The VISES of Garage Journal

[drivesitfar]

Nick: my guess is an Athol or a Holland's and that's the good part. the one jaw looks different than the other one so not sure if it is missing something or broken. also that back piece under the slide where you would mount it looks like maybe it was broken and welded.

i would probably pass and i like big vises. more pictures would help it those are not really issues, but just my 2 cents.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Someone three hours from here is selling this on Craigslist for $200 with no information. Is there any way to tell from the picture if it's a vise or if it's scrap metal?

IMHO: Way too toasty for $200.00

 

[mcmlvif100]

Another Chicago area CL vise ad. Pretty expensive but it's a big vise with swivel jaw and therefore, thought that it was worth sharing.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4393686923.html

American Scale vise 190 lbs 6 inch jaw - $500 (Lakemoor)

American Scale no. 79 vise weighs 190 lbs no cracks or welds that I saw

 

[454ragtop]

This milling machine has everything for both Horizontal & Vertical operations. I only have experience in vertical milling. So that will be a new experience. Plus, because I need to move the head out of the way to attach the horizontal shaft end, I will first need to purchase an indicator that is suitable tune the head back straight.

Now, I'm thinking of selling my milling machine in order to purchase a small lathe. While looking up information about Heinlin cam lock vises, I noticed that they make a 90 degree vise that can be mounted on the lathe's tool mount. Then you can attach your mill cutter in the lathe chuck and presto…you can do milling operations on a small scale. I'm sure that I can also get an angle plate and attach a small mill vise to it for the same effect. But this is giving me something to think about.

Mark, I don't think you would be happy with a milling attachment on a lathe, especially after having used that fine mill. A milling attachment is better than no mill at all, just barely. Very, very limited in what can be accomplished.
Jim

 

[wrenchguy]

Another Chicago area CL vise ad. Pretty expensive but it's a big vise with swivel jaw and therefore, thought that it was worth sharing.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4393686923.html

American Scale vise 190 lbs 6 inch jaw - $500 (Lakemoor)

American Scale no. 79 vise weighs 190 lbs no cracks or welds that I saw

its chevy orange now including the slide, i think its been brought up b4.



mcm u know anything about the vises in sale at napanee saturday?

 

[Craptain]

Here's one like Craptain's.-----No name.

Bigcaddy and b100 say it's a Boley. That's good enough for me.















Know any history on them? Any idea how old?

Where did you find that?
It is in better condition than mine in at least one significant area. Actually it looks pretty good all around.

 

[mcmlvif100]

its chevy orange now including the slide, i think its been brought up b4.

mcm u know anything about the vises in sale at napanee saturday?

Missed the post and the connection.

Saw the ad. Looks like some nice stuff but really don't know anything about the Nappanee sale. Sorry.

 

[Fretters]

Coworker told me I had to post this. Nothing special, but I really wanted a Leinen-style vise, and this was one of the few vise's (at all) that showed up locally. The price was right, even though it was damaged, and it gave me a chance to practice my restoration skills before trying it on something a tad bigger. Media blasted and powdercoated hammertone.

That looks tidy. Nicely done.

 

[va.grouseman]

Originally posted by Craptain.
Where did you find that?
-------------------------------

Got the Boley and the Stevens, (package deal), off E-bay about a year ago for $125.00 and shipping, (buy it now).

 

[oldldh]

A Thought on Rarity ---


My "Wanted Craftsman 5197/5198" ad is coming up on 4,000 views, and 28 bumps...


I've had three "Is this what you're looking for messages"...


And one, "I've got what you want, I think...How much is it worth to you???"...No photos, no info...When I asked him for the info and photos, I never heard another word...HMMMM!!!


I used the phrase " THE 209 and THE 1598" in another post a couple of weeks ago, and I'm beginning to believe I was right...There are only one of each...


I shall persevere, I will not be deterred in my quest...


If however, I shuffle off this mortal coil, I expect the rest of you Vise-Hounds to pick up the gauntlet, and carry on...I'm not getting my mail from a gopher, yet, but I am going to be 69 this summer...


I'll probably be around for the next twenty years, I hope, but it would do this old soul the world of good to know that the "Ever Elusive Iron Quest" will continue...

 

[zkling]

And one, "I've got what you want, I think...How much is it worth to you???"...No photos, no info...When I asked him for the info and photos, I never heard another word...HMMMM!!!

Sounds like craigslist.

 

[Outlawmws]

oldldh, you will find it someday, but if you don't, yes, we will persevere!

 

[gatewaysysop]

Someone three hours from here is selling this on Craigslist for $200 with no information. Is there any way to tell from the picture if it's a vise or if it's scrap metal?

Model # 618...

A very large vise with a big weld repair...

Approaching scrap metal status...

May be a candidate for parts supplier...

If you can get it cheaper, it "might" be worth fixing...

Nick: my guess is an Athol or a Holland's and that's the good part. the one jaw looks different than the other one so not sure if it is missing something or broken. also that back piece under the slide where you would mount it looks like maybe it was broken and welded.

i would probably pass and i like big vises. more pictures would help it those are not really issues, but just my 2 cents.

IMHO: Way too toasty for $200.00

That appears to be an 8" Athol. For $200, I suppose you could try to bargain him down on the damage and see if you can clean it up. I'd take it in for half what he's asking, tops, especially with a three hour ride to see it. Could be cleaned up, but jaws are likely not removable on one of that vintage, so repairing them would be tricky at best.

 

[jpickar]

A Thought on Rarity ---


My "Wanted Craftsman 5197/5198" ad is coming up on 4,000 views, and 28 bumps...


I've had three "Is this what you're looking for messages"...


And one, "I've got what you want, I think...How much is it worth to you???"...No photos, no info...When I asked him for the info and photos, I never heard another word...HMMMM!!!


I used the phrase " THE 209 and THE 1598" in another post a couple of weeks ago, and I'm beginning to believe I was right...There are only one of each...


I shall persevere, I will not be deterred in my quest...


If however, I shuffle off this mortal coil, I expect the rest of you Vise-Hounds to pick up the gauntlet, and carry on...I'm not getting my mail from a gopher, yet, but I am going to be 69 this summer...


I'll probably be around for the next twenty years, I hope, but it would do this old soul the world of good to know that the "Ever Elusive Iron Quest" will continue...

olsldh,
You have put your quest forth like an AMERICAN!! Well said!

John

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Coworker told me I had to post this. Nothing special, but I really wanted a Leinen-style vise, and this was one of the few vise's (at all) that showed up locally. The price was right, even though it was damaged, and it gave me a chance to practice my restoration skills before trying it on something a tad bigger. Media blasted and powdercoated hammertone.

The one I have was broken in that same spot as are others I have seen. It is a weak spot in the casting or a pressure point at that bolt. Find a good old USA vise for the next restoration Before you know it you will have vise fever like the rest of us here.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Mark, I don't think you would be happy with a milling attachment on a lathe, especially after having used that fine mill. A milling attachment is better than no mill at all, just barely. Very, very limited in what can be accomplished.
Jim

Jim,
I can see what you're saying. In my case, floor space is an issue. Ideally, I would love a vintage mill/lathe. However the choices are very high $$$ American or an Asian unit. Mostly what I use a lathe for is polishing guide rods (example: wood working vises) and making c-clamp spindle feet. Your post has me thinking of how I can accomplish my small lathe tasks in the mill.

 

[CudaChick1968]

Leanna,

It looks like the Sears, Dunlap, and Columbian 3 1/2" vises that I recently made into bookends. These vises (like yours) all look alike except the names. From what I've gathered, they were made in the 60s or the 70s. From your post, it looks like a good keepsake.

Sorry, forgot to say that I think these vises are made by Columbian.

Thanks Mark! Got it a bit cleaned up preliminarily and greased last night (forgot the pics) to set it up for use while the Reed is getting pretty ... and saw there's a '1957' on the bottom. I guess it might be worth restoring too.

Jholder, I like your hammertone finish. Do you think you're going to have any issues from coating the slide??

 

[Fretters]

At the risk of having to hand in my man card for even asking this, when is big too big with vices? Just been thinking back to the one which got away, (a Model F No. 8 Parkinson last year. Numpty judgement call on my part was the reason), and then started wondering, why would I need owt above a 4" jaw anyhow, as I've never really even pushed the No. 7 to the limit. I know it's likely one of those unanswerable questions, but what is generally the deciding factor, (other than the usual "ooh, I want that" type thing), as to what size best suits?

Do you think you're going to have any issues from coating the slide??

By the looks of it, I think he's left the dovetails clean, which is the part which the body rides on with that style of vice.

 

[drivesitfar]

i don't think your "Man Card" is in jeopardy anytime soon since you already own more old iron in your shop than most of us. you not only have one giant hack saw, but i think you had two of them plus the metal lathe and other nice pieces you are and have restored.

what i can say is that if you have never tried the feel of the 6 inch or bigger old US vises it is something you won't forget. i have a 6 inch Wilton that is maybe 60 pounds which doesn't compare to my big Rock Island, Parker and Reed vises. i sold my 6 inch Record vise even though it had the quick release mech on it because it had the look and feel of an import.

go to one of your friends if any of them might own a big 130 plus pound old US vise and just try one and then tell us you won't be looking for one and trying to find a spot on your bench for one.

cheers

 

[Nick Danger]

Model # 618...

A very large vise with a big weld repair...

Approaching scrap metal status...

May be a candidate for parts supplier...

If you can get it cheaper, it "might" be worth fixing...

Nick: my guess is an Athol or a Holland's and that's the good part. the one jaw looks different than the other one so not sure if it is missing something or broken. also that back piece under the slide where you would mount it looks like maybe it was broken and welded.

i would probably pass and i like big vises. more pictures would help it those are not really issues, but just my 2 cents.

IMHO: Way too toasty for $200.00

Thanks for the help. I gave it a pass.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

At the risk of having to hand in my man card for even asking this, when is big too big with vices? Just been thinking back to the one which got away, (a Model F No. 8 Parkinson last year. Numpty judgement call on my part was the reason), and then started wondering, why would I need owt above a 4" jaw anyhow, as I've never really even pushed the No. 7 to the limit. I know it's likely one of those unanswerable questions, but what is generally the deciding factor, (other than the usual "ooh, I want that" type thing), as to what size best suits?




By the looks of it, I think he's left the dovetails clean, which is the part which the body rides on with that style of vice.

Fretters,

From my sales experience, I have a surprisingly hard time selling the vises that have larger than 4" jaws, unless they're Craftsman or the Wilton light duty mechanics vises that have the 5" to 6" T-jaws. So I guess that the extra large / heavy vises are for more specialized users. When I move my 8" milling vise that weighs in at 220 pounds…I can understand the issues.

 

[jpickar]

At the risk of having to hand in my man card for even asking this, when is big too big with vices? Just been thinking back to the one which got away, (a Model F No. 8 Parkinson last year. Numpty judgement call on my part was the reason), and then started wondering, why would I need owt above a 4" jaw anyhow, as I've never really even pushed the No. 7 to the limit. I know it's likely one of those unanswerable questions, but what is generally the deciding factor, (other than the usual "ooh, I want that" type thing), as to what size best suits?




By the looks of it, I think he's left the dovetails clean, which is the part which the body rides on with that style of vice.

For a user vise my Wilton C3 is too big for me. My 4" Craftsman does just fine.

John

 

[GETRIDAONE]

Thanks Mark! Got it a bit cleaned up preliminarily and greased last night (forgot the pics) to set it up for use while the Reed is getting pretty ... and saw there's a '1957' on the bottom. I guess it might be worth restoring too.

Jholder, I like your hammertone finish. Do you think you're going to have any issues from coating the slide??

As Mark said all look the same with different names or no name.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

^^^ "Holy Sheep S#!t!" (From a Cheech & Ching movie). All of those types of vises have passed through my shop.

 

[jholder]

Jholder, I like your hammertone finish. Do you think you're going to have any issues from coating the slide??

This particular style of vise doesn't rest on, or move up and down the slide per se, it the dynamic jaw (the rear on in this case) moves forward and back on a dovetail cut into the body of the vise.

I wondered if I should mask off that area when I powder coated it, but it looked like it had paint from the factory, and wasn't exactly super smooth either, so I went ahead and covered everything. I haven't noticed any issues with it yet, but we'll see. If it had been worn smooth from contact, I probably would have masked it off.... but my guess is the tolerances are loose enough it won't be a big deal.

 

[jholder]

By the looks of it, I think he's left the dovetails clean, which is the part which the body rides on with that style of vice.

I wondered about leaving them clean, but as I mentioned, they had paint on them from the factory, so I figured they knew better than i did

It's certainly smoother operating than when i got it... but that is probably the cleaning and fresh grease it got.

 

[organ]

Farther than I care to drive so I'm passing it along: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/4395033232.html

$20 Wilton

 

[bl00]

At the risk of having to hand in my man card for even asking this, when is big too big with vices?

Fretters,
Here's some good reading for you. Follow this link and scroll up a bit to the beginning. It's a 1929 test from the U.S. Bureau of Standards. They tested vise sizes from 9 lbs up to 282 lbs to see what was heavy enough for "typical shop operations."

 

[autopts]

Another Chicago area CL vise ad. Pretty expensive but it's a big vise with swivel jaw and therefore, thought that it was worth sharing.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/4393686923.html

American Scale vise 190 lbs 6 inch jaw - $500 (Lakemoor)

American Scale no. 79 vise weighs 190 lbs no cracks or welds that I saw

He had it drenched in paint on CL for about 3 weeks. I'm sure it wasn't my idea when I suggested to him that he should dunk it in Lacquer Thinner. He's still about double $$ where he should be.

 

[Fretters]

Cheers chaps.

what i can say is that if you have never tried the feel of the 6 inch or bigger old US vises it is something you won't forget. i have a 6 inch Wilton that is maybe 60 pounds which doesn't compare to my big Rock Island, Parker and Reed vises. i sold my 6 inch Record vise even though it had the quick release mech on it because it had the look and feel of an import.

go to one of your friends if any of them might own a big 130 plus pound old US vise and just try one and then tell us you won't be looking for one and trying to find a spot on your bench for one.

It sounds like a portion of it is the "ooh, I want that" thing then? Was that an old or a newer Record vice which you let go, btw?

Fretters,

From my sales experience, I have a surprisingly hard time selling the vises that have larger than 4" jaws, unless they're Craftsman or the Wilton light duty mechanics vises that have the 5" to 6" T-jaws. So I guess that the extra large / heavy vises are for more specialized users. When I move my 8" milling vise that weighs in at 220 pounds…I can understand the issues.

Cheers Mark. Sounds like they do tend to be a specific area/need type thing then, if they're reluctant to go. I was thinking I was overlooking something earlier when I was trying to figure out when a larger vice might be personally necessary, but it seems likely not.

Don't envy you moving that 8" around at that weight. That must be a fair monster of a thing, at that weight.

For a user vise my Wilton C3 is too big for me. My 4" Craftsman does just fine.

The 4" do seem to be a nice general size, don't they. Obviously I'm not the only one who's settled on that size as the main go to. What size is the C3, btw? I'm not too familiar with the Wilton sizing method versus models.

Fretters,
Here's some good reading for you. Follow this link and scroll up a bit to the beginning. It's a 1929 test from the U.S. Bureau of Standards. They tested vise sizes from 9 lbs up to 282 lbs to see what was heavy enough for "typical shop operations."

Cheers. I'll go have a read of that.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Cheers chaps.




It sounds like a portion of it is the "ooh, I want that" thing then? Was that an old or a newer Record vice which you let go, btw?




Cheers Mark. Sounds like they do tend to be a specific area/need type thing then, if they're reluctant to go. I was thinking I was overlooking something earlier when I was trying to figure out when a larger vice might be personally necessary, but it seems likely not.



Don't envy you moving that 8" around at that weight. That must be a fair monster of a thing, at that weight.

Fretters,
It's not so bad. This is one time that having too much vise on a mill is a good thing. Moving it is easy with an overhead hoist.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

He had it drenched in paint on CL for about 3 weeks. I'm sure it wasn't my idea when I suggested to him that he should dunk it in Lacquer Thinner. He's still about double $$ where he should be.

Autopts,

IMHO: Compared to a new vise and if everything works OK, It wouldn't be a terrible deal (retail price). I think it would sell close to that price if he had done a proper restoration. Unfortunately, for the seller, vintage iron is undervalued.

 

[gasgunner]

An update on the little Reed in this post. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3844022#post3844022

I parkerized the handle. The slide part of the removable jaw is the original finish, just scrubbed with a wire brush. The screw still had most of the original finish and did not have any rust, so I masked it when I blasted and parked the handle.

I greased it up and assembled it today. This is my first vise with the swiveling fixed jaw, and I gotta say, it is pretty slick. I think we are going to enjoy this one. I was afraid that the swiveling feature in the fixed jaw would make the vise have a spongy or springy feel to it. It does not at all. The vise tightens down solid and the handle just stops when the jaws meet. Very happy with the old girl.

John

 

[Fretters]

Fretters,
It's not so bad. This is one time that having too much vise on a mill is a good thing. Moving it is easy with an overhead hoist.

One thing I'd love to have would be a hoist. With only a 6' high ceiling in the shed though, and barely enough spare room to swing a cat, my hoist options are pretty much nonexistent. I always have to resort to old fashioned grunt, which limits my choices somewhat.

Unfortunately, for the seller, vintage iron is undervalued.

That's the truth. Over here it's the same. Unless there happens to be a desirable name on an old piece of equipment, (that doesn't necessarily translate to better quality either), there are some decent bargains to be had, especially during the lull periods.

 

[zkling]

Autopts,

IMHO: Compared to a new vise and if everything works OK, It wouldn't be a terrible deal (retail price). I think it would sell close to that price if he had done a proper restoration. Unfortunately, for the seller, vintage iron is undervalued.

On the whole I don't think that could be further from the truth. Maybe on certain vises, but old iron on the whole, lots of people way over value. Not realizing what time, effort and resources are needed to bring something back to working condition. And this is coming from someone that has an entire shop built around vintage machinery.

That is like saying my rusty, unrestored corvette is worth the same as a fully restored piece. Granted the time, effort and resources to restore a vise vs a car are vastly different, but still the same principal applies.

 

[Fretters]

On the whole I don't think that could be further from the truth. Maybe on certain vises, but old iron on the whole, lots of people way over value.

That tends to be more seller delusion that reality a lot of the time though, pertaining to current values. How many people, for example, try labelling stuff as rare, quality, antique, vintage or the like when it's actually none of those.

On the flip side, on a like for like basis new against old, the older stuff is still generally only a fraction of the cost of a new equivalent, even when it's overpriced, and the quality is generally better on a lot of the old stuff. Vices being one particularly fine example.

 

[Alexbn921]

Fretters,
Here's some good reading for you. Follow this link and scroll up a bit to the beginning. It's a 1929 test from the U.S. Bureau of Standards. They tested vise sizes from 9 lbs up to 282 lbs to see what was heavy enough for "typical shop operations."

Great read. They put a lot of thought into testing. For me 4-5 inch is big enough. Had a chance to get a 1920ish Reed 4c and it was just to big and tall to be used in my garage.

 

[Fretters]

Not had chance to read it as yet. Looked at that page in the link though, and still trying to get over the fact they're referencing using a sledge hammer on a piece in a vice.

How big are the 4C's, approximately? The physical space taken is a good point too. With the points brought up, my hankering for an 8 is slowly diminishing unless I find actual need. Saying that though, when has common sense and practicallity ruled with some of our tool/machinery choices?

 

[jholder]

Farther than I care to drive so I'm passing it along: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/4395033232.html

$20 Wilton

Doh! I just emailed the seller a few minutes ago, hopefully they've still got it. I'd like it to be a little closer, but for whatever reason, we either don't see many locally, or they seem like they're overpriced.

 

[pedrodagr8]

My lil vise:

Panavise make modular vises for a variety of applications. Rangingin size from small circuit boards to small motors (like lawnmower motors). Better yet it's designed and made in the good ol USA.

In that image it's holding a board roughly the size of a computer motherboard.

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