Liftmaster 8500 opener
- Thread starter DonnyT
- Start date
jhochst
Well-known member
I can tell you NOT to get the set up that has the spring built into it, it says specifically not to. Otherwise shaft size is only other consideration I know. I have 3 8500's
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tdkkart
Well-known member
The 8500 is the new version of the 3800.
upndown
Well-known member
Torsion spring set up! Do not get the Wayne Dalton Torque Master system! If WD is your door of choice, just get it with Torsion Springs. 
upndown
Well-known member
What are you trying to covert? Is it a Torque Master system or an extension spring door?
rburke65
Well-known member
The spring size depends on the weight of the door. You need to determine the weight of the door to convert to torsion springs. The heavier doors require two springs .... The lighter doors, one.
upndown
Well-known member
Might be a good time to get a quote from a door co. Don't know how much headroom you have, but now would be a good time to add High Lift to your door! If you don't get the springs calculated correctly you'll never get the jack shaft opener to operate properly! Good luck..
Agreed. I just had three 8500's installed and the tracks on all three doors raised so they're snug to the rafters. Works great with my lift in one bay and my "new to me" tall shelves around the perimeter. Originall, I could only use top of the back half of two of my shelving units because the doors were too low.
Because I added insulation to my doors I hired a pro to calculate the proper spring size and install them with the proper tension.
Having the professional help was worth every penny and I saved a few bucks by doing a bunch of the prep work (electrical, etc.) ahead of time myself.
Because I added insulation to my doors I hired a pro to calculate the proper spring size and install them with the proper tension.
Having the professional help was worth every penny and I saved a few bucks by doing a bunch of the prep work (electrical, etc.) ahead of time myself.
Thx for the replies guys. I sent an e-mail to a door company and this is the response I received:
We can put together kits for converting to torsion springs.. we need to know the door size and weight to price..
With that being said, I would not recommend using a jackshaft type opener on a regular lift door, they are primarily designed for high lift and vertical lift doors the continue up past the opening when you have a very high ceiling, The 8500 does work with regular lift doors but if the door does not work 100% smoothly, it will trigger the cable tension sensor and you may have to help the door down by hand..
In a nutshell, they often work well when the door is new, but after the rollers wear a bit, they can be a bit of a pain.. Our company will no longer use these on regular doors because we have installed a few and have had too many call backs with problems closing the door on these openers as well as calls from homeowners who have used them and need us to try to make them work.. Just my 10 cents.. Thank you for your business
M. C. Overhead Door
So.... Whats the story, ??? Are these openers a PITA ???
We can put together kits for converting to torsion springs.. we need to know the door size and weight to price..
With that being said, I would not recommend using a jackshaft type opener on a regular lift door, they are primarily designed for high lift and vertical lift doors the continue up past the opening when you have a very high ceiling, The 8500 does work with regular lift doors but if the door does not work 100% smoothly, it will trigger the cable tension sensor and you may have to help the door down by hand..
In a nutshell, they often work well when the door is new, but after the rollers wear a bit, they can be a bit of a pain.. Our company will no longer use these on regular doors because we have installed a few and have had too many call backs with problems closing the door on these openers as well as calls from homeowners who have used them and need us to try to make them work.. Just my 10 cents.. Thank you for your business
M. C. Overhead Door
So.... Whats the story, ??? Are these openers a PITA ???
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pattenp
Well-known member
As to the response about a jackshaft opener on a standard door..., I have one on a standard door and have had no problems. The key is to have a properly working door, no sticking or jamming and to have a slightly positive closing weight
Edit: I bought the parts and converted my standard door from extension springs to torsion springs to use the LM3800. I used this web site for the parts, http://ddmgaragedoors.com. I purchased the torsion tube locally.
Edit: I bought the parts and converted my standard door from extension springs to torsion springs to use the LM3800. I used this web site for the parts, http://ddmgaragedoors.com. I purchased the torsion tube locally.
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In other words they'd rather you didn't. Yes thats an old commercial line. However - a decent door tech should be able to handle all of this for you.
I can't believe they're asking you for a weight...
Move onto another company.
I can't believe they're asking you for a weight...
Move onto another company.
And just how does one calculate a spring without a door weight? I agree with them 100% about a jackshaft operator on a standard lift door.
rburke65
Well-known member
I can believe they are asking for a weight......do you think they just install the same spring on every door?
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OK, so you are saying they are NG for a Standard 8' wide by 7' high sectional garage door ???? Thx
3800s and 8500s are used on how many hundreds of thousands of standard lift doors?
And if you work in this industry - you should have a nice little scrap of paper at least with the usual weights - and a way to measure... You shouldn't need to ask the homeowner to tell you the weight of their door... Who would actually know that?
And if you work in this industry - you should have a nice little scrap of paper at least with the usual weights - and a way to measure... You shouldn't need to ask the homeowner to tell you the weight of their door... Who would actually know that?
with over 30yrs in the garage door business, on a standard lift door that would not be my first choice
xyster101
Well-known member
I would call around for 3 quotes and have your information ready when you do. You are not good about providing us with information, so I hope you don't waste a door company's time. You need:
Door size
Weight (easy to do with a bathroom scale, just put under door without the opener attached)
height of current tracks
Radius of current tracks
Height of ceiling
I installed a 18' x 8' garage door and Lift master 8500. Took about 8 hours and 2 people to do the door and 2 hours for the opener. I never did it before and it was a bear even though it was straight forward. To convert, I would hire it out.
Door size
Weight (easy to do with a bathroom scale, just put under door without the opener attached)
height of current tracks
Radius of current tracks
Height of ceiling
I installed a 18' x 8' garage door and Lift master 8500. Took about 8 hours and 2 people to do the door and 2 hours for the opener. I never did it before and it was a bear even though it was straight forward. To convert, I would hire it out.
I think you missed the thread where I mentioned the size of the door. I'm not looking to waste anyone's time. 12' radius, 8' ceiling. Thanks for your reply.
BigGMC
Well-known member
My door guy (who I've known personally for many years) also voted against the 8500's for my application. Mentioned the same things that the door company said to you in thier email. All valid points.
After reading nearly every 8500 thread on this site, and seeing that many people are successfully using them on standard doors, I'm still going to go with that type of opener.
The key is understanding how they work and what is required to make them work.
As PattenP, mentioned you need some downward wieght on the door when it's fully opened so that when the jackshaft opener begins rotating the door shaft, the door immediatly begins coming down.
Problem is, a properly balenced door ussually wont. The jackshaft begins rotating, but the door either stays put or dosen't begin to move quickly enough and the cables slack up, tripping the sensor.
The reason highlift doors don't have this problem is that they generally have at least on panels' worth of wieght still hanging vertically over the door opening.
Spring tension may have to be adjusted a bit from the "norm" you can also tip the rails (on the cieling) slightly so that there is a bit of pitch toward the door opening.
the only thing I have against the 8500's is that with the code technology they use now, its not compatible with older homelink systems used in cars. you have to buy an extra unit to
make it work.
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BrianS
Well-known member
You can add helper pusher springs that will start pushing the door down to prevent the cable from going slack with a jackshaft style opener. I have one on one of my doors that I was unable to slope the tracks enough on.
Something like this:
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/gadopusp129.html
Something like this:
http://www.northshorecommercialdoor.com/gadopusp129.html
I went from 12" to 20" radius track on mine mostly to get the track height "perfect" rather than to compensate for the need for extra closing weight.
Again, this is why I had a pro do it and they do jackshaft openers specifically the Liftmasters ALL THE TIME on standard residential doors. They are extremely popular in my area because of the reduced noise more than anything else.
I have homelink on two of my cars and I got the Liftmaster homelink repeater for $30. Took literally 2 minutes to set it up and add both cars to the system.
BigGMC
Well-known member
pattenp
Well-known member
Apples and oranges... the door weight can be balanced with still having positive closing weight when the opener starts to unwind the springs. It's just a matter of having the door being slightly elevated higher at the rear to have a downward slope to start the door to close. All this nay saying about the LM3800/8500 on a standard door really puzzles me.
I still hear it a lot around here - lot of the bigger companies don't like doing 8500s for some reason - so its always "not recommended"
Ive installed literally hundreds - ive even done it on double track lowheadroom rear mount... It doesn't work well - but it works (and made me figure out how to connect a pair of cable monitors). Think ive had all of 3 service calls... One was a my fault - two were new construction building settled...
Yes inherently a jackshaft opener is less reliable than a trolley. And if you read up here you'll see the usual pitfalls - cable sensor is the big one... It is there for a reason - but people seem to like to override it just because its annoying and requires you to get the door operating properly...
Ive installed literally hundreds - ive even done it on double track lowheadroom rear mount... It doesn't work well - but it works (and made me figure out how to connect a pair of cable monitors). Think ive had all of 3 service calls... One was a my fault - two were new construction building settled...
Yes inherently a jackshaft opener is less reliable than a trolley. And if you read up here you'll see the usual pitfalls - cable sensor is the big one... It is there for a reason - but people seem to like to override it just because its annoying and requires you to get the door operating properly...
I agree totally - I have two 3800's on my garage now, but they are on high lift doors, and I as well have 50 or so installed in the field with no issues (I really like the lock). They have their place in the market, I'm not bashing the product, just like what Andy said, they are inherently less reliable on standard lift doors than drawbar