Have you noticed machinist toolboxs are always wooden?

[Flivver250]

It seems that automotive toolboxes were generally fabricated from metal yet machinist toolboxes seemed to be predominantly wooden? Why the difference? I would think wood would be more prone to retain mositure and be a source of corrosion than metal. Is it one of life's unsolved puzzles?

 

[zkling]

There was a thread on this just the other day.

Couple things.
BACK in the day a machinist was expected to make their own box. As a sort of right of passage into the trade. Almost all of the big names in tool boxes made wooden and metal chests at one point in time, even Snap On and craftsman made a wooden machinist chest.

Wood boxes help to regulate temp, and humidity preventing tools from rusting. Alot of machinist tools are bare, uncoated steel that tends to rest pretty quickly. Those boxes were designed for delicate precision instruments, not 1/2" drive items like a mechanic would throw in their box.

Wood boxes are of a softer construction preventing precision tools from getting diged up if they happen to hit the side of the drawers or box.

One of the most common "working man" machinist boxes for the past ~50+ years is the Kennedy series, which are of metal construction. In this day and age with manufacturing, metal boxes are more economical to manufacture. Gerstner, one of the big names in wood machinist boxes still makes their boxes. Look them up, but make sure you are sitting.

 

[davethorik]

I guess it just depends where you look. At the shop I work at, more guys have HF boxes than Gerstners. Kennedy being most common.

 

[Kracin]

like zkling said.

i would think that a wooden box would be more friendly to items that have to retain their shape and stay free of marring, when you are talking things that are accurate to a ten thousandth of an inch, a little bump here and there can ruin things.

that and i just had to deal with somebody who didnt take care of my calipers and ended up with a tiny burr .006 in size on the tip, didnt notice it at all until my calipers weren't closing completely, had to fix it but coulda screwed up some measurements if i didnt notice.


i would think wood would have been a cheaper box in general though too back in the day.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Whilst on the subject, I've had Gerstners and was not impressed. Just complaining about the lack of slides. Even with parafin wax and all that, they don't hold a candle to a good BB slide.

That is to say I would much rather have a new Kennedy metal. Does anyone make a bitchin wood one with BB slides? Obviously not for weight, but just because I'm a frikin princess.

 

[rlitman]

In a top box, I doubt it.
I have a wooden bottom roll around cabinet that is wooden with metal roller slides and metal sided drawers with wood fronts. But it was not made as a toolbox. Rather, it was made for a dentist, although the form makes an awesome toolbox too.

 

[Kevin54]

It seems that automotive toolboxes were generally fabricated from metal yet machinist toolboxes seemed to be predominantly wooden? Why the difference? I would think wood would be more prone to retain mositure and be a source of corrosion than metal. Is it one of life's unsolved puzzles?

It depends on the era you grew up in. When I started in the trade, the machinist box of choice was the brown Kennedy's. The old timers that I worked with had Gerstners. Today, a machinist or Toolmaker may have anything.

One thing about a machinist box over a mechanics box is the gap between the drawers. If you look at a Kennedy top box, say a 521 or a 526, there is not a lot of space between drawers. If you look at a similar size mechanics box, chances are you can see in the drawers due to a wide gap. I think a lot of the tighter gap of the machinist box has to do with keeping swarf out. Also if you look at a machinist box, the drawers are way smaller in height than a mechanics box. Most machinist tools are not very large as far as height goes, hence the reason for the narrow height of the drawers. Also a machinist box doesn't need to carry the weight that a mechanics box does. Although, I was a different toolmaker than most, and I made use of the deeper drawers on my boxes. I kept things right at hand instead of running here and there to try and find something.

When I started in the trade, I bought Kennedy's. When I ended the trade, I had a large Crapsman top box, and a Menards base.

I've had numerous Kennedy boxes over the years. I've gave away some top boxes to ones that may have really needed one to start out in the trade. I've sold a few to different ones, and I still have an 8 drawer top box and a two drawer intermediate, and I have another that I repainted in black wrinkle. A coworker and good friend that I was training to become a toolmaker was not really loaded with cash, so I sold him my Kennedy setup (Top box, intermediate box, and 7 drawer roller) to get him started in the trade for the whopping total of $125. And it was all like new. That's how I ended up with the Crapsman and Menards setup.

As far as Gerstner boxes, that was sort of a stature thing among toolmakers. If you had a Gerstner on your bench, everyone knew that you were a toolmaker and had been in the trade for a number of years. Gerstner is looked at as the Cadillac of toolmaker boxes, and is more like fine furniture than just a toolbox. Of all the different boxes I've had over the years, I never did have a Gerstner box. I may get one someday, but not anytime soon

 

[jmm]

Any Gerstner owners here? Those boxes are really sharp, but I wonder how you keep them looking that way? A machine shop (or wherever they might be) can only be so clean.

I'm not a machinist, but I like to keep a machinist's box for my measurement tools and other delicate items. I've currently got an old Craftsman stamped Kennedy 520. I'm not hard on it, but just sitting there among the chemicals, tools, and other techs really takes it's toll. I can't imagine having a new Gerstner on my work bench.

 

[Creditor]

All the Kennedy boxes I have seen are metal

 

[Bob-B]

I have a 26" Gerstner box sitting on a Kennedy 2 drawer riser box on my bench. I keep my layout and inspection tools in it. I bought the zippered cover from Gerstner that they sell to protect the box.

My dad had a Union wood box on his bench when he worked as to tool & die maker from the 40's until he retired. It was a small box. Only had drawers, not top compartment. He told me that he kept it covered with an old towel and would clean and polish it with furniture polish twice a year at the Christmas and summer vacation shut-downs. When the towel got too grungy, it got changed.

 

[Flivver250]

About thirty two years ago a dear friend and I were coming from a fishing trip and he nearly crashed his truck pulling into an old farmhouse having a garage sale. He said that house is the late Mr *** who was one of the best machinists in the state. There was a very large and beautiful wooden tool box. He didn't open a drawer and asked how much? She asked for 200 bucks which he promptly handed over. While he and I were both strapping strong lads, we had all we could do to get it in the bed of his truck. I had to ride in back to keep it from sliding. He wouldn't open a drawer until he got home. It was packed full of every possible top quality machinist tool you could think of. He went pale and said he was going straight to hell. He drove right back to the widow's and gave her 200 more and told her it wasn't near enough. She thanked him and wouldn't take it. Said a deal was a deal. Wish I had the foresight and money to have scrounged around there. His whole shop was there with the spoils of a lifetime of machining. Young, dumb and broke.

 

[Kevin54]

Any Gerstner owners here? Those boxes are really sharp, but I wonder how you keep them looking that way? A machine shop (or wherever they might be) can only be so clean.

I'm not a machinist, but I like to keep a machinist's box for my measurement tools and other delicate items. I've currently got an old Craftsman stamped Kennedy 520. I'm not hard on it, but just sitting there among the chemicals, tools, and other techs really takes it's toll. I can't imagine having a new Gerstner on my work bench.

Almost every Gerstner owner has a cover for their box. It's almost a mandatory thing to have if you want to keep them looking nice. Plus other people have to respect the owner of the box and the box itself. Getting into one to borrow a tool is a huge no-no.

 

[3 at 8]

Why do they have mirrors in them??? I have a Lufkin which was my fathers. I keep fly tying stuff in it.

 

[Mohawk Dave]

Why do they have mirrors in them??? I have a Lufkin which was my fathers. I keep fly tying stuff in it.

I read somewhere on here to dig metal shavings out of your eye.

 

[Davefr]

Any Gerstner owners here?

Yea, I stumbled on it on Ebay with a great BIN and restored it. She's all original except for the leather handle. (even the felt was in good shape). Notice how the factory workers signed their name and dated it on the inside bottom. (3/1/1946).

 

[Mohawk Dave]

I sold this O52 Oak Journeyman 26" on ebay. Like I said, give me a BB Kennedy. Hell, I just use a full size Vidmar now.

 

[Bruce Lancaster]

A mirror is a basic first aid tool, I've found...not just eyeball swarf, but also for the steel shaving that snuck into your shoe and bored into the middle of your foot. Also occasionally useful for checking out something mechanical that you can't quite see or reflecting a bit of extra light...obviously I keep one that isn't screwed to the box.

 

[Kevin54]

Why do they have mirrors in them??? I have a Lufkin which was my fathers. I keep fly tying stuff in it.

I read somewhere on here to dig metal shavings out of your eye.

A mirror is a basic first aid tool, I've found...not just eyeball swarf, but also for the steel shaving that snuck into your shoe and bored into the middle of your foot. Also occasionally useful for checking out something mechanical that you can't quite see or reflecting a bit of extra light...obviously I keep one that isn't screwed to the box.

Most likely like Bruce stated......eyeball swarf. A machinist that has never had some steel in his eye at one time or another isn't working very hard. I think that is part of the initiation process into the machining world. A lot of the old machinist had some pretty good first aid kits in there boxes. Along with a mirror, a few band-aids, a can of bag balm, and camphor blocks to keep tools from rusting. Open the box and it smelled like a doctors office

 

[dos zetas]

Good thread...perhaps one of the reasons that most machinists' chests were wood, and auto repair tool boxes are metal, is that the machinist trade is a lot older than the auto trade, and the mass production and mechanised metal forming techniques used to make the big tool chests is an outgrowth of the automobile industry.

 

[zkling]

Dave, I don't think you are going to find a machinist CHEST (aka top box of resonable size) with ball bearing slides. Just not needed and kinda a detriment to most IMHO. Then again machining isn't for candy a$$ princesses

Yea, what really irritates me is the lack of drawer stops on most of the boxes, I understand the need at times to remove drawers, but agree, the lack of stops is a real PITA. Somewhat recently Gerstner came out with a spring loaded ball detent type "stop" but it can easily be overcome if not thinking about it.

I've seen where old timers modified their gerstner with string. That is they would put a length of string just long enough to allow the drawer to open, but not fall off the track. Pretty clever IMHO.

To ME, the ultimate machinist chest is a 26" wide, 12" deep chest with a bunch of thin drawers. The Kennedy 520 is pretty nice, I just can't stand they tiny drawer pulls. If they made a 520 with full length aluminum drawer pulls like on their larger boxes, that would be the ultimate. Their 3611 is very close. Just my 2¢

 

[LJZ]

^ ^ ^ LOL

When I started my apprenticeship ,after a few months the owner took me in the back room. (Guess he figured I was sticking around) This was an old shop. It was the last shop in the area that still had a line shaft. Man I could tell some stories there. Anyway this back room was a time capsule, very cool. We use to pour our lead hammers back there amongst other things. So he goes "are you interested in this?" and on the old untouched dusty bench was an old toolbox with a few minor things in it. It was from an old toolmaker who worked there and died a few years previous. I said sure and bought it for if I remember right about $20. Brought it home to clean it up and my Dad saw it and said " I will fix it up for you". Learned then it was a Union Toolbox. It was all crud-ed up but in solid shape. Dad worked on it for awhile and when it came time to refelt the drawers he said do you want the original color. I replied NO and wanted it Red. He kind of looked at me strange but red it was. The box was beautiful and I was a happy camper. When I brought it back to work the Old Germans were most distraught that I could do that to such a great old box. There was much grumbling and some German exchanged about ***** Schnitzel Bonk....
So I used that box for years on my bench. Bought Kennedy Tops, middles and roller cabs as the years past. And from my my opinion I will use a more modern kid term and say Meh. They did there job but that is all. Always kept the Union on my bench for the more precious stuff and as tradition . Later on after a few other shops I was transferred to an absolute hell hole. The first night there ,next morning someone had pried my nameplate off the box. It came home with me that day. She sits on my dresser as a memento.
Sorry for the long post. But the Union pulls on the heartstrings. Everyone loves some good wood......
Merry Christmas
Luke

 

[Kevin54]

For a lot of you that may be looking for a Gerstner but can't see paying a high price, keep an eye out for the older Gerstners that had leather coverings. The leather goes to **** on them so they look really ratty. Those can be picked up fairly cheap.

Strip the leather off, sand down the box, put some poly on it, and refelt the drawers and you will have a nice looking albeit odd Gerstner. The ones with leather use some different wood in them, but they still look great refinished. Or you could always cover it with leather again, but I don't think I would.

 

[WWIIjeep]

For a lot of you that may be looking for a Gerstner but can't see paying a high price, keep an eye out for the older Gerstners that had leather coverings. The leather goes to **** on them so they look really ratty. Those can be picked up fairly cheap.

Not real leather. Leatherette. Artificial or synthetic leather. Naugahyde. Pleather.

Strip the leather off, sand down the box, put some poly on it, and refelt the drawers and you will have a nice looking albeit odd Gerstner. The ones with leather use some different wood in them, but they still look great refinished. Or you could always cover it with leather again, but I don't think I would.

Here's instructions from Gerstner on how to replace the Leatherette on their chests:

http://gerstnerusa.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=124

The wood they used under the Leatherette was of lesser quality and often not even oak. The drawer fronts were still oak though. Here's an original, probably 50s vintage, that I bought some years ago to use at work so I could bring my good oak Gerstner home while it was still in good condition:



There's a few nicks and scratches on the Leatherette, but overall, it's in pretty good condition for having spent 50/60 years in a machine shop environment.

 

[Kevin54]

Not real leather. Leatherette. Artificial or synthetic leather. Naugahyde. Pleather.




Here's instructions from Gerstner on how to replace the Leatherette on their chests:

http://gerstnerusa.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=124

The wood they used under the Leatherette was of lesser quality and often not even oak. The drawer fronts were still oak though. Here's an original, probably 50s vintage, that I bought some years ago to use at work so I could bring my good oak Gerstner home while it was still in good condition:



There's a few nicks and scratches on the Leatherette, but overall, it's in pretty good condition for having spent 50/60 years in a machine shop environment.

True and true. A coworker had his dads box and the pleather was bad. He was going to get rid of the box, until I told him to strip it down, sand and refinish. IIRC, the box had what looked like Poplar in it. Even with the odd wood under the pleather, once it was sanded, stained, and poly'd, it looked great.

And if you look on Garage Journals home page, Ryan posted up a wood box with antique looking leather and it looks super. http://www.garagejournal.com/2013/12/txinkman-does-it-again/#more-1857

The box belongs to TXinkman

 

[35 Dodge]

The shop where I worked at required that you owned the basic measuring gauges and hand tools. Everyone had to have their own tool box to store them in. This one new guy that was hired off the street purchased his micrometer, test indicator and surface gauge through one of our suppliers, he brought in his old red mechanic's tool box to store them in. It stuck out like a sore thumb against all the brown Kennedy boxes. The plant manager told him that this was a machine shop not an auto repair shop and he needed a brown box. So the guy was shamed into buying a brown box. The plant manager was nice enough to let him make weekly affordable payments.

 

[LJZ]

For a lot of you that may be looking for a Gerstner but can't see paying a high price, keep an eye out for the older Gerstners that had leather coverings. The leather goes to **** on them so they look really ratty. Those can be picked up fairly cheap.

Strip the leather off, sand down the box, put some poly on it, and refelt the drawers and you will have a nice looking albeit odd Gerstner. The ones with leather use some different wood in them, but they still look great refinished. Or you could always cover it with leather again, but I don't think I would.

Hi Kevin:
I have one of those Gerstner's in my Barn. Yup Leather is all to hell. But the wood is nice. drawers etc. Its just retired up on a shelve now. My plan is to get it nice again and give it to my Daughter for a jewelry-chic accessory box. The wood is quite nice on it. I think they just used the 2nd choice lumber (Grain-wane)?? Stain a little darker. Although I don't remember seeing one with Walnut???
Luke

 

[WWIIjeep]

Although I don't remember seeing one with Walnut???

When I bought my O52 in the 1970s, walnut was available, but more expensive so I went with oak. They even offered mahogany on some models a long time ago. I think some of their newer-style chests are available in walnut or cherry.

 

[LJZ]

The shop where I worked at required that you owned the basic measuring gauges and hand tools. Everyone had to have their own tool box to store them in. This one new guy that was hired off the street purchased his micrometer, test indicator and surface gauge through one of our suppliers, he brought in his old red mechanic's tool box to store them in. It stuck out like a sore thumb against all the brown Kennedy boxes. The plant manager told him that this was a machine shop not an auto repair shop and he needed a brown box. So the guy was shamed into buying a brown box. The plant manager was nice enough to let him make weekly affordable payments.

Oh the weekly deduction from the Pay............. Did not have that cleared till My 4 th year.. Around here that was pretty standard that you made a sacrifice to Sydney Roby (Main tool supply house here at time). And yes the few that brought in mechanics boxes were shamed. Things weren't to PC then and if you did something wrong or out of context you were the **** of Jokes and pranks. Just how it was.
Luke

 

[LJZ]

When I bought my O52 in the 1970s, walnut was available, but more expensive so I went with oak. They even offered mahogany on some models a long time ago. I think some of their newer-style chests are available in walnut or cherry.

Oh so they did offer other species in the leather covered ones. Neat.
Thanks Jeep.

 

[Kevin54]

Hi Kevin:
I have one of those Gerstner's in my Barn. Yup Leather is all to hell. But the wood is nice. drawers etc. Its just retired up on a shelve now. My plan is to get it nice again and give it to my Daughter for a jewelry-chic accessory box. The wood is quite nice on it. I think they just used the 2nd choice lumber (Grain-wane)?? Stain a little darker. Although I don't remember seeing one with Walnut???
Luke

LJZ....welcome to Garage Journal. If the box is in an old barn, get it out of there and resurrect it. Peel the pleather off, sand it down, put some new felt in it and put it to use. Tool boxes are meant to be used and not just setting somewhere. It will make a great jewelry box for your daughter. A lot of people will buy Gerstners just for that use...a jewelry box. Today, the Gerstners are use by not only Toolmakers and Machinist, but they are used by people into all sorts of hobbies.

And when you start fixing it up, start a thread on it for all of us to see as to how it turns out.

 

[JoeFin]

BACK in the day a machinist was expected to make their own box. As a sort of right of passage into the trade. Almost all of the big names in tool boxes made wooden and metal chests at one point in time, even Snap On and craftsman made a wooden machinist chest.

And back then the first thing a shop supervisor would do is inspect the "New Hire's" wooden tool box to determine if he was going to keep him or not. A lot could be said of the quality and detail of a man's work ethic by the toolbox they constructed as an apprentice early on in the trade

small wonder many of these toolboxes "Outlived" their owners

 

[LJZ]

LJZ....welcome to Garage Journal. If the box is in an old barn, get it out of there and resurrect it. Peel the pleather off, sand it down, put some new felt in it and put it to use. Tool boxes are meant to be used and not just setting somewhere. It will make a great jewelry box for your daughter. A lot of people will buy Gerstners just for that use...a jewelry box. Today, the Gerstners are use by not only Toolmakers and Machinist, but they are used by people into all sorts of hobbies.

And when you start fixing it up, start a thread on it for all of us to see as to how it turns out.

Kevin, Yes it needs to see the light again. Its funny as you pointed out there are a few Engineers who, one has a gerst home and , one ( now left company) who had one on his desk. I remember asking him what shop he was from he kind of looked at me funny. He was a full on Engineer who had seen a Gerst in the shop and wanted one for himself... Hey this is great to see the company still up and running .
thanks bud
Luke

 

[WWIIjeep]

Oh so they did offer other species in the leather covered ones. Neat.
Thanks Jeep.

Oh, I thought you meant in general, not just the Leatherette covered ones. The only Leatherette covered Gerstner I've ever seen with drawers in something other than oak was a really old one that had mahogany drawers.

 

[nanofrog]

...a few Engineers who, one has a gerst home and , one ( now left company) who had one on his desk.

They make great boxes for electronics tools (polished steel, as plated is a big no-no), which can rust if not kept properly (don't want oil contamination on components either).

I haven't ponied up the funds for one yet though, and use wood cigar boxes instead, as I live in a very humid climate. For example, temp is fluctuating around freezing and relative humidity has been ranging in the 60 - 80% range.

 

[ez-duzit]

Bought my Gerstner decades ago and it is still in mint condition because it has only been used to store my drafting instruments. My machinist's tools and tooling are in metal tool chests.

 

[IndyGarage]

I have both a Gerstner and a Kennedy. Use the Kennedy more but that's just because of the tools loaded in it.

It used to be the sign of a machinist when you walked into a shop. Probably not so much anymore, because there are fewer machinists.

 

[Adam.C]

I think wooden boxes with wool felt drawer linings really help stave off rust. I think they really are better for machinist tools than Kennedys. I keep 1/4 sockets in the top till, and some tiny wiha screw drivers in a drawer, but no other mechanic tools.

I think the vinyl covered boxes are cool. Those vinyl covers are cheap to buy at the fabric store and easy to apply. I would not strip old covers and refinish the wood. You can get beautiful oxblood or dark green vinyl that looks like leather and would be welcome on a dresser as a jewelry box.

I think gerstner made mahogany boxes with red felt for Starrett. They also make black cherry boxes. Very nice. I installed my felt with wallpaper paste. Worked great.