Do people really care where tools are made

[woody 73]

I have tools and clothes, electronic goods, cars, parts, etc. from just about every Country in the World. Don't get me wrong in my tool hunts I search for USA made tools everywhere I look.

I look for quality first, will it hold up over time? price and coo take somewhat of a back street for me, sure I also want my dollars to go as far as possible, I would rather cry in pain the first time then buy something that will fail asap.

I try and learn what works good and what to avoid, for example in my lifetime American cars have left me by the side of the road more times then I can shake a stick. On the other hand the Asian cars keep going strong but the rust kills them in so many years.

Everyone is different on the GJ, just my two cents at 4:31 in the morning...

 

[bayoutoolguy]

I care where the tools I buy are made. In order of preference 1. USA/Canada 2. Europe 3. Japan 4. Taiwan. And its still very rare that I buy a Taiwanese made tool. I refuse to buy from anywhere else and I definitely wont be buying any Chinese tools

 

[DWise]

I totally agree with Bayou above. I do have one China Craftsman ratchet that I got on a trade in, but I hate it and will trade it of as soon as I can. I also think Sears must be realizing their problem as I have see more Craftsman Tool commercials on TV lately trying to drum up sales.

 

[Bobdog]

I care.

I'm sick of getting ripped off on China ****, so I buy US whenever possible/practical to do so.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[DodgeMech]

I care where the tools I buy are made. In order of preference 1. USA/Canada 2. Europe 3. Japan 4. Taiwan. And its still very rare that I buy a Taiwanese made tool. I refuse to buy from anywhere else and I definitely wont be buying any Chinese tools

Taiwan stuff is actually very good quality...my blue point ratchet wrenches take a beating...

 

[ecotec]

I have tools from everywhere. In my house box, i have mostly USA. I also have HF, Wera, Tajima, Wiha, Stabila, Olfa, Bahco, Knipex… After 20+ years of using Craftsman RP ratchets, I am loving my HF composite ratchets.

My work tool box, on the other hand, is 95%+ made in USA and my tool belt is also USA (Occidental Leather). My work tool box is only 8 1/2"x20", with Klein as the #1 brand. It is a small enough box that I can afford to stay USA. For a while, I was near 100%. I was using the Santronics tick tracer for a while. I missed my Fluke, though, so I put it back in my work tools. I also have the Wera 300 series screwdrivers(mixed with some Klein) in my work tools now. My Ideal voltage tester is also imported as are my Marble Memo notepads. Everything else is USA down to pencils, pens, lumber crayon and Sharpies.

 

[Pumpman1968]

I think what has bothered me the most is the loss tradition. Some of my earliest memories are of helping my Dad fix something on the farm........"hand me that wrench"...."hold this"....."point the flashlight where I can see, you *******". Fond memories like that. At work, he had a mismosh of S-K, Proto and other stuff from Grainger, but, at home, it was always Craftsman. When I got a little older and needed (wanted) some tools for myself, the stuff he bought me was Craftsman. When the holidays came, we would drive to the big city (Middletown NY) and go to the HUGE Sears store in the Orange Plaza mall. Isles and isles of shiny chrome goodness..........and I wanted all of it!

In 1983/84, I bought a 50 something piece 1/4" & 3/8" socket set from Sears in a hinged plastic case........probably paid for it with money I earned from mowing lawns or birthday money............I'm sure I paid a lot for it ($30 meant more than a couple of hours busting my *** pushing a pushmower) but I didn't care.......I just wanted it. The hinges on the box finally gave out a few years ago and I've replaced the ratchets, but, I still have at least 95% of the sockets and they are my "road box" and they get used EVERYDAY............30 something years later.



Back then, I didn't know of any other brand than Craftsman...............and to this day, when I grab something out of that box, I feel a very strong attachment to those tools. Hell, it was almost a struggle for me to replace the box and throw out the old one.

When you have an item for 25-30 years, handle it everyday, use it to make money and enjoy what you do with that item, you get more than attached to it. Not having them say "Made in USA" on the handle somehow changed all that.

 

[ecotec]

I probably have a higher percentage of goods made in USA in my home, than the vast majority of people. We are backdating our home to 1955. On the main floor of my home, all of my furniture is made in USA except one bookshelf (Ikea). It is a fun exercise, and I think it looks very nice. While the vast majority of our electronics are foreign. most of the other little details are made in USA. My stove is made in USA (crown top Frigidaire logo made only by General Motors).

I find this stuff at estate sales and yard sales mostly. I never buy from dealers. They want what things are worth. I am unwilling to pay anywhere near what things are worth. I have a 3 year old boy, a cat and a 124lb dog. I prefer to pay so little that I could hit it with a sledge hammer and still sell it for what I paid for it.

My recent purchases are an Atlas 1010 made in 1949 and a round top bench grinder made in 1962 (a week later, I found the OEM stand).

 

[montanafordman]

I think what has bothered me the most is the loss tradition. Some of my earliest memories are of helping my Dad fix something on the farm........"hand me that wrench"...."hold this"....."point the flashlight where I can see, you *******". Fond memories like that. At work, he had a mismosh of S-K, Proto and other stuff from Grainger, but, at home, it was always Craftsman. When I got a little older and needed (wanted) some tools for myself, the stuff he bought me was Craftsman. When the holidays came, we would drive to the big city (Middletown NY) and go to the HUGE Sears store in the Orange Plaza mall. Isles and isles of shiny chrome goodness..........and I wanted all of it!

In 1983/84, I bought a 50 something piece 1/4" & 3/8" socket set from Sears in a hinged plastic case........probably paid for it with money I earned from mowing lawns or birthday money............I'm sure I paid a lot for it ($30 meant more than a couple of hours busting my *** pushing a pushmower) but I didn't care.......I just wanted it. The hinges on the box finally gave out a few years ago and I've replaced the ratchets, but, I still have at least 95% of the sockets and they are my "road box" and they get used EVERYDAY............30 something years later.



Back then, I didn't know of any other brand than Craftsman...............and to this day, when I grab something out of that box, I feel a very strong attachment to those tools. Hell, it was almost a struggle for me to replace the box and throw out the old one.

When you have an item for 25-30 years, handle it everyday, use it to make money and enjoy what you do with that item, you get more than attached to it. Not having them say "Made in USA" on the handle somehow changed all that.

Well said and I agree. I care about where my tools are made and take pride in them also. I do think that the quality gap is narrowing among some brands and offshore doesn't automatically mean its ****, and American doesn't automatically mean quality which is making the public at large care less and less. That and the fact there is the lost tradition and interest in hands on activities that get you dirty or fixing something to get more years of service vs. throwing it away and getting another cheap product.

 

[nesw20]

i have tools from everywhere, but honestly if the quality is there i wouldn't be too upset one way or another where it's from. slight preference for US, but not a dealbreaker.

that said, my USA-made tools are higher quality than the others, so i like them more.

 

[u118224]

I do as well as the people on this forum, but the majority of people do not. If they did, Craftsman, Kobalt and Husky would still be US made and OTC, Mac, Matco and Cornwell wouldn't have so many imported tools. I've gotton so sick and tired of inferior Chinese drill bits that I now buy US made drill bits on line. I can't even find US made hand files anymore with the exception of E-Bay.

 

[Trey T]

Most people, no!

 

[Lance-AR]

I care about quality. In the used car market, it means a non-American car. In the tool market, it means American tools.

 

[rshadd]

I care. I prefer USA made tools, but quality comes first. The Germans made nice stuff too.

 

[Indexmill]

I see two key points here:

1) Most of us talk with fork-ed tongue. We say we want tools made in the USA because of jobs, quality, etc. But, then we turn around and spend $300B per year buying disposable **** from Walmart most of which is imported. Our words say we want quality but our actions buy cheap ****.

2) Those of us here as members on GJ represent 0.000000000000001% of the USA population and buying power. So, what we GJer's actually do/buy does not matter a damn bit in the grand scheme of things.

The simple fact is that we, the USA, are very expensive. We all want to earn $20 or $30 per hour (or more!). This fact is not anybody's fault; it is simply the result of our 200 years of legacy industrial development. 200 years ago, people worked for pennies. Over the 200 years, our pay has gone up and today, we "expect" to be paid highly. At the same time, we use our big paychecks to buy cheap **** at Walmart and then complain that nothing is manufactured in the USA anymore.

Workers in the third world still work for pennies. That's why they can make stuff so cheap and why USA manufacturers flocked there. Hell, the storm drain grate in my neighborhood was made in India. So, obviously, it is cheaper to make a 200# piece of pig iron in India and ship it 12,000 miles than it is to make it in Ohio and ship it 100 miles. We are very expensive.

If we are truly honest, we will understand the reality of the current state and realize that most of us talk with fork-ed tongue. None of us could begin to afford to buy everything made in the USA even if it were made here...because we are very expensive and none of us want to accept a pay cut...

Indexmill.

 

[Farmall450]

As long as COO correlates with Quality. So far it's been a pretty close correlation.

If that correlation falls apart then no one will care. However 95% don't care anyway since low price trumps everything else!!

It sure does...I can't imagine how auto part stores move their trashy lowest level china co tools, yet people buy them.

 

[48RON54]

I try to buy USA when possible. But if that option is not available or the price is completely prohibitive, I just choose anything not made in China (if even possible).

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Yes I care, and favor USA products.......

... but a large crowd of buyers are lured by the low price of the dime store ****

 

[goodinblack]

I care. I try to buy US made stuff. It seems almost impossible however.

Also. I have never bought a Asian car either. Never will.

Although cars are all screwed up now. Dodge is fiat etc.

Lacrosse made in chiner etc

 

[JDSV]

I see two key points here:

SNIP

2) Those of us here as members on GJ represent 0.000000000000001% of the USA population and buying power. So, what we GJer's actually do/buy does not matter a damn bit in the grand scheme of things.

SNIP

Sure maybe in the overall grand scheme of US/worldwide economics that may be true, but look at small businesses like Harry J Epsteins and Trident Industrial Supply. I'm pretty sure they get a TON of business from GJ members, and they know we look for quality USA tools.

 

[fireeqpsrv]

I was nosing around a sears store today and saw the craftsman stuff is made in china but was burned me is not even GearWrench is being made in china.

 

[monomach]

I was nosing around a sears store today and saw the craftsman stuff is made in china but was burned me is not even GearWrench is being made in china.

A good deal of Gearwrench IS made in China now. Not nearly as good as the Taiwan stuff that made them famous.

 

[OutsideMachinist]

Valid points all around. It is true if you are only buying used tools it doesn't really help the company or support usa jobs. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try and find better quality tools for cheaper if you can, it just is what it is. People here(us) are the minority. Most people don't even know craftsman isnt usa made anymore. The vast majority of people only buy whatever is cheapeast if they arent heavy DIYer's or professionals. Sears and whoever sells cheap **** cause thats what the market dictates. Thats what most people want/arguably need.

 

[BikerDad]

Yes. Everybody cares. Some just care more than others.

Country of Origin is a good (not perfect) indicator of quality. So are the actual manufacturer, manufacturing date, and product line. I know that a current production Lie-Nielsen plane is a better plane than any comparable (i.e. #4 Bedrock vs L-N #4) Stanley plane ever made. I also know that a Stanley Sweetheart today is better than a Stanley from Home Depot, and certainly a damn sight better than any handplane from China except maybe a Woodriver, yet a Stanley plane made a hundred years ago will give it a run for it's money.

Add it two other factors, the first being value proposition, which in addition to quality depends on price, service and support, warranty and other such not-nonsense. The second factor is patriotism/political/ethical concerns, and yes, COO does matter to everybody. It simply matters more to some people than others. Perhaps there are individuals out there who, if presented with 100 pairs of identical tools, 1 set from their home country and the other from the People's Democratic Federation of DastardlyBastardsStan, will 50 tools from each. Perhaps, but I doubt it.

The real question isn't "Do people really care about CoO"? It's "how much do people care about CoO?"

There are actually very few things that you cannot find "Made In America" being produced right now. You just have to be willing to look, and willing to pay. In this respect, for those concerned with such things, we are blessed, because no country makes a wider range of goods than the US. This is as much a factor of our being the largest single market in the world and largest economy in the world for more than a century as it is any special "American genius".

And no, there's nothing exceptional about Americans having a preference for American tools. The Germans and the Japanese make Americans look like wild eyed Global Citizens in this regard.

 

[4x4_G30_Sportvan]

First, the big poster child for this whole issue is always going to be Craftsman. And it's partly about them selling the USA made as a feature, but mostly in the severe drop in quality from USA to China. They could have got a lot better quality from a chinese factory if they wanted it. So to a large degree, bringing up Craftsman on either side of the debate is kind of hurting your argument. Sears just made ****** decisions.

At the same time as manufacturing has moved, the level of quality that's acceptable for goods of all kinds has decreased. Clothing, furniture, you name it. Disposable economy and the people who fuel it will always choose with cost as the primary or maybe only factor. Short sighted, but I do think some of it has to do with the way technology is moving, outmoding several expensive prior purchases leaves you burned. If you spent $1200 on VHS and then the same on LaserDisc, would you again spend the same on DVD or wait and see? A $99 player will get you by while the uncertain technology is sorted out in the market. When it dies, a $99 bluray will too.

I didn't used to care myself. I feel like manufacturing is a thing the first world economy evolves past. Not all, but certainly simple stamped and forged pieces like a combination wrench. Same as we have outgrown making any kind of electrical components or printing circuit boards. Much more advanced than hand tools and yet which moved out of the US borders first?

Quality is what I look for. Specifically the sweet spot. I have been burned by tools that cost a lot and tools that cost a little, failing. I have been pleasantly surprised by several very cheap (looking, feeling, and costing) tools that are great. I have been more impressed with how good GW is for the cost, for example, than how good I could get spending more on truck brands. Some guys need it, some guys don't. I won't criticize someone for buying what fits their needs but I always start with the middle and go up or down as needed.

Really well put. Strongly agree with your analysis.

 

[4x4_G30_Sportvan]

I know its been said here many times that most of the target Craftsman customers don't really care where tools are made. But I think they do. Look at the reviews of the tools on Sears.com. I was looking at the reviews of the 42pc bit socket set and most reviews expressed disappointment in being made in China. Even their Facebook page is post after post of people expressing their disappointment. Maybe Sears will read these and listen to what customers want. I have heard the Lowes coo switch argument and how no one cared. But Kobalt tools do not have the legacy that Craftsman tools do. I truly believe that people are just buying Craftsman and assuming they are USA made because they have always been made here. And I think Sears knows this and is counting on it.

I see what you are saying, but that snapshot of reviews on craftsman/sears.com is probably only 5-10% of the buyers overall. The vast majority don't care, and aren't taking the time to post.

It is only the unhappy/disgruntled who post reviews, and is not an accurate indicator.

I too am disappointed that Craftsman is going over to China. Each of us will have to make our decision as to what we will do, what we are able to do.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

This is actually a great thread idea. Lots of bickering and strong ideals exist on both sides, and it's nice to see personal perspectives.

To start in the way those before me did; as a young kid, I too helped my father repair our cars (mostly American at first), do basic home repairs, and attempt to install ceiling fans. Most of my memories involve being screamed at, nervously holding a D-cell flashlight in the general direction of what I thought we were working on, and not having the right tools. About 75% US, mostly craftsman, then some Chinese and Taiwanese making up the rest. Problem was, we rarely actually could just tackle a job. First we would attempt to remove a rusty metric bolt with a 12-point SAE socket. I learned the right tool was always worth the price.


This theme of ALWAYS having the right tool, or something close, is now my #1 philosophy. I still use some 3/8s sockets from my first tool set, a 150-ish piece craftsman set, yes, it was USA. I've lost a few over the years, replaced with other brands at random. I have 6 or so brands between 6 and 19. On the craftsman topic, I never was all that impressed in general. I vastly prefer my Sunex combo wrenches to my US craftsmans.




Anyways, COO is basically irrelevant to me. I love Taiwan, thanks to brands like sunex and GW; gives me a LOT of variety and buying power. For instance, in 3/8 drive, I have shallow, semi-deep, and deep, all 3 types in both impact and chrome. Some are snap-on, some parts-store generic, some GW, some sunex, some matco..... It's on a taiwanese tray too, works as well as any US tray I've seen. Matco/Mac have really gotten on my **** list, because if I'm buying Taiwan, I'm supposed to be saving money. Snap On I'm currently aggravated with. A string of slow warranty claims (dealer was having health issues, not his fault, no ill-will) followed by his retirement, and now no dealer. I have $250 worth of busted snap on stuff that is making me $0. I buy from brands I trust. I buy cheap versions first, then upgrade later if/when the tool re-pays itself. I'm a mechanic, every day, 55+ hours a week. It can be stressful. I don't need debt adding to that stress. I use my HF impact sockets literally every day. In 5 years of daily shop use, I broke 1. I used another socket to finish the job, and since I spit the socket with a 6-foot cheater bar, I don't blame poor quality.




tl;dr - I love my tools, and don't care where they come from. USA can ****, any country can make a ****** design or have a poor production run. Basic common sense while looking at things like casting quality, ratchet mechanism free-play, etc. will usually prevent buying bad tools.

Tools are like women, every nation has at least one good example. Seriously though, where can I find some red-headed tools?

 

[Brownsfan]

I think the reason for many being as upset as they are at Sears is what Cheechi stated. They for YEARS hung their hats on being USA made. And now calling themselves the most trusted tool in America. It's a slap in the face. Especially to someone like myself who owns a lot of USA Craftsman. I haven't broke much over the years but i can't get an equal replacement if i do break something. VIA warranty or even a new purchase. When I started a job at 19 where some tools were required I went straight to Sears. No where else. Now if I had to start over I wouldn't buy a thing there. And this was only the late 90s. How things have changed in a short amount of time.

 

[gearhead1]

I'm a craftsman guy. I can't understand spending SO prices, so I stick with sears made in USA. Will switch to SK or another USA made tool when sears goes under. I see the quality difference and I have bent wrenches made in China. I can't remember breaking more than 1 made in USA craftsman wrench.

Ditto!

 

[Brownsfan]

I truly think a lot more care than just the few of us. I think they just don't know. And they assume craftsman is still USA made. Sears knows this and are counting on it. I can't tell you how many times talking to friends and family and telling them about the China switch they are just shocked. They are riding the wave of their former glory. I think as more people realize the switch the more backlash they will get. Just look at how many times a new member pops up and vents about it because they just found out. Again sears is counting on ignorance and that's why they call themselves America's most trusted tool brand. People just think it still USA made. The slogan says so.

 

[d.mcfarland]

I think our society just wants more for less. The average homeowner wants more house, tools, cars, clothes, etc for the same salary. In most people's opinion, I think they see a brand new wrench set (for example) as better than a perfectly used quality set like Snap-On. They whole culture is geared towards new new new, not buy once and buy right.

 

[vssjim]

I care. I try to buy US made stuff. It seems almost impossible however.

Also. I have never bought a Asian car either. Never will.

Although cars are all screwed up now. Dodge is fiat etc.

Lacrosse made in chiner etc

LaCrosse is not made in china for the US market, it was designed with a larger back seat to sold to big wigs in china as well as the US car buyers. The china market hold Buick as a premium brand and they sell them there for executive limo cars.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

There are a multitude of people who know little to nothing about quality tools and their proper use.. Quality tools would be a waste of money for these folks...Screwdrivers were made to open paint cans and scrape gum off the bottom of the kitchen table.. Their 3/8" to 1" wrenches don't work worth a darn on the newer cars,, Their new carpenters saw hardly cuts after trimming only three tree roots... His Wife buys him ""tools"" for Christmas and Father's Day...That gal is on a budget... What is there to know??

 

[goodinblack]

I for one am tired of the **** that Americans commission china to make and send over here. Its our own fault.

Also. Unlike American people the Chinese government looks out for their own good. They don't have stupid bleeding heart liberals over there preaching empathy. They want to sell us stuff and make money. Period.

 

[dR_Freightliner]

When I was a kid, my dad had & still has some of the original craftsman tools that were made in USA. I think its made in China now they don't feel the same. I have a tool box full of craftsman for my home garage & they work fine, but occasionally they feel like garbage and I think that's because I'm use to my snap on tools at work.

I have seen some of Snap-On products like flash lights & work boots made in China though.

 

[DodgeMech]

When I was a kid, my dad had & still has some of the original craftsman tools that were made in USA. I think its made in China now they don't feel the same. I have a tool box full of craftsman for my home garage & they work fine, but occasionally they feel like garbage and I think that's because I'm use to my snap on tools at work.

I have seen some of Snap-On products like flash lights & work boots made in China though.

Snapon sublets their name out on those things...don't actually make them...like Mac and matco do on everything

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

The bottom line is a lot of us take pride in owning made in USA tools. Like most guys on this site, I would rather have a box of Snap On tools than a Rolex. I grew up in my grandfather's garage with model A's and T's and I owe my quality of life to my family's auto parts business that sold 100% American made auto parts. Buying cheap *** import tools doesn't give me the sense of pride that I was raised with. We all own some import tools, but I wish that wasnt the case. There was a time in American history where Americans only had the option of buying American, which is why my grandmother has a 40 year old coffee maker and I have been through 3 *********** coffee makers in the last 10 years. Most Americans have a disposable mindset; sure, you can break and throw away three cheap *** ratchets from Harbor Freight for less than the price of one quality American made ratchet, but why? Why do we tolerate that ********?


Back to the beer..........

 

[dR_Freightliner]

Snapon sublets their name out on those things...don't actually make them...like Mac and matco do on everything

yeah, but their tools are good and made in US so that's what matters for me.

 

[almac]

since I'm not a professional I tend to buy tools based on a few things.
price
quality
frequency of use
country of manufacture

if its' a tool I will rarely use, price comes first. I rarely use an oil filter wrench, so I can't warrant the expense of buying the best.
if its' a tool that I use frequently, i'll spend more. I happen to own a 20 year old set of craftsman(made in the USA) sockets. they are still like new!

while I respect quality tools, I have had very good results from cheaper tools over the years.

 

[byoungblood]

I think more people care than what companies think. That's why they usually tend to offshore their wares rather quietly. If you asked the average person they'd probably tell you everything Craftsman is still made in the USA.

I have some Asian stuff, but usually it is something I bought for very infrequent use. Almost all of my basic hand tools are all US made.