Clik
Well-known member
Is an Eron related to a Record?
The VISES of Garage Journal
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- Start date
HunterMike
Well-known member
Not sure, from what I have found on this thread is they were made in Japan. I was hoping someone here could tell me more about them. COO? Date range? Etc
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HunterMike
Well-known member
Here is what I found online. (what did we ever do before the intraweb? Oh yea, encyclopedia's and public libraries).
In 1560, the ancestor of the Okamoto family established the foundry under the charter by the Royal Court of Emperor of Japan. Making the home and building appliances for the main part, the most remarkably, a number of temple bells from generation to generation, one of the oldest foundry in Japan had been maintained down to the end of 19th century.
In early 20th century, we had changed our products to Kitchen utensils, Smoothing irons etc. for export, except our traditional item of temple bells.
In the latter half of 1940's, we began to manufacture the industrial tools such as vises, clamps, taking use of our own casting materials and the brand name of "ERON".
In 1970's, our export of vises, clamps were at the top of and million of vises were shipped to U.S.A. and South Asian countries.
Coming in 1980's, "ERON" products were developed to more sophisticated "JIG & Fixture" including the precision machine vises etc.
Participating in EMO, IMTS and JIMTOF, we have been introducing the superior quality of "ERON" products in the world market, some of which are now the indispensable ones for modern machining.
During over 450 years, we have never been manufacturing the products just for the other business firms.
"Produce our own completed products" is one of our company's policies to do the business.
At present, our "ERON industrial tools are being manufactured consistently from the designs to shipping as the processes.
I still haven't found any date ranges for the No.200, but according to the article, imports to USA started in the 1970's.
In 1560, the ancestor of the Okamoto family established the foundry under the charter by the Royal Court of Emperor of Japan. Making the home and building appliances for the main part, the most remarkably, a number of temple bells from generation to generation, one of the oldest foundry in Japan had been maintained down to the end of 19th century.
In early 20th century, we had changed our products to Kitchen utensils, Smoothing irons etc. for export, except our traditional item of temple bells.
In the latter half of 1940's, we began to manufacture the industrial tools such as vises, clamps, taking use of our own casting materials and the brand name of "ERON".
In 1970's, our export of vises, clamps were at the top of and million of vises were shipped to U.S.A. and South Asian countries.
Coming in 1980's, "ERON" products were developed to more sophisticated "JIG & Fixture" including the precision machine vises etc.
Participating in EMO, IMTS and JIMTOF, we have been introducing the superior quality of "ERON" products in the world market, some of which are now the indispensable ones for modern machining.
During over 450 years, we have never been manufacturing the products just for the other business firms.
"Produce our own completed products" is one of our company's policies to do the business.
At present, our "ERON industrial tools are being manufactured consistently from the designs to shipping as the processes.
I still haven't found any date ranges for the No.200, but according to the article, imports to USA started in the 1970's.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Originally posted by Outlaw.
I really have to wonder what the prices would be if Reed restarted manufacturing the 209 again: if we interpolate the 2CA, 3CA and 4CA to a (Mythical) CA5, 6, 7, to get 7, 8 & 9" vise's I'd guess costs would look something like this
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Sounds about right Outlaw. Cause the vises would be official Reeds and not knockoffs. So what is in a name?-----Oh about $5000.00.
I really have to wonder what the prices would be if Reed restarted manufacturing the 209 again: if we interpolate the 2CA, 3CA and 4CA to a (Mythical) CA5, 6, 7, to get 7, 8 & 9" vise's I'd guess costs would look something like this
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Sounds about right Outlaw. Cause the vises would be official Reeds and not knockoffs. So what is in a name?-----Oh about $5000.00.
CudaChick1968
Member Emeritus
... As I said before, one of these would keep your workbenches from shooting across the shop, as they are want to do!!!
Hmmm, mine's on casters. Do you think I could hit Ludicrous Speed??
Here is a new purchase of mine. Actually I traded a Cman 60's drill press for it. It has 4" jaws but is a little bigger than the 4" wilton cadet I have. I don't know model #'s. The new Wilton is the middle pic, cadet to the right and C3 to the left.
Cudachick try this Wilton C3 for keeping momentum once you get your bench rolling!
Cudachick try this Wilton C3 for keeping momentum once you get your bench rolling!
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KMScott
Well-known member
Hunter Mike, I would like to hear from you how the vise feels, how is it's quality and when the jaws are closed are they parallel and gap free from top to bottom. that is what I look at on a vise before buying. I have been in the machining trade since the early seventy's and have not seen any Eron vises used in shops around here. But I have seen the bench vises.
I believe you like hunting like I do, I am more of a Elk guy but look what has been visiting, this big guy has been hanging around my bird feeder and the hens eating out of it for the last month. Just can not pull the trigger on this guy, he is fun to watch.
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jakemac
Well-known member
Ha ! just wait until he decides to get territorial, you won't like him so much when he's chasing you around your car ! 
HunterMike
Well-known member
KMScott, better yet, why don't I run it up to Estes and you can judge for yourself, and possibly make some new jaws for it! Didn't see any listed on the website, not sure if you do 8". Then I can dig through your scrap pile as well
That's a fine looking Tom btw!
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That's a fine looking Tom btw!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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HunterMike
Well-known member
In true answers to your question, let me start by saying until recently, the only vise I really had much experience with was a 3" China no name that came with the garage. Then I stumbled upon this site, and, well, you know. I recently mounted the Craftsman 3.5 and have been using that for the last week.
I still haven't replaced the retaining pins for the screw on the Torco.
That being said, and the fact that the ERON was caked with dirt inside the screw area, it seems to feel pretty good. The jaws close well, and, even with the one jaw missing, the other jaw lines right up into the bevel of the missing jaw. This, of course, after I cleaned it with some brake cleaner.
The one concern I have is that the screw housing is held in place with a pin from the bottom up. When I got it, the pin was bent straight back, and I straightened it with a punch and hammer. See the pics for a better understanding.
I haven't had the pleasure to see in person a Record vice, which this seems to copy. I have fiddled with a few Wilton's on the bumper of service trucks (current company and former company's), and this seems to me to be every bit of solid as those. However, those have been newer Wilton's, (15 yrs old at most).
And, it was free.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Wrench------Did you get a response back on the 208?
oldldh
Well-known member
Brother Scott---
By the first of November that big dude will pull a disappearing act, and won't show up in your yard again until after the first of the year...Smart birds....those Toms...
However, they don't know about freezers, so, get him when hunting season opens...
HMMMM---
Elk steaks and Roasted Tom Turkey----
HMMMM!!!!
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Cuda---
Just how fast is "Ludicrous Speed???
A "New Improved Reed 209 or 210" would probably flatten your castors!!!
My weight guesstimate for a cloned Reed 210 is around 450 pounds!!!!
Holy Sheep Dip!!!!
Why ain't Brother Scott poured about 25 of them, yet????
By the first of November that big dude will pull a disappearing act, and won't show up in your yard again until after the first of the year...Smart birds....those Toms...
However, they don't know about freezers, so, get him when hunting season opens...
HMMMM---
Elk steaks and Roasted Tom Turkey----
HMMMM!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cuda---
Just how fast is "Ludicrous Speed???
A "New Improved Reed 209 or 210" would probably flatten your castors!!!
My weight guesstimate for a cloned Reed 210 is around 450 pounds!!!!
Holy Sheep Dip!!!!
Why ain't Brother Scott poured about 25 of them, yet????
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Provincial
Well-known member
In the 1970's and 80's Eron bench vises were considered to be a quality import. They were not cheap knock-offs and were made of quality materials with excellent workmanship.
I suspect that their quality and workmanship kept them from competing with price against the low-priced Asian imports, which is why they aren't marketed here now.
The ones that I have seen are very close copies of the English Record vises (vices, to use the English term) and have all the advantages of that design. The current crop of Asian imports have been cheapened in their design, materials, and workmanship while keeping the rough outward appearance of a Record.
I suspect that their quality and workmanship kept them from competing with price against the low-priced Asian imports, which is why they aren't marketed here now.
The ones that I have seen are very close copies of the English Record vises (vices, to use the English term) and have all the advantages of that design. The current crop of Asian imports have been cheapened in their design, materials, and workmanship while keeping the rough outward appearance of a Record.
AndrewH
Well-known member
How much does it weigh?
I know what I'm getting sometime soon...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/125mm-mechanic-s-multi-purpose-bench-vice
Less than a hundred UK money-pounds.
I don't know what came first, probably this one, as the design is 70 years old, so I've been reading, but the Swindens is over a thousand UK money-pounds
http://www.swindens-vices.co.uk/swindens-4inch-101mm.html
http://www.axminster.co.uk/125mm-mechanic-s-multi-purpose-bench-vice
Less than a hundred UK money-pounds.
I don't know what came first, probably this one, as the design is 70 years old, so I've been reading, but the Swindens is over a thousand UK money-pounds
http://www.swindens-vices.co.uk/swindens-4inch-101mm.html
GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
wrenchguy
Well-known member
nope, just now called back and left another message. might not work out 4 me as i go to new england saturday early am. boston strong and meeting up with jake.
wrenchguy
Well-known member
All the talk about about 8" & 9" vises ? Why not move up to a real Big Vise
24" jaws and about a 72" opening. It would make a cool table if nothing else
is that 4 bundling cedar shingles?
Fretters
Well-known member
I'd guess it's for cramping anything in wood.
Fretters
Well-known member
I know what I'm getting sometime soon...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/125mm-mechanic-s-multi-purpose-bench-vice
Less than a hundred UK money-pounds.
I don't know what came first, probably this one, as the design is 70 years old, so I've been reading, but the Swindens is over a thousand UK money-pounds
http://www.swindens-vices.co.uk/swindens-4inch-101mm.html
That vice should work fine if you don't abuse it. They're a half decent vice from what I hear. Import, but quite usable.
The Swindens design is a bit older than 70 years. I've got a 4" dated 1936, so they've been around since before then. Funnily enough, it was due to a thread where someone mentioned on of the modern equivalents how I ended up with mine. It needed quite a bit of attention to get the leadscrew and nut sorted and usable, but it cleaned up half decent for its years in the end.
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HunterMike
Well-known member
AndrewH,
Right at 80lbs.
I'll be keeping an eye out for one, but hens' teeth around here. You never know though, and it's possible there's one rusting quietly away in a forgotten corner just waiting for me.
PghJKB
Well-known member
My Latest, picked it up earlier today.
An American Chain Company, 5 inch jaws, fixed base, and with a slide limiter. Check it out, the screw is longer than the slide and is held in place with a yoke. It bathroom scale's at 78lbs. Am going to take this guy apart later, it looks verrryyy interesting .
One side of the vise reads
MFG. BY
AMERICAN
CHAIN CO INC
The other side reads:
A C C O
BRIDGEPORT CONN USA
It is missing one jaw - this will be hell to find, looks like a job for the MillRite. The missing jaw resulted in a price drop - $40.00 to $35.00.
I spent the last couple of hours on the Internet trying to find information on American Chain vises, found nothing. There is some info on American Chain, so I am going to to go down that road until I find something or it dead ends. Checked Goggle patents to see if I could find any info on a patent. No luck, but tomorrow is another opportunity.
Anybody have any info on American Chain vises?
JKB
An American Chain Company, 5 inch jaws, fixed base, and with a slide limiter. Check it out, the screw is longer than the slide and is held in place with a yoke. It bathroom scale's at 78lbs. Am going to take this guy apart later, it looks verrryyy interesting .
One side of the vise reads
MFG. BY
AMERICAN
CHAIN CO INC
The other side reads:
A C C O
BRIDGEPORT CONN USA
It is missing one jaw - this will be hell to find, looks like a job for the MillRite. The missing jaw resulted in a price drop - $40.00 to $35.00.
I spent the last couple of hours on the Internet trying to find information on American Chain vises, found nothing. There is some info on American Chain, so I am going to to go down that road until I find something or it dead ends. Checked Goggle patents to see if I could find any info on a patent. No luck, but tomorrow is another opportunity.
Anybody have any info on American Chain vises?
JKB
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
The yoke looks like a steering shaft coupler with all the splines in it. It is still nice to see an unknown manufacturer pop up.
Fretters
Well-known member
I know what you mean. I'd been keeping an eye out for one on and off for a good couple of years or more, but either the price or location made it unfeasible on the odd occasion one appeared, and then I dropped on that one totally by chance. If there's one with your name on it, it'll turn up eventually.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
i'm pretty sure i couldn't hide a $7000 vise purchase from the bride or even consider that really since i need so many other tools besides another big vise. i do like the idea of shops starting to cast new US vises and tools though. i know they make some now, but not of the "old school" designs which might sell.
how about we start with the Craftsman 5198 since there are plenty of catalogs out there and several close versions of the vise?
yes i love the hunt for the old vises and especially the neglected ones in falling down barns and closed shops or in the scrap pile. a new US made one with an old design is sort of the idea that is like the new muscle cars. yes they are not the same, but until you find one or can afford one it will still make you smile.
PGH: i love that vise and i just came across one of those designs where the screw attaches out the front of the dynamic jaw and mine is a LMV in case you don't remember me posting it. i need the fancy nut on the back that you have and the vise nut and i'll have a great old 160 pound vise.
how about we start with the Craftsman 5198 since there are plenty of catalogs out there and several close versions of the vise?
yes i love the hunt for the old vises and especially the neglected ones in falling down barns and closed shops or in the scrap pile. a new US made one with an old design is sort of the idea that is like the new muscle cars. yes they are not the same, but until you find one or can afford one it will still make you smile.
PGH: i love that vise and i just came across one of those designs where the screw attaches out the front of the dynamic jaw and mine is a LMV in case you don't remember me posting it. i need the fancy nut on the back that you have and the vise nut and i'll have a great old 160 pound vise.
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oldldh
Well-known member
If you do that, I'll have to find a new hobby...
As I've said before, it might be "real", but it wouldn't be "original" or "genuine"...
I will find one...
I hope...
drivesitfar
Well-known member
you could still look every day and every hour for an original and have one on your bench in the meantime.
in case in your travels you find the 300 pound brother that Craftsman feel free to PM me and i'll PM you with the 5198.
i was just thinking if the shops started making good US steel again that our grandkids could have something to hunt for and use in 50 years. You are always talking about the arrows into the future.
in case in your travels you find the 300 pound brother that Craftsman feel free to PM me and i'll PM you with the 5198.
i was just thinking if the shops started making good US steel again that our grandkids could have something to hunt for and use in 50 years. You are always talking about the arrows into the future.
drewzfoster
Active member
I bet that screw isnt original on that American Chain Co....looks newer.
sz0k30
Well-known member
I've learned a couple of things going thru this thread:
1. It appears that Bullet Wiltons are the Cadillacs of vises.
2. A lot of guys like BIG vises.
But for us non-collector, vise amateurs who can't afford Wiltons or don't need 200 pound vises, what type of slide is preferred in a smaller non-bullet vise? A stamped slide attached (pressed in?) to the movable jaw or a cast slide that is part of the movable jaw?
I have a 5-1/2 " USA Craftsman with a stamped slide and a 4" Taiwan Craftsman with a cast slide. Which is better?
1. It appears that Bullet Wiltons are the Cadillacs of vises.
2. A lot of guys like BIG vises.
But for us non-collector, vise amateurs who can't afford Wiltons or don't need 200 pound vises, what type of slide is preferred in a smaller non-bullet vise? A stamped slide attached (pressed in?) to the movable jaw or a cast slide that is part of the movable jaw?
I have a 5-1/2 " USA Craftsman with a stamped slide and a 4" Taiwan Craftsman with a cast slide. Which is better?
Fretters
Well-known member
I think you'll find it's not just a case of having any 5198, (or any other replica for that matter), but rather having the pursuit of an original with the hopeful end point of finding one. Real and replica, no matter how good the replica, are two completely different things. It's not just the item but the hunt, the elation when you finally own one, the history which comes with it etc. which all make the original special. That no replica can ever match.
PghJKB
Well-known member
I'll take that bet. The body of the vice is malleable/ductile iron, the screw is steel, they will age differently. This guy was "stored" under a wood bench on a wood floor for at least 60 years. Where would you get a screw to fit what was probably a very limited production vise?
drivesitfar
Check the bottom of your slide. Is it open (keyhole shape) like a standard vise, or is it closed (round hole) like this one is? It also looks like your vise has a shoulder machined on the end of the slide for the yoke to ride on. My guess someone patented this design, so I have to keep on digging.
JKB
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Fretters
Well-known member
Quality is quality, regardless of type. With regards to application, a formed metal vice will take a beating whereas a cast one won't, (hence why leg vices were forged and not cast), but they both will perform fine within their scope and limits. If you want a vice to hold something whilst you attempt to beat it to death, you want a blacksmiths vice, either leg or bench mount. Formed metal vices are next inline with cast being last choice.
However, a vice is a holding tool, not a forming tool.
Mark in Indiana
Well-known member
^ Although this is my opinion, both of your vises should do fine as long as they haven't been abused. I had a 4 1/2" Japanese C-man and an Enco Taiwanese drill vise, both with over 20 years on the job and they did all that I asked.
There are plenty of great vises other than Wilton's. My personal preference is a Charles Parker 205 machinists vise. It's a 4" machinists vise and as large as I will ever need.
There are plenty of great vises other than Wilton's. My personal preference is a Charles Parker 205 machinists vise. It's a 4" machinists vise and as large as I will ever need.
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
Fretters: i agree with the search and rescue theory and wake up every day with that in mind for a few things. i was just saying it would be nice to have a company start (or continue if they already are) making old US style and quality vises so some of the guys with no time to search can have one. also so the younger generations could be talking about these great old vises made in the US in 2014 fifty and a hundred years from now that their grand dads bought new.
PGH: here is a picture or two of the bottom of my slide on the dynamic jaw of the LMV vise i own. since i don't have a vise nut for it yet i'm exploring other options on maybe using a screw and nut from another big Reed i own with a bad jaw. I was happy to see your screw protruding and what kind of nut I might be looking for. if i remember correctly my screw is 1.125 so not a common size. another option i thought might work would be to grab a screw, vise nut and retainer from a Parker and drill and tap a hole in the front of the dynamic jaw. i do like this big vise and i think there was only one other one mentioned on all the Garage Journal threads.
what do you think my other options are?
PGH: here is a picture or two of the bottom of my slide on the dynamic jaw of the LMV vise i own. since i don't have a vise nut for it yet i'm exploring other options on maybe using a screw and nut from another big Reed i own with a bad jaw. I was happy to see your screw protruding and what kind of nut I might be looking for. if i remember correctly my screw is 1.125 so not a common size. another option i thought might work would be to grab a screw, vise nut and retainer from a Parker and drill and tap a hole in the front of the dynamic jaw. i do like this big vise and i think there was only one other one mentioned on all the Garage Journal threads.
what do you think my other options are?
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Outlawmws
Well-known member
Fretters, I think you misconstrued the question:
Generally from strongest to weakest:
Also factored in is overall weight, some exposed screw vises tip the cascades over 50 lbs, most are 10-14
Same for Shop vises but generally heavier than homeowners for a given jaw size..
Generally from strongest to weakest:
Blacksmith vise
Machinist vise - cast one piece slide
Shop vise - Formed upside down "U for a slide
Homeowners vise - Exposed screw
Also factored in is overall weight, some exposed screw vises tip the cascades over 50 lbs, most are 10-14
Same for Shop vises but generally heavier than homeowners for a given jaw size..
McBrownie
Well-known member
Seems like a rare old vise, so my vote would be to try to keep it as original as possible. Someone with a lathe should be able to cut those threads for you. Have you looked into having a nut made?
oldldh
Well-known member
Outlawmws
Well-known member
What is the thread pitch and dia? verify the 1.125, and lay a tape on the threads and start counting 4 per inch? 5? other?
If it is a std. Acme thread, (some vises are some are not...) then getting a prethhreaded coupler nut is (relatively) easy and then fabricating the "stand" for the nut straightforward: A base (tapered edges) a vertical riser, some welding and voilla! A vise nut!