Pipe thread connections - what's the trick to getting it right?

[b-body-bob]

After disassembling and measuring, I need something to hold a 1-1/8" hex, 3/8" thick or less.

Thinking a needle nose vise grip might do the job. I doubt the one I have is big enough but you never know until you try. If not I always appreciate a reason to buy another tool.

I really don't want to chisel the cinder block if I don't have to.

 

[Techie1961]

DO NOT use the needle nose Vise Grips. Brass will strip off really easily. Head out and buy a narrow jaw/ large opening adjustable wrench. They are available from multiple tools but Channellock makes a nice set. Indispensable tool to have. https://www.channellock.com/8WCB-Adjustable-Wrench.aspx

You can also use an open end wrench if you can get one.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Hard to tell, but a decent pair of vice grips as a starter. Lock it in . Maybe throw a cheater bar of it can fit just to give you move leverage holding it. Plumbers wrench would hold it a helluva lot better but thats what it's teeth are made for

Remove all the tape IMO. It's fighting you. Just use a good dope and a GOOD Quality Ball Valve. Yes, you said Apollo. Use Apollo *USA* and not Apollo International .....

Have you tried pulling on it....if there is any slop that might give you that extra 1/2", etc

 

[johninct]

Install a union to the end of that pipe. Then you can get your ball valve to go where you want it.

 

[b-body-bob]

Just use a good dope and a GOOD Quality Ball Valve. Yes, you said Apollo. Use Apollo *USA* and not Apollo International .....

Have you tried pulling on it....if there is any slop that might give you that extra 1/2", etc

I looked at the valve tag, don't remember the mfr right now but it's something like "American valve" with 'made in China" in smaller print.

There's no slack in it, remember the pipe is buried ~ 2' deep right on the other side of the wall. It ain't moving.

 

[b-body-bob]

DO NOT use the needle nose Vise Grips. Brass will strip off really easily. Head out and buy a narrow jaw/ large opening adjustable wrench. They are available from multiple tools but Channellock makes a nice set. Indispensable tool to have. https://www.channellock.com/8WCB-Adjustable-Wrench.aspx

You can also use an open end wrench if you can get one.

I'll keep that in mind. I have to go out shopping for a bunch of water-related stuff anyway.

Install a union to the end of that pipe. Then you can get your ball valve to go where you want it.

That's an option but it would push the valve out of the wall into the living space and I'm trying to avoid that.

 

[b-body-bob]

Plumbers wrench would hold it a helluva lot better but thats what it's teeth are made for

By plumber's wrench do you mean a pipe wrench or something else?

 

[b-body-bob]

One of these might work?

 

[mobiledynamics]

U can try. Given the options, as long as it holds the fitting tight so you can wrench on your ball valve, then you're good.

I would have probably opted a plumbers wrench......as the teeth will hold it - 50/50 that the smooth jaw wrench will just slip

 

[b-body-bob]

Yeah I didn't think that adjustable would work because it'd be near impossible to keep it on the hex. I was just poking around in the dark at exactly what a plumber's wrench is.

I found a small pair of Irwin channel locks, the model with the slide button. They're about 2/3 the thickness of any other pliers I've got here and look like they'll work.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Figure out a cheater bar of some sorts.
Any threaded fitting, I usually like to get it close to bottoming out. You'll *feel* when it's too tight - don't want to go cracking anything.

But to get it tight enough, you generally are using 2 wrenches and *leveraging* both ways, with some force. A beefy handle at least gives you the grip you need.

If you have a 18" Adjustable wrench, that might work equally as well...

 

[Agtech]

I would check a hydraulic shop, and get a male female swivel. Then, you can point the valve handle in any direction you want.

 

[Durka]

After disassembling and measuring, I need something to hold a 1-1/8" hex, 3/8" thick or less.

Thinking a needle nose vise grip might do the job. I doubt the one I have is big enough but you never know until you try. If not I always appreciate a reason to buy another tool.

I really don't want to chisel the cinder block if I don't have to.

Damn, - yea that's a fairly cheap brass fitting stub there. A narrow brass hex like that can get messed up easily. If changing that male stub was easy, I might opt for that...hard to say. If it's soldered on , - scratch that, - too much work. - IF it's threaded into iron, I'd grab a socket and off it. Install for a better fitting and go from there.

If I had to get on that fitting with a wrench, I'd give this one a shot, -

View media item 40709
HD stocks that one I believe.

Good luck with it.

 

[shooting4life]

If the thin adjustable wrench does not work then I would get a tappet wrench which is ultra thin and would fit.

 

[89GLH]

It's probably been mentioned here already but if you think you can't go around tighter, STOP. Don't back it off with tape/dope on it. Go as far as you can without the need to back it off.

 

[Techie1961]

Yeah I didn't think that adjustable would work because it'd be near impossible to keep it on the hex. I was just poking around in the dark at exactly what a plumber's wrench is.

I found a small pair of Irwin channel locks, the model with the slide button. They're about 2/3 the thickness of any other pliers I've got here and look like they'll work.

You need a wrench that has flat jaws. I work with this stuff all the time and anything with teeth on it will chew the brass to ratshit and round it off. The adjustable that I showed you works great. I use them all the time. You will be shocked at how you can easily check up brass.

 

[ozyborn]

Connect the ball valve tightly. Use a Union connection before it. That way you can move the pipe any way you wish.

 

[59 wagon man]

use an open end wrench against the wall. been doing this for 35 yrs .many of the teflon tape rolls you buy ****. the good ones will tell you on the roll usually 4-5 wraps but my personal experience if i want to be sure something won't leak or has bad threads i use what we would call spool wick , looks like a large spool from a sewing machine about 4" long. wrap the threads like you would with tape following the threads then a little pipe dope or paste and tighten ,no more leaks. i have done thousands of feet of pipe like this and never had a problem. also make sure you are wrapping the tape in the correct direction

 

[Lassen Forge]

You need a wrench that has flat jaws. I work with this stuff all the time and anything with teeth on it will chew the brass to ratshit and round it off. The adjustable that I showed you works great. I use them all the time. You will be shocked at how you can easily check up brass.

Its posts like this that make me wish I could "+1" it... Great advice! (and I have a 1920's bronze pcking nut that I need for a shop paid resto that had this done to it and its making me rather ill....)

 

[b-body-bob]

Well I got it done but never did find a tool to hold that fitting.

The things that fit in the space would then jam up the wrench on the ball valve, and it was near impossible to hold them in the space I've got anyway. All it was doing was giving me a headache and a false sense of confidence, so I just took my time and tightened it down hoping the fitting and pipe would hold the torque. I got 2 full turns from hand tight so it should be OK, it's pretty danged tight.

I used about 2 turns of yellow tape, and a good coating of Rectorseal T plus 2, and ended up with the handle right on top where I wanted it. Thanks everybody for all the advice and ideas.

 

[mobiledynamics]

Check back for leaks often IMO.

I would have never wrenched on one end with the opposing end unsupported.
It's possible the male joint on the opposite side is leaking and you're not even seeing it, cause the minute leak is in the block.

 

[Techie1961]

The things that fit in the space would then jam up the wrench on the ball valve, and it was near impossible to hold them in the space I've got anyway.

You can tighten from either side of the ball valve. With a wrench on the fitting, put the other wrench on the outer part of the ball valve and go at er.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

Doing some work for a water treatment company & use Teflon tape + Teflon thread sealant paste applied to all threaded joints -- copper, plastic, even threaded shark bites. It's what they want & it seems to work.

 

[C96]

Sounds like the tape / dope trick is the key when dealing with problem joints.
I will keep this in mind next time I have trouble with threaded pipe fittings.

Glad to hear it worked out for you bob, now you can move on to the next hurdle in your rehab.

Good Luck

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

If you're ever wanting those threads to never ever come apart unless you use a 24" pipe wrench, use this stuff.

Item with prices - http://www.argco.com/store/main.aspx?p=picturelistBody&c=PTTSSD

Tech data on product - http://www.argco.com/pdf/techdata/superdope_techdata.pdf

The stuff works amazingly. You really only need to coat two/three of the threads for it to work. We use it only on problem threads/fittings that leak. Seals them right up but it's a PITA breaking torque on them to loosen them up. But once you break that seal it comes apart like cake.

Also over time, the brush we use to brush it onto the threads actually hardens over time which I find amusing.

 

[mobiledynamics]

NPT - The threads are a tapered fit. It WILL not leak if properly installed.

Not sure why posters are recommending stuff that's close to thread-lock...
Should the OP need to service that Ball Valve in the future, he should be able to easily remove it - just as easily as he should be putting it on....

While his current situation is a bit hard with not alot of slack, it's servicable with the right wrench

 

[Techie1961]

NPT - The threads are a tapered fit. It WILL not leak if properly installed.

Oh, I wish this was true. Unfortunately we don't make most pipe fittings in QC ruled production facilities in North America any more. You now end up with threads that don't conform at all. The angles are wrong, the valleys and crests are wrong, the surface finish on the thread flanks is wrong. The tooling breaks and the garbage gets out to the real world. Even with a good liberal teflon tapeing with dope, you can still get leaks.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

Oh, I wish this was true. Unfortunately we don't make most pipe fittings in QC ruled production facilities in North America any more. You now end up with threads that don't conform at all. The angles are wrong, the valleys and crests are wrong, the surface finish on the thread flanks is wrong. The tooling breaks and the garbage gets out to the real world. Even with a good liberal teflon tapeing with dope, you can still get leaks.

Yea I'll get a few fittings(black iron) a year from the supplier that aren't even threaded/tapped. I usually sneak it onto a coworkers truck and let him find it. We've been getting a lot of fittings with casting/pit/sand divots in them. I've used a #2 pencil lead to stop a leak from a casting hole that was leaking.

 

[Roady94]

-Happy to hear of you're success.

Just to add another voice. Like others in this thread, I got a great tip, from an old plumber, years ago.

Griip, by Oatey.

 

[malibu101]

Yea I'll get a few fittings(black iron) a year from the supplier that aren't even threaded/tapped. I usually sneak it onto a coworkers truck and let him find it. We've been getting a lot of fittings with casting/pit/sand divots in them. I've used a #2 pencil lead to stop a leak from a casting hole that was leaking.

A few years ago I ran some 1/2" black iron pipe through my dad's barn to get air around the place.
Job done, apply pressure, and hear an air leak.

A tee had a casting pinhole in it that I never noticed during install.
Had to remove quite a bit of pipe to be able to change out the tee.

 

[rodm1]

You need a bigger pipe wrench. Unions are needed at strategic locations sow you can tighten leaker's. Use only domestic pipe and most of the problems will be eliminated.

If you are using China pipe it helps to use tap and pipe dope on each joint. Good pipe you shouldn't need anything on the threads but not realistic.

 

[b-body-bob]

Check back for leaks often IMO.

I would have never wrenched on one end with the opposing end unsupported.
It's possible the male joint on the opposite side is leaking and you're not even seeing it, cause the minute leak is in the block.

I felt the same way but at some point you just have to get it done.

There's a meter on the other end that has a "spinner" that will turn with the smallest leak. It was rock solid all day when the water was off.

 

[b-body-bob]

You can tighten from either side of the ball valve. With a wrench on the fitting, put the other wrench on the outer part of the ball valve and go at er.

Tried that. That other end is the packing and it seemed to just soak up torque so I gave up before I screwed up.

 

[b-body-bob]

Glad to hear it worked out for you bob, now you can move on to the next hurdle in your rehab.

Thanks. There's a big box of PEX fittings due here Wednesday so plumbing's on hold for now but there's always something else to work on.

 

[fireguy]

If you're ever wanting those threads to never ever come apart unless you use a 24" pipe wrench, use this stuff.

Item with prices - http://www.argco.com/store/main.aspx?p=picturelistBody&c=PTTSSD

Tech data on product - http://www.argco.com/pdf/techdata/superdope_techdata.pdf

The stuff works amazingly. You really only need to coat two/three of the threads for it to work. We use it only on problem threads/fittings that leak. Seals them right up but it's a PITA breaking torque on them to loosen them up. But once you break that seal it comes apart like cake.

Also over time, the brush we use to brush it onto the threads actually hardens over time which I find amusing.

I have not used the above, I use LH 056 Permabond. Not cheap! But it does not wash out and you can reverse the fitting for alignment if needed. A bit thin for gas work.

The real problem is the CIS (Cheap Import ****) pipe fittings that are sold, and bought in America. Whenever possible, I buy Ward Made in America fittings and *******. I have one supplier who can special order Made in America for me.