Compressor piping

[rinny_tin_tin]

Ok - I ordered my 60 gal Quincy etc and now I'm getting set to install air distr sys. I have seen the good diagrams etc from various sources - but, the more I look, the more questions I have as to what type of pipe to run. There were some negative comments for black iron pipe - what I was getting set to run, and I think I know the the issues with copper and not to run pvc, etc but now I see some manufacturers offering aluminum piping. I'm sure this has been done before in GJ (I wish they had an indexing system for select good threads) but what is the skinny and general consensus amongst you GJers?


Cheers

 

[35mastr]

I have always used copper3/4 to 1/2.Black pipe rusts inside and out.Never had a line blow apart.Have run 175-190 PSI through the copper for years.

Worked in a dealerships for 15 years and they all had copper.

 

[krooser]

Well I have black pipe...ten years old...no rust in any of my lines. Drain your compressor on a regular basis, put in some line drops and you'll be fine. Still scared? cap one end and pour some paint into the pipe...swish around and let it dry. Rust issue is over... period.

Copper is good, too. Aluminum is very pricey. PVC is dangerous.

 

[Torque1st]

Those aluminum systems also have the problem of being around 5-10-15 years from now when you want to change or expand the system, -especially with the economy the way it is.

Galvanized pipe could be used also.

The paint is a good idea also.

In a home shop a pipe running around the walls waist high would eliminate the dog leg at the top of each drop. It would take some more planning tho.

 

[mmg440]

Both copper and Black Pipe have been well proven over many years. There may be pros and cons to each but in many cases they do not even come up.

Copper better heat exchange and not rust. Should be silver soldered or brazed also standard lead seems to never cause a problem.

Black pipe, a lot more durable to impact or hanging parts and stuff on, I haven't seen actual rust that effected a system, Threaded part many times easier for a DIY not used to running copper. Copper is easer for someone used to running brazing or soldering. Threading black pipe can be a lot of work. One other plus of black pipe I know of systems 50+ years old still in current operation.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

OK - what about this flex nylon tubing system that runs for $139 for 100 feet of tubing and a handful of connectors?

see here:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/

 

[35mastr]

This seems to be the latest in air pipe.I have been seeing a big push on it.



http://www.garage-pak.com/

 

[35mastr]

rinny check your PM's

 

[mmg440]

OK - what about this flex nylon tubing system that runs for $139 for 100 feet of tubing and a handful of connectors?

see here:
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/

I have been curious about them, I guess still newer endurance is not known about to much yet.

Dosn't mean it bad or good. I think I would get the air 5-10feet away from the compressor before putting in the log for the tubing. (to help keep the heat down)

 

[Torque1st]

Plastic does very little "right" for an air distribution system.

-Heat transfer is poor.
-Droops and is prone to puddling of any liquids.
-Fails in a fire and increases flame spread.

 

[e-tek]

I have always used copper3/4 to 1/2.Black pipe rusts inside and out.Never had a line blow apart.Have run 175-190 PSI through the copper for years.

Worked in a dealerships for 15 years and they all had copper.

Looks like someone knows how to use the Search button and came loaded for bear!!! Too bad you are as wrong as **** bro!!

Black pipe doesn't rust "inside and out" - where the F do you get that? Most every shop in the world has used balck pipe for a hundred years - including the OE's and dealership shops - I've been in them! That also includes HIGH END exoticar shops. Any scale that comes loose in the pipe is easily caught by the filter traps - and the rusty condensate starts right in the compressor - so there' no escaping it.
Now that's off my chest (sorry to call you out - still friends?) that's not to say Copper isn't good too.

 

[Mezzanine]

The only thing appealing to me about the plastic kits is their ease of installation. Doesn't come close to metal pipe in a number of categories as mentioned above. I am going the black pipe route myself- Stay tuned for a upcoming post documenting my whole process! (/shameless plug)

Seriously, copper of black pipe will take good care of you. Black pipe might be cheaper and easier for most. Also offers ease of modification down the road. Of course, if you know how to braze then copper does too...



C

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Plastic does very little "right" for an air distribution system.

-Heat transfer is poor.
-Droops and is prone to puddling of any liquids.
-Fails in a fire and increases flame spread.

Yup - my first thought was that I would lose the cooling/condensing benefits provided by a metal pipe. Also - it looks like I'm to close to the limits of the max working pressure of the plastic pipe -it is limited to 188 psi while my compressor is capable of putting out 175 - not a comfortable margin. It seems the black-pipe rust propaganda may have been started by the aluminum and/or the plastic pipe lobbies. The fueling of a fire is a concern; however, in such a case, something is going to blow - and hopefully its the overpressure valve (first) at the receiver

 

[35mastr]

Looks like someone knows how to use the Search button and came loaded for bear!!! Too bad you are as wrong as **** bro!!

Black pipe doesn't rust "inside and out" - where the F do you get that? Most every shop in the world has used balck pipe for a hundred years - including the OE's and dealership shops - I've been in them! That also includes HIGH END exoticar shops. Any scale that comes loose in the pipe is easily caught by the filter traps - and the rusty condensate starts right in the compressor - so there' no escaping it.
Now that's off my chest (sorry to call you out - still friends?) that's not to say Copper isn't good too.

How can you say that steel pipe is not going to rust inside or out.It is steel and is going to rust over time.That is just the nature of steel.With any air inside of it is going to condensate.Especially in colder climate or higher humidity.

I swap out pipe frequently at work and its all sch 40 or sch 80 pipe.Its usually due to condensating causing rusty leaks at the fittings.

Most people use it because its just cheaper way out and may not have the skillls to sweat copper.

All I did was just state some facts and my own opinion.

 

[slacktide]

Seriously, copper of black pipe will take good care of you. Black pipe might be cheaper and easier for most. Also offers ease of modification down the road. Of course, if you know how to braze then copper does too...

People keep saying this, and I'm not sure why... I'm the original cheapo, so at first I was going to run iron pipe to save some cash. But around here at least, the steel is MORE expensive. 10' of 3/4" type L copper is $13.11, and 10' of 3/4" black steel pipe is $16.79. If you want to go 1/2", its $8.23 for copper and $8.98 for steel

Personally, I find sweating with 95/5 to be WAY easier than dealing with threaded pipe... And if you don't know how to sweat pipe you really should learn anyway. Nothing's worse that that running a whole bunch of threaded pipe then finding a leaker at the very beginning of the line. Also having to rent a threader or make 20 trips to the store to get the right lengths of pipe. Plus with copper, its super easy to break into the line in the middle of the run and add an additional drop if you find you need one. With steel, you'd have to take the whole thing apart from one end.

Dan

 

[Steve in Mi]

Plus with copper, its super easy to break into the line in the middle of the run and add an additional drop if you find you need one. With steel, you'd have to take the whole thing apart from one end.

Dan

Dan, it really isn't necessary to take the whole thing apart. Cut near where the new drop (or whatever is to be added) will go with a hacksaw/sawsall, remove the ends. Now shorten*, rethread ends, add your tee drop, a union and reassemble.

* Those familiar with running pipe will measure, make the cuts, thread the pipe and assemble without disturbing the rest of the piping system. It seems like magic to me but I've seen it done time and again so I know it is quite possible.

I used copper** for my air lines but I have a buddy that could make that change to black iron so quick it would give you pause as to which is easier to modify. I'd say other factors to consider in installing a air piping system would be a persons expertise and comfort level with the particular material he decides to run - assuming it meets the job requirements to start with.

** The way I installed my air lines, fwiw.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ers#post116465
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

 

[jshillin]

I'm looking at this as well. I'm torn between copper and aluminum. I have a couple weeks to decide because I'm still in the process of finishing my garage. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. I plan on mounting 1 hose reel right by the compressor and then piping over to the middle of the garage across the ceiling and mount another hose reel. I shouldn't need more than 20' of pipe and a few fittings. I've ran copper before so it wouldn't be a problem. How do you connect the aluminum?

 

[larry4406]

I used black iron pipe. 2 years ago it was cheaper than copper, maybe different today given the economy. I had access to a threader. Took my time, used Rector Seal No. 5 and no leaks.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Dan, it really isn't necessary to take the whole thing apart. Cut near where the new drop (or whatever is to be added) will go with a hacksaw/sawsall, remove the ends. Now shorten*, rethread ends, add your tee drop, a union and reassemble.

* Those familiar with running pipe will measure, make the cuts, thread the pipe and assemble without disturbing the rest of the piping system. It seems like magic to me but I've seen it done time and again so I know it is quite possible.

I used copper** for my air lines but I have a buddy that could make that change to black iron so quick it would give you pause as to which is easier to modify. I'd say other factors to consider in installing a air piping system would be a persons expertise and comfort level with the particular material he decides to run - assuming it meets the job requirements to start with.

** The way I installed my air lines, fwiw.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ers#post116465
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

God pics/good work/good info. I'll have to rethink the possibility of Cu - it sems lighter and may be more simple for me to install as I have some sweating acuity. Thanks

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

I'm looking at this as well. I'm torn between copper and aluminum. I have a couple weeks to decide because I'm still in the process of finishing my garage. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. I plan on mounting 1 hose reel right by the compressor and then piping over to the middle of the garage across the ceiling and mount another hose reel. I shouldn't need more than 20' of pipe and a few fittings. I've ran copper before so it wouldn't be a problem. How do you connect the aluminum?

I also have some time yet - as I haven't even taken delivery of my Quincy cmp.

As I understand it- the Al connects via special oem compression-appearing type connectors.

The cost differences among Cu/Al/Iron Pipe are not onerous for my app - so, ease of installation will weigh heavy in my decision. However, I believe I have ruled out the plastic pipe

 

[jshillin]

That is what I was quoted by a local Prevost Distributor.

1 STICK OF 20MM PIPE IS 49.94 (THIS IS 19'9" LONG)
1 T IS 13.14
1 90* IS 9.47
1 20MM TO 3/4" PIPE THREAD FITTING IS 26.34

 

[mad57]

I also have some time yet but im going with copper when ready, the only diffrence i see is if your line drops are in an area where they can get hit or crushed go with pipe but if they will be protected go with copper, and yes here in nj black iron pipe is more money than the copper. enough bickering on this subject both work just as well as the other. were all brothers here right?

 

[e-tek]

I also have some time yet but im going with copper when ready, the only diffrence i see is if your line drops are in an area where they can get hit or crushed go with pipe but if they will be protected go with copper, and yes here in nj black iron pipe is more money than the copper. enough bickering on this subject both work just as well as the other. were all brothers here right?

But's it's so much fun to ride 'bro' once in a while!!!

Of course I was kidding - at least we have two options - nearly the same in pros and cons. I used Black Pipe but would use Copper - like I said, both are good for different reasons.

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

I thought this info was a good read about why you shouldn't use PVC pipe:

http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

It was a link from the site in post 6...

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

This seems to be the latest in air pipe.I have been seeing a big push on it.



http://www.garage-pak.com/

I like the looks of that stuff. I'm going to look at getting that for my garage...

 

[Torque1st]

That plastic stuff is garbage. If you are going to put in an air distribution system do it right with either iron or copper pipe.

That PVC info has been posted here and other places a few hundred times maybe even thousands of times. Still we get people coming in and extolling the virtues of PVC or plastic pipe.

 

[Mike in Ohio]

That plastic stuff is garbage. If you are going to put in an air distribution system do it right with either iron or copper pipe.

That PVC info has been posted here and other places a few hundred times maybe even thousands of times. Still we get people coming in and extolling the virtues of PVC or plastic pipe.

Probably can't be on here and other places too often. Just looking at the pressure ratings with no other knowledge the pvc seemed like a good idea. I came across all this other info before I did it though and probably saved myself alot of problems at least and maybe avoided a major injury at worst. I don't know which I will use yet, as I haven't figured the cost both ways yet. thanks for all the info you guys share. Mike

 

[G-force]

I think the best option, and the one I used is to use copper piping and to use the sharkbite fittings at any junction you may want to add to or modify later, since they can be disconnected and reconnected with relative ease. I am sweating about 50 percent of my joints and using sharkbite on the other 50%. while not the cheapest method, I think it gives the best strength and versatility.

 

[Torque1st]

Probably can't be on here and other places too often. Just looking at the pressure ratings with no other knowledge the pvc seemed like a good idea. I came across all this other info before I did it though and probably saved myself alot of problems at least and maybe avoided a major injury at worst. I don't know which I will use yet, as I haven't figured the cost both ways yet. thanks for all the info you guys share. Mike

I used to have that PVC info in my sig and I have over 30,000 posts in forums. Even that didn't do any good so I removed it.

 

[akdiesel]

Lots of talk about using black pipe, coppr tubing, and pvc for the air lines. No one has mentioned stainless tubning.
I have 3/4" running through out my shop for my main line. About 100' that is split in the middle with the compressor and a second knock out pot.
Stainless is more expensive but I get a very good deal on it. But also the pressure rating versus weight beats anything out there and the ease of installation makes future installs even easier than copper or iron pipe.
Plus this stuff will outlast my life and my kids.

 

[Torque1st]

I have used a lot of stainless for compressed gas, usually somewhat exotic and high to very low pressure in the lab with Swagelock and Varian fittings but I could not afford to run it in my shop.

 

[mmg440]

Lots of talk about using black pipe, coppr tubing, and pvc for the air lines. No one has mentioned stainless tubning.
I have 3/4" running through out my shop for my main line. About 100' that is split in the middle with the compressor and a second knock out pot.
Stainless is more expensive but I get a very good deal on it. But also the pressure rating versus weight beats anything out there and the ease of installation makes future installs even easier than copper or iron pipe.
Plus this stuff will outlast my life and my kids.

I think Stainless is just to pricey for most Home shops let alone most industrial applications for standard compressed air for air tools, painting and pneumatics. If you have a source that makes it affordable then that's great. Out of reach for most. As a material for it I am sure it will last indefinitely and heat transfer I think would be close to black pipe probably not as good as copper but in any case good. I think even without considering price I think it's overkill. Just some of my thoughts on the subject of stainless for air lines.

 

[rinny_tin_tin]

Lots of talk about using black pipe, coppr tubing, and pvc for the air lines. No one has mentioned stainless tubning.
I have 3/4" running through out my shop for my main line. About 100' that is split in the middle with the compressor and a second knock out pot.
Stainless is more expensive but I get a very good deal on it. But also the pressure rating versus weight beats anything out there and the ease of installation makes future installs even easier than copper or iron pipe.
Plus this stuff will outlast my life and my kids.

I thought about it - in fact, when thinking piping for air or control air, the first thought that comes to my head is stainless...however, since it didn't come up here by anyone else, I didn't want to stand out (or hang out) But how much more is stainless on the commercial market? If its only a little bit more, considering fittings and all, then I would probably use it.

 

[PAToyota]

No one has mentioned stainless tubing.

[snip]

Stainless is more expensive but I get a very good deal on it.

I knew a guy in a similar position - he did all the water plumbing in his house in TIG welded stainless...

 

[mad57]

its all good.

But's it's so much fun to ride 'bro' once in a while!!!

Of course I was kidding - at least we have two options - nearly the same in pros and cons. I used Black Pipe but would use Copper - like I said, both are good for different reasons.

 

[Torque Wrench]

Ok - I ordered my 60 gal Quincy etc and now I'm getting set to install air distr sys. I have seen the good diagrams etc from various sources - but, the more I look, the more questions I have as to what type of pipe to run. There were some negative comments for black iron pipe - what I was getting set to run, and I think I know the the issues with copper and not to run pvc, etc but now I see some manufacturers offering aluminum piping. I'm sure this has been done before in GJ (I wish they had an indexing system for select good threads) but what is the skinny and general consensus amongst you GJers?


Cheers

Look into Prevost Aluminum piping this product has held up for years for my shop. http://www.prevostusa.com

 

[Torque1st]

All Torque Wrench ever does is come here and post his ad for Prevost piping. He probably sells the stuff.

If you don't believe me look at ALL of his other 6 posts.

 

[krooser]

I put my air system in (black pipe) and only threaded one pipe... I wasn't real **** where the drop went...I put 'em every ten feet or so. Black pipe is the best when it comes to condensing moisture in the system to allow you to drain or filter it out.

 

[akdiesel]

I thought about it - in fact, when thinking piping for air or control air, the first thought that comes to my head is stainless...however, since it didn't come up here by anyone else, I didn't want to stand out (or hang out) But how much more is stainless on the commercial market? If its only a little bit more, considering fittings and all, then I would probably use it.

Before discount price for .035 3/4" was approx $6.00 a foot. This is in Alaska so it may as well be ceaper down in the 48's. For w2hat ever reason th .035 1/2" is more than the 3/4". The fittings are where it can get rediculous. But Ebay has a lot to choose from.
Yes, I agree it is not for everyone but I work with Swagelok a lot in my profession and I know its capabilities so I feel more comfortable with it than other options.

 

[Steve in Mi]

I will add a comment about using stainless. While it has some real fine qualities (for sure) it does have a much higher coeificent of thermal expansion than iron so one has to keep that in mind when anchoring it or confining it between iron objects. It is slower than iron to conduct heat too. Some conditions that could cause concern - ice cold metal frame shop and hot compressed air moving thru long air lines attached to the metal frame. With different rates of linear expansion, something has to give. It can be calculated and planned for.