Drywall Help!

[Harrison W]

Good morning all!

This is my second post to the forum, the first of course being an introduction. I have been lurking for some time to get ideas for my garage, but before I can get fancy, I actually need a usable canvas.

My property was built in 2003 and since the build the garage drywall has been left unpainted. Over the years a couple different owners have come in and installed all kinds of storage systems, and stored all kinds of items in the garage so now the unpainted drywall has evidence of all of this.

In terms of my drywall, it looks like all the tape and mud in the joints needs to be removed and replaced. Do you guys have a tape and joint compound you would recommend for a garage, and tips for a beginner when it comes to this stuff? I am a very handy guy, but I am nervous about screwing this up and having my mistakes show through when I go to paint. Also I could use a good compound or filler of some type to fill in small holes. I used a generic one on the inside of the house, and it expands and contracts with the weather showing where holes were filled in... annoying.

Is there anything else I should be looking for considering the drywall has been left unpainted for so long?

Also, can you guys recommend a primer? I just want something that would be the equivalent of a high-build primer that gives you a good surface to sand down and smooth before you paint. I used Kilz inside of the house and I was very disappointed. It had consistency close to glue, and a lot of its blemishes have shown through the latex top coat.

Thanks for any and all help you can provide!

 

[ynned]

Fwiw, drywall taping is one of those things I believe is best left to pros. It's so cheap that it isn't worth my time. Like roofing; I can't buy the shingles and get 'em sitting up there for much less than someone else will do the whole job. Taping also requires a practised technique; by the time you get it down pat, you've run out of job, and don't have very good results. Just my opinion.

 

[sands35]

I'm not a pro, but have done 2 big basements, 2 garages and several rooms.

The only real problem with DIYing it is, aside that you will take 2-3x as long to do the job, is that you will know where every not perfect spot is. Go look critically at the rest of your house and I'll bet you can find half a dozen not perfect mud mistakes in every room.

Yes, if you have none of the tools, you might be able to hire it out for the same price and have it done in 1/4 the time. Personally, I get a lot of satisfaction for doing mud work myself.

I think it is a good skill for a homeowner to have. I have no issues with putting a hole in drywall to fish wires, knowing that I can have it fixed and painted in another day.

If you are a beginner use the "standard" stuff (i.e, not the setting type).

General purpose for the tape bedding and then lightweight for the other coats.

The only reason you need to use setting type is if there is a big gap or hole to fill - it won't shrink and leave cracks. I use it for the 1st coat on bead for that reason, but there is no reason why general water based can't be used either.

It is not "hard", but it takes practice to get good.

Buy the stainless tools, they are not that much more expensive and they don't rust. The stainless mud pans are easier to keep cleaner than the plastic ones with the metal strip. You will want 3", 6" 8" and 12" tools and the small and large inside corner tools. The outside corner tool isn't really needed.

The "secret" with mud is to put just a little bit of water (about 1 cup - less as you use the mud up in the bucket) in the new pail and mix it in with a big drill and mixing paddle. Mix it before use every time, it makes the mud more consistent and easier to work.

To "build" successive layers of mud over uneven tape or drywall, a curved trowel helps. Pros will use a hawk and trowel for build (if not using flat boxes). I just put mud on with a 8" tool and then use the curved trowel to finish it.

If the seam is uneven, you will need a build layer (or three) over the tape bedding layer so it will blend well with the surrounding wall.

Most on-line DIY videos or instructions say you need at least 3 layers. Plan on 5-6 if you are learning.

The 10" diameter round pole sander is a great tool. You will still need foam sanding blocks for the corners and blending edges though. Sanding isn't to really take off a lot of dried mud. It is only take off goobers, ridges, smooth out high spots and taper edges. If you are sanding a lot, you are sanding too much.

The more you work the mud, the worse it will get. There is nothing wrong with scraping it off and starting over or letting it dry and sanding it down. If I don't like the application, I find it better to let it dry, sand it a little and try again. Mudding isn't a 1 day job anyway.

Be fastidious about keeping the inside of the bucket clean. A bucket shaped scoop helps.

Put down rosin paper and cleanup will be fast and simple.

 

[Zeke]

You probably have what is called 'fire taping'. That's just the first embed coat and no more. You can go over unpainted and old taping with topping compound which is easier to sand. You will need to sand some if this is your first job. Lots of videos on YT, some good and some bad. You'll be able to pick them out after about the 3rd one.

A good first coat of primer is PVA sealer. Might have to go to the real paint store for that. Then pick out your poison, semi gloss, satin or eggshell. Don't use dead flat in a garage. Each one will show defects a little less.

 

[Harrison W]

Thanks all for your help.

I had considered hiring help, but for those who don't know the area, labor rates are very, very expensive - ynned, I miss the cost of getting something done in Northeast Ohio! (lived in Wayne County) . I have access to the tools through friends, so I won't have much in the way of material costs except for consumables.

I appreciate the comments, most of the DIY videos/articles I have found so far don't really seem to have good technique - more of a throw a bucket on the wall and sand it back rather than a build up. It really doesn't help when you go to look at the comments on most of this stuff too and most people argue back and forth about technique.

Here's some photos I probably should have posted that give you an idea of what I am up against:

 

[Zeke]

Definitely fire tape. Keep looking. I have seen some great vids on taping. I could tell you how to do it but if you watched me it would be much better.

This guy is pretty good:

Watch all of his DW vids.

 

[cderalow]

I'm not far from you and could probably point you in the direction of some lesser expense drywall companies in the area

 

[Morrison]

Less is better when mudding, if you slop on thick coats of mud it will either look like **** or you will spend days sanding.

 

[The Cobbler]

You definitely have some tape that needs to be removed. If it's solid I wouldn't bother to remove it, but where it's bubbled you should remove it. scrape down the high spots of the compound and re tape it. you don't need to get back to the drywall. as others have said, it's easier to watch than try to explain how to tape. I use premix and paper tape , then top that with setting compound, then a finish skim coat with premix. any good quality latex primer will be fine.
Taping is a bit of an art, but if you work at it, most people can grasp it .if you paint with lighter colours and low sheen paint it will hide imperfections, darker colours and semi gloss or gloss paints will make them stand out.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

You definitely have some tape that needs to be removed. If it's solid I wouldn't bother to remove it, but where it's bubbled you should remove it. scrape down the high spots of the compound and re tape it. you don't need to get back to the drywall. as others have said, it's easier to watch than try to explain how to tape. I use premix and paper tape , then top that with setting compound, then a finish skim coat with premix. any good quality latex primer will be fine.
Taping is a bit of an art, but if you work at it, most people can grasp it .if you paint with lighter colours and low sheen paint it will hide imperfections, darker colours and semi gloss or gloss paints will make them stand out.

Agreed, as long as the drywall is flat, remove and retape what is loose, leave the rest. Wipe it all down with a damp mop or rag. Get a few taping knifes (widths from 6" up to 10 or 12") and a bucket of mud. Cover with a thin coat using the 6" knife filling in any holes, scratches or dents. Sand it smooth, the screen type drywall paper on a long flat sanding block works good.
Then repeat getting wider with each coat.
You won't be real fast (at first) but it isn't that difficult to do a good job. A garage is a good place to practice.

 

[sands35]

That has to be the worst tape job I've ever seen.

 

[Majordisorder]

Get a spray bottle and lightly spray the tape, it should then pull off easily.(looks pretty bad) If you can find a taper that is ready willing and able, have him do the finishing.

 

[pudgybear]

what's the harm in getting somw free estimates? i just did my FIRST mud and tape to save a few dollars, what a mess, by far means hire the job done you won't be sorry!!!!!!

 

[Zeke]

If there are bubbles they can be cut out and overlapped with FG mesh tape. After that, carry on. Get a corner tool in spite of what some people say. They do work for top coats. If you feather the outer edges your sanding will be held to a minimum. You can also wet sand the edges with a wet sponge but be careful, you might wipe off too much of the feathering.

Heres a tip: DW paper has an ink blotter type texture to it and taping is flat with minor sand scratches. The two don't look at all alike under paint. This is why texturing or skim coating is done, to unify the surface appearance. If you hire this out ask about a sprayed on sealer and blocking agent. It's thick enough to blend the surfaces to look like lightly orange peel paint. Regular sprayed texture looks like heavy orange peel to much coarser like a knock down. There are some roll on textures, YMMV there.

 

[Beaumont67]

I use (method below) & for more reading.
http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218557

- "Durabond 90" non-sanding on first 1 or 2 coats & fiberglass mess tape, rather than paper seam tape
- besides the extra wide trowel and a 90 degree corner trowel, I have the 4 piece stainless steel puddy knife set from Harbor Freight (cost $5.99/set)...all my mud applicators are s/s...makes cleanup easy & drywall tools never rust
- on a slight structural crack in plaster or drywall, I "V" the crack out and coat it first with PL adhesive
- add a tiny bit of string/snap line chalk to the last batch of mud, to easily identify the touch up/small repair spots once dried, that need final sand...colored mud is easy to see afterwards
- if I am fixing a hole in the wall (like from a door handle)...first I drywall screw plywood behind the hole...useless filling it with paper backing or spray foam
- check bottom wall corners with a metal carpenter square for trueness, otherwise the baseboard trim may not fit properly after painting...never want to loose the exact 90 degree corners, near the floor
- use a 2 ft. metal carpenter square (flat edge) to check mud leveling on wall seams
- low & high spots get market with a lead pencil, and fixed...an old 14" long auto body lead file works perfect to easily correct high spots, with little or no dust created, shaving mud off the wall, nice & flat

^^^^ Tips for a level 5 mud job.
- above technique is the skill set I recently trained my reno hired man with

 

[JakeKohl]

That has to be the worst tape job I've ever seen.

You clearly haven't seen me tape drywall.

 

[bazzateer]

It's a garage, I'd just sand down what's there and slap a few coats of paint on it all.

 

[dogdog]

Get a spray bottle and lightly spray the tape, it should then pull off easily.(looks pretty bad) If you can find a taper that is ready willing and able, have him do the finishing.

This, except do it with hot water, let it soak a little and scrape it off. Some of the area needs to be remove re-tape. I have even used 60 grit sand paper to rough it up first to make water more absorbent.


Not expert but Here is my two cents.

This is a garage, It can't get any worse than what you have right now, and you don't really needed to have a crisp looking, like a living room/show room. Just a pain to deal with the sanding dust and can't store things that you don't want dusty for the time you are working there. If you are willing to put up a few weekends of labor I say go for it.

Those videos and links they are pretty good.
Aside from that, the last coat you can use a drill and paddle mix those premixed joint compound, add very little water to your batch to thin it out just a bit. It will glide on lot more easier / smoother. Just don't mix too much that you don't need. and don't be afraid to feather out a little more if you have to make your wall look straight to naked eye.

Get a scraper not a mud spreader to scrape....for mudding, I think the 4" 6" and 10 are good choice to have they are cheap enough. get the good flexible ones for mudding. It will have less fatigue on your hand, give you a better control on the finish.

Clean up your tools immediately with warm water or with just water in a bucket after each job use at end of the day. Once it is dried it will be hard to remove. Clean your tools often during the taping / mudding, it helps on the finish and the mudding process.
Don't empty the whole bucket of water into your sink, those compound in the water will settle and clog your drain.

And wear a good N95 dust mask when you are sanding. Yes a pro will probably finish the job with very little sanding but then again this is your first DIY.



Good luck.

 

[SteveCh]

Do it yourself. I built my own home and did it, having never touched such a task. I started with a storage area and a closet or two. Took me about as long to do one closet as a pro could have done my entire house, but I had no money to pay a pro.

I became faster as I went. Never got fast at it. There are some places that still bug me a bit as they are not so great a result. But for the most part, my house is fine and I did do it all by myself.

This is the garage. Unless you are extremely **** type and simply cannot accept anything but absolute perfection, you can do it. Remember that when applying the compound, less is better. Even if you need to put on more coats, trying to "fix" too much compound applied, after it dries, is a major pain.

 

[wnstwolf]

Can't add much more to the drywall comments bu after painting a 3500 sq/ft house and 2400 sq/ft garage I fould you get what you pay for in terms of paint. Gripper primer woked best for raw drywall and Ben Moore top coas cost more but covered in one coat which saved time and money

 

[Zeke]

Gripper is great primer but that quality in not needed to seal new drywall. However, since the OP's DW has turned yellow, that would be an excellent primer. I hate anything made by Kilz and my local professional paint supply won't sell it. They carry Zinser though. I'm on the fence with Zinser because it's largely a consumer product. See what you can buy in 5's and you'll see what pros use.

I know no one has brought up primer brands but that's part of the finishing package.

 

[wnstwolf]

Zeke did not recognize you with the new Avitar.... Very Dapper!

 

[workhurts]

I'd never done any drywall work when I got my first townhouse 12-13 years ago. I live in the same area except the VA side so know how expensive things are. I attempted to do the drywall work in my garage back then. It was awful. Over the years I learned to do it better on multiple projects in the house.

When it came time to do the 3 car in the new house, I hired it out for about $600 to do a 31x22x13' garage because I didn't want to mess with 13' ceilings.

My friend had just bought a 2 car and had never done drywall work before in his life. I went over there a couple of nights just to show him and get him started. I'm sure he used double the amount of mud needed and quadruple the amount of time sanding but his came out just fine.

If you have the time and have anyone to show you just a little bit you'll be fine doing it on your own. Watch some youtube videos. There weren't as many a decade ago but you can probably get up to speed with just that.

I mean it's mud, you could literally sand it all back down to the exact state you started with ... just do it till it's good enough for you. It will take time though plus you'll have the tool needed to do repair work inside your house. Like another poster said, I put holes in my walls all the time it seems and it's nice to be able to fix everything yourself.

 

[Zeke]

Do remember that pros use taping and topping mud. All purpose in a plastic 5 gal. is not the best of both worlds. Topping has no binder/glue in it and more talc. It sands off easy if you have to do a lot of sanding. Most pros just kiss it with a screen and it's done.

 

[Pointbock]

I'm in the same boat as the OP. Fire taped (partially and poorly) and some areas were painted over.

On the section I'm doing now (one advantage of a DIY-job is not having to clear the whole space at once) I used the shop-vac to remove the dust and cobwebs and then wiped the area down with a degreaser/deglosser and started in. I used bedding and topping compounds and mid-grade tools. I have 6, 10 , and 14" knives and a stainless mud pan. Sanding the topping compound is easy with a screen - I have one hand-held and one on a pole.

I plan on using Zinser primer. It might not be a "pro-product" but it's advertised to do exactly what the OP and I need - leave a uniform surface over less than ideal substrate. It's not magic, and 90% of a good paint job is surface prep but in my experience it works just fine.

About 80% of my wall space will be covered by shelves, be behind cabinets, etc. so I don't need a level 5 finish. I might spend a bit more time & effort on the ceiling, as I do want a nice bright, reflective surface, and though you don't often study the ceiling paint it is always in plain view.

Like someone mentioned earlier, I like to start in a closet or another area that won't be in plain sight, so that my technique and results improve as I go. This looks like a perfect project to tackle yourself.