Steel Prices. How are they calculated?

[HMCFab9]

How is the price calculated on new steel?
Usually when I go to my steel supplier I just get whatever I need, but sometimes angle iron would work in place of square tubing.
Is it by the pound, by the shape, or how is that figured? Angle iron would probably be cheaper to produce versus tube which has to be welded. ??
The last time I bought steel, the guy said "you sure you need that, it's going to be considerably more expensive".
(it was round tube similar to DOM, but wasn't DOM) Was it more expensive because it was thicker tube & more weight, or is it just more expensive for whatever reason?

Also, what about cutoffs / drop? Is that all by the pound, or are there different prices for that too?
Is buying drop less expensive? Meaning is 3 feet of drop angle iron cheaper that buying the same material in 20' lengths.
(if you might use the rest of that 20' sometime anyway)
Is it cheaper to buy drop by the pound versus by 20' lengths if the prices are figured differently?
I know there are a lot of fabricators / steel suppliers here. I'm sure some of you know the answer. Thanks.

 

[astroracer]

It's usually by the pound but, as you have figured out, the quality of the steel also effects the price. High quality means more money...

 

[readhead]

I can only speak for our suppliers but here goes. Flat bar, angle,channel and beams are about the same. Pipe and tubing is more and when you get into specilaty tubing and alloy's it goes up more. 1/8 and 3/16 flat bar is more expensive than 1/4 because it is sheared stock. All of this material is sold by the pound. Drops can be all over the place. We sell ours by the pound. One retail shop here sells their material by the foot. Most people can relate better to length (like lumber) than weight.

 

[brownbagg]

everything here by weight

 

[WarnerSteel]

Here's how my shop works in Indianapolis. We are a small retail shop, selling to the public. How bigger shops work will differ.

Steel is generally sold by the pound, but we realize our customers don't know the weights of all the items, so we convert every item in our inventory to a per foot price (or sqft for sheet/plate). For example, if I tell my customers that 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle is $.75 per pound, they have no idea how much a 10' piece would cost. If I tell them it is $2.40 per foot, most can easily figure out that 10' = $24.00.

You are correct, items like angles and channels have a lower price per pound than round and square tube. DOM is even more expensive than the welded tubes.

Drops - we operate out of an 8000 sqft building that we have divided into two halves. One side houses all our new full length material and our equipment (saws, shear & brake). If a customer wants their order cut to size, we only pull from the new lengths. If there is material left over that they didn't need, the drop is placed on the opposite side of the building. Our drops could range from 1' long to 23' long. We keep the drops very organized and allow customers to come in and pick out their own pieces. If they take the drops "as is", with no cuts, they place them on the scales and we sell it by the pound. They can place angles, channels, flats, tubing, sheet, etc on the scale at one time. We sell the steel drops for $.60 per pound. An average price for our steel when cut or full lengths is $.90 per pound, so buying drops is a cheaper route to go.

For our customers, buying drops versus having us cut it to size depends on if they'll ever use any of the leftovers they bought extra as a drop. For example, if they only need 2 pc-2' and the only drop is 12' long AND they don't think they'll ever use the leftover 8', it's cheaper to have us cut it to size.

Drops is our bread and butter and is what draws customers to our shop. We are the only shop in the Indianapolis area thats sells drops and caters to the retail public. We sell around 3000# of drops each day.

I kinda rambled, but hope this helps.
Mike Warner

 

[HMCFab9]

Thanks for the replies so far, very helpful.
What I'm mainly trying to find out is say you need 4' of angle / square / round (whatever), is that 4' cheaper in the drop pile than if you bought a 20' piece. (is that 4' cheaper per foot buying drop because it's drop & sold by the pound versus buying that 20' piece)
I'd probably end up using the rest of the material sometime anyway, but is the drop cheaper because it's in the drop pile, or doesn't it make any difference?
If it's all sold by the pound whether it's in 20' (stock uncut) lengths or drop, it probably doesn't make much difference which way I buy it. Correct? (No cutting charges, bought in whatever lenghth the supplier has)
Thanks

 

[Mike_C]

The steel yard I go to charges by weight, and had cut charges. If you buy a full length sick, you get one cut for free.

If you only need a short piece, finding a drop is cheaper since you do not need to pay to have it cut.

 

[WarnerSteel]

I'm going to use 3" channel as my example:

If you walked in my shop and said I need 1 pc-4' of 3" channel, we would sell it to you for $14.00 plus tax. ($3.50 per foot)

If you walked in and went to the drop section and found a 4' piece of 3" channel and put it on the scales, we would sell you that piece for $9.84 plus tax. (4.1#/ft x 4' = 16.4 pounds. 16.4pounds x $.60 = $9.84)

Mike

 

[alan camby]

Mike, I thought you would be in Arizona by now.

 

[kwb]

For suppliers I work with -
HSS is invoiced by the foot.
Structural Shapes are by the LB
Sheet/plate will go either way depending on which one
Bigger orders = lower prices

Averages out to about $.60/lb for most of my orders but stuff like 1" square tube will tend to be more like $.90/lb and C6x10.5 will be as cheap as $.40/lb

All assumes that you take stocked lengths of 20'

Not a big customer but last year I think my average was a bit less than a ton a month.

 

[WarnerSteel]

Mike, I thought you would be in Arizona by now.

Hey Alan! I'm traveling back and forth right now. In Indy for 3 or 4 weeks, then AZ for a week or two. Wife and I go out to help care for her 80something parents. They don't need full time help, so we go out and stock up on groceries, laundry, put some meals in the freezer, etc. They are sharp mentally, but bodies are letting them down. We'll probably be out there full time by the end of the year.

Good to hear from you, hope all is well.

Mike

 

[alan camby]

Mike,
all is well with me. Moved down south, 20 miles or so from you, on 14 acres.

I have always wondered how the scrap yard make money. I just took down two large steel drain culverts to kroots. Steel was rusted and falling apart. They weighted 2,500lbs together and I got a check for $289. Are they really getting all that much more out of the stuff?

If anyone lives around Indy, Warner is the place to go for the hobbyist. I got tired really quick of felling like a nobody at the other places picking up one stick of steel.
also Can't beat the drop sales at Warner.
I follow them on Facebook to stay in the know.

 

[bsaint]

I also think the smaller the sheet the more expensive per pound. Like a lot of my customers like to buy the biggest sheet that will fit on their laser (usually 6x12). Or its because they don't have to change out the sheet so much. I don't know lol.

 

[HMCFab9]

Thanks for the explanations guys! Especially Mike / WarnerSteel.
Thank you for taking the time to post the prices of what channel would cost as an explanation. That makes a lot of sense.
Now I have to stop by my local steel supply place to see if they have what I need.

 

[BD1]

Pal Steel Company
(262) 495-4453 palsteel.net
414 S 3rd St, Palmyra, WI 53156
Cross Streets: Between W Bluff St and W Wilson St

I never went here but neighbor has and was happy with pricing. I don't know how close you are to Palmyra.
Shop buys steel by the ton. Any configuration same price.

 

[NUTTSGT]

The place I tend to buy my steel from sells it buy the foot. They look it up on the computer (some old TRS-80 looking thing) and break out the calculator. Whether or not they figure the weight or buy the foot I don't know.

Mike, you have a nice little business going on there, I wish there was a place like that around here.

 

[alan camby]

The company I used to work for bought quite a bit of steel from Kroot corp. They gave us all little books that show steel weights per foot. I use it all the time. Helps you estimate how much a project will weight before you build it.
I know Kroot and another local steel yard here sell by weight, and they don't usually weigh the new steel, they just calculate the weight with one of these books or use the computer.

 

[KerryH]

Here's how my shop works in Indianapolis. We are a small retail shop, selling to the public. How bigger shops work will differ.

Steel is generally sold by the pound, but we realize our customers don't know the weights of all the items, so we convert every item in our inventory to a per foot price (or sqft for sheet/plate). For example, if I tell my customers that 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle is $.75 per pound, they have no idea how much a 10' piece would cost. If I tell them it is $2.40 per foot, most can easily figure out that 10' = $24.00.

You are correct, items like angles and channels have a lower price per pound than round and square tube. DOM is even more expensive than the welded tubes.

Drops - we operate out of an 8000 sqft building that we have divided into two halves. One side houses all our new full length material and our equipment (saws, shear & brake). If a customer wants their order cut to size, we only pull from the new lengths. If there is material left over that they didn't need, the drop is placed on the opposite side of the building. Our drops could range from 1' long to 23' long. We keep the drops very organized and allow customers to come in and pick out their own pieces. If they take the drops "as is", with no cuts, they place them on the scales and we sell it by the pound. They can place angles, channels, flats, tubing, sheet, etc on the scale at one time. We sell the steel drops for $.60 per pound. An average price for our steel when cut or full lengths is $.90 per pound, so buying drops is a cheaper route to go.

For our customers, buying drops versus having us cut it to size depends on if they'll ever use any of the leftovers they bought extra as a drop. For example, if they only need 2 pc-2' and the only drop is 12' long AND they don't think they'll ever use the leftover 8', it's cheaper to have us cut it to size.

Drops is our bread and butter and is what draws customers to our shop. We are the only shop in the Indianapolis area thats sells drops and caters to the retail public. We sell around 3000# of drops each day.

I kinda rambled, but hope this helps.
Mike Warner

Mike you run my dream metal supply house. I have 0 resources in my area that I know of where I can buy anything other than brand new full sticks/sheets of metal. It would be great to be able to buy drops for small projects around the shop.

 

[dr_clyde]

I buy a lot of steel, and it varies in price by what I'm buying, but its all by the pound. Obviously things that cost more to make cost me more. DOM more than EW, 316 SS more than 304 SS, cold rolled more than hot rolled and so on. Generally, material suppliers have tiered price breaks, and it pays to buy in large quantities because you get a better price per pound.

The only metals I buy that are per piece are stainless sanitary pipe fittings. These cost like the dickens and are are priced higher because they are polished inside and outside, and are usually 316 SS.

For a homeowner/hobby guy, definetly inquire about drops. Usually can be had more inexpensively than a piece cut from a full bar. I usually will end up using the leftovers, so it's easier for me to buy full bars to begin with.

 

[mechan]

Availability of material in the area or the availability of the material you want in the shape or thickness can also greatly affect the cost. (e.g. It has proved cost advantageous for me to buy items made from 254 SMO or Titanium as opposed to 317L even though the stainless isn't really as high of metallurgy.)

I guess my point is there are a lot more variables than just straight up cost per weight or linear foot. If you are looking for certain shapes or thickness you may need to look into what is the appropriate type of metal for that application. I think if you look at metals such as the 6 to 7% Molybdenum steels you will see this is a very clear case for that.

The steel suppliers in my area usually charge a *good* premium for cuts and I am only aware of one that lets people purchase their drops. (They sell for scrap price which is great, but you have to go rummaging.)

 

[powrguy]

By the pound, here, for any cutoffs other than full sticks.

I buy the full lengths, and have a cordless 4 1/2" grinder to cut them to fit in my truck. I'm just a D-I-Y/Hobbyist, so I go through their cutoff racks, mostly. When I buy tubing or angle, I buy full lengths to have it on hand in my garage. They will cut anything to size, but the cut charges add up fast, so buying cutoffs, or full sticks is much more economical for me

 

[WarnerSteel]

I've never figured out why shops charge for cutting. The only time we charge (and its minimal), is if the customer wants something other than a 90deg cut.

I'm getting ready to cut a job this morning on 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4 angle.
Customer needs:
30 pc-26"
10 pc-25 3/4"

We take the total number of inches (in this case, 1037.5"), divide it by 12 (86.4'), round up to the nearest foot (87') and multiply that by its price per foot ($3.50/ft).

87' x $3.50/ft = $304.50 plus tax

If the customer came in and wanted 4 pc-20' and 1 pc-7', his price would still be $304.50 plus tax.

I know we're unique, but it works for us.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I've never figured out why shops charge for cutting. The only time we charge (and its minimal), is if the customer wants something other than a 90deg cut.



I know we're unique, but it works for us.

If you're selling around 3000 lbs a day and don't charge for cutting, I'd say you have very happy customers, that keep coming back.


I just wish I was local to your place.

 

[HMCFab9]

Thanks for all the input everybody!
Mike / WarnerSteel.... I wish you were closer... i'd be there buying all the time!
Sounds like you have great service & a good customer base.
There are several steel supply places within 20 miles of me, but one doesn't even want to sell to the general public anymore, even though they are a small place. (you'd think they'd cater to the DIY guy)

 

[readhead]

Most welding and fab shops will sell steel.

 

[Seiler]

Here's how my shop works in Indianapolis. We are a small retail shop, selling to the public. How bigger shops work will differ.

Steel is generally sold by the pound, but we realize our customers don't know the weights of all the items, so we convert every item in our inventory to a per foot price (or sqft for sheet/plate). For example, if I tell my customers that 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle is $.75 per pound, they have no idea how much a 10' piece would cost. If I tell them it is $2.40 per foot, most can easily figure out that 10' = $24.00.

You are correct, items like angles and channels have a lower price per pound than round and square tube. DOM is even more expensive than the welded tubes.

Drops - we operate out of an 8000 sqft building that we have divided into two halves. One side houses all our new full length material and our equipment (saws, shear & brake). If a customer wants their order cut to size, we only pull from the new lengths. If there is material left over that they didn't need, the drop is placed on the opposite side of the building. Our drops could range from 1' long to 23' long. We keep the drops very organized and allow customers to come in and pick out their own pieces. If they take the drops "as is", with no cuts, they place them on the scales and we sell it by the pound. They can place angles, channels, flats, tubing, sheet, etc on the scale at one time. We sell the steel drops for $.60 per pound. An average price for our steel when cut or full lengths is $.90 per pound, so buying drops is a cheaper route to go.

For our customers, buying drops versus having us cut it to size depends on if they'll ever use any of the leftovers they bought extra as a drop. For example, if they only need 2 pc-2' and the only drop is 12' long AND they don't think they'll ever use the leftover 8', it's cheaper to have us cut it to size.

Drops is our bread and butter and is what draws customers to our shop. We are the only shop in the Indianapolis area thats sells drops and caters to the retail public. We sell around 3000# of drops each day.

I kinda rambled, but hope this helps.
Mike Warner

This post makes me wish I lived in Indy! I would love to be a loyal customer to a business like yours. Trying to buy steel here in Colorado is such a pain. Do you ship?

If you're selling around 3000 lbs a day and don't charge for cutting, I'd say you have very happy customers, that keep coming back.


I just wish I was local to your place.

I also agree 100% with this post.

Scott

 

[WarnerSteel]

Seiler,

We don't get many requests to ship, but are willing if someone needs it.

Funny you mention Colorado. About 18 months ago, I received an email from a company in Longmont, CO. They needed a 24" length of 10 x 4 x 1/2 rect tube. I think I quoted something like $45.00 for the piece and Fedex wanted $60.00 to ship it. I ask they guy, "Surely you have someone local that could sell you a piece for cheaper than paying us to ship it?". He said he didn't, so we shipped it out the next day.

 

[PugetDude]

Here's a simple explanation of steel pricing;

Angles, Flat bar, channels, and smaller structural sections are all produced using a hot-rolled process, most from "mini-mills" using almost 100% (relatively cheap) scrap. The shapes come off the hot mill as finished flat product and don't require any secondary processing- they are ready to go to the consumer. Price per pound reflects the cost of primary production and distribution.

Hot-rolled plate also comes off a hot-rolled line, but the capital investment required to produce it is much higher. Most is produced from ingots which may have been shipped from abroad or produced domestically from new steel (higher cost) , scrap or a combination of the two. Price per pound reflects the cost of primary ingot production, secondary rolling and distribution.

Coil stock is produced by taking a heavy steel hot-rolled coil and subjecting it tofurther processing, i.e rolling it out to thinner and thinner dimensions, leveling, pickling/oiling, galvanizing, painting etc. Price per pound reflects the cost of primary ingot production, secondary rolling and re-coiling, final rolling, finishing and distribution

Welded Tubing and Pipe (rectangular and round) takes the rolled coil stock and runs it through a tube mill, where it is welded, finished, and cut-to-length. Price per pound reflects the cost of primary ingot production, hot-rolling, secondary rolling and re-coiling, tube forming, finishing and distribution

Every process along the way adds value and cost to the finished product.
Here's an example:
2x2 Tube cost a lot more than 2x2 hot-rolled angle because the angle is rolled at the mill and goes right to the retailer via normal distribution channels. The tubing goes from the hot mill to a cold-roll mill to reduce the thickness, then it is slit to width, rewound and transported to a tubing manufacturer, who unwinds it, feeds it into a tube mill, forms and welds it into tubing, cold-finishes the weld, straightens it as necessary, oils it, packages it for shipment and then sends it to the retailer. The steel stock might be sold several times between the mill, the cold mill, the cut/sllt, the tubing manufacturer and the retailer.

Add in galvanizing, honing, grinding, etc. and the price rises accordingly. nothing is free, every operation requires secondary handling and re-packaging.

Most steel retailers charge extra for cuts because of their investment in cutting and shearing machinery and the fact that it requires employees to do the work. Those costs have to be covered in some form or fashion- either on a per-cut basis or in the form of higher net prices. (Like "free" shipping on eBay)

This is a really simplified explanation, hope it helps.

 

[383 240z]

Around here there are 2 places I buy metal. Omslayers steel. Used to be run by a older married couple, great people. Full sticks were priced by the lb sold by the foot. Drop prices were based on how well he liked you. We bought a decent amount of steel and he liked me, so drops were priced pretty well. When they decided to retire and sell the place, everything is sold same price as new. everything is by the lb, and old rusty scrap that was laying outside, same price as the same weight in nice new steel. The other place is a little more laid back. They cost more on the hot rolled stuff. But the main reason I go there is they stock a fair amount of cold roll square and round. good prices on the CRS solid there. Way cheaper than buying on line and shipping. Great for my machine shop projects. Keith

 

[Seiler]

Seiler,

We don't get many requests to ship, but are willing if someone needs it.

Funny you mention Colorado. About 18 months ago, I received an email from a company in Longmont, CO. They needed a 24" length of 10 x 4 x 1/2 rect tube. I think I quoted something like $45.00 for the piece and Fedex wanted $60.00 to ship it. I ask they guy, "Surely you have someone local that could sell you a piece for cheaper than paying us to ship it?". He said he didn't, so we shipped it out the next day.

I was just kidding about the shipping. I do appreciate your honest reply though!

It honestly doesn't surprise me someone contacted you from here. It's like pulling teeth to find good customer service. I had to beg for someone to cut a 4'x8' sheet of 3/4" plate for me.

Scott

 

[brownbagg]

i bought a 24 ft of 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 11 ga tubing yesterday $66

 

[raddksn]

I've never figured out why shops charge for cutting. The only time we charge (and its minimal), is if the customer wants something other than a 90deg cut.

I'm getting ready to cut a job this morning on 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4 angle.
Customer needs:
30 pc-26"
10 pc-25 3/4"

We take the total number of inches (in this case, 1037.5"), divide it by 12 (86.4'), round up to the nearest foot (87') and multiply that by its price per foot ($3.50/ft).

87' x $3.50/ft = $304.50 plus tax

If the customer came in and wanted 4 pc-20' and 1 pc-7', his price would still be $304.50 plus tax.

I know we're unique, but it works for us.

Unique? That's effin awosome bet you have many happy and loyal return customers!!!!