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The VISES of Garage Journal

Filson

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Re: google fail

Inspired by you viseaholics at GJ, I'm going to try to restore my grandfather's old Craftsman vise.

IMG_20140127_174052.jpg


It's a model 5249, but I haven't been able to find much info on it. From what I could find, I'm thinking it was probably made a bit after WWII.

The base seems to be missing a spacer of some sort-- if you tighten down the base bolt until it's snug, the vise no longer rotates on the base. I'm thinking some kind of sleeve (nylon or brass?) will remedy that. I think it also used to have a pipe clamp (I think I still have half of it somewhere and there's a spacer/washer still on the shaft).

The jaws are worn pretty smooth. I took a quick look at it and I think they are screwed in.

I figure I'll strip it myself and hit it with a few coats of heavy duty paint. I can't see any evidence that it's ever been repainted so I will probably try to use a similar color or maybe go with a blue-gray to fit in with the color scheme of my garage.

Looks like one other guy here had the same vise, but he made one post about it and left. If anybody has any other information that might help me, especially where I could source pipe jaws, replacement jaws or the aforementioned spacer or any ideas about what the original color might have been) please let me know. Thanks!! :thumbup:

Oh... please think about that a second first. I did that with one of my grandpas vises I inhereted when he passed away as I was just getting into vises and was excited to give it ago... After I was done, I realized I had wiped away his "fingerprints" on it forever... I was crushed and very upset at myself. :sad:

Completely up to you, but something to consider.
 
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oldldh

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Speaking of Big Exposed Screw Vises, Tedsters has posted a ---

Who, What, Where request, about this vise, on the Forum...

I'm betting this beastie is on the north side of a 100 lbs...

Hell the main screw probably weighs 30 lbs!!!

I don't know if the through bench mount is with the vise, but there are no mounting holes...

I do believe the bottom plate is around an inch thick, this is a heavy exposed screw vise...

Update: The consensus is the manufacturer was Reed...
 

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drivesitfar

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hopefully you will post the first pics of those vises after you find them in some neighbor's barn. by the way you are setting your sights a little low if you want a really big vise because the 695 pound Railroad vise might be a bit bigger.

cheers
 

oldldh

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The same fellow that has your 409/209 photos, has the pictures of "my" 5198 Craftsman...

And he ain't gonna let us see them...
 

Filson

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hopefully you will post the first pics of those vises after you find them in some neighbor's barn. by the way you are setting your sights a little low if you want a really big vise because the 695 pound Railroad vise might be a bit bigger.

cheers

Uhm... SAY WHAT!?!?!? :scared::scared::scared:

Please share details... Why have I not known that such a beautiful thing exists? :confused::confused::drool::drool:
 

Filson

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The same fellow that has your 409/209 photos, has the pictures of "my" 5198 Craftsman...

And he ain't gonna let us see them...

Oldldh - you have my word that if I ever come across a 5198 Craftsman vise I will pick it up for the sole purpose of passing it on to you. Ahh to slay the white whale.
 

KMScott

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Do they make a 5198?

I have several handles to make and the one on my 600S was cut and re welded. If some one would not mind giving me the overall length I would be grateful. I added my drawing and I am guessing they are 14". Thanks in advance.

Kevin
 

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Filson

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Enjoy and i'm looking for a real picture of this one or where I can see one in person. anybody????

Ahhh yeah I remember that now. Forgot about the drawing... a real pic would stand out in the memory a bit better :drool: thanks for sharing! :thumbup:

U HAVE TO READ ALL 634 PAGES OF VISES 2 find it.:bounce:

LOL, I think I've actually read about 80-90% of this thread. But I'll be damned if I can remember where anything is at in all it lol.

I wish the Dayid's Knowledge database person would update the site a bit more, or let me take it over o_O
 

drivesitfar

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Do they make a 5198?

I have several handles to make and the one on my 600S was cut and re welded. If some one would not mind giving me the overall length I would be grateful. I added my drawing and I am guessing they are 14". Thanks in advance.

Kevin

Kevin, in case a 600S owner isn't online tonight how about googling a 600S which should put you right back to GJ and maybe a few owners of them that made threads that you can PM.

Oldie: you have a catalog picture and not a live one and only a rumor that Oultlaw has one under his bench (or bed)? no wonder you have nightmares about this vise. by the way are the shingles gone?
 

Filson

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So I recently signed up with Practical Machinists and threw up some of my vise **** in their vise thread... The thread was started in 2006 but has a fraction of the content as here... Are we really that obsessed? Haha!
 

drivesitfar

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I think they only made 2 of those 5198's and Outlaw has one of them. Oldie has a catalog picture of one for $28.00 which might have been competing against other vises for half that much.
 
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bigcaddy

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I think they only made 2 of those 5198's and Outlaw has one of them. Oldie has a catalog picture of one for $28.00 which might have been competing against other vises for half that much.

I'm sure they exist and are out there. I just wonder if the shipping weight might of made them unpopular for vise shoppers, therefore somewhat rarer?

I'm pretty sure my 3.5" swivel base tops the scales around 60lbs. What did the 5" vise weigh?
 

bigcaddy

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Do they make a 5198?

I have several handles to make and the one on my 600S was cut and re welded. If some one would not mind giving me the overall length I would be grateful. I added my drawing and I am guessing they are 14". Thanks in advance.

Kevin

Kev,

I'm pretty sure thats right on the money. If i get a chance tomorrow, ill dive into the pile and fish out a 600 to get you the dimensions.
 

drivesitfar

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Yeah, i got my locomotive pinched in it right now in the backyard, trying to bleed the brakes. Why?:lol:

so the vise museum has a Railroad vise?? also a 5198 and maybe Filson's Reed 209? I know you said what it lacked in size it made up with your packing skills, but those vises need a warehouse to hold them.
 

jherm

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Figured with all of the questions and comments I'd ask here. Any input on the value of a US made wilton 746? I can't find a lot online about it. CL doesn't carry much so finding good old vises are few and far between here
 

Hencini

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5249 shows up in the 1940 catalog, with 4-1/2" wide jaws, and weight is listed at a VERY surprising 38 lbs. Probably the heaviest exposed screw vise I've ever heard of.. I've never actually seen one over I think about 15 lbs...

Link to the Craftsman vise ID Thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149519

Very cool info, thanks!!

And yeah, for a "hobby vise", it's a moose. :)

Edit: The ad says the original color was "crackle blue". I'll have to see if I can find a picture of that.

Oh... please think about that a second first. I did that with one of my grandpas vises I inhereted when he passed away as I was just getting into vises and was excited to give it ago... After I was done, I realized I had wiped away his "fingerprints" on it forever... I was crushed and very upset at myself. :sad:

Completely up to you, but something to consider.

I hear you, and thanks for sharing your story. As it turns out, my home is full of "relics" from my grandparents' house-- furniture, kitchen utensils and artwork my grandfather painted. I have broken tools in my toolbox I can't bear to throw away because they were his. His "fingerprints" are everywhere, literally and figuratively. And even if I wipe his actual prints from the vise in the process of refinishing it, honestly, I think he'd be fine with it knowing it was a project undertaken with care and with him in mind. :thumbup:
 
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Filson

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I hear you, and thanks for sharing your story. As it turns out, my home is full of "relics" from my grandparents' house-- furniture, kitchen utensils and artwork my grandfather painted. I have broken tools in my toolbox I can't bear to throw away because they were his. His "fingerprints" are everywhere, literally and figuratively. And even if I wipe his actual prints from the vise in the process of refinishing it, honestly, I think he'd be fine with it knowing it was a project undertaken with care and with him in mind. :thumbup:

Hey no problem. I'm not opposed to anyone doing such a thing, and I sincerely believe my grandpa would of been happy to see his old little vise brought back to life. But I think it was the thought that I didn't think about the concept until after I was finished that made me feel ****** about it. Anyway, look forward to seeing how it turns out!
 

Outlawmws

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I'm sure they exist and are out there. I just wonder if the shipping weight might of made them unpopular for vise shoppers, therefore somewhat rarer?

I'm pretty sure my 3.5" swivel base tops the scales around 60lbs. What did the 5" vise weigh?

95 -107 for the '98 and yours was adverted at 42-51, and my '95 actually weighted in at 44. (There were some weight differences over the years, lighter in 48, heavier in later years.)
 

oldldh

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So, I haven't even seen any info on the 5198 - what's the size of it? Why is it so hard to find?

They're rare...they weren't cheap, $ 54.00 plus freight in 1954 was a lot of money, for a vise..:headscrat:headscrat

The 5198 is a 5" swivel base vise that weighs 107 lbs...:drool::drool::drool:

These are the best photos I have...the two on the right are of the 77 lb 5197...I can't find a photo of a 5198...It's a lot like ol' Don Quixote's windmill tilting...

Outlaw's Craftsman Vise thread is my main source for information...his ads are the Mother Lode of vise data...
 

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Filson

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They're rare...they weren't cheap, $ 54.00 plus freight in 1954 was a lot of money, for a vise..:headscrat:headscrat

The 5198 is a 5" swivel base vise that weighs 107 lbs...:drool::drool::drool:

These are the best photos I have...the two on the right are of the 77 lb 5197...I can't find a photo of a 5198...It's a lot like ol' Don Quixote's windmill tilting...

Love the looks of the front end!

What'd a 5197/5198 be worth in good working order? Not sure what'd be a good price to pay :dunno:

Btw, using historic inflation rates, $54 in 1954 is the equal to $467.65 as of 2013...
 
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oldldh

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Love the looks of the front end!

What'd a 5197/5198 be worth in good working order? Not sure what'd be a good price to pay :dunno:

Btw, using historic inflation rates, $54 in 1954 is the equal to $467.65 as of 2013...

The red 5197 was sold for "north of $ 300.00" by GJ member, who shall remain nameless, who wishes he still had it...it was properly restored...

This pristine 5196/4" sold on Ebay for $265.00 plus freight...it was in unrestored almost perfect shape, I dropped out at $150.00, because I wanted the two bigger vises, and the price was going up too fast, to suit me...I should have bought it, but if I'd kept bidding, I have no idea how high it would have gone...I wouldn't have gone beyond $300.00, but the opposition might have...
 

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oldldh

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I'd have to think about eating or a vise...

And then there's my wife...

Oh the conundrums in life....

I'd really like to have both a 5197 and 5198, but there is a point where reality rears its ugly head...

I might go $ 500.00 for a pair if they were in the same shape as the 5196 pictured up in my last post...but I am retired and I've got 9 grandchildren and 4 great-grandchildren to buy toys for, my toys take a rear seat...

The 5198 is rarer than an honest politician...
 
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zoomieport

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I have several handles to make and the one on my 600S was cut and re welded. If some one would not mind giving me the overall length I would be grateful. I added my drawing and I am guessing they are 14". Thanks in advance.

Kevin

Kev,

I'm pretty sure thats right on the money. If i get a chance tomorrow, ill dive into the pile and fish out a 600 to get you the dimensions.

You guys are correct as far as I could tell... I measured 3 different 600S handles and they are pretty much 14" overall length, with 5/8"-3/4" knobs on the ends...
Hope this helps...

Zoom
 

fullthrottle24

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I'm sure they exist and are out there. I just wonder if the shipping weight might of made them unpopular for vise shoppers, therefore somewhat rarer?

I'm pretty sure my 3.5" swivel base tops the scales around 60lbs. What did the 5" vise weigh?

I think the reason we can't find the 5197 & 5198 Craftsman vises is due to the fact they are still being used today. While I will agree that the price plus the cost to ship these monsters was too much for the homeowners, many were bought by manufacturing shops. Just the other day, I went to a place that makes brass musical instruments. I couldn't believe all the old American vises in use. Each work station had 2 or 3, all sizes, condition, color, you name it. Craftsman was a well respected name at the time, I wouldn't be surprised if the first one found comes from a shop and not a home.
 

MixManSC

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I'll play.... Big 6" imported junker (already has a crack in 1 jaw) "Star Gold" brand. Pretty much a Record clone, same as Galaxy and a couple of other imports based on the design. It's not total junk, it is heavy and pretty stout but not great by any means. Probably at least 30 years old. Next is a 3.5" Columbian, then a little unbranded 2.5", and finally my old Richards & Wilcox woodworking bench vise.

One day I'd like to pick up a good quality 6" or larger to replace the Star.
 

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KMScott

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You guys are correct as far as I could tell... I measured 3 different 600S handles and they are pretty much 14" overall length, with 5/8"-3/4" knobs on the ends...
Hope this helps...

Zoom

Thanks Zoomie and caddy, I have a lathe rented tonight and will be making handles for 5 different vises with spares. Wilton sure came up with odd ball sized handles, 11/16, I am glad the 600S used a 3/4 dia. The 1144 steel I like to use does not come in 16th sizes. Plus I want to try peening the knob ends on like I believe Wilton did assembling their vises back in their hay days.

Thanks Outlawmws for the Craftsman article, just thinking oldy was dreaming, you know how he gets.
 
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