Why I buy from Harbor Freight - No bashing!

[Harry Gerrard]

What do I like about shopping at harbor freight? When I get back in the car and can still smell the chinese rubber on my jacket. mmmmmm goood, thats gotta be good for ya.

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

Has it occurred to you that—if the middle class in this country gave its money to the middle class, instead of giving most of it to the rich, who hoard most of it and send the rest overseas—you'd be able to afford to pay those "high" made in the USA prices? That you'd have more money, your neighbor would have more money, that that money might be worth more? It's not like our economy isn't big enough to sustain its own manufacturing. It's not like there isn't enough wealth in the country to go around, that we need this highly stratified social structure to maintain order.

Everyone's always waiting for the politicians to save the economy for us. Like the rich and the powerful have any incentive to benefit anyone but the rich and the powerful. If the middle class wants to be saved, it needs to save itself.

The alternative was never no jobs, it was better jobs. Capitalism in its ideal form relies on educated consumers, because only educated consumers can make rational decisions in their own self-interest. Unfortunately, few are educated in any sense but the shortest-term, what-saves-me-money-right-now sense, so here we all are.

Not everyone is going to have a skilled job some day. Partly because we only need so many doctors and lawyers and engineers and technicians, partly because not everyone is cut out for that sort of thing. Used to be that a good work ethic would take you a long ways in a manufacturing job. Now retail and service jobs are about all that's left. What happens when those are all automated away or replaced with online commerce? Everyone without a college degree just starves and dies, I suppose.

That's a very specific view and does not consider a host of other factors. I'm not going to get into it b/c your post is political enough as it is.

 

[crewchief888]

if harbor frieght wasnt around...


just another empty storefront space in a run down strip mall...

 

[1982fxr]

i'm amazed this one is still going

 

[BDT/NWMN]

I don't know man, HF tools just don't make me smile. Some of their stuff like the terrible impact sockets just don't make sense to me. They cost more than Stanley and they're questionable at best. Their jack stands cost the same as Torin but you can get Torin at any major auto parts store. Not saying Torin is better in this case, but in terms of availability it's definitely more widespread. Maybe it's a geography thing. I live in the center of this map, don't want to drive to any of the red HFT flags for cheap ****.

Speaking of Torin jack stands: I was in Northern Tools about two years ago looking at Torin jack stands... The weld was splattered, the welded part was positioned crooked.... So dang ****** that I felt like a damn fool standing there looking at them...... I went over to Harbor Freight and purchased another pair of orange jack stands.... The ratcheting load binders at Northern Tool were the same way, crooked and ****** welds.... The ones I bought at Harbor Freight were just fine....... Some years back, I bought a transmission jack from Fleet Farm.. Some of the attachments were so crooked and mis welded that I refused to use the jack and called the manufacturer.... I had new attachments on my doorstep before noon the next day.... I bought a metric 3/4" drive socket set from Harbor Freight... The Rat-**** would not turn, so I removed the retainer ring to have a look.. The gear cogs on one side were nearly non existent, while the other side were like a razor.... I pictured a drunken Chinaman with a cookie cutter... Good thing I bought that set mainly for the sockets... I bought some USA Craftsman socket sets, some to give as Christmas stocking stuffers... Rat-Shits in the seven sets were so crappy that I would be ashamed to give them to anyone.. The sockets were useable.. 8" Harbor Freight grinder might be ok for a boat anchor, but rather clumsy.. It was not worth an extra trip to return it.


Bunch of Dime Stores selling dime store stuff..... Sometimes you find a gem, but there is so much **** that should be weeded out.... Buyer Beware

 

[48fordnut]

I'm 5 yrs into use of my HF 4 1/2 grinder. Just bought 4 on their 70% off sale for 3 bucks ea. No I'm not a pro, but it works every time I pick it up. Just saying.

 

[bcradio]

I'm 5 yrs into use of my HF 4 1/2 grinder. Just bought 4 on their 70% off sale for 3 bucks ea. No I'm not a pro, but it works every time I pick it up. Just saying.

What the heck? I have never even heard of them going that cheap... When does this happen?

 

[ADSR]

It's all about accessibility. It's easier for the masses to walk into their local HF than to try to flog down a tool truck. Never have to worry about the local HF running around the town when you need them most.

Personally that's one of the reasons why I like the Proto tools, I know my local Canadian tool store will have Proto's when I need them.

Where are you from? Ive never seen any proto tools in canadian tire.

 

[dankicksass]

My local Kubota dealer stocks Proto and Blackhawk. I don't know who makes the Kubota tool boxes but I'd strongly consider one for home if my Snap-On guy weren't so good to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jim C.]

The ONLY reason I ever go to HF is to buy Evapo Rust (which is made in the USA). That's it. For some reason I can't seem to find it in other local big box stores near me. It may in fact be in some of the other stores, but I just haven't found it.....yet. If I do find it elsewhere, then I'll probably stop going to HF all together. The "always on sale" coupons, free flashlights, tent sales, and other gimmicks designed to get me in there are not nearly enough to make me want to endure the ever present cheap smell of the place for any longer than I absolutely have to. As crazy as it sounds, the smell that hits you when you first walk in is really repulsive.

I guess it's nice to know that 11,000 people have low paying jobs in stores that smell bad. Unfortunately, even though the stores are located in the USA, I'm not going to buy tools made in china. I don't buy asian made tools from other stores either. I'm already bombarded with enough other asian made products that I can't avoid. Tools will certainly not be one of those products too. Sorry if I did take a little "bash" at HF, but the FACT of the matter is that my local HF has "that smell" to it. Between the smell and the low quality asian made tools, there's almost no reason for me to ever go in there.

Jim C.

 

[BlksnshN]

I own exactly 1 HF tool. A pneumatic angle drill. Needed it for one specific job and $30 was a lot easier to swallow than $300. Since that job it has sat in my box unused.

I am thinking of buying some of their shallow impact sockets and deep 1/2 chrome sockets. I'll rarely use them but I hate all the empty pegs on my trays. As they break, I'll replace them with Snap On.

 

[ibedayank]

would have never stepped foot in a harbor freight if Craftsman quality had stayed at the same level as my nearly 20 year old stuff or older. Why should I pay MORE for made in china then I paid for my USA made tools???

Due to 1/2 the sears closing in this area it is the same distance to a hf store then to a sears.. won't even get started on the mail in replacement times for craftsman...

 

[jwsia]

The "No Bashing" in the title didn't work too well

 

[wvrailroader]

I buy from Harbor Freight because I lost a lot of my tools and was left broke as a joke after a nasty divorce a few years back. I had to have tools to work on my vehicle and thank God for Harbor Freight. Some of the stuff is ****, but a lot of it helped me keep a vehicle going and make needed repairs around home.

I am getting back on my feet and slowly replacing some of the Harbor Freight stuff. I have always tried to buy American where I can, but the cost can be prohibitive when you are balancing utility bills, food, doctor bills, etc. on a very limited income. I sure will be the last to judge someone for buying Harbor Freight if that is all they can afford or it is a very limited use tool. I have been in their shoes.

 

[sammerdog]

I like made in the USA stuff, but Vietnamese women are hot.

 

[928'er]

Don't forget about the sales and payroll taxes they generate.

Walmart employes a hell of a lot more people, but it has been estimated that a single Walmart store costs you and me, the tax payers, approximately $900,000 per year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

 

[2oolhound]

America lost 5.7 million, or 33%, of its manufacturing jobs in the 2000s. http://www.industryweek.com/the-2000s It's easy to see why HF found 11,000 people desperate enough or was that "well suited" to work for them at minimum wages. Apparently industrial plant closures in Canada last year occurred about twice as much as in the USA.

All this and it's estimated that only about 15% of china's available work force has been put to work in the new factories. Working 6 days a week 10 hrs. a day with a big 5 day holiday each year they earn in one month more than their fathers earn annually on the farm. But it isn't these workers seeing the gold it's the chinese government who is not only taking these jobs, they are buying up all the natural resources and publicly traded corporations with the profits. That is where the difference between snap-on factory wages and chinese factory wages is going.

Big business has no loyalties or considerations for nations or citizens. It's down to the single citizen acting alone who has the power as a whole to slow this thing down. I'd bet cumulatively we could really throw a wrench in the spokes of the 1%er's and foreign governments if we all watched where we put our dollars.

I don't know about HF but Canadian Tire and Princess Auto have existed in Canada for 50 years or more so there should be lots of choices there that don't support this movement of wealth off shore.

 

[ibedayank]

last year here they opened a new olive garden 150 jobs available over 1600 people applied in a city with a population of 31,140. Is it not wonderfull to live in a town where the main jobs happened to be a GM and Asaturn car plants supplied the biggest part of jobs available. Now who is more at fault the people buying from hf or the ones buying imported cars?? Not only did those 2 plants close but several small places that supplied or hauled the parts they used.

 

[Conductor562]

^^Amen^^


Look, I'm not saying Harbor Freight doesn't serve a purpose, I'm not even saying they don't have a few gems. I have a few HF items including a floor jack, air compressor, blast cabinet, and impact torx sockets. If for whatever reason you shop at HF then more power to you. I see the logic in disenfranchised Craftsman guys who could not afford to step up to a pro brand shopping there as well as anyone else who can't afford or justify Snap-On, Mac, Proto, or SK prices, I really do and I mean no disrespect to you.

But, there is a big difference in shopping at HF because it's cheap and proclaiming what a wonderful company they are and how grateful we should be that they employ 11,500 people. That's where the story goes south for me. I realize HF is a product of the times in which we live and that love it or hate it, it isn't changing any time soon. But I just don't have it in me to give them a big gold star for peddling low quality **** with minimum wage employees. I just can't do it. I know, I know, if it weren't for the Harbor Freights of the world we'd all be paying Snap-On prices Yea, whatever. Back in the day before China manufactured the world there were many affordable, quality, American made tools. Mustang, Thorsen, Husky, etc. etc. etc. and if we were living under different circumstances there would be today. But again, we aren't and there isn't.

 

[DieselSaves]

Very well stated, Mr. Conductor.

 

[Boiler]

HF, Walmart, big box,....people talk about the jobs they bring. They are the bottom of the barrel jobs, and these businesses do nothing but decrease our buying power by lowering average income and local reinvestment. Makes me sick when people argue for them, justifying their actions against our economy by not supporting local just to "save" a buck today. It will cost you two tomorrow!

What a great pitch...they should put it on their website employment page: A job at Harbor Freight: better than no job!

Personally, I'm not even sure if that is true....

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Tonight I'll go home and hug my big box of Proto tools a little tighter.

You do know that a lot of those Proto tools in that tool box were made in other countries than the US, correct? Just checking to see if you're consistent or not in your hypocrisy.

Now as I see it, you have a bigger gripe about the wages that HF pays their employees, that the jobs they have are taking away from box stores or the tool trucks. And I understand your concerns. I don't agree with them however.

Professionals as yourself that rely on the tool trucks are not likely to shop at HF for regular use tools. So you're not in the HF demographic. But by that same token, the guy changing the blades on his lawn mower are not the target customer base for tool trucks. I don't think John Doe is going to be able to call Snap On and have them come out on a Sunday to sell him a 5/8" wrench and nothing else. Is that fair, or is that financial discrimination? You could argue that the tool trucks are being exclusionary to the point of discrimination. If you don't have the big bucks, then they won't talk to you. Sorry, just the way it is, and I understand that too. It's not worth their time and fuel to come out to sell that one wrench when they can go to a shop and sell a bunch of tools in one shop to multiple customers. It's common sense.

I can't buy a parts washer at Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, or any other location except a dedicated tool dealer, and in my area, that's Harbor Freight. The only other place that sells them is located 120 miles away and isn't open weekends. Again, that's not the right customer base. Ordering them online isn't going to help me when I need the tool or item. There is a case for the store's existence. Clearly they are filling a need. If they weren't successful, then they wouldn't be in business. Other companies are free to open their own stores. Wouldn't it be great to see Snap-On stores selling discounted tools? Get some competition going on? Cool!

But let's talk about wages. Low or minimum wages are here to stay. Retail is always going to have those starting jobs. Let's forget that it's Harbor Freight and change it to fast food. Why does McDonald's exist? Because they have cheap fast food. They pay their employees very poorly if you compare it to high end steak restaurants. By the logic you are using, then we should all be eating only at steak restaurants. If we choose to eat at McDonald's, then we're causing the problem.

Do you eat at McDonald's? Wendy's? Taco Bell? Do you only buy imported high end sodas at $10 a can or do you drink a $1 Pepsi?

You can see how this goes. If you eat at a McDonalds or drink a Pepsi or buy gas at Arco instead of Shell, then you're a hypocrite. But only by the logic yo u apply.

Personally, I don't care what you buy or from whom. It's an open market. Clearly Snap On and other brands don't care about serving the lower end tool market. If they did, they would, as simple as that. They have the choice and they choose not to. I am fine with that.

I won't chastise anyone for their choice in tools. Just like I won't yell at them for their choice in religion, sports teams, car brands or soda- well, okay, Mt. Dew is the best, but that's just me.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

HF, Walmart, big box,....people talk about the jobs they bring. They are the bottom of the barrel jobs, and these businesses do nothing but decrease our buying power by lowering average income and local reinvestment.

Answer me this- do you work on your own car or do you take it in to a shop to be worked on?

If you take it in to the dealer, then that's great! You're keeping those technicians employed and supporting the auto industry.

If you choose to repair it yourself- why are you being a hypocrite? You know better than to repair it yourself. You're denying work that should be done by those people in the dealerships or auto repair shops.

Now those are straw man arguments, both the one you proposed and the ones I've answered with. But it does show that unless you are willing to stand behind your words by never doing your own auto work, never cooking your own food, or cleaning your home, but hiring professionals to do every bit of this for you, then you're a hypocrite.

Let's be reasonable instead and just say different strokes for different folk. You do what you want and I won't think twice about it. When you decide to go after those bottom of the barrel jobs, then I have an issue with that since I've worked many of those positions.

Strange thing about bottom of the barrel jobs- Snap-On and Matco don't want hire teenagers just out of high school without any experience to drive their trucks.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Fair enough points. But by the same token, I can't give Snap-On a gold star for manufacturing tools at prices far above the norm, especially given their spotty service record and predatory truck sales reps.

They could manufacture the tools at a lower price, but choose not to. They could also pay the truck salesmen a higher rate, but choose not to.

So at best, they get a bronze star. They could do far better- but then again they could far worse and get a zinc star.

They serve their niche well. As does HF. To each their own.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

^^^i used to own an Arco station.

I do agree with your statement. Well done.

 

[Ruger_556]

You do know that a lot of those Proto tools in that tool box were made in other countries than the US, correct? Just checking to see if you're consistent or not in your hypocrisy.

Proto hand tools and boxes are all USA made so...

 

[SKAutomotive]

Proto hand tools and boxes are all USA made so...

Yeah, I was going to say...all my Proto stuff is USA...

 

[Southern]

The list of justifications for doing business at HF is ever expanding. People's need to explain themselves constantly is telling.

If you want to buy disposable import tools, knock yourself out. You don't need to explain it or justify it to everyone all the time.

 

[Bouchard93]

Snap-On employs 11,500 people whom they pay a living wage to manufacture some of the highest quality tools in the world.

Harbor Freight employs 11,000 people whom they pay minimum or near minimum wage to stock and ring up cheap *** tools manufactured by some Chinaman making $ 0.50 a day who could give a flying **** less about the quality of the product he's putting out.

I get what your saying, professional tools aren't feasible for everyone, hell, I own 4 or 5 HF items myself, but you can't tout them for employing people for dog **** wages to make the CEO mega rich while the employees flirt with poverty.

thats the way I see it. Given HF does have some good factors for DIY'ers like myself, but does sears,lowes,home depot etc. Quality , where its made, and prices drop to the same as HF? sure do. also as far as jobs in the USA from HF how many factory jobs are they providing? where other store like sears was (less by the day) offering minimum wage jobs for store works and better manufacturing jobs for others.

 

[SKAutomotive]

The list of justifications for doing business at HF is ever expanding. People's need to explain themselves constantly is telling.

If you want to buy disposable import tools, knock yourself out. You don't need to explain it or justify it to everyone all the time.

This.

Just say it for what it is, it's cheap and you don't have the need for professional tools.

Us professionals are not judging you, we don't exactly enjoy paying the weekly tool bill, we just notice the difference in the long haul.

 

[ssentt]

Proto hand tools and boxes are all USA made so...

My new proto ratchets are made in Italy.

 

[Tarheelgarage]

they employ about 11,000 people in the usa

may not be high paying manufacturing jobs, but it certainly is better than nothing

that should be good enough reason not to rag on hf. Some products ****, some are great. We should care about jobs. Not just the jobs they create directly, but for people like me who couldn't stay afloat without some of the good tools they offer

snap-on, just for reference because they are probably the most well known for us made tools, employ about 11,500 worldwide

more fathers can help their sons replace those brakes or finish that garage because of hf

 

[SKAutomotive]

My new proto ratchets are made in Italy.

That would make them Facom. Sounds like Stanley has decided to ***** out the Proto name.

 

[Ruger_556]

The list of justifications for doing business at HF is ever expanding. People's need to explain themselves constantly is telling.

If you want to buy disposable import tools, knock yourself out. You don't need to explain it or justify it to everyone all the time.

Thank you ^^^

If you want buy HF tools go for it Just don't complain about manufacturing jobs leaving America and don't start constant threads about how HF is the same as all the pro grade tools. They're not, so let's all accept that and move on.

 

[dogdog]

I like made in the USA stuff, but Vietnamese women are hot.

Heck I like made in the USA/CHINA/Vietnam if it is fine quality, but something you just can't find in HarborFreight.

 

[Conductor562]

Vegaman_Dan: There are SOME Proto branded tools made outside the USA. The rebranded Facom fine tooth rats are Italian. They phased out the old RHFT rats in favor of the Facom style because quite simply, they were better rats. They have a 13 tooth engagement which, to my knowledge, no one else can match. The old ratcheting combos were Taiwan sourced, but they have been phased out and replaced with the nicest ratcheting combos on the market IMO, which are USA made. There are a few items sold through Proto that are Asian sourced. I have a pair of terminal spreader pliers that are Taiwan made, but they don't have Proto stamped anywhere on them. Several items from their Fleet Service Catalog are Asian sourced as well. I'm not one of these 100% USA 100% of the time guys. I have some Taiwan sourced items that I like very much, but that really wasn't the point I was making now was it?

 

[Conductor562]

And just in case anyone missed it, the Proto RHFT rats that are re-branded Facoms are the stoutest RHFT rats on the market. Italian or not, they are awesome rats. A hair on the thick side, but awesome nonetheless.

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

Don't like HF? Don't buy it. Don't waste your time telling the world about it.

We don't care. We will shop where we want to.

And that's pretty much the whole thread right there.

 

[kenfath]

Here is what HF's website says about the organization and their benefit package. Presume it applies to the store workers.


Company Vision

Harbor Freight Tools is committed to invest in and build "best practices" in everything from retail to inventory, e-commerce, technology and merchandising. As such, Harbor Freight Tools continues to seek out top-tier talent at all levels, looking for high-energy professionals and creative problem-solvers who seek an environment which supports, nurtures, and properly compensates individuals who demonstrate the capacity to be top performers at their respective levels. Harbor Freight Tools is a large company with a start-up feel that provides a collegial and collaborative culture dedicated to high achievement. We are committed to support and promote people based not on politics, but on their relative contribution, skill set and accomplishments. Harbor Freight Tools is dedicated to generous pay for performance compensation and long-term careers. We also find that people who can combine personal accomplishment, leadership and a true commitment to teamwork thrive at our company.

In 1977, Harbor Freight Tools had a mission to make it easier for working people to get the best value possible on top-quality tools they could trust. Now, more than 35 years later, that mission has made Harbor Freight Tools one of the largest tool and equipment multi-channel retailers in the United States, with over twenty million satisfied customers taking advantage of our low prices and satisfaction guaranteed.
Benefits

Harbor Freight Tools offers an extensive benefits package to its employees, in addition to competitive base pay and bonus.

Health and Wellness

Comprehensive, affordable health care coverage is one of Harbor Freight Tools' many offerings. We offer the choice of a PPO or HMO in many locations, as well as a number of programs that help make it easier to stay healthy as well as maintain a positive work / life balance. Health coverage includes medical, dental, vision, prescription drug, life insurance and long term/short term disability.

Other Benefits

Harbor Freight Tools understands the challenge to balance a busy work / life schedule. For that reason, we also offer the following additional benefits to our employees:

Paid Time Off
Tuition Reimbursement
Flexible Spending Accounts (FSA)
401k Plan with a discretionary company match
Employee Discounts

 

[Conductor562]

Wonder if they sent out how to guides for getting on government assistance like Wal-Mart did?

The largest retailers on planet earth who's owners are worth more than they could reasonably spend in 5 lifetimes, and they send their employees a pamphlet on how to get in on some of that welfare action .

I'm going to go puke now