Please HELP with a leak from interior garage wall

[ren20]

Hello,

I am new to the forum. And have been reading a lot, hoping to design my ideal garage space.

just purchase my first home. Did everything I can to find any existing problem. multiple kind of inspection performed before I finally committed to it.

I guess I still didn't inspect hard enough. Yesterday marked the second week after moving into my new home. It was pouring rain and I found this crazy leak from my interior garage wall. it's like running a tap.

First I thought it was bust pipe( i wasn't even sure if there was water pipe in the wall). But it wasn't the case, the water was still coming out from the wall when I shut the main water off.

If that's not it. I suspect a leak from foundation. But what do i know. Please help me out to diagnose.

see picture and vid.

The water coming out is clear. it's on the lower right of the wall in the back of garage. on the other side of the leaking wall is the basement. There is no pipe running into that wall on the basement side.

I am trying my best to get a plumber over at the moment. But if you have any idea, would love to hear your opinion. Let me know if you need more info.

Please excuse me for a sucky first post.

 

[David C]

Is the top of the visible leak above exterior grade or below?

 

[METALMOVER]

I think Id be calling a foundation repair company, and a gutter guy. Good luck MM

 

[Kevin54]

Is that you standing there looking at the wall the leak is in? You will have to go up higher and see if you have water running down in the blocks. Or if the leak is below the area where you are standing, you may have water running in that area.

A leak like that with concrete between the buildings can be a real ***** kitty. My dads neighbor had a leak in his basement and it was coming from the patio. Nothing was ever sealed outside when the houses were built way back when.

Also, you don't state where you live. If you would put it in your profile, just the general State or Country, it would better help to answer questions

 

[ren20]

Is the top of the visible leak above exterior grade or below?

it's below the exterior grade. the basement on the other side is actually sitting higher. about two blocks above the garage floor. and behind the house is the cliff.

see pic

 

[ren20]

Is that you standing there looking at the wall the leak is in? You will have to go up higher and see if you have water running down in the blocks. Or if the leak is below the area where you are standing, you may have water running in that area.

A leak like that with concrete between the buildings can be a real ***** kitty. My dads neighbor had a leak in his basement and it was coming from the patio. Nothing was ever sealed outside when the houses were built way back when.

Also, you don't state where you live. If you would put it in your profile, just the general State or Country, it would better help to answer questions

Kevin, I live in edgewater nj. My contractor came over yesterday. He thinks the water is overflowing from waterbed under the basement, the basement sits about two blocks higher than the garage floor. There is a drain close to the middle of the garage. we could see water running under the slab. So, instead of flowing under the foundation, the water rushes into the garage.

My contractor suggest me to redo the garage floor(or portion) and that portion of wall to build a better drainage.

what pisses me off is that my inspection guy didnt see this hole, the pre owner didn't disclose the problem. my agent had contacted the pre owner for me and they refused to acknowledge there was ever a leak.

let me know if you need more info.

 

[ren20]

any more thoughts?

i had two contractor/builders came in to take a look.

one suggests to get rid of the old floor. put perforated pipe around the perimeter of the floor to redirect the water better. and also put the perforated pipe around the house to help the drain. Because the location of the house is under the cliff.

 

[ren20]

the contractor quoted me $5400 to redo the floor and drain in the garage, include rebar, material, removal of old concrete. about $10 per sq/f

 

[Zeke]

That doesn't sound too bad for that work but how does it solve your problem? You don't want running water anywhere near your foundation, slab, retaining wall, etc. The water needs to be collected away from the building.

I'd like to see pics of this 'cliff'. Why would anyone build a house next to a cliff. Out here we lose houses all the time when we have wet winters (been awhile).

 

[Grayguy]

Does this basement that's 16"s (2 blocks) above/behind the garage have a sump pump?

Around here there is always water running around/ under slabs and foundations, that's what happens when you build on Hills. That's what interior drain tile, exterior drain tile, and sump pits/pumps are for.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[Garage Dog]

Kevin, I live in edgewater nj. My contractor came over yesterday. He thinks the water is overflowing from waterbed under the basement, the basement sits about two blocks higher than the garage floor. There is a drain close to the middle of the garage. we could see water running under the slab. So, instead of flowing under the foundation, the water rushes into the garage.

My contractor suggest me to redo the garage floor(or portion) and that portion of wall to build a better drainage.

what pisses me off is that my inspection guy didnt see this hole, the pre owner didn't disclose the problem. my agent had contacted the pre owner for me and they refused to acknowledge there was ever a leak.

let me know if you need more info.

Welcome Ren,

1. What exactly do you mean by "waterbed"?

2. When you say you could see water running under the slab what does that mean exactly, is that looking in the drain you describe close to the middle of garage? Can you describe the drain are you looking at?

3. Do you have a sump pump or a place that drain tile drains to daylight that you know of?

4. From what you are describing, the previous owner certainly knew that there was a significant issue. I would try to get them to put it in writing. Did you sign an "AS-IS Addendum" as part of the purchase agreement? You may want to investigate/document this further before doing repairs if you plan on seeking any recourse. I would ask some neighbors about it also.

It sounds like you are describing a bunch of water running down the hillside (cliff), then under your foundation, then into your garage and maybe some under your garage slab?

From what you are describing you have a water issue that could eventually erode the foundation (if I understand your description properly).

What should be happening is that the water from the hillside should be controlled via grading first, then some type of foundation waterproofing and drain tile system so it does not go under/or into your foundation. Some houses will have both interior and exterior drain tile to prevent this sort of problem.

I don't see how re-pouring the slab and building up the wall in the garage addresses the root cause of your issue. It could actually back the water up and force it to go elsewhere that would cause a different problem.

I would have a basement waterproofing company look at you situation to determine a water abatement plan that will address the root cause - you need a guaranteed fix with a warranty if at all possible IMHO.

Just a few thoughts to ponder based on the description you provided.

Good Luck

 

[kbs2244]

Garage dog has the right idea.

I can see your neighbor is having work done.
Does he have the same type of problem?

I would also inspect the top of the hill.
Is there a street up there?
If so how good is the curb/gutter system?

A street can collect a huge amount of water.
It should be going into a storm drain, or a surface street gutter system to a downhill street.
It may be time to talk to the city street department.

 

[ren20]

Does this basement that's 16"s (2 blocks) above/behind the garage have a sump pump?

Around here there is always water running around/ under slabs and foundations, that's what happens when you build on Hills. That's what interior drain tile, exterior drain tile, and sump pits/pumps are for.

There ins't sump pump in basement. basement is dry. We will need to think of a solution to add french drain around the house. problem is that right side (facing the house) of the house is finished with concrete.

That doesn't sound too bad for that work but how does it solve your problem? You don't want running water anywhere near your foundation, slab, retaining wall, etc. The water needs to be collected away from the building.

I'd like to see pics of this 'cliff'. Why would anyone build a house next to a cliff. Out here we lose houses all the time when we have wet winters (been awhile).

I will take better picture of the cliff. We still don't have enough daylight after 7pm. The houses on this whole block were built this way. the house was built in 1930.

 

[ren20]

Welcome Ren,

1. What exactly do you mean by "waterbed"?
I believe I meant "water table"? water running underground
sorry for the lacks of correct terminologies. I am new to home ownership. everything is new to me

2. When you say you could see water running under the slab what does that mean exactly, is that looking in the drain you describe close to the middle of garage? Can you describe the drain are you looking at?
the drain i mentioned is a circular hole 4-5" in diameter. It goes thru the slab all the way to the bottom. It seems to me whatever passage under the slab was built this way to direct water. and there was water running when I looked.

3. Do you have a sump pump or a place that drain tile drains to daylight that you know of?
no sump pump, the passageway under the slab could be the "old school drain tile". but i dont think there is anything around the perimeter. tho it does look like work has been done in the past. different shades of concretes at the area.

4. From what you are describing, the previous owner certainly knew that there was a significant issue. I would try to get them to put it in writing. Did you sign an "AS-IS Addendum" as part of the purchase agreement? You may want to investigate/document this further before doing repairs if you plan on seeking any recourse. I would ask some neighbors about it also.
Yes, will review. Will have a chat with my attorney as soon as I have all the info ready.

It sounds like you are describing a bunch of water running down the hillside (cliff), then under your foundation, then into your garage and maybe some under your garage slab?
YES

From what you are describing you have a water issue that could eventually erode the foundation (if I understand your description properly).
Could you explain this to me more?

What should be happening is that the water from the hillside should be controlled via grading first, then some type of foundation waterproofing and drain tile system so it does not go under/or into your foundation. Some houses will have both interior and exterior drain tile to prevent this sort of problem.

I don't see how re-pouring the slab and building up the wall in the garage addresses the root cause of your issue. It could actually back the water up and force it to go elsewhere that would cause a different problem.
I agree, I will have to investigate further. The water just stopped running as of last night. I am hoping to redo the garage floor in the near future. to install maxjax

I would have a basement waterproofing company look at you situation to determine a water abatement plan that will address the root cause - you need a guaranteed fix with a warranty if at all possible IMHO.


Just a few thoughts to ponder based on the description you provided.

Good Luck

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[ren20]

this is the back of the house.

to the right side the picture. the cliff continues to elevate.

 

[ren20]

Garage dog has the right idea.

I can see your neighbor is having work done.
Does he have the same type of problem?

I would also inspect the top of the hill.
Is there a street up there?
If so how good is the curb/gutter system?

A street can collect a huge amount of water.
It should be going into a storm drain, or a surface street gutter system to a downhill street.
It may be time to talk to the city street department.

The neighbor on the left is new construction. they are building a duplex. behind the building there is a huge retainer wall . Perhaps I could steal that idea. Just dont know how I can do it.

The street on top of the cliff is different town. I hope this isn't going to be a difficult task. I know this sounds stupid. But I've never been up there overlooking my home

 

[Bronson]

First, welcome to the GJ.
I did not quite grasp the location of the leak in relation to the interior.
In the photo below, I notice someone has attempted to waterproof/caulk at gap at the bottom of the exterior wall. Notice the gaping crack in the caulk.
Is this adjacent to the problem area?
If not, it looks like has/will cause problems in the future.
Water runs downhill.....

 

[Garage Dog]

Hello,

I am new to the forum. And have been reading a lot, hoping to design my ideal garage space.

just purchase my first home. Did everything I can to find any existing problem. multiple kind of inspection performed before I finally committed to it.

I guess I still didn't inspect hard enough. Yesterday marked the second week after moving into my new home. It was pouring rain and I found this crazy leak from my interior garage wall. it's like running a tap.

First I thought it was bust pipe( i wasn't even sure if there was water pipe in the wall). But it wasn't the case, the water was still coming out from the wall when I shut the main water off.

If that's not it. I suspect a leak from foundation. But what do i know. Please help me out to diagnose.

see picture and vid.

The water coming out is clear. it's on the lower right of the wall in the back of garage. on the other side of the leaking wall is the basement. There is no pipe running into that wall on the basement side.

From what you are describing you have a water issue that could eventually erode the foundation (if I understand your description properly).

Could you explain this to me more?

Ren,

In your description above, you make it sound like there is a rather significant amount of water moving under the foundation (see words in bold type). Moving water creates erosion, it sounds like you have a fair amount of water moving down the slope your house sits on. I am not saying this will happen to you but I have certainly seen foundations on a hillside be be under cut by water run-off.

Foundations are designed to be built on sound dry compacted material. Soil that is continually saturated can also become unstable and eventually erode in some circumstances.

Couple other Thoughts:

1. It seems plausible from your description that there is an old drain tile system under the house. How old is the house?

The reason I ask is that old drain tile was clay, clay pipes can be susceptible to cracking and breaking. If one run of the tile broke it could cause problems like you have, but leave the remaining portion of the drain tile system working (as you describe under the garage floor).

Somehow you need to get a better understanding of what you currently have and how it works.

How long are the wall(s) that are built into the hillside?

2. Referring to the picture you posted of the stone wall in back of your house - the ground between the stone wall and the foundation should slope back towards the stone wall (not toward the foundation as it is now). It should also slope to one side so it has a place to run off. Lots of different ways to accomplish what I am describing, but the way you have it now is not the way I would have it if it were mine.

3. If in fact the drain in your garage does drain into a drain tile, that then drains in to a storm sewer, it is probably illegal. At least it would be in MN. You understand how they don't want the possibility of getting oil or gas from a car draining into the storm drains. My point being if the city inspector has any part of this or later improvements for a lift, they could make you bring it up to code if you pull permits, which could get tricky.

Again, just a few thoughts to consider.

GD

 

[ren20]

Ren,

Couple other Thoughts:

1. It seems plausible from your description that there is an old drain tile system under the house. How old is the house?
House was built 1930, still standing. I really hope they have overbuilt this thing back in the days

The reason I ask is that old drain tile was clay, clay pipes can be susceptible to cracking and breaking. If one run of the tile broke it could cause problems like you have, but leave the remaining portion of the drain tile system working (as you describe under the garage floor).

Somehow you need to get a better understanding of what you currently have and how it works.

the drain was definitely made with clay from back in the days. but it's difficult to tell how the system works without ripping the garage.

How long are the wall(s) that are built into the hillside?

I need to get better measurement. do you have an idea what kind of data i should provide?

2. Referring to the picture you posted of the stone wall in back of your house - the ground between the stone wall and the foundation should slope back towards the stone wall (not toward the foundation as it is now). It should also slope to one side so it has a place to run off. Lots of different ways to accomplish what I am describing, but the way you have it now is not the way I would have it if it were mine.

Completely agree with you. If I were to modify the that area. would you suggest I fill more soil or dig it deep towards the rock wall? Is it possible to put french drain in that area then direct the water to the left side of the house? right side of the house is concrete.


3. If in fact the drain in your garage does drain into a drain tile, that then drains in to a storm sewer, it is probably illegal. At least it would be in MN. You understand how they don't want the possibility of getting oil or gas from a car draining into the storm drains. My point being if the city inspector has any part of this or later improvements for a lift, they could make you bring it up to code if you pull permits, which could get tricky.

a contractor came in and gave me the same impression as you described. They said they would redo the garage floor with new drain tile.


GD

Is sump pump an option i can consider?

the water kept on running for about 5 days after the storm.

 

[ren20]

this is what it looks like from the hillside. there has been a couple small rains and one major storm. The place was dry in most the of the rains. except the major storm. I haven't got time to do the garden yet. I think as soon as i lift up some of the stones. i can get an idea how far the wall extend to the hillside.

 

[APEowner]

I think you need an engineer not a contractor to look at this situation. I looks to me as if you have a significant groundwater management problem outside of the house. Anytime you build up against/into a hill side you need to look at the whole water flow picture starting as far away from the house as you can. A contractor is going to give you information on how to attempt to fix the problem using the tools that they have at their disposal whereas an engineer will look at the whole picture.

One of the things I'd be looking into is if they new construction next door is diverting a significant amount of water onto your property. It's possible the the previous owner really didn't have a problem and that the new construction created it.

 

[ren20]

the new construction does have a big retainer wall on the back, i also see a french drain along side the wall to the side of the building.

yes, i also had a structural engineer took a look. he will write me a report.

 

[Red Goat]

it may be helpful to get a sewer scope guy come out and run his camera into this drain pipe. Not only will it tell you about the condition of the pipe, but he should be able to tell you were it goes using his metal detector device.

Also agree that if there is evidence that this has been an ongoing problem and the previous owners did not disclose it during the due diligence phase of the sale, you may have some financial recourse.

Good Luck!