are many brands and they all work well. Teflon tape is something I normally reserve for precision cut threads on brass fittings. Tape doesn't seem to work well on poorly made threads, or wrought fittings such as copper adapters. At work I see some fitters that use both for insurance, tape then dope, but for me I see that as a waste. It seems to me, that's compensation for lack of preparation of the threads before use, in a time saving effort. Normally these are the guys that have to come back to fix leaks the following day. When doping I fully cover the male thread only, then assemble. After tightening I wipe the excess of with my finger and apply it to my next fitting. Then I use a rag to clean any remaining traces of dope, so it doesn't get all over me and my tools while installing.
As to the tightening torque I strive to make it very snug, but not as tight as it will go. I always want to be able to adjust it once I put it in it's finished location and it needs a little tweak to be just right. On the other hand I don't want to have to disassemble a section to tighten a leak either. Future modifications are much easier if you don't have to break your shoulder before the fitting breaks loose. Overtightened fittings will gall the threads making them unsealable and unusable. I learned this while scavenging from behind one particular contractor, they are very big guys. Every female fitting was galled and scrap, and every male also needed to be cut off and re-threaded. These guys had more leaks than most.
I'm not sure if I should share this little trick with some out there, with little common sense, but this is for Strouty, use it at your own risk.
Bending the pipe can save a ton of fittings, and make smaller offsets and angles than available with standard fittings. Standard SCH 40 black pipe is very stiff and designed not to be bent, and to be used only in straight sections. A piping unapproved for pressure use but designed to be bent is SCH 40 GRC (galvanized rigid conduit) this pipe is the same thickness and OD as black pipe but it's metal formulation is designed to be malleable (bendable) and its galvanized inside and out. DO NOT confuse this with IMC ( intermediate metal conduit). IMC is much thinner wall and also much stiffer to bend. These materials come from the same electrical wholesalers and look very similar, so make sure it's GRC if your going to try this. By code each piece of pipe should be marked with it's type on it. Bending can be accomplished with standard conduit benders, GRC requires a bender one trade size larger than equivalent size EMT (electrical metallic tubing).
This would be a good solution for bringing drops down from a sloped upper trunk run. It is also good on the drop side taps, where you need a small offset away from the wall, to install a filter regulator in a small space. Using bent pieces means you will need a handheld threader to thread the piece after forming it. In practice you will usually require a union near the bent piece to facilitate installing it. Because of the swing of the bent section hitting other obstructions. I have used this arrangement many times over the years and have yet to have a problem with it. I don't however recommend it to eliminate standard solutions when those will work. Don't bend a 90 when a standard elbow will work. The more it's bent the more stress the metal has on it.
As another option for plumb drops from a sloped trunk is to hang the trunk from the ceiling or trusses. Point the tees down as suggested earlier and then put an ell headed towards the wall, and another ell at the wall. With these two ell's, you can adjust easily for the slope of the trunk.
As to the flexible connection to the compressor I use the metal hose variety called a flexible metal hose or sometimes referred to as a flexible coupling. An example can be seen here: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HOSE-MASTER-Flexible-Metal-Hose-6MP35?Pid=search these can be found at industrial plumbing and refrigeration supply houses. These can handle the high temperature, pressure and severe vibration from larger compressors. They don't bend well in shorter lengths, and are best used in a more or less straight section. This however is overkill for a small home compressor that is seldom used.
To the detractors of my methods, I clearly stated that my methods are unconventional, but they are tried and true and work well for my customers. If you like the conventional wisdom, use the picture example provided at the beginning of this thread (post#2).
To the admirer's thanks for all of the kind words, much appreciated. I love sharing knowledge with like minded folks that don't mind thinking out of the box, when I can find the time. I normally share with folks in my circle, but branched out to the folks here because I found the site interesting and informative.
Keep this thread going, submit your ideas or criticisms. By the number of views already this is an interesting topic for lots of folks.
If you like my unconventional line of thinking, check out this thread on shop ventilation ideas.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211121
Have you used it with heavy demand while the atmospheric moisture was high and did it work as well as you expected?
If so, where is the moisture coming out of the system at % wise, beginning middle, end?
If not, tell the others to unsubscribe, because I led you down the path....
Your piping looks very good, and I'm sure that it will pay you many dividends in the future.
A few pointers about leaks, and my piping methods.
Threaded pipe fittings are designed to seal by a metal to metal contact of properly formed threads, without any pipe dope or Teflon tape, just a thin film of oil to lubricate the threads during the torque of assembly. Whenever I am piping anything, my main focus is inspecting and cleaning every fitting meticulously before using it, be it new or used. To clean male threads I use a soft wire wheel mounted on an old 1/2HP motor. To clean female threads I use wire brushes sold for cleaning copper fittings in various sizes. Female fittings are blown out before assembly to remove anything loosened by the brush cleaning. Every fresh cut male thread is wiped of excessive cutting oil and then cleaned of small chips with a hand wire brush. Female fittings that are rusty and crusty inside but must be reused, in a pinch, are best cleaned out first with a pipe tap. Then give it the brush cleaning followed with air.
Fittings and cut threads are production work and there will be defects, however a close inspection after a through cleaning will weed out most if not all of them. It's 100 times easier to find this out on the ground before assembly that after its installed in the worst of places and fully pressurized.
I use a lot of scavenged pipe and fittings, and rarely have and leaks in my systems. Even new pipe comes with dinged up male threads from handling, threads full of crud from the oil left from the factory threading operation. I run my threader back over any thread that exhibits slightly damaged threads or dirty (old pipe dope).
For the pipe dope, my favorite is the white Teflon impregnated type (PTFE) it works on all types of materials and is non hardening. There are many brands and they all work well. Teflon tape is something I normally reserve for precision cut threads on brass fittings. Tape doesn't seem to work well on poorly made threads, or wrought fittings such as copper adapters. At work I see some fitters that use both for insurance, tape then dope, but for me I see that as a waste. It seems to me, that's compensation for lack of preparation of the threads before use, in a time saving effort. Normally these are the guys that have to come back to fix leaks the following day. When doping I fully cover the male thread only, then assemble. After tightening I wipe the excess of with my finger and apply it to my next fitting. Then I use a rag to clean any remaining traces of dope, so it doesn't get all over me and my tools while installing.
As to the tightening torque I strive to make it very snug, but not as tight as it will go. I always want to be able to adjust it once I put it in it's finished location and it needs a little tweak to be just right. On the other hand I don't want to have to disassemble a section to tighten a leak either. Future modifications are much easier if you don't have to break your shoulder before the fitting breaks loose. Overtightened fittings will gall the threads making them unsealable and unusable. I learned this while scavenging from behind one particular contractor, they are very big guys. Every female fitting was galled and scrap, and every male also needed to be cut off and re-threaded. These guys had more leaks than most.
I'm not sure if I should share this little trick with some out there, with little common sense, but this is for Strouty, use it at your own risk.
Bending the pipe can save a ton of fittings, and make smaller offsets and angles than available with standard fittings. Standard SCH 40 black pipe is very stiff and designed not to be bent, and to be used only in straight sections. A piping unapproved for pressure use but designed to be bent is SCH 40 GRC (galvanized rigid conduit) this pipe is the same thickness and OD as black pipe but it's metal formulation is designed to be malleable (bendable) and its galvanized inside and out. DO NOT confuse this with IMC ( intermediate metal conduit). IMC is much thinner wall and also much stiffer to bend. These materials come from the same electrical wholesalers and look very similar, so make sure it's GRC if your going to try this. By code each piece of pipe should be marked with it's type on it. Bending can be accomplished with standard conduit benders, GRC requires a bender one trade size larger than equivalent size EMT (electrical metallic tubing).
This would be a good solution for bringing drops down from a sloped upper trunk run. It is also good on the drop side taps, where you need a small offset away from the wall, to install a filter regulator in a small space. Using bent pieces means you will need a handheld threader to thread the piece after forming it. In practice you will usually require a union near the bent piece to facilitate installing it. Because of the swing of the bent section hitting other obstructions. I have used this arrangement many times over the years and have yet to have a problem with it. I don't however recommend it to eliminate standard solutions when those will work. Don't bend a 90 when a standard elbow will work. The more it's bent the more stress the metal has on it.
As another option for plumb drops from a sloped trunk is to hang the trunk from the ceiling or trusses. Point the tees down as suggested earlier and then put an ell headed towards the wall, and another ell at the wall. With these two ell's, you can adjust easily for the slope of the trunk.
As to the flexible connection to the compressor I use the metal hose variety called a flexible metal hose or sometimes referred to as a flexible coupling. An example can be seen here: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/HOSE-MASTER-Flexible-Metal-Hose-6MP35?Pid=search these can be found at industrial plumbing and refrigeration supply houses. These can handle the high temperature, pressure and severe vibration from larger compressors. They don't bend well in shorter lengths, and are best used in a more or less straight section. This however is overkill for a small home compressor that is seldom used.
To the detractors of my methods, I clearly stated that my methods are unconventional, but they are tried and true and work well for my customers. If you like the conventional wisdom, use the picture example provided at the beginning of this thread (post#2).
To the admirer's thanks for all of the kind words, much appreciated. I love sharing knowledge with like minded folks that don't mind thinking out of the box, when I can find the time. I normally share with folks in my circle, but branched out to the folks here because I found the site interesting and informative.
Keep this thread going, submit your ideas or criticisms. By the number of views already this is an interesting topic for lots of folks.
If you like my unconventional line of thinking, check out this thread on shop ventilation ideas.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211121
