I am trying to decide what polyaspartic, cylcoalipatic(like epoxy coat), or other epoxy product to put on my two garage floors, @1300 sq ft total. I have been researching the different products on the markets, have read every post on this forum, and am now more confused than ever. The floors are 14 years old, hard and fairly well polished (per a rep from Premier Garage), and in good condition except for some settlement cracks and some minor divots. I know I will need to fill the cracks and prepare or have the floor correctly prepared before any product is applied. Beyond that, I am not sure I understand the real difference other than drying time between a polyaspartic, cycloalipatic, and other epoxy types. Is one really more durable than the others, assuming the floor is correctly prepared and the product correctly applied. If I am going to do the work or have it done (a very expensive option), I want a floor that I am not going to have to reapply 10 years down the road when I am 73. I know that in some products you get what you pay for, but from my experience in gems and jewelry (gemolologist/appraiser) I know that a diamond from Tiffanys is really no better or beautiful than a comparable quality diamond bought from another, less expensive source. You just pay more a Tiffanys. Any advice is appreciated. Thank you
Confused new guy
- Thread starter Thor01
- Start date
'the epoxy floor guy'
Well-known member
First of all, Unfortunately the MORE people you ask the MORE opinions you get.
I am A HUGE Polyaspartic fan. They have Shown a TON of promise and are developing a GREAT installed track record.
The technology is only about 15-17 years old. It was NOT originally designated for concrete applications. It was commissioned by the US government to paint battleships and air craft carriers. It was then adapted by the companies that line chemical storage tanks. they would spray this coating on the inside to protect the steel.
It was Later used in concrete coatings. The first I know of it being used in the "decorative" coating market was in late 2005 - early 2006.
The process of adding chips or other decorative items did present unique challenges because of the products properties and the incredible SPEED of it's curing.
That being said It is a GREAT product. IF you are looking to install the floor yourself though, I may suggest to you to ONLY use it as a clear coat. We regularly use it for a base coat but it dries SO FAST it is all but impossible for the "non professional" to work with. You literally have 8-15 minutes to use it once it's mixed.
As to the overall, If a contractor is WELL versed in Polyaspartic That would be my product of choice.
Good luck!
BTW where are you from, I may have a contact that I could recommend.
I am A HUGE Polyaspartic fan. They have Shown a TON of promise and are developing a GREAT installed track record.
The technology is only about 15-17 years old. It was NOT originally designated for concrete applications. It was commissioned by the US government to paint battleships and air craft carriers. It was then adapted by the companies that line chemical storage tanks. they would spray this coating on the inside to protect the steel.
It was Later used in concrete coatings. The first I know of it being used in the "decorative" coating market was in late 2005 - early 2006.
The process of adding chips or other decorative items did present unique challenges because of the products properties and the incredible SPEED of it's curing.
That being said It is a GREAT product. IF you are looking to install the floor yourself though, I may suggest to you to ONLY use it as a clear coat. We regularly use it for a base coat but it dries SO FAST it is all but impossible for the "non professional" to work with. You literally have 8-15 minutes to use it once it's mixed.
As to the overall, If a contractor is WELL versed in Polyaspartic That would be my product of choice.
Good luck!
BTW where are you from, I may have a contact that I could recommend.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
I though you where a huge fan of air catalyst single component acrylics?
I wouldn't get too hung up on formulas. There are many , many formulas for many , many different applications. All you should really worry about is who is actually installing this for you. Any installer could cut corners, either by rolling it on thin, cutting the product with thinners, using a lot less chips and even skimping on concrete preparation.
See some finished 3 to 5 yr old jobs by some licensed contractors. Get references. Do your homework. Remember, if money is your main concern, you'll get what you pay for.
Good luck
I live at Canyon Lake, TX about 35 miles north of San Antonio. After getting a couple of bids from professionals, and speaking with reps selling DIY kits, I am currently inclined to apply the coating myself for the following reasons. I am pretty much retired, have a lot of time on my hands, am pretty good with "projects", have good attention to detail and can follow directions to the letter, and have two garages that I can cycle things between. I know that I probably will not do as good a job as some pros, but will likely do as good as or better than others. The problem that I am having with the decision process is everyone I have spoken with touts their product as the best, and I expected nothing less from reps that really believe in the product they are selling. However, with floor coatings, I find myself in the same state of ignorance based on lack of training and experience as are many of my clients that I have helped select and evaluate the best gemstones and jewelry for them over the years. The more I research these coatings, the more I understand that I don't know. Show me ten diamonds and I will tell you which is he best and why. Show me ten floor coatings and all I can say is I can't tell one from the other.
I forgot to mention one thing about my garages that may impact what is best for me. The garage floor concrete extends about 12 inches outside of my garage doors before an expansion joint separates it from the brushed pebble surface driveway. This area gets a lot of afternoon sun, so I imagine I need a UV protected coating. Thanks again for any inputs.
SC-Eric
Well-known member
Hi Thor,
I can see why you would be more confused after reading all of the posts here. There is a lot of misinformation posted in all kinds of forums by well meaning people, even some here. While everyone may have an opinion, not all opinions are equal. I would suggest to you that you understand the qualifications of the individual/s that you are taking advice from. With all forums, sometimes the person behind a screen name is giving advice about something that they don't really understand. They might even be some kind of middle age loser living in their mother's basement who gets a rush from giving advice to people. It reminds me of the old SNL sketch where Chris Farley plays a motivational speaker who is actually a loser living off the government and living in a van down by the river...lol... You can watch that here: http://vodpod.com/watch/472139-living-in-a-van-down-by-the-river
I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular... just a generality. Hopefully everyone here has a high enough self esteem that they can just take my word for that. If not... well... don't listen to that guy...lol... The point is, be careful who you take advice from.
Now, your question is: what is the difference between polyaspartic and cycloaliphatic epoxy or other epoxy... Basically, what is difference in the chemistry of polymer flooring.
There are MANY types of epoxy materials. The epoxy cycloaliphatics will be on the upper edge of performance when compared to waterbornes, amidoamines, polyamides, or standard aliphatic epoxies. However, when I say that I am speaking in relativity. Each of those chemistries have different advantages. The cycloaliphatics in general are more resistant to yellowing. It becomes hard to generalize the chemisty because performance is so dependent on the actual formulation. In other words, a cycloaliphatic system might outperform a polyamide for abrasion resistance, but it wouldn't if the polyamide is modified ceramically. But, IN GENERAL, cycloaliphatic epoxies are the upper end for garage floor epoxies. *Better things exist... they are just generally outside of most people's budget for a garage floor.
Polyaspartics are a type of polyurea but just made with a diamine. Polyaspartics are difficult to formulate and there are a TON of bad formulations out there. They cure ultra quick and the problem is always trying to slow them down. Furthermore, water drives the reaction. The biggest problem that we have seen is from solvented polyaspartics. It's just a bad idea to put solvent in them. While it slows down the cure to make it easier to apply, it leaves a huge potential for the top to skin over (because it is curing faster due to moisture in the air) and then it traps the solvent in the coating. SO, it can leave you with solvent odor oozing out of your floor for months. It can make your house stink and can make you sick. There was a post about that on these forums about a year ago. Anyway, a good polyaspartic formulation will give you a durable floor that is resistant to yellowing. To date, we have not been able to commercialize a polyaspartic that we would feel is responsible to sell to a homeowner or other DIY application. It seems that every time we develop a more advanced idiot proof coating... THEY develop a more advanced idiot... lol. So, we developed a 90% solids hybrid urethane that gives you the surface benefits with a much easier application. It is much slower to cure though than a comparable polyaspartic. Many users have sung it's praises on these forums.
SO,
IF you are going to do it yourself, I would suggest a combination of products.
First, use a good 100% solids epoxy primer that is NOT moisture sensitive.
Second, use a good cycloalipahtic 100% solids epoxy body coat...
Last, topcoat with a High Performance ALIPAHTIC urethane.
My garage floor is similar to yours with about an 8-10" skirt outside of the garage door that I wanted to protect. So, I did my floor as I described above but stopped the decorative part of the coating at the garage door. I cut a groove in the concrete (a key) that is under the garage door when it is shut. It's not that hard to do. Then, when I topcoated my flakes with the EnduraShield 2254 urethane I continued that out past the garage door. So, it's got a nice clear protecting it.
I can see why you would be more confused after reading all of the posts here. There is a lot of misinformation posted in all kinds of forums by well meaning people, even some here. While everyone may have an opinion, not all opinions are equal. I would suggest to you that you understand the qualifications of the individual/s that you are taking advice from. With all forums, sometimes the person behind a screen name is giving advice about something that they don't really understand. They might even be some kind of middle age loser living in their mother's basement who gets a rush from giving advice to people. It reminds me of the old SNL sketch where Chris Farley plays a motivational speaker who is actually a loser living off the government and living in a van down by the river...lol... You can watch that here: http://vodpod.com/watch/472139-living-in-a-van-down-by-the-river
I'm not pointing a finger at anyone in particular... just a generality. Hopefully everyone here has a high enough self esteem that they can just take my word for that. If not... well... don't listen to that guy...lol... The point is, be careful who you take advice from.
Now, your question is: what is the difference between polyaspartic and cycloaliphatic epoxy or other epoxy... Basically, what is difference in the chemistry of polymer flooring.
There are MANY types of epoxy materials. The epoxy cycloaliphatics will be on the upper edge of performance when compared to waterbornes, amidoamines, polyamides, or standard aliphatic epoxies. However, when I say that I am speaking in relativity. Each of those chemistries have different advantages. The cycloaliphatics in general are more resistant to yellowing. It becomes hard to generalize the chemisty because performance is so dependent on the actual formulation. In other words, a cycloaliphatic system might outperform a polyamide for abrasion resistance, but it wouldn't if the polyamide is modified ceramically. But, IN GENERAL, cycloaliphatic epoxies are the upper end for garage floor epoxies. *Better things exist... they are just generally outside of most people's budget for a garage floor.
Polyaspartics are a type of polyurea but just made with a diamine. Polyaspartics are difficult to formulate and there are a TON of bad formulations out there. They cure ultra quick and the problem is always trying to slow them down. Furthermore, water drives the reaction. The biggest problem that we have seen is from solvented polyaspartics. It's just a bad idea to put solvent in them. While it slows down the cure to make it easier to apply, it leaves a huge potential for the top to skin over (because it is curing faster due to moisture in the air) and then it traps the solvent in the coating. SO, it can leave you with solvent odor oozing out of your floor for months. It can make your house stink and can make you sick. There was a post about that on these forums about a year ago. Anyway, a good polyaspartic formulation will give you a durable floor that is resistant to yellowing. To date, we have not been able to commercialize a polyaspartic that we would feel is responsible to sell to a homeowner or other DIY application. It seems that every time we develop a more advanced idiot proof coating... THEY develop a more advanced idiot... lol. So, we developed a 90% solids hybrid urethane that gives you the surface benefits with a much easier application. It is much slower to cure though than a comparable polyaspartic. Many users have sung it's praises on these forums.
SO,
IF you are going to do it yourself, I would suggest a combination of products.
First, use a good 100% solids epoxy primer that is NOT moisture sensitive.
Second, use a good cycloalipahtic 100% solids epoxy body coat...
Last, topcoat with a High Performance ALIPAHTIC urethane.
My garage floor is similar to yours with about an 8-10" skirt outside of the garage door that I wanted to protect. So, I did my floor as I described above but stopped the decorative part of the coating at the garage door. I cut a groove in the concrete (a key) that is under the garage door when it is shut. It's not that hard to do. Then, when I topcoated my flakes with the EnduraShield 2254 urethane I continued that out past the garage door. So, it's got a nice clear protecting it.
Thank you for that reply. It is the best comprehensive, yet understandable explanation I have have on this subject. I am assuming that your Bond Tite 1101, LiquaTile 1184, and EnduraShield 2254 are the three products you are refering to in the explanation above.
JD in DFW
Well-known member
First of all, Unfortunately the MORE people you ask the MORE opinions you get.
I am A HUGE Polyaspartic fan. They have Shown a TON of promise and are developing a GREAT installed track record.
The technology is only about 15-17 years old. It was NOT originally designated for concrete applications. It was commissioned by the US government to paint battleships and air craft carriers. It was then adapted by the companies that line chemical storage tanks. they would spray this coating on the inside to protect the steel.
It was Later used in concrete coatings. The first I know of it being used in the "decorative" coating market was in late 2005 - early 2006.
The process of adding chips or other decorative items did present unique challenges because of the products properties and the incredible SPEED of it's curing.
That being said It is a GREAT product. IF you are looking to install the floor yourself though, I may suggest to you to ONLY use it as a clear coat. We regularly use it for a base coat but it dries SO FAST it is all but impossible for the "non professional" to work with. You literally have 8-15 minutes to use it once it's mixed.
As to the overall, If a contractor is WELL versed in Polyaspartic That would be my product of choice.
Good luck!
BTW where are you from, I may have a contact that I could recommend.
Man sounds like you have been drinking the Cool Aid from Slide-Lok/Premier Garage and Citadel all at once. You almost quoted their sales pitches word for word....I'm impressed
You left out the lines about it being used as truck bed liners and water take sealers...more fancy talk from the above companies.
I really get a kick out of your posts dude...please keep them coming.
thegarageguy
Well-known member
Polyaspartic That would be my product of choice.
What ever happened to your Jesus Christ super star, part the red sea, walk on water, easy to use, single component, 10 times stronger and longer lasting acrylic nail polish that you where pushing a couple of weeks ago???
You need to make up your mind dude.
JD in DFW
Well-known member
What ever happened to your Jesus Christ super star, part the red sea, walk on water, easy to use, single component, 10 times stronger and longer lasting acrylic nail polish that you where pushing a couple of weeks ago???
You need to make up your mind dude.
Yea what about all that Troy?
I ran into a couple of your guys at a local Home Show a few weeks back...boy what a couple of winners there. When I asked the guy about the product they use he kept telling me it was a one day "epoxy" that cures in 2 hours. Kept asking him if he was sure about that..."oh yea 2-3 hours and your driving on it" They did have some nice hand-out pins though
. One of the guys in the booth I swear I have seen in the back woods of Ark. with a banjo on his knee.....How about some product info MSDS sheets posted? I'm sure you have those if you are shipping it all over. The chemical manufacturing company that private labels the stuff for you should have those readily available.
Oh and I love your site, you have to register just to see parts of it??? Whats the deal with that??
If I sign up as an Amazing Garage dealer do I get the whole kit: Buckboard Wagon, Swing Cane, Stovetop Hat and the fancy suite???
'the epoxy floor guy'
Well-known member
Man sounds like you have been drinking the Cool Aid from Slide-Lok/Premier Garage and Citadel all at once. You almost quoted their sales pitches word for word....I'm impressed
You left out the lines about it being used as truck bed liners and water take sealers...more fancy talk from the above companies.
I really get a kick out of your posts dude...please keep them coming.
That's because I wrote MOST of their stuff. I have been approached to do marketing for polyaspartic. If you don't tell your customers about your product WHO WILL???
Marketing 101
I like BOTH products, If you think you can handle Polyaspartics GO FOR IT.
THis is a DIY site. Most people on this site do not intend to do it for a living and invest the time to "learn" the product inside and out.
THis guy OBVIOUSLY has done his homework. He was asking if anyone had any PRACTICAL experience with POLYASP. I gave him my opinion of THAT product.
As to the snake oil, Walk on Water, I still think it is a MUCH better choice for MOST people who want to do their garage. As I have stated many times.
I am a person who "sells" my product. The reason I do it is because it WORKS, you should try it sometime.
Every time you "haters" bash on me You get one guy to say "yeah he's a farce" and I get Five new people to sign up for my stuff.
So go ahead BASH me. The more you do the more people find out about the REAL me.
I have thick skin.
JD in DFW
Well-known member
That's because I wrote MOST of their stuff. I have been approached to do marketing for polyaspartic. If you don't tell your customers about your product WHO WILL???
Marketing 101
I like BOTH products, If you think you can handle Polyaspartics GO FOR IT.
THis is a DIY site. Most people on this site do not intend to do it for a living and invest the time to "learn" the product inside and out.
THis guy OBVIOUSLY has done his homework. He was asking if anyone had any PRACTICAL experience with POLYASP. I gave him my opinion of THAT product.
As to the snake oil, Walk on Water, I still think it is a MUCH better choice for MOST people who want to do their garage. As I have stated many times.
I am a person who "sells" my product. The reason I do it is because it WORKS, you should try it sometime.
Every time you "haters" bash on me You get one guy to say "yeah he's a farce" and I get Five new people to sign up for my stuff.
So go ahead BASH me. The more you do the more people find out about the REAL me.
I have thick skin.
Yea you wrote it for them...... right Troy. You might want to let their marketing Depts know that. Dude your a wannabe MLM scam artist like many that have come and gone. I'll give you one thing your full of yourself that is more then evident. It's guys like you that give good contractors and other flooring guys a bad name.
You never did answer the questions posed to you in the other posts by myself and GarageGuy with regard to your coating products make up, MSDS sheet, your website ect. Guess you only comment on subjects that can promote yourself or your product.
This is a DIY site this we agree on, but you seem to try and sell and promote yourself and your snake oil/miracle coatings every chance you get and that sir is sleazy and just plain wrong. If you sponsor this board or own part of it then it would be another story, but I have yet to see that as the case. If I am in correct in this matter please correct me of the fact.
Personally I think you should be band from the board for all the self promoting you have done on this board....or go start your own....since your such a great marketing genius as you claim this should be an easy feat for you. Heck It should get twice the traffic as this board does right???
Also might I suggest you learn to use spell/grammar check. All the fragmented sentences and partial capitalized words really show your lack of grammar and sentences structure. I'm sure you learned all that though in those higher level marketing courses you took with Tony Robbins and Zig Ziglar back in the 80's...right Troy??
I guess you invented all the polyaspartic coatings and marketing that followed after all this right??
Please keep the laughs coming....
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SC-Eric
Well-known member
Hi Thor,
Thanks! Those are the products that we are allowing Fred to sell to the DIY market. Contact Fred with AlphaGarage if you need some more information!