The VISES of Garage Journal

[Fretters]

I mentioned to Fretters earlier that it was caused by a caveman with a cheater bar. They had something clamped in the vise and were pulling towards themselves and snapped the jaw right off.

I'd have to say that ZK did interpret what you said initially in the same way I did, in thinking that you were suggesting a cheater bar on the handle. As you say above though, they must've been literally hanging off the workpiece in the jaws to accomplish that break.

 

[zkling]

Unless they have some really funky setup, that'll work fine.




It won't make a jot of difference. The nuts are so long on most vices that there's a good 50%+ more thread than is actually necessary for acceptable use.

Cool, thanks. That is what I figured, just wanted to see what the experts had to say. A 2nd opinion never hurts. When I pulled the screw and the lead washer came out I had to take a close look, but I'm positive it is lead. I tried searching for prentiss lead washer but couldn't come up with anything. I'll just make a bronze one real quick out of scrap. Same thoughts on the nut.

I'd have to say that ZK did interpret what you said initially in the same way I did, in thinking that you were suggesting a cheater bar on the handle. As you say above though, they must've been literally hanging off the workpiece in the jaws to accomplish that break.

I didn't think it could fail that way from over tightening. I've seen a few like that and IIRC they were from falling over. It probably wouldn't be too bad for use had they welded/brazed it back on straight. Which it sounds like did not happen given bc's description.

 

[Fretters]

Aye, about the only two ways that type of damage can happen is through dropping it else levering/hammering something way too much when it's in the jaws. If my logic is correct, applying pressure on the static jaw should usually be fine, it's when you apply pressure on the moving jaw that there's the possibility of fracture. It really would need a lot of grunt else heavy, sharp shocks applied to do it though.

 

[Fretters]

The little Parkinson vice, which managed to survive the sellers lacklustre packaging and the courier without apparent damage.

It's not in too bad condition, everything considered. There's a small chunk missing from the bottom casting, just at the rear underneath where the top section sits:

but that looks to be yonks old damage, (or possibly even like it from the factory), judging by the colour of the cast. It's definitely not a recent thing.

I'm thinking that Drivesitfar might well be correct when he said that it may be older than both of us combined. The styling, design etc. lead me to think that this could actually be one of their early models, from around or just after the Victorian period. Not seen any advertising literature which lists this type of design, and the only vague reference I have seen so far to that slide style was one of their early designs. If anyone happens to have any literature for the Parkinson/Samsonia gear that they could share, I'd be grateful.

Quite a bit larger than I thought it would be too. I'd been using the little Record No. 1 as a rough size guide, with that having 3" jaws too, but this vice is quite a bit larger, at approx. 14" in length.

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: speaking of being dropped. did you 2 vises you just acquired survive the shoddy packing job they were shipped in?

by the way you asked how old my Record 6 inch vise was with the reverse mech and i'm guessing a Made In England 10 year old one. here's a picture of it and my 170 pound Rock Island 577 that also has 6 inch jaws.

i know it's probably rare for you to see a big old 150 plus pound old US made vise on your side of the pond, but if you get a chance to use one it feels even better than Cuda's two liner about her little Reed earlier today.

or have you seen and used one and don't understand the appeal??

by the way since most of the vises i own and will be keeping are over 60 years old they are my "old girls" in case anybody is taking a poll. i don't talk to them often and they do pinch a few fingers now and then, but i try to treat them nice so they keep on working like they should.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters: speaking of being dropped. did you 2 vises you just acquired survive the shoddy packing job they were shipped in?

I just snuck a post in whilst you were composing this post to mention that part. Realised I'd left that as a bit of a cliff hanger. The other vice was fine too. It's slightly visible in the background in some of those photo's.

by the way you asked how old my Record 6 inch vise was with the reverse mech and i'm guessing a Made In England 10 year old one.

Shame on you. Referring to an Irwin, (they're American?), as looking like an import vice.

here's a picture of it and my 170 pound Rock Island 577 that also has 6 inch jaws.

i know it's probably rare for you to see a big old 150 plus pound old US made vise on your side of the pond, but if you get a chance to use one it feels even better than Cuda's two liner about her little Reed earlier today.

or have you seen and used one and don't understand the appeal??

Must admit, I've not seen a massively large vice at all. That Model 8 I passed on last year was larger than my 7, but it was still a manageable lift type weight, so probably only around the 100lb mark or so. Either that or I'm a lot stronger than I think. It was pretty hard to test that 8 too, as it was laid on the floor and was fairly stiff to operate.

by the way since most of the vises i own and will be keeping are over 60 years old they are my "old girls" in case anybody is taking a poll. i don't talk to them often and they do pinch a few fingers now and then, but i try to treat them nice so they keep on working like they should.

Quite ironic when you think about it, ain't it. Women are normally our bane in everyday life, yet we refer to our dependable stuff as female. Weird logic there somewhere.

 

[drivesitfar]

All you have to do is turn the handle on a 150 plus pounder that is mounted properly and greased and they are not like the little ones. you'll be lifting weights and moving stuff around the shop to make room for one especially with all the big pieces of iron you work with.

your new vises look great and the search for more information on them will keep you busy too.

http://bangshift.com/blog/a-study-in-steel-incredible-video-of-a-locomotive-

one of my good friends sent me this little YouTube video about the making of a locomotive in 1935 and at about the 15 minute mark you can see what looks like about 20 or so blacksmith vises lined up only a few feet apart. Enjoy

 

[bl00]

The little Parkinson

Not seen any advertising literature which lists this type of design, and the only vague reference I have seen so far to that slide style was one of their early designs. If anyone happens to have any literature for the Parkinson/Samsonia gear that they could share, I'd be grateful.
.

It looks very similar to this Massey Perfect vise from the 1890s.

 

[Fretters]

All you have to do is turn the handle on a 150 plus pounder that is mounted properly and greased and they are not like the little ones. you'll be lifting weights and moving stuff around the shop to make room for one especially with all the big pieces of iron you work with.

your new vises look great and the search for more information on them will keep you busy too.

http://bangshift.com/blog/a-study-in-steel-incredible-video-of-a-locomotive-

one of my good friends sent me this little YouTube video about the making of a locomotive in 1935 and at about the 15 minute mark you can see what looks like about 20 or so blacksmith vises lined up only a few feet apart. Enjoy

Cheers. I'll have to try and see what I can find on the really big vice front, and see if anyone will let me have a quick play with theirs. That'll be my last shred of credibility going out of the window, asking if I can have a quick play with someones vice.

It looks very similar to this Massey Perfect vise from the 1890s.

Cheers. That bottom vice in the first image does look quite similar. Makes you wonder if there was a bit of plagiarism going on, with them even having the same name. Wonder which one designed it first.

 

[oldldh]

I hate to do this, but Matchless Antiques, they of the massive anvils, have a killer Parker 954 on Ebay...

No reserve auction, too...

I didn't know that a little 4" Parker weighed 109 lbs!!!

Looks to be a "Must Have" for a Parker aficionado...

 

[Fretters]

That looks practically pristine.

 

[bl00]

Makes you wonder if there was a bit of plagiarism going on, with them even having the same name. Wonder which one designed it first.

It's possible that one was having them made by the other, especially since they used the same name. We'll figure it out eventually.

 

[Fretters]

There definitely seems to be way too many similarities for it to be coincidence, so your your hypothesis sounds a very plausible one. Be intriguing to see what hopefully surfaces, information wise. I did find one site with some info on Parkinson's, but it's sketchy and basic.

http://www.parkinsonshipley.co.uk/

 

[Clik]

Fretters, I like that four bolt static jaw. It seems like a good way to keep tolerances tight as you can always mill the top down to tighten it up. I wonder if they had provisions to address the sides to.

 

[Outlawmws]

LMAO!!! Maybe I need more coffee here but all I can think of is "Oh Reed baby, you slide in and out so smoothly!!!!! Longer strokes, in and out! more, more, more!!!!"

That settles it. Mine's gonna have a guy's name, I don't care.

Fixed it for you Cuda chick!

 

[CudaChick1968]

Fixed it for you Cuda chick!

I owe ya one ...

 

[Provincial]

Been working on cleaning up a sad Prentiss 53 for welding table use. Got it stripped down last night. It's really not that horrible all things considered. Although who ever brazed it was not stingy with the braze. Two questions for the experts please.

1.) It appears there was a lead? washer between the dynamic jaw and the screw retainer. Any issues if I just replace this with a bronze washer?

2.) The first thread in the nut has cracked and pulled away from the rest of the nut. Amazingly the screw and remaining nut threads are in good condition. I plan on just cutting the nut back one thread where it is not cracked and getting a fresh thread start. Any problems with that? It's going to be used on a welding table for holding hot things. Not heavy press work. It was a $5 beater so please keep that in mind.

I wouldn't worry about the nut if you aren't intending to abuse the vise. I am sure that the damage came from having only the first thread engaged by the end of the screw and then either over-tightening the screw or bigcaddy's neanderthal yanking on a cheater bar on something held in the jaws. Either way, the load was taken by only the last thread of the nut, which it wasn't designed for.

A lot of damage to dynamic jaws (like breaking them off) comes from hammering on work in the direction of the dynamic jaw. The static jaw can take more load due to being more massive and carrying the impact through solid material down to the mounting area. The dynamic jaw must transmit that load through the slide and screw/nut. Neither of these parts is designed to take the impact loads.

Old blacksmiths did their pounding toward the fixed jaw of their post vises for a good reason.

 

[Fretters]

Fretters, I like that four bolt static jaw. It seems like a good way to keep tolerances tight as you can always mill the top down to tighten it up. I wonder if they had provisions to address the sides to.

Cheers. I'll check that when I take it apart, and take a few more photo's. There's nowt on that front that I can see offhand, but it is covered in a good few years worth of grime at the moment.

Not sure if I'll be doing owt with this one other than just cleaning it up with paraffin and white spirit, (there's quite a bit of sawdust in it), and tidying up those hacksaw marks a tad. There's no visible rust on it, but can't decide whether to give it a fresh coat or two of the Wine Red enamel. The same colour I used on the Swindens, which appears to be close to the original Parkinson colour too.

 

[t4runner]

I picked up these up at a sale today. I paid $56 for the lot but as it turned out the Athol had some cracks in the base and the locking lug for the static side jaw was broken. I should have seen the cracked base but I was in la la land when he agreed to the price before I unbolted it from his bench. The Parker had so much grease and what looked like under coating on it I didn't notice it had been welded until I cleaned it up. The odd looking vise I never saw before until the other day on this post. I did seen that it had a broken mounting ear, but the rest of it looks pretty good.

 

[oldldh]

Lookee---Closelee---Firstee---

Payee---Monee---Latelee---

Bad poetry, but you get the idea...

Good way to do business...you weren't burnt too bad...consider it a lesson in vise economics 101...

 

[t4runner]

Lookee---Closelee---Firstee---

Payee---Monee---Latelee---

Bad poetry, but you get the idea...

Good way to do business...you weren't burnt too bad...consider it a lesson in vise economics 101...

Live and learn thats for sure.

 

[CudaChick1968]

My newfound addiction has me surfing Craig's List more than I ever used to, and I saw these four nights ago after reading the discussion on copper jaw covers. They're heavy nylon and attach to the jaws with strong magnets. For only $5 shipped, I decided to give it a shot and they arrived in the mail yesterday.







I haven't had the chance to do anything except stick 'em on and take a few pictures, but I have the feeling they'll protect whatever I want to clamp in there.

The seller, Doug Field, an admitted vise addict in his own right, is absolutely wonderful to deal with and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend him to anyone. Here's a link to his CL ad if you're inclined to grab some up for yourself.

http://dothan.craigslist.org/tls/4330878349.html

 

[t4runner]

I am pretty sure I saw another one of this vise on this thread.I looked for a while and didn't see it. Does anyone have any information on this vise, name, age if its all there or not.

 

[bigcaddy]

I picked up these up at a sale today. I paid $56 for the lot but as it turned out the Athol had some cracks in the base and the locking lug for the static side jaw was broken. I should have seen the cracked base but I was in la la land when he agreed to the price before I unbolted it from his bench. The Parker had so much grease and what looked like under coating on it I didn't notice it had been welded until I cleaned it up. The odd looking vise I never saw before until the other day on this post. I did seen that it had a broken mounting ear, but the rest of it looks pretty good.

Isn't your Athol a quick release handle? I thought that series (7xx) with the unique operating nut had a quick release feature.

 

[t4runner]

Isn't your Athol a quick release handle? I thought that series (7xx) with the unique operating nut had a quick release feature.

It does not appear to be a quick release.

 

[Outlawmws]

I am pretty sure I saw another one of this vise on this thread.I looked for a while and didn't see it. Does anyone have any information on this vise, name, age if its all there or not.

I think that is the "Large economy size" Colton Patent vise:

George A. Colton patent holder, No. 320,224. Patented June 16, 1885. H&B, Inmarks and unmarked examples exist.

 

[Jan-Sietze]

My entire collection ...
All neatly reconditioned

















I think I'll stop collecting, maybe...

 

[jfleisher]

Picked up this little guy off Craigslist the other day, not too bad for $25.

Can't decide if I should leave it as is or strip it and repaint.

 

[Fretters]

My entire collection ...
All neatly reconditioned

Nice set you have there. Media blasted to remove rust? How come you have six washers for three leadscrews? Do the Record's have a thrust washer on the front of the housing?

 

[Fretters]

Picked up this little guy off Craigslist the other day, not too bad for $25.

Can't decide if I should leave it as is or strip it and repaint.

I'd just try rubbing the exposed metal down with a green pan scourer and some paraffin, (kerosene), first, to remove what little rust there seems to be, and go from there. I'm guessing it'll look quite tidy as is with a quick clean up.

 

[G20-Budo]

Jan-Sietze,

NICE collection.. and I like the anvil! That's a RR track anvil yes? If so who shaped it?

 

[Mark in Indiana]

My entire collection ...
All neatly reconditioned

Great looking collection!




I think I'll stop collecting, maybe...

I'd like to put money against that.

 

[Jan-Sietze]

Nice set you have there. Media blasted to remove rust? How come you have six washers for three leadscrews? Do the Record's have a thrust washer on the front of the housing?

They are indeed sandblasted and sharp corners are rounded with a right angle grinder.
There is normaly one ring behind the spring in these Paramo Vices (* The similarity with Record vices is not accidental).

Because galvanizing does not always give a good result, I let electroplating. Multiple components.



* According to The Workbench Book the Paramo vices were first produced during WW2.
Just after the Record Vice factory was bombed in 1940, there was a shortage of Vices.
It dawned on everyone by the vices of great importance for the war industry.
The British government gave permission to the foundry of F. Parramore & Sons Ltd. to produce record. Vices
The company which was the casting of steel tubes known could produce solid and precious folk vices with the knowledge and people of Record under the name Paramo.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Hello Vise Friends,

Went picking this morning. Among the truck load I bought 3 little piggies…I mean 3 big piggies. All 6" vises (2 Ridged & 1 Reed). One weighs in at 125 pounds. :eye crazy:
I have to return for the 2 steel pedestals…after my back heals.
Average cost to me was $75.00 each.

 

[Jan-Sietze]

Jan-Sietze,

NICE collection.. and I like the anvil! That's a RR track anvil yes? If so who shaped it?

That anvil is indeed a RRtrack.
I made it myself, at least 5 hours of grinding ...
Luckily this was a new piece, used rail is hardened by the train wheels.

 

[Fretters]

There is normaly one ring behind the spring in these Paramo Vices

A washer between the spring and the jaw and then another between the spring and the split pin? Every vice I've seen upto just has only had the single washer between the spring and split pin.

Apologies for calling them Record's, btw.

 

[Fretters]

Hello Vise Friends,

Went picking this morning. Among the truck load I bought 3 little piggies…I mean 3 big piggies. All 6" vises (2 Ridged & 1 Reed). One weighs in at 125 pounds. :eye crazy:
I have to return for the 2 steel pedestals…after my back heals.
Average cost to me was $75.00 each.

Very nice. Two with copper insert covers too.

 

[zkling]

I picked up these up at a sale today. I paid $56 for the lot but as it turned out the Athol had some cracks in the base and the locking lug for the static side jaw was broken.

They should be decent users for the price.

My entire collection ...
All neatly reconditioned
I think I'll stop collecting, maybe...

: I think I'm seeing a pattern here. Those look nice. Intereting to see things from your corner of the world.

Picked up this little guy off Craigslist the other day, not too bad for $25.

Can't decide if I should leave it as is or strip it and repaint.

Hey, that is a solid little vise, for a good while that was my first and only vise. Just use it with caution and it will probably serve you well. I like the style of that one over the other model renditions.

Hello Vise Friends,

Went picking this morning. Among the truck load I bought 3 little piggies…I mean 3 big piggies. All 6" vises (2 Ridged & 1 Reed). One weighs in at 125 pounds. :eye crazy:
I have to return for the 2 steel pedestals…after my back heals.
Average cost to me was $75.00 each.

As in like estate sales? How the heck does one happen onto 3 6" vises just casually? I can't imagine the average home owner having one in their garage.

 

[zkling]

I wouldn't worry about the nut if you aren't intending to abuse the vise. I am sure that the damage came from having only the first thread engaged by the end of the screw and then either over-tightening the screw or bigcaddy's neanderthal yanking on a cheater bar on something held in the jaws. Either way, the load was taken by only the last thread of the nut, which it wasn't designed for......

Thanks for the input. Hopefully it won't have any issues, I chopped the first thread off, did a little smoothing and it operates smooth. A bit of a challenge as whom ever brazed the vise back together. They used so much braze that it flooded the bottom of the nut and can't be removed.

I have presses and other smacking surfaces so vises are solely for work holding for me. It won't see hard use on my welding table.

 

[epossum]

Hi to all - I finally got it together enough to post some pics of a vise I would like to ID. I suspect is must be an import as there is no Made in USA to be found on it. The quality isn't too bad and it's survived being used by someone.

The only markings that stand out are a "B" on both the slide and the body casting. The swivel base mounting lugs are the thinnest I've seen so far. The handle ends have some kind of hard plastic washer instead of a steel knob.

Sure hope one of you can ID this. I'm going to get around to cleaning it up a bit. Not sure yet if I'll keep it.

Thanks!

Younger member of the same family my vise belongs to:

Hi, nice thread!

Here are some good quality european brands



Sambre et Meuse France

Cast steel, a very old brand, top notch quality they have the reputation of burying their owners and... their grand children...

The company's main activity is casting for the railway industry, they've been bought recently by another french company named Dolex which has its own vice range. I've heard that the vice production has stopped for the moment...
Pricey vices...

I'm sorry for the mistakes, I'm not used to write in english anymore...

François, Belgium

Hi to all! - I feel a little, well, dumb, at the moment because I didn't check all over the vise I asked for help to ID. What I didn't check thoroughly was the possibility there were markings on this vise other than the ones that were externally visible. Yup, you know what I'm going to write - I found some markings inside the slide. Call it a lesson learned - LOL. Anyway, once I hit Google and wasn't finding much using the names I found I added "vise" to the search. It sent me right here! In fact I'd already seen the picture above posted by Francois but had no idea that was related to my vise.

So, here is what I found inside the slide:

Sambre Meuse
61 8
B Tout-Acier
Made In France

I obviously have a Sambre Meuse vise. I thought it was cast steel and by what Francois posted and also the great info posted by Nate (Nates Garage) it seems it is.

I like the vise and it is actually in excellent condition for a used vise. I still have to clean it up, etc. Before I finish I just want to say I really enjoy being a member and look forward to hanging out here lots more!