The VISES of Garage Journal

[drivesitfar]

Adstock: that looks like a big old US vise if I've ever seen one. also love the character of the top of the jaws you saved. just an FYI. don't use what is considered an anvil on the vises because they were not meant to be hit very hard. just get a short piece of RR track to beat on anything you need to so your vise will last another 100 years. good luck mounting it and maybe in two pieces since you already know how heavy it is.

68: nice find on the free welder with the expensive vise. i can't see the broken swivel piece very well in the pictures, but hopefully not too hard of a fix with your skills and the rest of the vise looks like it's in great shape. I sure hope that tragedy doesn't find it's way downstream to you. i have only seen pictures of the mountain sliding into the river and my prayers are with the family's involved. i was in Arlington last weekend and noticed the river was pretty high.

Jaker: i'm guessing that was a prior owner's brass badge or tag they put on your Prentiss so please post more pictures once you get the vise in your hands and clean it up some. nice find.

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm in a Vise deadzone.

Nothing shows up around here. At least not within a day's round trip chase.

I'm wondering how did these old vises compare in strength to modern drop forged vises. Weren't most of these old vises just cast?

'Splain this to me Lucy! Who makes any?

 

[nords1853]

68: I have a Yost 203 that I just restored but is significantly younger. My lock down is just a run of the mill carriage bolt. Yost was originally founded in Meadville in 1908. They have moved to two other locations in the past 100 yrs, so your vise has to be an early model. They are still in business, have good customer service, and would probably be able to date it for you. If you're interested here's their number. 6163962063

 

[skorpio]

'Splain this to me Lucy! Who makes any?

Pedding-Haus (Ridgid (Emerson)) and Heuer (both German) both make forged steel vises. I belive there is also a French company that does as well.

 

[va.grouseman]

Previously posted by Clik.
I'm wondering how did these old vises compare in strength to modern drop forged vises. Weren't most of these old vises just cast?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends on which vises you are referring to. The cheaper ones back in the day were made of the same old grey cast iron that the cheaper ones today are made of. Designed for quick sales, cheap price and short life. Your higher end vises of old were made of the more durable ductile steel that has molecular rods all intertwined, which makes the steel stronger. Think of a big block of cement with no reinforcement in it, and now think of cement that was poured over a big pile of rebar rods running to and fro, up and down, left and right, all overlapping, in no particular order. Which is stronger? That's what the ductile rods do.
Todays Rigid, Yost, or Reed and Wiltons are super tough vises but I would put an old Reed 4C,--- Parker 974-5-6-8,--- Athol/Starrett[/U],---Prentiiss,---Hollands, Morgan, to name a few, right up even with the best that is offered today as far as strength goes. And much cheaper. Even vises that boast 75000 and 90000 psi. tensile can be broken with the right idiot attached. (''Never been a horse that couldn't rode, Never ben a man that couldn't be throde.)

 

[jaker10]

Here are the pictures of a Prentiss 515 I bought last night. I really like the medallion or badge or what ever it's called.

 

[Craptain]

jaker10, I wonder if that was an anniversary model, or something like that. I never saw the medal before. It looks to be glued in so I guess it will be coming out for the restore.

 

[rmalkow2]

Ok, vise wizards check this out and give me some instruction. Is this really the value of a Wilton Cadet? Reading all these vise stories and restorations has admittedly got me infected now with the disease. But this is crazy money. I will have to look for something more simple to get started on. $300 for a bench vise is just not in the budget.
Is this guy crazy asking for this or is it some special rare model?

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/tls/4391764666.html

 

[KMScott]

Todays Rigid, Yost, or Reed are super tough vises but I would put an old Reed 4C,--- Parker 974-5-6-8,--- Athol/Starrett[/U],---Prentiiss,---Hollands, Morgan, to name a few, right up even with the best that is offered today as far as strength goes.

I have been working a few of these vises and agree with you VA, I am disappointed in the Rock Island #594 vise. The casting is very grainy and weak. The others drill easy but are noticeably harder. Imagine having a vise cast with Nodular Iron. Wow would that be a tuff vise.

 

[skorpio]

Previously posted by Clik.
I'm wondering how did these old vises compare in strength to modern drop forged vises. Weren't most of these old vises just cast?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends on which vises you are referring to. The cheaper ones back in the day were made of the same old grey cast iron that the cheaper ones today are made of. Designed for quick sales, cheap price and short life. Your higher end vises of old were made of the more durable ductile steel that has molecular rods all intertwined, which makes the steel stronger. Think of a big block of cement with no reinforcement in it, and now think of cement that was poured over a big pile of rebar rods running to and fro, up and down, left and right, all overlapping, in no particular order. Which is stronger? That's what the ductile rods do.
Todays Rigid, Yost, or Reed are super tough vises but I would put an old Reed 4C,--- Parker 974-5-6-8,--- Athol/Starrett[/U],---Prentiiss,---Hollands, Morgan, to name a few, right up even with the best that is offered today as far as strength goes. And much cheaper. Even vises that boast 75000 and 90000 psi. tensile can be broken with the right idiot attached. (''Never been a horse that couldn't rode, Never ben a man that couldn't be throde.)

Of the modern vises only the Ridgid (Pedding-haus) is a forged vice. As far as cheaper? By the pound maybe, but probably not by capacity, a 6" jaw Ridgid is capacity wise on par with vintage railroad vises and cost $600 new, those large size old vices aren't cheap, not easy to find, expensive to ship if you find one that isn't local and if you have to redo jaws, clean it up, paint, etc...not really a bargain in the end, unless you fall upon a steal. The forged vises also weigh about 1/3 of the weight in equivalent capacity. I'm not suggesting one is better than the other, but it's 2 paths to a similar end. I'd love to find a pristine Prentiss but reality is I'll probably end up buying a Ridgid, less space, less weight, less effort, and I can get off the shelf soft jaws for it of various types.

 

[drivesitfar]

RM: on Craigslist the seller can ask anything they want to, but doesn't mean they will get that much. that vise looks like it has all the parts and it is fairly old maybe a 40's or 50's version, but without it being restored i'd bet he doesn't get close to that much.

Jaker: i too have never seen a brass badge on any Prentiss and either done as an anniversary or maybe a prior owner had one made. usually those have the inset casting in that spot and if the badge does come off in your restore i'd like to see if it had the casting under it still or maybe this badge was instead of the casting.

nice looking badge and should shine up nicely.

 

[bl00]

Of the modern vises only the Ridgid (Pedding-haus) is a forged vice.

skorpio, Yost has one too. I don't know who makes it for them, but it's another option.

http://www.yostvises.com/mechanics-vises/forged-steel-bench-vise.html

 

[bl00]

Yost was originally founded in Meadville in 1908.

Yost doesn't know their own history. Don't pay any attention to what the website says. They started in 1907, maybe even earlier. I sent them the correct info, but they probably already have too many T-Shirts printed up to change it.

They were in Waynesboro and Mechanicsburg prior to Meadville. Find a Yost with either of those cities on the side and that would be quite rare.

Here's the timeline that I've found so far:
1907:
-G.M Yost Mfg Co located in Waynesboro, PA
-Bought vise factory of Peter A Frasse & Co
-Moved Frasse plant to Mechanicsburg, PA
-expected to have factory operational by Feb 10, 1907
-business is booming, company is purchasing new equipment
-company reorganized with IE Yost as President, GM Yost as VP and general
manager, and TJ Kennedy as Secretary and Treasurer
-foundry expected to be completed in April
-Dec 12: Company erecting new plant in Meadville, expects to open around March 1, 1908, will move offices after plant is open, no foundry in Meadville expected, may buy another $5000 in equipment, business depression has not hurt them, still have plenty of unfilled orders

1910:
-Purchased the Williamson vise Co of Bradford, PA and will move it to Meadville

 

[Fretters]

You turn your back on this thread for a day or two and it seems you're miles behind.

Here's my Athol 617 that I just restored.

Nicely done. That's obviously had a hard life, but you've restored it nicely.

I've just purchased one which has a few scars, (I'm totally blaming you lot, btw. I thought I'd got to that point where I was happy with my vice collection as was, but nooooo, you had to have this thread ), and ended up buying another one the seller had too, just 'cos it was cute and cheap. They're off the bay and being sent via courier, so I have to wait for them to arrive as yet, but these are a few photo's from the listing. The first two photo's are of the cute one. For £6 plus postage, I couldn't resist.

This is the one which I was keeping an eye on originally.

A Parkinson with 3" jaws and quick release, (which surprised me somewhat seeing as that is likely a fairly small vice). That's the one which has had a bit of a rough time. Someone has run the hacksaw down one side of the jaws whilst cutting something in it. You can see where they've run into the top of the nut with the blade too. No idea just how bad it is until it gets here though. The main thing which drew my eye with that one is the bolt on top section for the rear jaw. Not oft I tend to see that type, and they've always taken my fancy. This is the first one which has been feasible due to having the option of postage though, as they're usually miles away from me.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: nice looking vices headed your way. the little one looks a lot like the top half of a Blacksmith vise. the Parkinson looks like it might be older than both of us combined.

B100: i do love your history lessons and i swear you were alive back then so keep that good information coming.

 

[bubinga2]

haven't seen many of these !!

See page 164 of this Google Book: http://books.google.com/books?id=btsOAAAAYAAJ&dq=blacksmith%20catalog&pg=PA164#v=onepage&q=merrill&f=false

Looks very similar

 

[bubinga2]

Yost doesn't know their own history. Don't pay any attention to what the website says. They started in 1907, maybe even earlier. I sent them the correct info, but they probably already have too many T-Shirts printed up to change it.

They were in Waynesboro and Mechanicsburg prior to Meadville. Find a Yost with either of those cities on the side and that would be quite rare.

Here's the timeline that I've found so far:
1907:
-G.M Yost Mfg Co located in Waynesboro, PA
-Bought vise factory of Peter A Frasse & Co
-Moved Frasse plant to Mechanicsburg, PA
-expected to have factory operational by Feb 10, 1907
-business is booming, company is purchasing new equipment
-company reorganized with IE Yost as President, GM Yost as VP and general
manager, and TJ Kennedy as Secretary and Treasurer
-foundry expected to be completed in April
-Dec 12: Company erecting new plant in Meadville, expects to open around March 1, 1908, will move offices after plant is open, no foundry in Meadville expected, may buy another $5000 in equipment, business depression has not hurt them, still have plenty of unfilled orders

1910:
-Purchased the Williamson vise Co of Bradford, PA and will move it to Meadville

Great information on the Yost Co. I believe that Gilmore Yost worked for Emmert Mfg. Co. before going on his own. In Aug. 1902, he signed as a witness on one of Joseph Emmert's patents. See http://www.mprime.com/Emmert/yost.htm

 

[EOC_Jason]

Jaker: i too have never seen a brass badge on any Prentiss and either done as an anniversary or maybe a prior owner had one made. usually those have the inset casting in that spot and if the badge does come off in your restore i'd like to see if it had the casting under it still or maybe this badge was instead of the casting.

I've seen a handful of the Prentiss' with the brass medallion, I've always wanted one myself but never found a good size for a good price. I think the round logo design like that was some of the later models... I see more that are just a cast round logo than the brass insert....

EDIT: Here is one that sold recently on eBay... very nice 3.5" but too rich for my blood.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: nice looking vices headed your way. the little one looks a lot like the top half of a Blacksmith vise. the Parkinson looks like it might be older than both of us combined.

It definitely seems to be of the blacksmith style of vice. Just seemed to have that little bit of charm which I couldn't resist. Seems quite tidy condition from the photo's too.

With the Parkinson, it could quite well be older than I expect. It's definitely an unusual style if nowt else. Can't wait for those to turn up.

 

[CudaChick1968]

I barely made it a week before bringing home another one. I can't find out much about it online (not even using the Search function in this thread). Billy said his dad had it for as long as he could remember. Anyone have anything on a PROMARK 50709 3 1/2"?

 

[KMScott]

EDIT: Here is one that sold recently on eBay... very nice 3.5" but too rich for my blood.

That one came from the Golden Pile, Gregg did a excellent job.

I just got these jaws in the mail, anybody have a idea on what steel type they used back then. I thought it might be 0-1 but it does not spark like 0-1. Where it is broke it is worth trying to fix.

 

[zkling]

Anyone have anything on a PROMARK 50709 3 1/2"?

A while back I found a promark hammer. After some digging I found that it was a brand carried by walmart and popular mechanics. Probably made off shore.

Did you see this?
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140053

 

[Filson]

This is the one which I was keeping an eye on originally.

A Parkinson with 3" jaws and quick release, (which surprised me somewhat seeing as that is likely a fairly small vice). That's the one which has had a bit of a rough time. Someone has run the hacksaw down one side of the jaws whilst cutting something in it. You can see where they've run into the top of the nut with the blade too. No idea just how bad it is until it gets here though. The main thing which drew my eye with that one is the bolt on top section for the rear jaw. Not oft I tend to see that type, and they've always taken my fancy. This is the first one which has been feasible due to having the option of postage though, as they're usually miles away from me.

That's freaking cool, I've never seen one with the bolts on top of the static jaw before. I'd be keeping an eye on that too - I'd love to add that to the collection!

 

[bigcaddy]

Here are the pictures of a Prentiss 515 I bought last night. I really like the medallion or badge or what ever it's called.

I've got a 515 with the badge missing as well. Where did you say you live? Do you have dogs?

 

[Clik]

Thanks for all the adVISE my fellow tool junkies.

 

[jaker10]

I've got a 515 with the badge missing as well. Where did you say you live? Do you have dogs?

On yours that the badge is missing, is there cast numbers under were the badge was ?

 

[epossum]

Here's a couple that I took yesterday.

Yup, that brings back a few memories. That is one of the best setups you could have - horizontal mill with universal head. Do you have the stuff needed to set it up as a horizontal? Looks like you got a bunch of cutters for that configuration. Just curious. I didn't really like milling in that configuration but for some stuff it was required, particularly splines on valve stems.

Sorry to get off-thread but I kind of miss the old shop days sometimes. Darn sure miss being able to knock out a few "private jobs" once in a while.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Yup, that brings back a few memories. That is one of the best setups you could have - horizontal mill with universal head. Do you have the stuff needed to set it up as a horizontal? Looks like you got a bunch of cutters for that configuration. Just curious. I didn't really like milling in that configuration but for some stuff it was required, particularly splines on valve stems.

Sorry to get off-thread but I kind of miss the old shop days sometimes. Darn sure miss being able to knock out a few "private jobs" once in a while.

Thanks for sharing!

This milling machine has everything for both Horizontal & Vertical operations. I only have experience in vertical milling. So that will be a new experience. Plus, because I need to move the head out of the way to attach the horizontal shaft end, I will first need to purchase an indicator that is suitable tune the head back straight.

Now, I'm thinking of selling my milling machine in order to purchase a small lathe. While looking up information about Heinlin cam lock vises, I noticed that they make a 90 degree vise that can be mounted on the lathe's tool mount. Then you can attach your mill cutter in the lathe chuck and presto…you can do milling operations on a small scale. I'm sure that I can also get an angle plate and attach a small mill vise to it for the same effect. But this is giving me something to think about.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

I barely made it a week before bringing home another one. I can't find out much about it online (not even using the Search function in this thread). Billy said his dad had it for as long as he could remember. Anyone have anything on a PROMARK 50709 3 1/2"?

Leanna,

It looks like the Sears, Dunlap, and Columbian 3 1/2" vises that I recently made into bookends. These vises (like yours) all look alike except the names. From what I've gathered, they were made in the 60s or the 70s. From your post, it looks like a good keepsake.

Sorry, forgot to say that I think these vises are made by Columbian.

 

[PghJKB]

I've got a 515 with the badge missing as well. Where did you say you live? Do you have dogs?

bigcaddy
I think I have one of those brass badged Prentiss's. Mine is a 512 (3 inch jaws), and it has the funky, misfitting smooth, no tooth jaws. Max's jaws are neither smooth nor toothless.

EOC Jason
I think the brass badges were on earlier models, mine has the brass badge and a split swivel base, like the one from evilprey.

Here are some images.

 

[Fretters]

That's freaking cool, I've never seen one with the bolts on top of the static jaw before. I'd be keeping an eye on that too - I'd love to add that to the collection!

Cheers. That's pretty much what I thought too. For the sake of £15, (approx $25), excluding postage, it seemed criminal not to give it a new home. Just curious as to how large it is. I'm using the little Record with 3" jaws as the approximate size guide, so it'll be intriguing to see whether it's similar or larger/smaller.

 

[Fretters]

I just got these jaws in the mail, anybody have a idea on what steel type they used back then. I thought it might be 0-1 but it does not spark like 0-1. Where it is broke it is worth trying to fix.

Just been looking at an old Woden advert for their standard range of vices, and it listed construction type as close-grained cast iron for body and slide, mild steel for the leadscrew and simply hardened steel for the jaw inserts. First time I've noted anything about construction on an old advert.

 

[FMC1959]

I've seen a handful of the Prentiss' with the brass medallion, I've always wanted one myself but never found a good size for a good price. I think the round logo design like that was some of the later models... I see more that are just a cast round logo than the brass insert....

EDIT: Here is one that sold recently on eBay... very nice 3.5" but too rich for my blood.

Jason, that one is a real beaute, just curious, how much did it go for?

I totally agree that some of these reconditioned vises go for high prices, even insane prices on ebay, especially if you are looking as a "collector".

On the other hand someone who is needing to buy a good vise (work) and does not have the time or inclination to look for a $50 vise to restore themselves. If you look at a new retail made in the US Wilton, Yost or Columbian...machinist or combo vise, these restored vise prices are actually a bargain. You are getting a made in the US, "old iron" vise that is beautiful (per my taste), and stood the test of time, should last as long or longer than any of the new ones.

There are people dropping $500 to over $1000 on new US made vise daily, you can get a lot of old iron for that money.

Franco

 

[zkling]

Franco,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-lb-Prent...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[drivesitfar]

I hadn't seen one brass badge on a Prentiss prior to Jaker posting his new find and now I've seen 4 of them in 24 hours. maybe some of the Prentiss vises I've seen that had them, but were so dirty i just assumed they were cast like the ones i own. i found a few pictures of one of the Bulldogs i own that has the casting and i'm thinking i might do the lettering like Jason did on his Reed with the white background on the inset once i get it cleaned up.

anybody seen the brass badge off the Prentiss and is it blank or a casting underneath it?

Cuda: your little open screw red vise you got from your friend looks like several other of the old US vises that were made in the 50's and maybe earlier. here's a picture of my littlestown which looks a lot like yours. i haven't heard of the brand name on yours yet, but put some lube on the screw and mount it up for your light duty and for guys in the shop to use so they will leave your Reed alone until you find the 150 plus pounder to replace it with.

 

[va.grouseman]

Here's one like Craptain's.-----No name.

Bigcaddy and b100 say it's a Boley. That's good enough for me.















Know any history on them? Any idea how old?

 

[jholder]

Coworker told me I had to post this. Nothing special, but I really wanted a Leinen-style vise, and this was one of the few vise's (at all) that showed up locally. The price was right, even though it was damaged, and it gave me a chance to practice my restoration skills before trying it on something a tad bigger. Media blasted and powdercoated hammertone.

 

[oldldh]

Welcome!!!!


Nice job!!!!

 

[Nick Danger]

Someone three hours from here is selling this on Craigslist for $200 with no information. Is there any way to tell from the picture if it's a vise or if it's scrap metal?

 

[oldldh]

Model # 618...

A very large vise with a big weld repair...

Approaching scrap metal status...

May be a candidate for parts supplier...

If you can get it cheaper, it "might" be worth fixing...