New Electrical Service Plans

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Awhile ago I posted on the generator thread that I was going to put in a new meter / generator socket, sourced and supplied by my power company. http://www.durhamcompany.com/

Well plans are moving forward and I want to do this right the first time and the only time so here is what I plan to do. Your comments and feedback on my plans are welcome.

In this picture (taken from the "new pole/transformer" location in the sketch) you can see, barely, the existing pole on the other side of the topped pine and the aerials coming and going from the transformer.

This sketch shows what I would like to do, Nema4R junction box below my meter socket with a buried feed to the house and to the garage from the meter location. Existing 200Amp in house and planned 100Amp(freebie) in the garage. The above meter socket box would still be used and the generator would be used temporarily next to pole when required and then put back into storage. With this set up no more aerials over the yard or the pool.

Here is a picture of the mangy old pole and transformer that is currently next to the garage and over the pool area. I am standing right next to the pool when taking the picture.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

I have an electrician buddy that will help and do what permitting is required for inspection.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I would have to guess since No reply's that the plan is solid and you all would do the same.

That's what I wanted to know.

 

[tfi racing]

Unless you are isolating the rest of the system from the garage,you can't feed with the genset at that point in the system,you will have to plug the genset in at the meter socket which is on the new pole,from what I understand from your description.Other than that it looks like a good idea,it will be good to get rid of those O/H lines and pole in your yard.

 

[VHF]

Looks like a good plan and a good improvement to your property. Getting rid of the overhead wires will make kite flying much safer!

A couple questions on details for the NEC gurus out there:

Can a 200A service at the meter pole feed both a 200A service to the house and a 100A service to the garage, or would a 350A service be required at the meter?

Can the "unlimited tap" rule be used to feed two buildings (the house and garage)? I was under the impression that one of the feeds had to have a current limiting device (aka circuit breaker) within 6' or 8' of the meter, but that the second building could be farther away using the "unlimited tap" rule. Or is there some other provision that allows feeding two buildings from a pole-mounted meter w/o a circuit breaker protecting each feed?

Should NWOhioChevyGuy install a panel on the meter pole with a 200A breaker feeding the house and a 100A breaker feeding the garage?

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Good questions VHS, hopefully someone responds to them.

My current set up is alot farther from that than the new one would be.
Currently the 200A house panel is around 100' from the meter and the garage feed is dropped off the overhead feed going to the house. The panel in the garage is a simple 4 circuit 120V box for lights, pool eqiupment & well pump.

I will get my electrician buddy to look over my plans before I move forward purchasing anything.

And yes TFI Racing the meter socket will be where the generator will plug in. The socket is actually a dual source design for a generator hook-up.

 

[Aceman]

Can a 200A service at the meter pole feed both a 200A service to the house and a 100A service to the garage, or would a 350A service be required at the meter?

Sure, if the load is less than 200 amps. This is assuming there is a 200 amp breaker installed right after the meter, limiting the load to 200 amps. If you tried to run 2 sets of wires out of the meter, one feeding a 200 amp breaker and the other feeding a 100 amp breaker, then no. You would have the potential of pulling 300 amps through the 200 amp meter and that's not going to cut it.

Can the "unlimited tap" rule be used to feed two buildings (the house and garage)? I was under the impression that one of the feeds had to have a current limiting device (aka circuit breaker) within 6' or 8' of the meter, but that the second building could be farther away using the "unlimited tap" rule. Or is there some other provision that allows feeding two buildings from a pole-mounted meter w/o a circuit breaker protecting each feed?

You could ask your local inspector if there is a local exception to the rule. Here, we always install service disconnects immediately adjacent to the meter. 230.70(A)(1) looks to be the code reference.

Should NWOhioChevyGuy install a panel on the meter pole with a 200A breaker feeding the house and a 100A breaker feeding the garage?

If the overall load is less than 200 amps I don't see why not. A 200 amp feed-thru panel would work well for this. Feed the house off the bottom lugs and still have plenty of room to install a breaker for the garage and anything else he may need.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

So what you are saying instead of placing a simple Junction / lug box on the pole I would place a small breaker box with a 200A for the house and a 100A breaker for the garage directly below the meter? The current meter I have is rated at 200A, do they make a 300A that I can get, would I need this to do this install correctly?

Max in the garage now, 20A for Freezer & Lights, 20A for Pool Pump, 20A for Well Pump. Future will potentially have a Hot Tub next to the pool so that is why the service is being upgraded when I do my changes. Also once the changes are done I will be able to wire my pool pump 230V so it will cut that draw drastically. Garage will be converted to a "Pool House" when the attached one is built, freezer will move to the new garage leaving only the Pool, Hottub, Well Pump & lights/outlets in that structure.

 

[walrus]

Just because a breaker says 20 amp doesn't mean the load attached is 20 amps. You need to do a load calculation is there is any question as to whether or not your new service will handle your load


They make meter trims with main breakers built into the same enclosure. You then take 4 properly sized wires to a panel in the house or garage

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Yeah I understand that just because it is a 20A it isn't drawing that.

I won't be pulling 200A through both panels combined at any one time. Just because they are 200A and 100A panels don't mean that is what they will be using that amount of Juice. I think most understand that, however if they are capable &/or rated for that, someday someone might add enough equipment that they will and the system should be able to handle it if installed correctly.

I will have to look at the meter socket panel I am going with and see what options I have, it may have that as an option, but due to it being a Socket / Generator switch panel it may not.

Thanks,

 

[VHF]

It sounds like you could use the combo meter socket/transfer switch you are looking at, and then below that the 200 amp feed-thru panel that Aceman mentioned. The feed-thru panel would be similar to a small house panel, but have an additional set of lugs at the bottom.

You would have a 200A main breaker that protects everything (and limits total draw from the meter to 200A), with the feed to the house coming off the bottom lugs in the feed-thru panel. There would also be a 100A branch circuit breaker which would feed the garage.

You would be able to run both house and garage off generator power, but it would be up to you to switch off some individual breakers in the house and the garage to limit the load before switching to generator power.

 

[Aceman]

Exactly VHF!

The above meter socket box would still be used and the generator would be used temporarily next to pole when required and then put back into storage.

Here's another transfer switch option that might be worth looking into. It may be cheaper than what you're going with already so I figured I'd mention it.

http://www.reliancecontrols.com/Products.aspx?pl=tPow&c=&f=

combined with this which would mount on your 200 amp panel:

www.interlockkit.com

Just need a cord from your genny to complete it.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Well I got a response from the electrical company today about my inquiry about moving the pole, don't think he understood my situation. I'm gonna have to call and have someone come out and discuss my options. It will come down to the $ figures and what the power company wants to charge for moving the pole and transformer.

He points out the obviouse thing about the pool and electricity....EXACTLY why I'm looking to make some changes....duh

Here is his reply:
Keith, your questions have many concerns that are much more complicated than a generator hook-up, and would require a field visit by a customer energy specialist to provide you with some of the options you are requesting. I forwarded this memo to the team leader out of the Adrian office, and she asked if you would please call into our 1-800-477-5050 and make a request (or what we call notification) for a pole relocation, and it will go to the correct CES to schedule a visit and hopefully answer your concerns.

A couple notes for discussion:

1) The national electric code and some of our standards may not allow a electric meter nearby a pool. The same goes for minimum clearance of an overhead wire over a pool. That may be not only our call , but of an local inspector.

2) It is expensive to relocate poles, and transformers, and/or relocate from overhead to underground. You and the CES will have to determine if you really want to do that. You (and the CES) don't want to have to design 3 options.

3) As far as the hook-up to a generator, one option to make it "generator hook-up ready" is by replacing your existing meter (if it is in a good spot that works) with our meter socket transfer switch (it costs $370). Another option may just to have you referred to our contractor in that area who can show you different options, including a sale of a generator, if needed. I handle both those programs.
First you need to decide what you are going : change meter location, change from OH to UG. etc, then I may be able to help on the question of generator.