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Would like some opinions on a Sub Panel and/or 220V circuit.

andyhurz20

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I am in the middle or rewiring the workshop in the garage. I would love to hear some opinions and ideas on what I should do before I button everything up and start sheet rocking! So thank you for any advice in advance!

As shown in the picture below I have run a new circuit into the garage (the orange 10 gauge wire). I thought to do this just in case I wanted to run anything on 220V in the future. Currently, I am only using a single leg (110V) and wired in 2 circuits, one goes to a 20 amp switch to a single 20 amp recptical, the other to 3 20 amp recepticles. (Ignore the other switch, that is live 14 gauge, that is on a 15 amp breaker, to the ceiling receptacle for the light.)

So I have a couple of questions?

The first is what is everyone running on their 220V circuits? What size breakers do they need for that equiptment?

I will hopefully one day have a nice welder, so for most welders would I would need a 50 amp breaker and 6 gauge wire for a outlet?

Can I/should I run a sub panel to my garage from my sub panel? That way I could run 220V in set up a 220V receptical, and then run a 110V single leg to everything else?

Thank you again for any help!

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ez-duzit

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What you have will be OK for lights and small, corded tools, maybe a modest table saw. But you'll want to replace that 10-ga extension cord with some heavy cable to power a sub panel. Ga depends on total loads and distance run.
 
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mrjaw14

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Put in a sub-panel with proper feeders for 100A (protected at 90A if using AL) and you'll be so glad you did. #2 AL (I think) and a sub panel and other stuff was cheaper than #4 Cu wire.

I had a single 10ga piece of romex feeding my garage and my power tools bogged down and felt lifeless until I did it right. Now they're happy as can be. Do it now while you have your walls apart.
 
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Mustang51js

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If it's easy run the sub panel,better now than wishing you did it later. It will only improve the value of house a little
 
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andyhurz20

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I think that the general consensus is that I should put in a sub panel, but I think that I am going to but I am going to leave what I currently have. I am planning on ripping out the plaster walls in the garage section in the summer and rewiring/insulating/etc. Currently to the work shop I would need to have a 50' run to a sub panel. If I put one by the garage door I would only need <10'. I think it would make more sense to have one there. Thank you for the advice guys!
 

2ManyProjects

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I am in the middle or rewiring the workshop in the garage. I would love to hear some opinions and ideas on what I should do before I button everything up and start sheet rocking! So thank you for any advice in advance!

As shown in the picture below I have run a new circuit into the garage (the orange 10 gauge wire). I thought to do this just in case I wanted to run anything on 220V in the future. Currently, I am only using a single leg (110V) and wired in 2 circuits, one goes to a 20 amp switch to a single 20 amp recptical, the other to 3 20 amp recepticles. (Ignore the other switch, that is live 14 gauge, that is on a 15 amp breaker, to the ceiling receptacle for the light.)

That's more than a little "kludgey"; but I suppose it could work. One potential problem is that you still need to feed this from a dual-pole breaker in the panel, so that you CAN convert it back to a 240V circuit if/when needed. But note that when you do that, you can no longer "tap off" any 120V feeds to other devices/circuits.

So I have a couple of questions?

The first is what is everyone running on their 220V circuits? What size breakers do they need for that equiptment?

This varies wildly with the individual user, and precisely what tools/equipment THEY need for THEIR activities. If you're a woodworker, having someone tell you about their two-post lift and MIG welder would not be very useful. If you're a hot rodder and fabricator, a carpentry shop's table saw and joiner/planer would be of similarly little interest. And even within any of these general scenarios, the electrical requirements of any given piece of equipment are still specific to THAT particular piece of equipment. In short, you need to know what equipment you'll be running BEFORE you can reasonably predict the electrical circuits they will require.

I will hopefully one day have a nice welder, so for most welders would I would need a 50 amp breaker and 6 gauge wire for a outlet?

Depends completely on the particular welder. There are also "special" rules for some types of dedicated welder circuits, which further muddies the waters.

Can I/should I run a sub panel to my garage from my sub panel? That way I could run 220V in set up a 220V receptical, and then run a 110V single leg to everything else?

I gather this is an attached garage? If so, a sub-panel is not strictly required by code; but it remains a VERY good idea if you're going to run more than a trivial amount of "stuff" in the garage. That said, if you DO install a sub-panel, you will surely want to fed more than two branch circuits from it. Even a typical smallish (say, 20'x20') residential garage with nothing particularly "special" going on would normally use at least a half-dozen or so.

I think that the general consensus is that I should put in a sub panel, but I think that I am going to but I am going to leave what I currently have.

Why?

Part of the beauty of a sub-panel is that it can/will in effect ALSO "off-load" circuits from your main panel. This not only makes for a neater overall installation, it also frees up panel space in your main load center for additional loads in the house itself, or at the least lightens the loads on the existing (shared) branch circuits.

I am planning on ripping out the plaster walls in the garage section in the summer and rewiring/insulating/etc. Currently to the work shop I would need to have a 50' run to a sub panel. If I put one by the garage door I would only need <10'. I think it would make more sense to have one there.

"One" WHAT? I'm not really following you here. But that said, if you're willing to open up the walls, that makes EVERYTHING else much easier. You can easily run branch circuits wherever you need them, and as many of them as you need.

A 50-foot run from the main panel to the sub-panel should not be a problem. Depending on how much total capacity (i.e., amperage) you need in the garage, the odds are overwhelming that whatever size wiring is required based on simple ampacity limits would also be more than adequate to keep voltage drop from being a problem.

I would suggest you start by making up a "Wish List" of all the tools & equipment you hope to eventually have in that garage. Pretend that Santa Claus has decided you're the best little boy on Earth, and you have one shot to cash in on the windfall. Once you have that, try to assign some priorities (i.e., inject some sanity), to determine which things are fairly likely to actually happen within the next year or two, vs. those which are but a far-off dream. With that prioritized list in hand, it becomes somewhat feasible to predict your overall electrical needs.

Also, let us know what you currently have in the way of incoming electrical service, and your main breaker panel.

 
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andyhurz20

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First I want to say thank you very much for the in depth response! I guess I should have started off by explaining my situation. I have a single car garage 10' x 19' with a 8' x 8' workshop. The picture that I posted is in the workshop part of my garage. If you follow this link in my signature it will explain a bit more about my garage and what I do.

That's more than a little "kludgey"; but I suppose it could work. One potential problem is that you still need to feed this from a dual-pole breaker in the panel, so that you CAN convert it back to a 240V circuit if/when needed. But note that when you do that, you can no longer "tap off" any 120V feeds to other devices/circuits.

I know I didn't really think that through fully when I started to do the 10 gauge wire. I really should have run 12 gauge and called it a day, but that's when I started thinking about 220V and doing the sub panel.


This varies wildly with the individual user, and precisely what tools/equipment THEY need for THEIR activities. If you're a woodworker, having someone tell you about their two-post lift and MIG welder would not be very useful. If you're a hot rodder and fabricator, a carpentry shop's table saw and joiner/planer would be of similarly little interest. And even within any of these general scenarios, the electrical requirements of any given piece of equipment are still specific to THAT particular piece of equipment. In short, you need to know what equipment you'll be running BEFORE you can reasonably predict the electrical circuits they will require.

I am a track weekend warrior and do all the work on my own cars. I have also started to do a bunch of fabrication and do some woodworking on the side. I know this is quite the requirement for a single car garage but I'm trying to make it all work because me and my wife love the house and neighborhood. So anyway here are my immediate requirements. I have a Challenger LFMR6 scissor lift with a 1hp 115V, I just bought a 9" South Bend Lathe that has had the motor swapped to a 1 hp 110V, I have a Blast cabinet (not sure of the requirements but it has a large fan built in it is also 110), I have a small 110V oven that I use for powder coating, I just got a 75000 btu Modine Natural Gas Heater that has a 115V fan motor (over kill...YES). For the future I know that I can't fit that much more in my garage but I was hoping to pick up a bench mill or a Linley Jig Bore, the one's that I have been looking at are all 110V, then there will also be the occasional 14" Dewalt Chop saw, mitre saws, tables saw, etc. etc. I also run air tools, but my compressor is in the basement and is only 110V, that for sure one day I would like to have a 6.5 hp 80 gallon monster! I know that it is a small space but I love to do work!



Depends completely on the particular welder. There are also "special" rules for some types of dedicated welder circuits, which further muddies the waters.

I was thinking of a Millermatic Mig probably something like 180 or a 211. I don't think I would need anything larger/stronger than that.



I gather this is an attached garage? If so, a sub-panel is not strictly required by code; but it remains a VERY good idea if you're going to run more than a trivial amount of "stuff" in the garage. That said, if you DO install a sub-panel, you will surely want to fed more than two branch circuits from it. Even a typical smallish (say, 20'x20') residential garage with nothing particularly "special" going on would normally use at least a half-dozen or so.


It is an attached garage. I think that the sub panel would be the way to go that way all the circuits in the garage can be controlled by that sub panel. My current plans are to have 4-5 separate circuits.

1 20A for the receptacles in the workshop. Which would include the heater and blast cabinet or lathe or jog bore or anything I plugged in. I don't see myself running a bunch of equipment at one time in there although it could happen.

1 20A for all the receptacles on the garage side. Including the garage door opener, TV (hopefully), ceiling fan, computer, running hand tool, etc.

1 to 2 depending on what I need, 15A circuit for lighting, which will most likely be 2-3 exterior fixtures and 3 to 5 interior fluorescent fixture.

1 220V for a compressor in the basement

1 220V for a welder in the garage

Why?

Part of the beauty of a sub-panel is that it can/will in effect ALSO "off-load" circuits from your main panel. This not only makes for a neater overall installation, it also frees up panel space in your main load center for additional loads in the house itself, or at the least lightens the loads on the existing (shared) branch circuits.

I agree sub panel in the garage would clean it up!


"One" WHAT? I'm not really following you here. But that said, if you're willing to open up the walls, that makes EVERYTHING else much easier. You can easily run branch circuits wherever you need them, and as many of them as you need.

I was saying it would be easier to put a sub panel in the garage next to the garage door since my main panel is right there in the basement, rather than run it 50' to the workshop. I have plaster on the walls of the garage not insulated, so I am going to rip it all apart and get all my wiring done before closing them back up.

A 50-foot run from the main panel to the sub-panel should not be a problem. Depending on how much total capacity (i.e., amperage) you need in the garage, the odds are overwhelming that whatever size wiring is required based on simple ampacity limits would also be more than adequate to keep voltage drop from being a problem.

I don't think I need to worry about the voltage drop being in such close proximity to the main, and I don't think that I will need that much capacity since most of my equipment won't be on all at the same time.

I would suggest you start by making up a "Wish List" of all the tools & equipment you hope to eventually have in that garage. Pretend that Santa Claus has decided you're the best little boy on Earth, and you have one shot to cash in on the windfall. Once you have that, try to assign some priorities (i.e., inject some sanity), to determine which things are fairly likely to actually happen within the next year or two, vs. those which are but a far-off dream. With that prioritized list in hand, it becomes somewhat feasible to predict your overall electrical needs.

Also, let us know what you currently have in the way of incoming electrical service, and your main breaker panel.

The wish list is endless! Realistically speaking, I think I pretty well stated what I think I am going to have in the garage eventually above. Thankfully I am very limited with space so I really have thought through the equipment that I would like to have in there, really utilizing the space!

As far as current set up for electrical. I have 100 amp service. I figured I could just post a picture to make it easier.

Main panel is full a bunch of space on the sub panel! Sorry about the crappy phone pic!

https://scontent-a-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/t1/1004947_10101727242025021_893618493_n.jpg

Thank you again!
 

2ManyProjects

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First I want to say thank you very much for the in depth response! I guess I should have started off by explaining my situation. I have a single car garage 10' x 19' with a 8' x 8' workshop.

Do I correctly gather from your various comments that the garage and the workshop are two separate spaces, possibly NOT in close proximity?

The picture that I posted is in the workshop part of my garage. If you follow this link in my signature it will explain a bit more about my garage and what I do.

I might get to that later; right now, I'm trying to finish up this GJ "pass" and get some sleep.

I know I didn't really think that through fully when I started to do the 10 gauge wire. I really should have run 12 gauge and called it a day, but that's when I started thinking about 220V and doing the sub panel.

OK... Then as long as you're willing to rip all that out and start over -- which I REALLY think you ought to -- then go for at least one generously sized sub-panel, and be done with it. The reason I said "at least one" is, if the garage and workshop are indeed two completely separate spaces, it MIGHT be best to put a separate sub-panel in each.

I am a track weekend warrior and do all the work on my own cars. I have also started to do a bunch of fabrication and do some woodworking on the side. I know this is quite the requirement for a single car garage but I'm trying to make it all work because me and my wife love the house and neighborhood. So anyway here are my immediate requirements. I have a Challenger LFMR6 scissor lift with a 1hp 115V, I just bought a 9" South Bend Lathe that has had the motor swapped to a 1 hp 110V, I have a Blast cabinet (not sure of the requirements but it has a large fan built in it is also 110), I have a small 110V oven that I use for powder coating, I just got a 75000 btu Modine Natural Gas Heater that has a 115V fan motor (over kill...YES). For the future I know that I can't fit that much more in my garage but I was hoping to pick up a bench mill or a Linley Jig Bore, the one's that I have been looking at are all 110V, then there will also be the occasional 14" Dewalt Chop saw, mitre saws, tables saw, etc. etc. I also run air tools, but my compressor is in the basement and is only 110V, that for sure one day I would like to have a 6.5 hp 80 gallon monster! I know that it is a small space but I love to do work!

OK, I'll leave most of that to folks who are more familiar with those particular tools. But it's clear that MOST of them are 120V, as opposed to the 240V one might "normally" expect for fixed equipment. That is a two-edged sword. Each of those devices will draw approximately twice the current at 120V as they (or an otherwise equivalent device) would at 240V. That in turn ups the wire sizes needed to feed each device; and if the runs are long, it makes voltage drop a bigger issue, sooner.

It is an attached garage. I think that the sub panel would be the way to go that way all the circuits in the garage can be controlled by that sub panel. My current plans are to have 4-5 separate circuits.

I don't think that's nearly enough. Given the "laundry list" of rather heavy-duty 120V tools (many/most of them motor-driven) you described above, it is not unreasonable to assume a dedicated circuit for each of them, even if you MIGHT be able to "double up" (or even "triple up") some of them in a pinch.

In addition...

1 20A for the receptacles in the workshop. Which would include the heater and blast cabinet or lathe or jog bore or anything I plugged in. I don't see myself running a bunch of equipment at one time in there although it could happen.

Figure AT LEAST two 20A circuits for your general-purpose 120V outlets, plus additional dedicated circuits for any particularly power-hungry semi-permanent machines. I normally recommend double-gang boxes spaced around the work area at 6-8 foot intervals, with the two duplexes in each of those boxes fed from a different circuit. That puts BOTH 20A circuits within easy reach, no matter where you're working. In a shop as small as yours, one box centered on each wall, plus a couple more in the immediate vicinity of your workbench, will likely suffice. The heater should get its own circuit on general principles, even tho' it probably doesn't draw all that much; it definitely ought to have a dedicated emergency shut-off switch. The blast cabinet may or may not need a dedicated circuit, depending on its draw.

1 20A for all the receptacles on the garage side. Including the garage door opener, TV (hopefully), ceiling fan, computer, running hand tool, etc.

The same approach applies here: Two 20A circuits just for the "general purpose" outlets. The GDO(s) should NOT be on these same circuits. Ideally, it/they should have a dedicated circuit, with the GDO hardwired to an adjacent junction box so that you don't need to use GFCI protection (with which motor loads sometimes balk at, and vice versa).

1 to 2 depending on what I need, 15A circuit for lighting, which will most likely be 2-3 exterior fixtures and 3 to 5 interior fluorescent fixture.

Two 15A circuits for the lighting, at minimum. Part of the reason for this is to ensure that you won't be left completely in the dark if one breaker trips (or must be shut down for maintenance). You MIGHT be OK combining the shop & garage for this purpose; but it's likely better to keep them segregated. The exterior lights can be tacked on to either, as long as they aren't huge loads.

1 220V for a compressor in the basement

OK, but that circuit will need to be PROPERLY sized for the particular compressor you choose.

1 220V for a welder in the garage

Ditto.

The wish list is endless! Realistically speaking, I think I pretty well stated what I think I am going to have in the garage eventually above. Thankfully I am very limited with space so I really have thought through the equipment that I would like to have in there, really utilizing the space!

Roger that. But even so, NOW (or rather, while you have the walls open) is the time to make provision for EVERYTHING which you can reasonably foresee adding over the next few years.

As far as current set up for electrical. I have 100 amp service. I figured I could just post a picture to make it easier.

Main panel is full a bunch of space on the sub panel! Sorry about the crappy phone pic!

Wow.

Now THAT might be a problem -- or at the least, it is just begging to be cleaned up, big time!

With all the "stuff" you plan to install, 100A is not all that much to run it PLUS the whole house. You might consider contacting your local PoCo, to see what it would take for them to upgrade your service to ~200A. Odds are they won't blink, as 200A is pretty much considered "normal default" these days; but you will need to hire a contractor to do all the stuff downstream of the meter pan, and provide (i.e., "pay for") the parts/materials for the new meter pan, panel, & misc. parts.

I'd then consider converting that near-empty "sub-panel" to your main service panel, presuming it is suitable for such use (it appears to have a space for a "Main" breaker; so there is a good chance this will work), and dumping the old "main" panel entirely. Yes, this would be a bit of an investment. But it would provide you with a much better "base" for the rest of your plans, AND help ensure years/decades of trouble-free service. If you're really planning to stay in that house indefinitely, it would be worth it.

 
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andyhurz20

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Do I correctly gather from your various comments that the garage and the workshop are two separate spaces, possibly NOT in close proximity?

Nope they are right next to each other, but the way the electric has to go through the walls and up into the crawl space it is a much 40' longer run then going into the garage.



I might get to that later; right now, I'm trying to finish up this GJ "pass" and get some sleep.

I hear you, I should always get to sleep but my mind is always going. Thank you for taking the time to reply!


OK... Then as long as you're willing to rip all that out and start over -- which I REALLY think you ought to -- then go for at least one generously sized sub-panel, and be done with it. The reason I said "at least one" is, if the garage and workshop are indeed two completely separate spaces, it MIGHT be best to put a separate sub-panel in each.

I don't think I have to start over completely. I think I need to add. I am currently only working on the workshop. All the circuits right now are running to the existing sub panel. They will be very easy to route into the new sub panel, that I am for sure installing on the garage side when I get to it.


OK, I'll leave most of that to folks who are more familiar with those particular tools. But it's clear that MOST of them are 120V, as opposed to the 240V one might "normally" expect for fixed equipment. That is a two-edged sword. Each of those devices will draw approximately twice the current at 120V as they (or an otherwise equivalent device) would at 240V. That in turn ups the wire sizes needed to feed each device; and if the runs are long, it makes voltage drop a bigger issue, sooner.

No really "long" runs, but you are correct that most of these tools may need a dedicated circuit.


I don't think that's nearly enough. Given the "laundry list" of rather heavy-duty 120V tools (many/most of them motor-driven) you described above, it is not unreasonable to assume a dedicated circuit for each of them, even if you MIGHT be able to "double up" (or even "triple up") some of them in a pinch.

I agree see above.

In addition...



Figure AT LEAST two 20A circuits for your general-purpose 120V outlets, plus additional dedicated circuits for any particularly power-hungry semi-permanent machines. I normally recommend double-gang boxes spaced around the work area at 6-8 foot intervals, with the two duplexes in each of those boxes fed from a different circuit. That puts BOTH 20A circuits within easy reach, no matter where you're working. In a shop as small as yours, one box centered on each wall, plus a couple more in the immediate vicinity of your workbench, will likely suffice. The heater should get its own circuit on general principles, even tho' it probably doesn't draw all that much; it definitely ought to have a dedicated emergency shut-off switch. The blast cabinet may or may not need a dedicated circuit, depending on its draw.

I think 2 duplexes on every wall is a little overkill for my garage, but a single duplex is definitely need. Thank you for the advice, I am going to add another duplex on the 4th wall. I have already put a dedicated switch for the heater but since there is not that much draw from it I combined it with one of the circuits. I think for me 2 circuits will be sufficient for the amount of equipment just in the workshop. I think the heater and lathe should be on one and the blast cabinet and drill press/jig bore should be on another. I cannot imagine more than that being run at the same time in such a small space.


The same approach applies here: Two 20A circuits just for the "general purpose" outlets. The GDO(s) should NOT be on these same circuits. Ideally, it/they should have a dedicated circuit, with the GDO hardwired to an adjacent junction box so that you don't need to use GFCI protection (with which motor loads sometimes balk at, and vice versa).

I will put a dedicated circuit for the GDO when I get to the garage side!


Two 15A circuits for the lighting, at minimum. Part of the reason for this is to ensure that you won't be left completely in the dark if one breaker trips (or must be shut down for maintenance). You MIGHT be OK combining the shop & garage for this purpose; but it's likely better to keep them segregated. The exterior lights can be tacked on to either, as long as they aren't huge loads.

Noted, I was planning on doing 2 circuits for the lights in the garage and tacking the garage door exterior light onto one, and the workshop side door onto another.


OK, but that circuit will need to be PROPERLY sized for the particular compressor you choose.



Ditto.

I will have the sub panel there so I can cross that bridge when I get there with the compressor and welder.


Roger that. But even so, NOW (or rather, while you have the walls open) is the time to make provision for EVERYTHING which you can reasonably foresee adding over the next few years.

Copy that!


Wow.

Now THAT might be a problem -- or at the least, it is just begging to be cleaned up, big time!

With all the "stuff" you plan to install, 100A is not all that much to run it PLUS the whole house. You might consider contacting your local PoCo, to see what it would take for them to upgrade your service to ~200A. Odds are they won't blink, as 200A is pretty much considered "normal default" these days; but you will need to hire a contractor to do all the stuff downstream of the meter pan, and provide (i.e., "pay for") the parts/materials for the new meter pan, panel, & misc. parts.

I'd then consider converting that near-empty "sub-panel" to your main service panel, presuming it is suitable for such use (it appears to have a space for a "Main" breaker; so there is a good chance this will work), and dumping the old "main" panel entirely. Yes, this would be a bit of an investment. But it would provide you with a much better "base" for the rest of your plans, AND help ensure years/decades of trouble-free service. If you're really planning to stay in that house indefinitely, it would be worth it.


My wife and I bought this house expecting to live in it for the next 30 years. We love the house and the neighborhood. So, I can almost guarantee that I will be adding 200A service in the future! I agree the way to go is to have my sub become my main or just redo it all together when I get the 200A service installed. For right now though I am going to setup everything that I have in the garage so that I can be prepared when this happens. I may have to be careful about how much I run in the summer especially with the A/C running in the house.

Thank you again for taking the time to comment I really appreciate it!:thumbup:
 

volleyball

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Hope an inspector never sees your work. It is wrong on so many levels.
I'd open up the garage wall to run a proper feed wire. You can rip plywood to cover the hole.
You can have 2 15a single breakers in the panel that feeds the 10 gauge wire to at least not burn down the place.

Bite the bullet and run maybe 6 gauge to a sub panel. That way you can finish the workshop wiring and sheetrock it once.
At the main panel leave some extra wire as you will be upgrading to 200A and a new panel and you won't have to go through a junction box to extend the wiring.
 
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volleyball

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The 6 is for the sub panel power. I think that will be enough but up to the OP. The extra length is for when the main gets replaced, you don't have to splice in new wire.
There is enough space in existing sub to run a bunch of wires to the workspace. The issue is convenience. If you are in the shop and you pop a breaker, you don't have to go back in the house. Plus one breaker shuts off all shop power.
 
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andyhurz20

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Hope an inspector never sees your work. It is wrong on so many levels.

Although I appreciate you taking the time to read this thread and comment. This is not really very helpful. Could you please elaborate?

I'd open up the garage wall to run a proper feed wire. You can rip plywood to cover the hole.

The workshop is attached to the garage. I am currently trying to finish up the workshop and get all of the wiring done. When I complete this I will start on the garage side. When those walls are open I will install a sub panel and I will have plenty of slack to route all the circuits I am installing right now to the sub panel.

You can have 2 15a single breakers in the panel that feeds the 10 gauge wire to at least not burn down the place.

This was one of the reasons I ran a 10-3 rather than a 10-2. Si I could run one set of wires but split it into 2 circuits, I just have to run it to a 2 pole 20A breaker (or 2 20A breakers?) I believe. The rest of the wiring past the 10 gauge, is 12 gauge so I can run 20A breakers. The 14 gauge is a separate circuit on a 15A breaker and is just for the lighting.

Bite the bullet and run maybe 6 gauge to a sub panel. That way you can finish the workshop wiring and sheetrock it once.
At the main panel leave some extra wire as you will be upgrading to 200A and a new panel and you won't have to go through a junction box to extend the wiring.

Thanks, noted, all the wires currently will run past the future sub panel to the main. It will be easy to terminate them in the new sub!

The 6 is for the sub panel power. I think that will be enough but up to the OP. The extra length is for when the main gets replaced, you don't have to splice in new wire.
There is enough space in existing sub to run a bunch of wires to the workspace. The issue is convenience. If you are in the shop and you pop a breaker, you don't have to go back in the house. Plus one breaker shuts off all shop power.

Convinience is key. I don't want to have to go through the house into the basement to flip a breaker. When I have read some other post, people have been saying run 2-2-2-4, aluminum wire to the sub panel. It will only be a 10' run to the sub, so it shouldn't be a big difference in cost.
 

volleyball

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Bite the bullet and open the garage walls now to do a proper wiring run. You can rip some 1/8th panels to cover the opening if you must have it covered. I could leave it open.
You then have the proper wire to feed the sub panel and you can run the wires in the shop in one shot.
I was thinking the attached workshop meant it shared a common wall but was on the side or behind the garage. Is it really just 1 space?
 
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andyhurz20

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Bite the bullet and open the garage walls now to do a proper wiring run. You can rip some 1/8th panels to cover the opening if you must have it covered. I could leave it open.
You then have the proper wire to feed the sub panel and you can run the wires in the shop in one shot.
I was thinking the attached workshop meant it shared a common wall but was on the side or behind the garage. Is it really just 1 space?

This is the best way that I could show what I'm working with. I put a CAD drawing together and I got some original pictures and what I'm working one right now. Hope this helps.

1625727_10101734630792871_1417327705_n.jpg


https://scontent-b-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/1546209_10101734630787881_993547084_n.jpg

When we moved in.
https://scontent-b-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/384375_10101210944913571_86137242_n.jpg

Opening up the wall.
https://scontent-b-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/r270/1609677_10101722796733421_2123281233_n.jpg

Prior to removing everything.
https://scontent-b-iad.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1/r270/1010083_10101722796947991_1944208547_n.jpg
 

volleyball

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How did you get my picture?
So the workshop was an addition at some point?
And somewhere before the step in the garage backs onto your main panel?
So you could put conduit under the stairs into the workshop?
With the outside future light, where would you like to switch it? The garage or in the house?
 
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andyhurz20

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How did you get my picture?

I don't understand the question?

So the workshop was an addition at some point?

Yes, the workshop was added on by the PO

And somewhere before the step in the garage backs onto your main panel?

Nope, I the first actually picture looking into the garage, the main panel is almost directly to your left in the basement.

So you could put conduit under the stairs into the workshop?

Right now it is coming through the wall, basically where the curb is on the left, going straight up the wall into the crawl space, and down the walls in the workshop.

With the outside future light, where would you like to switch it? The garage or in the house?

I am going to put a bunch of switches just to the left of the door going into the house, where the current GDO switch is. This will control all the lighting in the garage. I also am going to mount the thermostat in that general vicinity.

Thanks!
 

volleyball

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I was given over a dozen out of date gray logo T's that I wear for projects, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, and the same flat a$$, I bet some would think thats me.

Excellent drawing.

My plan would be to run conduit from the doorway around the room. It would be in the upper half. That is because I would put the sub in the garage behind the open door.
I would also have at least 1 duplex on the side walls and put one in the garage right of the door. The conduit will ease changes as any workshop will experience as time goes by.
In the conduit run, I'd put some 4" boxes with a blank plate and enough extra wire to splice into.
Unless you plan on a 4' ceiling light, I would have two fixtures. That way you won't shadow your work.
 
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andyhurz20

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I was given over a dozen out of date gray logo T's that I wear for projects, sometimes 3 or 4 a day, and the same flat a$$, I bet some would think thats me.

So you are extermely good looking too?

Excellent drawing.

Thank you, I am pretty proficient with CAD.

My plan would be to run conduit from the doorway around the room. It would be in the upper half. That is because I would put the sub in the garage behind the open door.
I would also have at least 1 duplex on the side walls and put one in the garage right of the door. The conduit will ease changes as any workshop will experience as time goes by.
In the conduit run, I'd put some 4" boxes with a blank plate and enough extra wire to splice into.

As you can see in the second to last picture/ I still have a ton of work to do before I can get into the garage side. All of that stuff was put away very nicely before the renovation project! I am definitely taking your advice into consideration and before I start that part of the project I will be rereading this thread to make sure that I cover everything.

Unless you plan on a 4' ceiling light, I would have two fixtures. That way you won't shadow your work.

I am actually planning on doing 4, 4' fluorescent light fixtures (preferably 3 or more T8 bulbs) in there. I need plenty of light since I am under the car most of the time!

Thanks again for the advice!
 

volleyball

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I meant for the workshop. 2 lights should be enough or 1 4' .The panel would be in the garage as well as 1 outlet as part of the workshop build. Then you have 1 circuit working while you are renovating the garage. Putting the panel behind the door means no real estate lost in the small workshop. You cannot put anything on that wall space anyways. And you won't have to reach over the lathe.
 
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andyhurz20

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I meant for the workshop. 2 lights should be enough or 1 4' .The panel would be in the garage as well as 1 outlet as part of the workshop build. Then you have 1 circuit working while you are renovating the garage. Putting the panel behind the door means no real estate lost in the small workshop. You cannot put anything on that wall space anyways. And you won't have to reach over the lathe.

I was thinking 1 4' and maybe another under the shelf I am going to put up. This would light directly on the lathe. In all honesty I think that I will have a much better view of where I want the panel to go once I get all my stuff organized and I rip the plaster off the walls. I like the behind the door idea the only thing about that is that when you open the garage door it would be on the wall looking in. Plus that might be where the flat screen goes :thumbup:!
 
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