Stick Welder Resistance Heating

[jxxxoxxxe]

I'm working on a piece of machinery with stuck 1 1/4" x 8" long pin. There's only about 1/8" of the pin showing on each end, thus its about impossible to heat the entire pin....

Is there any way to use a stick welder with maybe a carbon arc rod to heat the pin to glowing red? I was thinking maybe attach the ground to the bottom of the pin, then touch the carbon arc rod to the top...???

I've searched Google endlessly and cant find much other than carbon arc torches....


Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology...

 

[Bobhdus]

Check out this video and look thru his others. He has a way to to what your wanting to do. He calls it his metal melter.

 

[zkling]

You don't want to dead short your welder it will harm the welder. Additionally you don't want to heat the pin, you want to heat the bore.

There is an attachment called a twin carbon arc torch which you can use to heat objects with a arc welder. But I'm not sure if that would help in your situation. Can you provide a picture?

 

[91bronc300]

I'm working on a piece of machinery with stuck 1 1/4" x 8" long pin. There's only about 1/8" of the pin showing on each end, thus its about impossible to heat the entire pin....

Is there any way to use a stick welder with maybe a carbon arc rod to heat the pin to glowing red? I was thinking maybe attach the ground to the bottom of the pin, then touch the carbon arc rod to the top...???

I've searched Google endlessly and cant find much other than carbon arc torches....


Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology...

Why not give it a shot and see what happens? So you don't have a gas torch to heat the pin but you do have some carbon arc rods? I have a carbon arc torch and some carbon rods but I've never tried using a carbon rod in the SMAW stinger to see what would happen. Give it a try and see is my suggestion.

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

Bobhdus, it's funny you posted that, I watched a lot of his videos last week, and that something that got me thinking about this....



I definitely don't want to short the welder out.... I want to try to heat the pin just to see if I can get it to release after cooling... There's not a good way to heat the bore...

I used to have a twin carbon arc torch, but can't find it....


I don't have any carbon arc rods, or I may try it....

I have an acetylene torch, but there not much exposed pin to heat....

The metal melted in the above video is about exactly what I want to do, but my scale is a little bigger... I figured someone had tried it before....

 

[weldtoride]

I've used a carbon arc, and carbon arc typically has 2 carbon rods with the arc between them, see page 26 and following below:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/imt545.pdf

It may not work any better than a torch for your situation.

I think what you might be getting at is: A common use for stick power supplies back in the day was to thaw frozen pipes in a manner similar to what you described, passing a high amp current thru the pipe and it will heat to the thaw point in between the lead connection points. However, I can't speak to using this method to heating to the red point like you describe. My first Miller bought back in the '70s had a section in the manual describing how to thaw pipe. Search pipe thawing over on Miller's site, there's plenty of info there on the topic in their forums. You need a power supply with a pretty good duty cycle for pipe. .

 

[Bobhdus]

Weld a washer to the section of rod that's sticking out, then a nut to that, and try to break it free by twisting it and pulling at the same time. The initial heat from a decent sized weld on the washer (or plate with the 1-1/4" hole in it) should be enough to break it loose.

 

[BD1]

You could try a hammer drill with a blunt chisel bit. The impact hammer force might do it.

 

[gtermini]

I've heated many a item by shorting out the welder. It works well, but I'd only do it with an old AC coffin buzz box. Mind the duty cycle when heating, no more than maybe 30-45 sec of short per 5 min of welder on time. I think it works better than torch heat on bolts and like sized items.

Greyson

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

I think what you might be getting at is: A common use for stick power supplies back in the day was to thaw frozen pipes in a manner similar to what you described, passing a high amp current thru the pipe and it will heat to the thaw point in between the lead connection points. However, I can't speak to using this method to heating to the red point like you describe. My first Miller bought back in the '70s had a section in the manual describing how to thaw pipe. Search pipe thawing over on Miller's site, there's plenty of info there on the topic in their forums. You need a power supply with a pretty good duty cycle for pipe. .

This sounds more like what Im talking about. I saw some mentions of pipe thawing while I was doing my search....

I've heated many a item by shorting out the welder. It works well, but I'd only do it with an old AC coffin buzz box. Mind the duty cycle when heating, no more than maybe 30-45 sec of short per 5 min of welder on time. I think it works better than torch heat on bolts and like sized items.

Greyson

care to share your technique? amps? electrode?

 

[Bobhdus]

Yeah, but 1-1/4" diameter by 8" long is a pretty good sized rod. I doubt your going to heat it up much with a stick welder, unless you actually weld to it. I've used bearing heaters that use resistance and used liquid nitrogen to shrink shafts... In this particular situation, easiest method I've ever used other than driving thru with impact as already mentioned, or oxy acetylene is by welding something to exposed portion, breaking it loose and twist/ pull at same time. But it's hard to know about this without pics and more details. Good luck!

 

[Ruger_556]

Heating the pin isn't going to help... Go get a real hammer like a 16 lb or above and go at it.

 

[Ruger_556]

One thing I've done is weld a nut on the end of the pin and use an impact to spin the pin. It'll free it up and make it easier to drive out.

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

Yeah, but 1-1/4" diameter by 8" long is a pretty good sized rod. I doubt your going to heat it up much with a stick welder, unless you actually weld to it. I've used bearing heaters that use resistance and used liquid nitrogen to shrink shafts... In this particular situation, easiest method I've ever used other than driving thru with impact as already mentioned, or oxy acetylene is by welding something to exposed portion, breaking it loose and twist/ pull at same time. But it's hard to know about this without pics and more details. Good luck!

In that metal melter video he says its 800 amps? I wonder how he calculated that? My Lincoln is just the standard 225. I have a feeling the amperage isnt measured the same way....

 

[91bronc300]

In that metal melter video he says its 800 amps? I wonder how he calculated that? My Lincoln is just the standard 225. I have a feeling the amperage isnt measured the same way....

It's measured the same way, there's no changing the laws of physics. Spot welders just work at much lower voltages than stick welders. General rule, spot welders are around 3 volts, stick welders around 40 (while welding).

 

[sberry]

You can short an AC buzzer out at 70A continuous.

 

[trainer]

You can short an AC buzzer out at 70A continuous.

My old Lincoln AC-180-s has a circle around the 70 on the selector. The manual says to use that for thawing pipes.
Apparently that setting has something special that allows you to turn it on and off with the main power switch without causing damage.

 

[offroadsteve]

Bunch of folks have mentioned two things here that are true:

1. I would not be concerned about shorting the welder as long as you are careful with the duty cycle, which will be listed in the manual. A stick or TIG welder is, by design, a "constant current" device, so its always going to output the same current, shorted or welding with an arc. That being said - Most welders are not designed to run at high output continuously. Like sberry said, a Lincoln AC 225 buzzbox is rated at 225 amps output, but at like a 20% duty cycle (1 minute on, 4 minutes off), but at only 70 amps it will go all day long.

2 - Perhaps more importantly - heating the pin isn't going to help. Metal expands as its gets hot, so heating the pin is going to make your problem worse. You need to heat whatever the pin is stuck in, or use one of the other methods described here.

 

[TLCObsession]

Welding the nut on with a bit of overkill in heat may help break it loose once it cools. One trick I learned is that if you get it hot, apply some paraffin and it will wick into the spaces between the pin and the sleeve. The impact will often break it loose after it has cooled.

 

[joe49]

#1 Heating the pin will work. I don't understand how this simple process is so misunderstood. Heat with a torch or as you wish with a welder, and allow to cool. But better than that is to do it 3 times as the pin will shrink each time. #2 Since I have a Slice I will use it as it is faster.

[/URL] And a video.

 

[Bobhdus]

Bunch of folks have mentioned two things here that are true:



1. I would not be concerned about shorting the welder as long as you are careful with the duty cycle, which will be listed in the manual. A stick or TIG welder is, by design, a "constant current" device, so its always going to output the same current, shorted or welding with an arc. That being said - Most welders are not designed to run at high output continuously. Like sberry said, a Lincoln AC 225 buzzbox is rated at 225 amps output, but at like a 20% duty cycle (1 minute on, 4 minutes off), but at only 70 amps it will go all day long.



2 - Perhaps more importantly - heating the pin isn't going to help. Metal expands as its gets hot, so heating the pin is going to make your problem worse. You need to heat whatever the pin is stuck in, or use one of the other methods described here.

Heating the pin will definitely work. Weld the washer onto the end, then a big nut onto that. Yes it will expand a bit but once it loses it's heat to the outer portion it will shrink. The movement itself breaks it loose. There's still going to be a tight fit which is why you need to twist and pull at same time after welding something onto the end. I've done this hundreds of times as Maintenance mechanic in a factory full of shafts, pins, conveyors dies, etc...

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

I looked on my welder today, and it does have a circle around the 75 amp setting....


Now, what type of electrode should be used when attempting this?


How large of a piece of steel will the 75 amp setting actually heat?




Lets just forget about the pin, I got it out........




I'm strictly interested in heating something using the welder...

 

[trainer]

I looked on my welder today, and it does have a circle around the 75 amp setting....


Now, what type of electrode should be used when attempting this?


How large of a piece of steel will the 75 amp setting actually heat?




Lets just forget about the pin, I got it out........




I'm strictly interested in heating something using the welder...

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im232.pdf
Here's the manual for my welder. Keep in mind that it is from 1970 and the safety precautions are a bit more practical than you would see today, ie, "the electrode should be used for welding and not for lighting cigarettes".


I dont think it would matter what electrode you used, or if you use one at all.

 

[gtermini]

I looked on my welder today, and it does have a circle around the 75 amp setting....


Now, what type of electrode should be used when attempting this?





I'm strictly interested in heating something using the welder...

I use either a copper coated carbon for an AirArc or a 6" piece of 3/8" or so brass or copper rod. Just stick it to the thing you want heated and wait.

Greyson

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Look into Kroil, a industrial grade penetrating oil, made by Kano Laboratories. They have been on business a long time, I've been using it since the '60's, and it has always worked.

 

[jxxxoxxxe]

I use either a copper coated carbon for an AirArc or a 6" piece of 3/8" or so brass or copper rod. Just stick it to the thing you want heated and wait.

Greyson

Thanks, I'm gonna try it on something soon....

Look into Kroil, a industrial grade penetrating oil, made by Kano Laboratories. They have been on business a long time, I've been using it since the '60's, and it has always worked.

A little off topic, but I do have some kroil , but I use a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF, works great.....

 

[theknurl]

thermal lance.......melt the sucker out

http://www.thermolance.com/Thermolance_Oxygen_Lance/thermolance_oxygen_lance.htm

 

[Heavy tech]

The best way I have found to get out stuck pins is to blow the centre out of them. Be it with a oxy torch, an ArcAir gouger, or best of all, the ArcAir Slice torch. Have never seen this not work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gtermini]

The best way I have found to get out stuck pins is to blow the centre out of them. Be it with a oxy torch, an ArcAir gouger, or best of all, the ArcAir Slice torch. Have never seen this not work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pin Lancers are the ****!!!

Holy hell do they blow the sparks back in your face, though. Nothing like rolling up and blowing a stuck pin out in 5 min and making a sweet $250 after a somebody has ripped their hair out trying to beat it out.

Greyson

 

[Bobhdus]

Has the OP managed to get it out?

 

[Worsedog]

Has the OP managed to get it out?

On the 5th, post #22

 

[Bobhdus]

Thanks!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Video Demonstration of The Carbon Arc Torch

I use this to braze gas tanks, thin metal or heat up those hard to get off bolts.
It is hooked up to my Lincoln 225 AC Welder