Frost free hose bibb reccomendation

[captain14]

Group,

I am looking for a frost free hose biib to replace my existing one that is
27+ years old. THe big box stores sell them but the rating are 2-3 stars on the websites.I found this one at Amazon with five stars. any thoughts about this one.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IKNPMM/?tag=atomicindus08-20



I do have some friends that are plumbers that I am sure could get one for me at thier plumbing supply house.

Thanks in advance

 

[mygarageone]

Frost free units come 2 ways. One with a vacuumed breaker ,this is the one you want. And one with out a vacuumed breaker.
Now if they have any of the following brands , you should be ok.

Nibco , Zurn , Woodford , Watts . These are all good units but like every thing now days ,quality is not a concern like it used to be.

 

[anthony666]

any thoughts about this one.

i have that kind .. they're only frost free if you install it so that all the water can drain out of it 100%, and the part with the MIP on it is inside a conditioned space .. basically it's just a regular hose bib but the valve is 10" deeper inside the pipe

 

[mygarageone]

Looking at the one on Amozon , you will find one just as good at a Lowes or
Home Depot. And like I mentioned , get the one with the vacuumed breaker on it.

 

[MrMark]

all the ones I have seen are pretty much junk. take your pick.

 

[anthony666]

Looking at the one on Amozon , you will find one just as good at a Lowes or
Home Depot. And like I mentioned , get the one with the vacuumed breaker on it.

i think i picked mine up at tractor supply

 

[mygarageone]

all the ones I have seen are pretty much junk. take your pick.

Based on What ? Looks or Experience ?

 

[mygarageone]

I have installed hundreds of res FF Hydrants , installed ( properly ) and using a quality unit.
It will last for years , the very reason they have these things is the home / business owner won't take the required precautions in the fall. And most plumbing set up's didn't have inside shut off valves.

 

[rlitman]

Frost free units come 2 ways. One with a vacuumed breaker ,this is the one you want. And one with out a vacuumed breaker.
Now if they have any of the following brands , you should be ok.

Nibco , Zurn , Woodford , Watts . These are all good units but like every thing now days ,quality is not a concern like it used to be.

It's "vacuum breaker".

I've had a few types, and had them all fail on me in one way or another. Do not under any circumstances sweat them in place. Get one with a 1/2" male thread, and sweat a 1/2" female threaded fitting on the end of the pipe on the inside. Put a ball valve behind that. That way, when it fails, it's a 10 minute job to replace.

The principle of these valves is that the part in the exterior wall is dry when closed. That only works if you disconnect anything from them so they can drip dry. If you leave a hose on them in the winter, they can still freeze.

For convenience, I like the 1/4 turn ones they have at Home Depot. They use a ceramic seat that should last a long time. Still, last winter, I had one fail. I'm not sure what happened inside, but the seat must have cracked in the cold, and it started leaking until there was a giant column of ice built up underneath it. I was real glad to have a valve just a few feet inside from it to stop the water flow until I could replace it in the spring.

 

[Mr onetwo]

In my 30 year experience as a plumber,Watts Regulator Co. makes very good stuff and I like the model FHB-1 for it's metal handle and ruggedness.Try a plumbing wholesaler in your town.Ferguson should have them.

 

[mygarageone]

It's "vacuum breaker".

I've had a few types, and had them all fail on me in one way or another. Do not under any circumstances sweat them in place. Get one with a 1/2" male thread, and sweat a 1/2" female threaded fitting on the end of the pipe on the inside. Put a ball valve behind that. That way, when it fails, it's a 10 minute job to replace.

The principle of these valves is that the part in the exterior wall is dry when closed. That only works if you disconnect anything from them so they can drip dry. If you leave a hose on them in the winter, they can still freeze.

For convenience, I like the 1/4 turn ones they have at Home Depot. They use a ceramic seat that should last a long time. Still, last winter, I had one fail. I'm not sure what happened inside, but the seat must have cracked in the cold, and it started leaking until there was a giant column of ice built up underneath it. I was real glad to have a valve just a few feet inside from it to stop the water flow until I could replace it in the spring.

Hey I'm a hunt and peck typist forgive my misspelled word eh ?.

The very reason these freeze is the home owner won,t remove the hose in the fall. That does not make the FF Hydrant bad , it is doing exactly what it's designed to do . Again properly installed and taking the hose off eliminated problems.

 

[mygarageone]

It's "vacuum breaker".

I've had a few types, and had them all fail on me in one way or another. Do not under any circumstances sweat them in place. Get one with a 1/2" male thread, and sweat a 1/2" female threaded fitting on the end of the pipe on the inside. Put a ball valve behind that. That way, when it fails, it's a 10 minute job to replace.

The principle of these valves is that the part in the exterior wall is dry when closed. That only works if you disconnect anything from them so they can drip dry. If you leave a hose on them in the winter, they can still freeze.

For convenience, I like the 1/4 turn ones they have at Home Depot. They use a ceramic seat that should last a long time. Still, last winter, I had one fail. I'm not sure what happened inside, but the seat must have cracked in the cold, and it started leaking until there was a giant column of ice built up underneath it. I was real glad to have a valve just a few feet inside from it to stop the water flow until I could replace it in the spring.

By the way that valve you are talking about is a code requirement , they are there for that exact reason.

 

[rlitman]

In my 30 year experience as a plumber,Watts Regulator Co. makes very good stuff and I like the model FHB-1 for it's metal handle and ruggedness.Try a plumbing wholesaler in your town.Ferguson should have them.

I've had the Watts fail, and mostly buy B&K Mueller now, because that's the best I can find locally. They too fail.
The plastic cap on the vacuum breaker on one craked when exposed to the sun. When they were using beige plastic knobs, those cracked the same way.
The metal knobs are much better, and they're now chrome plating the plastic vacuum breaker caps from what I've seen. I believe that will fare better in UV exposure, but I've also had the packing seal on these fail and leak out the stem (not on a Watts I believe, but I don't recall for sure). That was a formed rubber part that I couldn't source a replacement for (and tightening did not fix), so I replaced the whole thing.

Hey I'm a hunt and peck typist forgive my misspelled word eh ?.

The very reason these freeze is the home owner won,t remove the hose in the fall. That does not make the FF Hydrant bad , it is doing exactly what it's designed to do . Again properly installed and taking the hose off eliminated problems.

I forgive you. Not trying to be persnickety, just a minor correction that was hardly worth making.

I'm one who takes my hoses off, and blows them out. And I still had a valve fail last year. Like I said, I'm not sure what happened, but I know it was installed at a sufficient angle for it to drain properly. If not, the body of the valve would have split. It didn't, but the seat started leaking. That's not fixable with a ceramic seat, but HD exchanged it for me when I explained that a Frost Free valve should last at least one winter (it was only a few months old when it failed).

BTW, I wouldn't count on that 5 star review on Amazon. There are only 2 reviewers.

Oh, and I took another look at that specific valve, and it isn't one I would buy. That one has a 3/4" MIP / 1/2" FIP end.
I prefer the ones that have 1/2" MIP / sweat ends (again, never sweat them). The 3/4" MIP's hex end requires a much larger hole drilled in the wall that will show behind the escutcheon. You can get away with a smaller hole that hides well with the 1/2" MIP versions.

Look closely at the picture, and you'll see how much the hex sticks out from the body of the valve.

Now if you're replacing a valve where there's a 3/4" FIP or 1/2" MIP fitting already there, then by all means, get what fits.

 

[theoldwizard1]

i have that kind .. they're only frost free if you install it so that all the water can drain out of it 100%, and the part with the MIP on it is inside a conditioned space .. basically it's just a regular hose bib but the valve is 10" deeper inside the pipe

Let me emphasize how important that is !

When I had my house re-done with copper plumbing (before PEX was legal) I had freeze proof bibs installed. Being the lazy SOB that I am, I did NOT disconnect the hose before the first hard freeze.

In spring, I hook up the hose and turn on the faucet and can't figure out why there is low water pressure. Your right, the tube between the actual valve and the hose threads had split and was dumping water in my conditioned (concrete floor with heat ducts) crawl space. Any thing cardboard on the floor was destroyed (and my wife like to collect old boxes, "just in case"). What a mess !! I had regular hose bibs installed.

 

[rb69]

I replaced a Woodford non anti siphon hose bib with a Woodford anti siphon type, now the pressure out of it is low compaired to the non type.

does the anti siphon feature take away pressure from the hose bib?

Didn't see anybody say anything about when installing them to have them angle down so they drain after being shut off to help clear the barrel of water after the seat

 

[6768rogues]

The vacuum breaker is there to keep the hose from siphoning back into the potable water system. It is a cheap form of backflow preventer. If you don't have a vacuum breaker and you stick your hose into a container with, say, Roundup and the house looses water pressure, the hose could siphon Roundup back into your drinking water system. The vacuum breaker only works if the hose end that is submerged is lower than the vacuum breaker. So, if you put the hose over the side of an above ground pool and that is higher than the vacuum breaker, the vacuum breaker is rendered useless. Its entire purpose is to break the siphon and protect the potable water system. There are more sophisticated backflow preventers available, but not as cheap as a vacuum breaker. Our code requires them on hose bibs.

 

[rb69]

6768rogues , thanks for the understand on how they work/what they do, but still think i must be lossing presuure from it or the smaller openings at the seat area of the stem. I have compaired the old style and the anti-shipon and appears to have smaller (windows) that allow water to flow from the seat and by the stem when opened.
When washing the car it's like you have half the spray power

 

[mygarageone]

6768rogues , thanks for the understand on how they work/what they do, but still think i must be lossing presuure from it or the smaller openings at the seat area of the stem. I have compaired the old style and the anti-shipon and appears to have smaller (windows) that allow water to flow from the seat and by the stem when opened.
When washing the car it's like you have half the spray power

Do you have a 1/4 or 1/2 turn faucet ? If so there's your problem , that style will not open as much like the old type seat and bib washer.

 

[regguy1]

You might consider a hot and cold hose bib. I just installed one with PEX connections, it simplifies installation. Here's the site, see PEX models in chart:
http://www.woodfordmfg.com/woodford/Wall_Faucet_Pages/Model-22.html

Here's the inside PEX connections I made including shutofff valves