chipper
Well-known member
Has anyone bought these from amazon and have any reviews....seems awful tempting at $28
knock-off m12 xc batteries
- Thread starter chipper
- Start date
ihateminimumwage
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 3,961
I've been curious about them as well. M12s and knock offs are from China, so it could be a competitor building imitations, or QC rejects from the factory that builds them for Milwaukee.
I'd personally rather spend the extra cash just for the Milwaukee warranty.
I'd personally rather spend the extra cash just for the Milwaukee warranty.
I don't know about that. My buddy bought some 12v max dewalt offshore ones and when we took one apart, it had the same Sanyo cells as the dewalts and at 1/3 the price.
rice rocket
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 3,175
Yeah agreed. To purchase decent lithium batteries wholesale, they're about 6-8 a piece in quantities of 100. The M12 XCs have 6 cells in them, that's $36-48 in just batteries. If they're cheaper than that, they're usually half full (you can usually judge by weight).
Then it sounds like he got lucky. The vast majority of Chinese knock-offs I've seen have lower capacity ratings, and that's just what their being honest about. Who knows about the quality of the components inside. Lets face it, China, especially illegitimate components/copies, aren't exactly known for being high quality.
The price you pay in lots of 100 is a LOT different than the price that Milwaukee pays in lots of 1,000,000.
no one ever said milwaukee was only making a few bucks profit off each battery either...
speculation time?
milwaukee buys their batteries for 1 dollar a piece, puts 6 in each unit, and the total cost of the unit is only 10 dollars when complete.
dewalt buys their batteries for 4 dollars a piece, 6 in each unit, and the whole unit costs 30 in total when complete.
dewalt sells their batteries for 100 each, and milwaukee sells theirs for 100 each. both are similar, one costs more because of the process and/or materials involved in how they get to their selling point. but the profits are greater because their battery is priced at the same price as a competitor, they will make much more by pricing their items similar to the competition rather than trying to undersell the competition and start a war on who can put prices the lowest.
the low price **** happens once in a while, but for the most part the pricing point for items regardless of what it cost to make them is the same idea as why you will always find a lowes and home depot next to each other instead of spread out. they would rather both draw business at the same point to attract loyal customers, be able to pull customers off of the other store, than have to compete for which is closest to the largest population which could change any time. best to be as close to the close competition as possible to keep from causing yourself mor eharm than good.
if milwaukee priced their batteries extremely cheap, how many people would look at the difference in price and automatically assume "man, milwaukee must be making **** product if they can price it so low", when in reality, they are hiking the price up to competition just to make themselves appear same or better in quality. enter snap-on for a perfect example of increasing price to increase sales.
MikeF2316
Well-known member
+1 on this.
With batteries, I've found cheap is just a waste of money, whether it's standard lead-acid for your car, SLA (sealed lead acid) for your UPS or the watch type batteries for your car remote.
Using cheap SLA batteries in a UPSes at work, they seemed fine with the 2 minute test after being charged up when new, but they had only half the run time of the original batteries, and they only lasted 2 years before they were shot.
My original car remote battery lasted 12 years, 2 cheap replacements lasted only 2 months each! Now I have a name brand one that's been in the remote for 3 years and counting.
We tried non original batteries for our laptops at work. They would fail with a "snap!" relatively early in their life.
I was tempted ONCE on those generic 12v Milwaukee batteries. In my experience it is a hit or miss situation. Others have had the same experience, with longevity maybe being compromised. Your mileage may vary. But I would keep away.
G_P
Well-known member
Judging by the 4 dead Milwaukee brand M12 battery packs I have laying around that died shortly after 2 years, it wont make much difference who made them. These new computer chip controlled battery packs **** in terms of reliability.
Milwaukee even changed the battery name to "RED lithium". They knew there was something wrong with those original generation M12 batteries but instead of helping the customers who bought them, they just changed something in the packs and gave them a new name.
Milwaukee even changed the battery name to "RED lithium". They knew there was something wrong with those original generation M12 batteries but instead of helping the customers who bought them, they just changed something in the packs and gave them a new name.
rice rocket
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 3,175
Nice! looking forward to it!
RCStocker
Well-known member
I have received some very good batteries made in Japan that have lasted for years. I am always surprised when I go to replace them that they are form Japan. There are many off brands that are good. You never know. Someone hates every brand, even the good ones. More than likely when a battery leaks there is something wrong with the tool or it has sat for years then the dolt blames the battery. I buy all my batteries at Costco. I only buy Duracell. I take them in huge packs to Australia because they cost 3 times as much down under. The TSA people always make me open my bags that I ship through. Never had a problems. I get better longevity out of Duro's and I have never had one leak. Now Sam's club sells them. They are so cheap in those places there is no reason to buy the off brands. Costco has the Kirkland brand for a few cents less but they do not last.
Are these coming shipped from china or what? I'd suggest they are the internals of returned/repaired M12 batteries put in plastic without their branding. It's got to be cheaper to sell those than to dispose them properly.
I know for sure other brands that don't resell the batteries do it this way.
I know for sure other brands that don't resell the batteries do it this way.
does that mean the other 1 time is a fake plant within the real plant? because that happens too.
What I'm saying is I don't question there are actual fakes being manufactured. Just suggesting that this could also be what happens to those batteries they replace under warranty.
What I'm saying is I don't question there are actual fakes being manufactured. Just suggesting that this could also be what happens to those batteries they replace under warranty.
MikeF2316
Well-known member
I always figure (I have no proof, just guessing) that the stuff that any given plant makes goes in 3 different directions. There's the stuff that passes quality control, some of it goes out the front door to normal channels, some goes out the back door and is sold on the internet. The third stream is the stuff that fails quality control and is supposed to be destroyed - some (most?) of that stuff goes out a different back door and is also sold on the internet.
They very well could be. The dewalts my buddy got were Sanyo cells just like what dewalt uses.
You hit the nail. The part that scares me is, who ends up with the failed quality control when you're talking pharmaceuticals
beamrider
Well-known member
Sanyo, Samsung, Sony, and Panasonic are pretty much the leaders in LiOn, at least as far as 183501/18500/18650 goes.
Has no bearing or indication of quality though. Many Apple products are made in China, a lot of knock-offs are out there too. In terms of quality the knock-offs are notably inferior.
The illegitimate factories have no cause to do quality control nor do they care about the customer beyond making the sale and taking your cash.
All kinds of knock-off batteries out there too. I'll tell you there is a huge difference between a $20 generic shipped to you from China and the real deal OE branded one that costs more like $100 despite the fact that it is also made in China. I tried that game with a few laptop batteries, once was enough of a lesson for myself.
Last edited:
I disagree. I had an Iclone phone before people even knew what was. I've imported products and later found out they were not real, only to find the product exactly the same if not better quality.
I'm not saying this is always the case, but i've had a lot of dealings with this and they've been very good outcomes.
Here's the link if anyone else needs it or wants to see it http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00H8...cb9dbc72&qid=1401234156&sr=8-8#ref=mp_s_a_1_8
Came in today!! Pretty fast shipping I ordered on Tues. It came fully charged and looks identical to my other xc... now time to test anybody got any good ideas how to compare the two(without taking it apart) I thought about just running my m12 radio both days this weekend and see which holds longer any other ideas?
4x4_G30_Sportvan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2013
- Messages
- 547
Don't forget, you have 30 days to return it for any reason on AMZ. Hook i tup to a light, and leave it on overnight in the garage or something to test.
ihateminimumwage
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2012
- Messages
- 3,961
I was halfway through reading your post when I thought the radio would be a great test.
Glad to hear you thought the same.MikeF2316
Well-known member
Just connect the battery to a automotive bulb. A 27 watt bulb should drain a 4ah battery in well under 2 hours.
G_P
Well-known member
Grab a box of cheap drywall screws about 3" long and a scrap of 2x4. See how many screws you can drive in on a full charge with the original and knockoff batteries.
beamrider
Well-known member
Maybe the knockoffs take longer to charge than we thought.