Must have wood working equipment

[Heavy tech]

Going to start building my wood shop this spring if this 3' of snow ever melts. I have gotten by for a long time with just a circular saw a sliding compound mitre saw and a jig saw. I build a little of everything. Rough framing to cabinets.

The first purchase will be a table saw. Hoping to find a good used belt drive saw with a cast top. Am I right in thinking these are better saws?Don't have a lot of money to spend and any of the box store saws in my price range seem like overpriced junk. I figure as long as the top is flat and not tweaked so badly that it can't be set square to the blade I should be alright. Am I right here or is there more to it?

What should I think about after that? Router and table? Jointer? Band saw? What are your guys' most used equipment? I can't really say what I will be building the most of. Truthfully it depends on what the wife saw on Pinterest that day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mavawreck]

Router, table saw, and planer would be my start. Band saw and jointer to follow. Start buying all the clamps you can find at garage sales. Nothing worse than needing a clamp and having to pay $30 at Lowes.

 

[MN4x4]

If you are going to be doing a lot with sheet goods, consider a track saw.

I have a very expensive cabinetmakers table saw and I'm happy that I have it, but if I were starting out again one of the first tools I'd buy is a Festool track saw. I can break down sheet goods faster, easier, and more accurately than I can on my table saw because I move the saw, NOT the material. The accuracy and quality is INCREDIBLE. And with sheets of MDF weighing nearly 100 lbs, you don't wanna wrestle them more than you have to. Also, the Track Saw takes up almost NO space when you're not using it, unlike a table saw.

I resisted buying one for years, but now I smile every time I use it and think "why did I wait so long"? No, they're not cheap - but they absolutely will change the way you work.

And I am NOT saying you won't want a table saw...just that you will use it differently. You will find a table saw really handy for cutting multiple narrow pieces, like stiles and rails and the like. But I'll bet you'll never again use it for a piece of sheet goods bigger than about 2' x 2'.

Ask me how I know...



(No affiliation - just a happy customer, blah, blah, etc.)

 

[jakemac]

a DUST COLLECTOR !!!!!!!

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=Dust+collector

I have the 2hp 70gal one that I got 4 years ago, and it's still going strong. Although, it does trip the 20a breaker sometimes during start-up, with nothing else on the circuit.

Even a lightly used wood shop can become a fire hazard with thick sawdust build-up in no time at all. It gets EVERYWHERE.

 

[Jim C.]

You're heading down a slippery slope! I think you're smart to get a good table saw because so much of woodworking happens using that one machine. Still, it can't do everything, and one thing will lead to another. As you gain more skill and experience, you'll have many "If I only had ______." moments, kind of like your current need/desire for a table saw. Machinery can be addicting all by itself. Besides a table saw, I think that the basics in a home woodworking shop should at least include a band saw, drill press, jointer and planer. Other machines that are useful, but could be acquired a little later rather than sooner might include a radial arm saw, shaper, lathe and scroll saw. I guess the actual order of purchases depends on the type of work you anticipate doing. Woodworking machines create dust, so some kind of pro-active dust collection is essential. Hand held power tools such as a router, cordless drill, and saber saw are great additions too. Then there's all the hand tools that include a few hand planes, chisels, hand saws, precise measuring tools, lots of clamps, etc. etc., etc. Yes, you're on a slippery slope!!

Jim C.

 

[MN4x4]

a DUST COLLECTOR !!!!!!!

+1 on jakemac's recommendation.

Dust can be an annoyance, irritant, fire hazard, or carcinogen. Anything you can do to minimize it is more important than most people imagine.

In addition to a dust collector, consider a ceiling-mounted powered filter system that deals with the dust that escapes anyway. I have two of them in my shop that are multi-speed. I can leave one on low while I sand, or turn them both on high to really pull dust out of the air, like when I sweep up.

If you see the **** collected on the filter, you'd never want that black grunge ending up in your lungs!!!

 

[catalytic]

I have been woodworking since I was a kid (professionally for a short time) and I have also rebuilt one of just about every machine you'd see in a cabinet shop. Everything obviously depends on what you want to make and also whether you're starting with rough stock.

If you start with rough stock, then it's usually: (1) Cut to rough length (radial arm saw / miter saw / hand saw with big teeth). (2) Run on Jointer to establish one flat side. (3) Planer to get parallel flat side. (4) Table saw to get other 2 sides. Now you have a board to start woodworking

That said, if you can get ahold of some finished (not rough-sawn) lumber and don't plan to do much curved work, then there's a lot you can build with a good table saw. A router would be a good next step.

I personally would not buy any new free-standing machine that is sold in a retail location (possibly with the exception of the SawStop -- it's one of the only new woodworking machines where the tolerances and design have not disappointed me...obviously, the critique does not apply to Northfield, etc.). Instead, I highly recommend that you consider some older American Iron. Delta Unisaws come up all the time for $200-700 in good usable shape. You will likely have to change out the bearings to the tune of $50. Then you will have a really capable saw. The OWWM.org forum has a ton of info on various old American machines, their advantages/disadvantages, and how to take them apart and service them.

If you give a little better idea of your location and the first couple of projects you have in mind, then I can provide better info.

**Edit -- I should add, please read extensively about table saw safety before you try to use one. I have seen other people have wood pieces shot through them, put thumbs to blades, etc. first hand. Similarly, I have had a 3hp router spit a 2" long laminate trim bit at me. These are safe and predictable machines when you have double checked that everything is working and when you know how to use them, but this is worth some thought/attention.

 

[bushmechanic]

This is going to sound really, really, really stupid, so prepare yourselves...




I bought a Rockwell Bladerunner.

I thought I'd give it a shot for tinkering with computers, because sometimes it's nice to do things in the office, and most of what you end up doing is pretty small stuff.

That thing is addictive. I don't use my band saw nearly as often now, even for larger projects. I'd have loved to have this thing when I did more woodwork. It's also great for jigsaw work, because you don't have to set a bunch of stuff up, and aren't tempted to simply hold something on a table for a quick cut.

It really is as easy to pull off the wall and carry about as they say, and of course it's simply an upside down jigsaw, so there's no end of specialist blades you can buy at any store.

I'm not saying it's a must have, but I'd call it a "should try".

I picked up the Jawhorse when the discount was linked here, and that's just as useful. Great for a one-person shop. I've got a radiator in mine right now.

Whoever those people are have genuinely thought things through.

 

[cyato]

If you are going to be doing a lot with sheet goods, consider a track saw.

Completely agree with MN4X4! Unless you have the space and are willing to commit to a permanent table saw bolted to the ground and with proper out feed table, I would prefer to have a track saw. I have the Makita and have used the Festool (both are great). I would check out some youtube vids on a track saw being used.

If I were to start from scratch, I would buy in this order:

1. Track Saw (with long and short guide tracks)
2. Sliding Compound Miter saw
3. Inverted Router Table
4. Table saw (with high quality rip fence)

Dust collection is also extremely important.

Good luck!

 

[ibedayank]

not a table saw.... cabinet saw

 

[cashishift]

Bosch Axial miter saw

 

[paulsomlo]

Jointer (no such thing as too big), planer, bandsaw (the bigger, the better), miter saw, dust collector. Those are the major ones. I agree with the others regarding the track saw; I have the festool, which works really well. Although the general consensus in the woodworking world is that you can't possibly make anything without a table saw, it's just not true. I don't own a table saw, don't have the space for one, and rarely wish that I had one. Sometimes when I need to crosscut a large panel and need to setup the track saw, I'll long for the convenience of a table saw or when I need a rip miter cut on a narrow piece. My bandsaw is my go to machine for all my ripping - it's safe and easy as far as dust collection (would you reach around the back of the blade on your table saw to pull a piece of stock through?). And, in spite of the common wisdom, a bandsaw can rip very straight. If I were to have a table saw, it would be one of those big european sliders. I agree with Catalytic - if you do buy yourself a table saw, buy a used one, a unisaw or some other old american iron. They're out there and they're cheap.

 

[MN4x4]

Bosch Axial miter saw

I don't own one, but I agree that this is an excellent choice. This is the exact model that I like:

Bosch 12 in. Dual Bevel Glide Miter Saw
Model # GCM12SD

Smooth as silk!

 

[MN4x4]

OH - and as far as a table saw if you want one, I'd SERIOUSLY look at the SawStop products. I don't own one, but wish I did!

They are priced on par with other similar saws, but there is a LOT to be said for technology that can save your fingers if you make one stupid mistake! If I were starting woodworking again and decided that I needed a table saw, I'm pretty sure that I would be buying a Saw Stop.

Again, no affiliation, not even a customer, blah, blah, etc.

 

[cashishift]

I don't own one, but I agree that this is an excellent choice. This is the exact model that I like:

Bosch 12 in. Dual Bevel Glide Miter Saw
Model # GCM12SD

Smooth as silk!

I made the mistake of messing with one at the tool store here.

Huge mistake.

I've mentioned it to my wife twice. Pretty sure she tuned me out.

 

[Jmatlock88]

but if I were starting out again one of the first tools I'd buy is a Festool track saw.

This!

 

[Jmatlock88]

One more must-have item is the subcompact ("Pocket") driver. Today's 10.8V (12V Max) brushless drivers are yesterday's 18V drivers. They put so much power in the palm of your hand and last so long that you'll find yourself rarely reaching for the heavy drill anymore.

 

[MN4x4]

One more must-have item is the subcompact ("Pocket") driver. Today's 10.8V (12V Max) brushless drivers are yesterday's 18V drivers. They put so much power in the palm of your hand and last so long that you'll find yourself rarely reaching for the heavy drill anymore.

Agreed! Jmatlock88 is dead-on with this comment.

I am partial to the Milwaukee M12 products, but whatever you decide on will put you miles ahead of anybody's 5-year-old 18 volt stuff at half the weight.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The first purchase will be a table saw. Hoping to find a good used belt drive saw with a cast top.

I would add you want cast iron left and right extensions. A good solid fence is a must.

There are always a lot of older Craftsman saw for sale on CL for good prices. If you find one with the features you mentioned, at a reasonable price, jump on it. You can always upgrade the fence after the fact. Don't let a bit of surface rust scare you. Steel wool can usually fix that.

Depending on what kind of material you are working with, you will need and out feed rollers or a table and possibly a side table.

A track saw is really only useful if you are going to be working with full size sheets of plywood.

Again, depending on what you are planning on doing, you might want a drill press, mortiser, oscillating spindle sander and fixed belt/disc sander.

 

[catalytic]

...I would prefer to have a track saw. I have the Makita and have used the Festool (both are great). I would check out some youtube vids on a track saw being used.

Good luck!

I actually disagree with this advice. Table saws are not just for ripping and cross cutting... they also dado and cut tenons and rabbets and stuff, which you're going to want to be able to do if you try your hand at some furniture.

Track saws are awesome, but I would never recommend starting a shop with one unless you're really all about plywood. But even if you're building with plywood -- boxes and such -- then you likely should rabbet the joints. So you're back to needing a table saw.

 

[MN4x4]

A track saw is really only useful if you are going to be working with full size sheets of plywood.

I have to respectfully disagree. I also used to think this until I owned one.

From the Festool website:

The Festool track saw and guide rail system offers the versatility and capability to achieve incredible results regardless of your task. Professionals have discovered how to replace the functionality of a table saw, cabinet saw, miter saw and radial arm saw with our track saw system.

(Note: In my opinion 'replace' might be a bit of an overstatement. In some cases it's certainly true - i.e., I will never do another compound cut on my table saw. That doesn't mean I might not still want or need some of the tools mentioned above!)

Cutting sheet goods and plywood

Break down sheets of material quickly and safely without the struggle of lifting material to a saw top.

Jointing

True edges of lumber without leaving blade marks. Cuts are glue-ready surfaces.

Scribe Lines

Trim doors efficiently and accurately even adding back-bevels with ease.

Precise Angles

Achieve compound angle cuts without complex calculations by beveling the saw and angling the guide rail.

Crosscuts

Alone or combined with Festool's MFT/3 table, crosscuts are safe, precise and splinter-free.

Insets

Quickly cut insets in panels with unparalleled ease.

Countertops

Material specific blades always provide superb cut quality even on solid surface and laminates.

Flooring

Great for crosscutting flooring or plunging into a field of hardwood to remove a damaged board.

Bevels & Miters

Great for crosscutting flooring or plunging into a field of hardwood to remove a damaged board.

 

[MN4x4]

I actually disagree with this advice. Table saws are not just for ripping and cross cutting... they also dado and cut tenons and rabbets and stuff, which you're going to want to be able to do if you try your hand at some furniture.

Track saws are awesome, but I would never recommend starting a shop with one unless you're really all about plywood. But even if you're building with plywood -- boxes and such -- then you likely should rabbet the joints. So you're back to needing a table saw.

And I respectfully disagree with your advice. This is another example of "we have always done it this way" thinking, and I *was* as guilty of it as anyone.

Background - In most of the EU, doing dadoes and rabbets on a table saw is actually ILLEGAL because of how dangerous the operation is. Why does this matter? Because I suspect we are not long from OSHA banning these operations on a table saw here as well. I don't think it will be too long until you can't even buy a new dado blade set.

Most of these operations (in small shops without CNC machines, etc.) are now done either with a guarded shaper (rabbet) or a router on a track system (rabbets and dados) which the Festool and other brand rails also support.

And it is a BOATLOAD faster to change the bit in a router and set it up to do a dado than it is to install and 'tweak' a set of dado blades in a table saw. WAAAAYYY faster!!!

Now, if I'm doing a through-dado for a piece of 1/4" material, I admit that I might just make multiple passes on the table saw because that might even be quicker than setting up a bit in the router. I haven't used my dado blades since I bought my track saw and router, and will probably sell them sooner rather than later.

My point is, no way is a table saw 'necessary' for these operations anymore. It's not even my first choice although I already have the equipment!

 

[ddawg16]

Some good suggestions...but based on what the OP already has and wants to do....

Good table saw....

Lots of clamps....

Biscuit cutter

Kreg pocket hole cutter

I have the Ryobi table saw...one side of it has a router mounted on it....hence, it can use the same rip fence as the saw.

I won't mention that I have 4 routers....5 drills...etc, etc, etc....

As for cutting big sheets....table saw works fine if you have someone to help.

 

[MN4x4]

Apologies to all if I hijacked this thread. I am passionate about woodworking, and when I get on a streak I sometimes get carried away. Looking back through the thread, I think it might be time for me to shut up and let others chime in.

I'll go take my meds and lie down now....

Sorry!

 

[Heavy tech]

I have been lusting after a track saw and a pocket hole jig for some time now. I think I could get by ok with a saw board/homemade track saw jig for a while at least. All my plywood projects this winter required all the rips to be the same width, so I just got Home Depot to rip them on their panel saw.

The more I think about it, I think a router is next after the table saw. Freud?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikefromme]

First purchase -- festool track saw and dust collector... I also have big iron sitting around collecting dust since I drank the kool-aid.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Apologies to all if I hijacked this thread. I am passionate about woodworking, and when I get on a streak I sometimes get carried away.

A track saw is a good "addition" but I would not recommend it to a rookie as a primary tool for a couple of reasons.

The "good ones", like Festool, are INCREDIBLY expense. IMHO, well beyond the "you get what you pay for". (I think you are paying a lot for "German" engineering.)

Second, getting "the most" out of a track saw takes experience. Admittedly I am a rookie woodworker, but I would never think of using a track saw for most of the operations you mentioned.

 

[theoldwizard1]

All my plywood projects this winter required all the rips to be the same width, so I just got Home Depot to rip them on their panel saw.

This is by far the best thing to do for a beginner ! Despite their signs about accuracy, it is all up to the operator and they can be within 1/8" of your spec.

Best advice is to have your long rips done oversized and then cut them to size on your table saw at home. Or have the reference edge be "the best" factory edge and make a cuts relative to that. Plan for waste, (There is no way to get 3 - 16" panels out of a 48" wide sheet; Plan for no more than 15-15½") or tell the saw operator that all of the cut must come out the same identical width and let them figure it out.

The more I think about it, I think a router is next after the table saw. Freud?

Don't go big dollar on your first router ! You will wind up own several if you really stay into woodworking. General purpose (including possible use with a router table), plunge and laminate trim.

You can find nearly new Craftsman routers on CL cheap ! Remember, the money in routing is in the bits ! You can quickly spend double or triple your investment in a handful of carbide bits.

 

[shoot summ]

These types of questions can get a lot of good answers, and you can obviously tell, everyone has their own bias based on what they do from a woodworking perspective.

What you need, depends on what you want to do. General tinkering, then a table saw is a great foundation tool. If you aren't doing a lot of sheet goods, or heavy ripping then many of the portable saws are fine for a beginner, just stick with a better brand name.

A good miter saw is crucial, router and bits, and even a router table. Sanders obviously, and dust control, air nailers, jig saw, chisels, scrapers, etc.

For me, with limited space, I don't see a need for a joiner. I have a local wood supplier that will join the edges of boards for me, and I've never used a joiner for glue ups, my table saw does just fine.

A track saw is intriguing to me, but honestly I can break down a sheet with a circular saw and a straight edge, or just have the it done on a panel saw at my wood supplier.

I like to spend money on tools, but I can't seem to jump into the Festool koolaid, looks like nice stuff, and surely worth it for a full time pro, I'm just a weekend warrior, so they don't fit for me.

 

[theoldwizard1]

As for cutting big sheets....table saw works fine if you have someone to help.

And a fence that can go 25" !

 

[sselander]

Grizzly has a track saw now, maybe with a few tweaks it would be worthwhile

I noticed a review on it on the Wood Whisperer website
http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/grizzly-track-saw-review/

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Track-Saw/T10687

 

[Steinmetz]

"...Why does this matter? Because I suspect we are not long from OSHA banning these operations on a table saw here as well. I don't think it will be too long until you can't even buy a new dado blade set…."

OSHA has no jurisdiction to act in one's home wood shop.

 

[Duker]

Some good suggestions...but based on what the OP already has and wants to do....

As for cutting big sheets....table saw works fine if you have someone to help.

Yeah that is one issue for a table saw if handling large sheet stock especially if you have no help. That is where the track saw does have some advantages over the table saw in addition to portability.

I have both a Festool Track saw and a Sawstop table saw so for me it boils down to quality, speed and convenience in choosing which one to use.

To overcome the limits of cutting large sheet goods I installed a Jet swing arm table to my table saw (which is much more solid and accurate than the Excalilbur table I had before.) I went that option as I didn't have the space for a separate panel saw. The only time I use my Track saw now is when I help a friend or do something like a Habitat for Humanity build and need to be portable.

So in imho, like any tool decision in the end it boils down to needs and budget. If you need accuracy and portability and some flexibility then the track saws are tough to beat. If your budget allows I would opt for the table saw as it offers accuracy, speed, repeatability, power (try ripping a treated 4"x4" on a track saw) and flexibility like cutting dadoes and miters etc and non ferrous metals.

 

[Jswain]

Good advice in here, I would also skip on the track saw or at least until you had everything else mentioned in this thread. If you want to break down full sheets you can make a sled for a circular saw and get basically the same thing for a very small fraction of the price. My woodshop in the basement I have basically nothing into and it involved getting older equipment off the internet for free or very cheap that just needed new wiring, a cleanup, and a tune up.

A tablesaw is what I would first recommend, because of the versatility of it you can essentially make jigs to do damn near every cut imaginable quickly and very precisely. A radial arm saw once setup is also a very good choice and can usually be had from free-$50, I use mine setup dead on 0 degrees and have it always setup for crosscuts. A drill press with a homemade table/fence is also very nice to have. A jigsaw/scrollsaw/bandsaw for making any of your circular cuts makes life easy. As many clamps in different shapes and sizes as you can shake a stick at. And don't forget to have a set(doesn't have to be huge) of sharp chisels.

You will also probably want some form of a powered sander for finishing all of your projects if you hate sanding as much as the rest of the world. I can't say my dewalt 1/4 sheet is the best, but I can advise you to stay away from the rigid 1/4 sheet because after about an hour of using it with anything thicker then 120 it will wear out the plastic retainer so much it will no longer retain the sandpaper making it useless.

To keep everything on a budget look on craigslist or whatever is popular in your area for the older stuff, if you can find a table saw with an extension wing on either side it will make things a lot easier.

 

[Mavawreck]

http://www.rockler.com/porter-cable..._campaign=PL&gclid=COSN9KHZyb0CFcFlOgodQggAkA

My favorite palm sander, hands down. Not as aggressive as the random orbit which is also a good sander;


http://www.rockler.com/porter-cable..._campaign=PL&gclid=CMSstMDZyb0CFUuXOgodRlMAWg

But I prefer the speed bloc having owned both, also I find it easier to control in corners without gouging.

 

[Silver Heels]

I agree with what others have said about a good tablesaw being a worthwhile investment and the starting point of a wood shop, but I disagree with those that say a cast iron table saw or cabinet saw is should be a saw of choice. In a dedicated cabinet shop there is no equal, but unless you are a professional working in a very sizeable shop, they are nearly immobile, especially if you want to move to the driveway to do lots of cutting or ripping very long stock.

I have a portable Ridgid, can rip stock of any length if I use an outfeed table, has the capacity and the heft to rip sheets of plywood in half, has a very precise fence, yet is direct drive so its light enough to get in the back of a truck myself. I would be lost without this saw.

I also feel that the stand for a miter saw is as important as the saw itself. My saw on a dewalt stand can trim the end of a 16' board without me having to fight to keep the end of the board planted to the saw. Many are too small or flimsy to be of much use

 

[Voi]

Haven't read the entire thread, but my last wood shop was very much table saw centered. I loved designing or copying designs of various jigs, sleds and fixtures to increase the versatility of my table saw.

As far as milling rough sawn wood, remember that you can joint stock on a planer but you can't plane stock on a jointer.

So if you want to start with just one then start with a planer and look up how to build a face jointing planer sled. People have also built sleds for edge jointing on a planer but I haven't done so. I had a jig for jointing edges on my table saw so I never bothered.

When you do get around to buying a jointer get the biggest one you can afford. The length of the table/bed is more important to me than the width, especially the outfeed side. Width is nice too, though.

When you have both I suspect you'll find yourself using the jointer more but I still think the planer is the better tool to start with due to its versatility.

I always cut down my sheet goods with a shop made circular saw jig but these new track saws seem really nice. Certainly leave a better edge than my jig.