What tool brand to replace Craftsman?

[Conductor562]

Not a whole lot of love for Proto in this thread. A few little mentions, but not what I expected. Proto and SK are nice, and both are good tools, but truth be told the best value in sockets is Blackhawk. USA made, high quality, and priced at or close to later USA Craftsman prices.

Zorotools.com has the best selection I've found. They're traditional combos are USA made at a great price also.

 

[DRhodes]

Not a whole lot of love for Proto in this thread. A few little mentions, but not what I expected. Proto and SK are nice, and both are good tools, but truth be told the best value in sockets is Blackhawk. USA made, high quality, and priced at or close to later USA Craftsman prices.

Zorotools.com has the best selection I've found. They're traditional combos are USA made at a great price also.

I had a Blackhawk ratchet replaced recently under warranty, and it was made in Taiwan. I hope they continue to make sockets here in the USA.

 

[Revere Cycles]

My latest hand tool purchases have been USA made Proto, Blackhawk, S-K and Williams. I was in Sears today to buy a Craftsman Premium 1/4" Ratchet, and as I was picking out sockets, I pulled the last USA metric sockets and socket sets off the shelves. What remained was made in China or Taiwan.

It struck me that would likely be the last time I purchase sockets from Sears. Although I understand that there are several budget tools made in Asia that are of acceptable quality, Made in USA was something that made Craftsman unique compared to a brand like Kobalt or Husky. Now I see very little to differentiate Craftsman from other tools manufactured in Asia, especially when many other manufacturers offer the same "guaranteed forever" warranty.

 

[comedyman809]

craftsman for mainly home owners is a a bit of an incorrect statement.
ive been in many shops, factories, service shops etc...etc...

ive seen many men with full sets of craftsman tools, tool boxes, carts, etc...etc...
im not just referring to young guys starting out, im talking about seasoned guys who have been around for years.

ill bet you there are plenty of veteran wrench turners on this forum with craftsman as their main brand.

 

[comedyman809]

by the way!!!! I love proto tools!!!!!!!

 

[Brownsfan]

I don't know much about proto at all. I think that SK is more widely known than Proto. I really don't even know where to get proto. I have a local distributer of SK, Williams and wright and Armstrong. Armstrong is another that does not get as much love. Hell if you liked USA Craftsman, Armstrong sockets and other things are very similar or some have said identical

 

[Conductor562]

I had a Blackhawk ratchet replaced recently under warranty, and it was made in Taiwan. I hope they continue to make sockets here in the USA.

Anything with a ratcheting mechanism has been Taiwan for a good while.

 

[CWP1616L]

Armstrong is another that does not get as much love.

That's because an Armstrong socket has those screwy detents same as Craftsman.

 

[Brownsfan]

That's because they are USA craftsman but with a heftier price. Well not anymore. Sears decided that they wanted USA craftsman to be as expensive as Armstrong. They call it industrial.

 

[thetreshon]

Warranty convenience is the single biggest advantage that Craftsman had/had going for it. I'll never buy SK, Armstrong or Proto because I have no idea how to exchange one of their tools when it breaks. Wal-Mart could become the new standard in warranty convenience if it chooses to.

But if we're talking about buying BRAND NEW tools, wouldn't you just bring it to exchange at the place where you bought these new tools in the first place? I know online stores most likely won't do any warranties/exchange, but if we're talking your traditional counter distributors of tools, then - I WILL buy brand new SK, Armstrong and Proto because the place that sold it to me WILL exchange my tools if they break!

I don't think I'd buy online thinking I'd get any warranty/replacement - I think the lower prices online remove the chances of me getting the traditional warranty that you'd get in person from a distributor.

But there are some distributors that will accept your tools for warranty regardless of where you bought them, especially when said distributor wasn't around when your dad bought that SK socket 40 years ago, and wherever your dad may have bought the socket may now be closed.

 

[monomach]

SK is still too expensive to be a replacement brand.

SK's prices are too WILDLY out of line with Craftsman's to be a replacement for most people. 200-400% of Craftsman's price, a lot of the time. Apples and Oranges.

$42 for a 14 pc metric wrench set
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-14-pc-metric-12-pt-combination-wrench/p-00946934000P?prdNo=8

vs

$132 for a 15 pc metric wrench set
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYCT0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

300% of the price. I'd say a 30% increase in price over a decent Chinese tool (and Craftsman is decent...just not good) because it was made here at home would be more in line. It can certainly be done; other US companies manage it. The truth is that SK doesn't want to replace Craftsman, so they're not even trying; they want to replace the truck brands.

99.9% of the world's population is going to tell you to go F yourself when you try to sell them a wrench set with a price tag in the triple digits.

 

[JR Maley]

Yup, I'm a best brand for the tool guy as long as its made in USA. For example Channel Lock pliers. As tool brands shift overseas, I find a good USA replacement. For example replace Crescent adjuable wrenches with Craftsman (actually better than Crescent IMHO).

 

[Cap'n]

I use Mastercraft Maximum from Canadian Tire for most of my wrenches and sockets but I guess they aren't available in the USA. Cheap, amazingly well made, and no questions asked replacement (I've only had to return one wrench and two or three regular sockets in the last 5 years). That said, some stuff they sell is garbage (screwdrivers, pliers, power tools etc.). Their ratchets are ugly and clunky, but very difficult to break.

I have a bunch of old craftsman USA wrenches and a couple ratchets, never liked them at all personally.

 

[Moose97]

This topic keeps coming up. Sears took it in the chops when they out-sourced to China. They will likely sale off the Craftsman brand and begin making made in the USA tools again plus keep a lower end line (evolve). Made in the USA is a big deal to tool people. Don't give up on Craftsman just yet. I think they will be back in the game sooner than later.

 

[Conductor562]

I still wonder to what extent Apex is responsible for the Craftsman outsource.

 

[sberry]

SK's prices are too WILDLY out of line with Craftsman's to be a replacement for most people. 200-400% of Craftsman's price, a lot of the time. Apples and Oranges.

$42 for a 14 pc metric wrench set
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-14-pc-metric-12-pt-combination-wrench/p-00946934000P?prdNo=8

vs

$132 for a 15 pc metric wrench set
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYCT0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

300% of the price. I'd say a 30% increase in price over a decent Chinese tool (and Craftsman is decent...just not good) because it was made here at home would be more in line. It can certainly be done; other US companies manage it. The truth is that SK doesn't want to replace Craftsman, so they're not even trying; they want to replace the truck brands.

99.9% of the world's population is going to tell you to go F yourself when you try to sell them a wrench set with a price tag in the triple digits.

who would have thunk it,,, the silly math.

 

[sberry]

ive seen many men with full sets of craftsman tools, tool boxes, carts, etc...etc...
im not just referring to young guys starting out, im talking about seasoned guys who have been around for years.

I got it, been doing this for near 40 yrs, still buy a few things from there.

I don't think I'd buy online thinking I'd get any warranty/replacement - I think the lower prices online remove the chances of me getting the traditional warranty that you'd get in person from a distributor.

Living proof someone is will ing to pay twice as much for a warranty when buying a replacement would be cheaper, Probably one wrench out of a set??? 10%

 

[sberry]

Box full of stuff I use minimally, good thing I didn't pay more than I did to have it sit. Keep some specialty tools in it but strip out the pieces I actually use and put on a cart.

Personally although Cman is kind of junky I am a fan to the cost, its so cheap one is foolish not to have it and the need for everything one owns to be premium is highly over rated, would use what I could from a Sears set and buy a handful of hard/hi duty cycle things as needed.

I talk to a couple guys that work parts counters, got a whole fat tool box of truck stuff near 6 digits, couldn't work faster with it to pay the interest difference let alone make anything with it.

 

[sberry]

The truth is that SK doesn't want to replace Craftsman, so they're not even trying; they want to replace the truck brands.

This is pretty accurate. Sears should have been shooting for SK instead they went head to head with HF and Walmart.

Its been on going. In 80 or so I bought my first big set, the biggest set Sears had and as I recall 3500 or so and at that time the truck brand was 10X the cost anf the price for Sears has tanked since to about 1/20 in sets, can buy it outright for the sales tax of the premium brand.

It would be one thing to be able to quantify it as twice or 4x as good but I will take a Cman wrench at a dollar or 2 any day over one I pay up to 30 for. I replaced a couple small snaps I had lost,,, not a thing to do with warranty and it cost 60$ and the guy acted like I was doing him a big favor. I do use it once in a while but every tool I need doesn't have to be that costly.

 

[krdiesel03]

I still wonder to what extent Apex is responsible for the Craftsman outsource.

I know some people in the industry and Bain capital has sears by the balls because of a badly written contract. There was nothing about COO. So sears could break the contract and pay a HUGE lawsuit or take the china tools and at reduced price.

 

[DRhodes]

SK's prices are too WILDLY out of line with Craftsman's to be a replacement for most people. 200-400% of Craftsman's price, a lot of the time. Apples and Oranges.

$42 for a 14 pc metric wrench set
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-14-pc-metric-12-pt-combination-wrench/p-00946934000P?prdNo=8

vs

$132 for a 15 pc metric wrench set
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002NYCT0/?tag=atomicindus08-20

300% of the price. I'd say a 30% increase in price over a decent Chinese tool (and Craftsman is decent...just not good) because it was made here at home would be more in line. It can certainly be done; other US companies manage it. The truth is that SK doesn't want to replace Craftsman, so they're not even trying; they want to replace the truck brands.

99.9% of the world's population is going to tell you to go F yourself when you try to sell them a wrench set with a price tag in the triple digits.

You can pick up used SK on ebay much cheaper. Ive seen the same set go for $50. When comparing used SK to new Craftsman, I would definitely take the SK. You can also buy used Craftsman on Ebay, but they still bring closer to the $40 mark used.

 

[pauls_workshop]

Not a whole lot of love for Proto in this thread. A few little mentions, but not what I expected. Proto and SK are nice, and both are good tools, but truth be told the best value in sockets is Blackhawk. USA made, high quality, and priced at or close to later USA Craftsman prices.

Zorotools.com has the best selection I've found. They're traditional combos are USA made at a great price also.

I only have a couple big Proto wrenches and a "crescent" style Proto adjustable 12" but these are really nice and high quality tools, way better than a Craftsmen. These are probably about 30 years old or so and are my favorites for these tools.

I also have about a 30 year old small SK socket set and rachet and old USA Craftsman sockets too. The SK fit sooo much nicer on the bolts than the USA Craftsman ones of the same era yet are thinner wall as well. The SK rachet is still a favorite of mine too for feel even vs. the modern 72 tooth Taiwan ones from HF or similar (which are very good no question for the money). The SK sockets are my favorites of any I've used. I got these SK and Protos at a real auction maybe 20 years ago or so before I knew what Proto or SK even was.

Agreed here Sears should have gone towards USA SK premium more instead of the choices they have made with poor quality mainly Chinese COO tools instead selling for about the prices they used to sell the US made stuff. Even a giant like Sears can change direction yet again and correct this but we'll have to see. - Paul

 

[krdiesel03]

But sears did go down in price, You just have to be a member of the SYWR. I have a %20 off tools coupon in my account all of the time. That is sears new strategy, member pricing.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Sears, Home Depot, Lowes, and Napa have their store brands of tools which are manufactured in factories worldwide under contracts..... cheap, cheaper. built to sell for a bargain price.. I have coined the term "Dime Store Tools" which represents the bulk of these tools.... If you want SK or ProTo, they are not the same league; and you will pay more for them... At least I gladly do...

 

[pauls_workshop]

But sears did go down in price, You just have to be a member of the SYWR. I have a %20 off tools coupon in my account all of the time. That is sears new strategy, member pricing.

That doesn't make me want to buy them any more! - Paul