Pulling 2 #8s and 2 #10s in 1/2 EMT

[600SL]

After pulling 4 #12s through 50' of 1/2" EMT and realizing I may want to upgrade my compressor at a later date, I would like to consider pulling 2 #8's and 1#10 ground as well as 1#10 neutral. The 4 #12s were difficult enough without lube. I know I don't need the ground but I do prefer to have one. According to fill tables this will work. Some questions?

1) Better to use all stranded wire for this?

2) Better to remove the 4 #12s and start from scratch with a pull wire or splice to each of the #12s with 6" staggered splices and pull

3) Will the use of lube make this a piece of cake?

 

[joel63]

After pulling 4 #12s through 50' of 1/2" EMT and realizing I may want to upgrade my compressor at a later date, I would like to consider pulling 2 #8's and 1#10 ground as well as 1#10 neutral. The 4 #12s were difficult enough without lube. I know I don't need the ground but I do prefer to have one. According to fill tables this will work. Some questions?

1) Better to use all stranded wire for this?

2) Better to remove the 4 #12s and start from scratch with a pull wire or splice to each of the #12s with 6" staggered splices and pull

3) Will the use of lube make this a piece of cake?

Just something to consider: 3/4 EMT?

 

[PelicanPines]

Just something to consider: 3/4 EMT?

Start over with an empty 1/2 EMT or run a 2nd pipe 3/4 for the new wires. I know the tables say so many wires etc etc.. but I never seem to easily get that many in or add more than 2 conductors in a pipe already pulled/installed. I always run wire with an extra pull line included and always with a ground.

Just my humble opinion... I hate doing hard work when it's so much easier to do it easy.

 

[pattenp]

Are you talking about adding the #8's and 10's in with the #12's in 1/2" EMT? The two #8's and two #10's by themselves are at the limit and may be over the limit for 1/2" EMT.

 

[alfredeneuman]

1) The #8 will be stranded, the only #8 solid produced is bare wire used for grounding and bonding. Get #10 stranded. Why did you want to run a #10 neutral for anyways?

2) I'd suggest pulling all the #12s out except 1, and using that for a pull wire. Stagger the 8s and 10s.

3) Not guaranteeing it will be a piece of cake, but it will make the job a helluva lot easier than if you didn't have it in the first place.

 

[raddksn]

1) The #8 will be stranded, the only #8 solid produced is bare wire used for grounding and bonding. Get #10 stranded. Why did you want to run a #10 neutral for anyways?

2) I'd suggest pulling all the #12s out except 1, and using that for a pull wire. Stagger the 8s and 10s.

3) Not guaranteeing it will be a piece of cake, but it will make the job a helluva lot easier than if you didn't have it in the first place.

4) don't let the wires cross one another when feeding into conduit!

 

[Stuff]

How many elbows in that 50' run?

It's a tight fit so would use the existing to pull as I've had pull string snap.

 

[Zeke]

Not only will the conduit be overfilled, it just won't work. You can't use # 10 as a neutral and # 8 as the hots. Only the ground can be undersized and by one size if I know right. One chart I looked at didn't even list 8's and another listed 3 max in 1/2".

AFAIK, the NEC allows the conduit itself to serve as the equipment ground connector as long as all the bonding requirements are met. I may be misreading this. If that is true, that would be your solution but you better look that up and not take it from me.

 

[600SL]

Are you talking about adding the #8's and 10's in with the #12's in 1/2" EMT? The two #8's and two #10's by themselves are at the limit and may be over the limit for 1/2" EMT.

Operation will involve removing all 4 #12s and replacing with 2 #8 and 2#10. Yes its at the limit.

 

[600SL]

Not only will the conduit be overfilled, it just won't work. You can't use # 10 as a neutral and # 8 as the hots. Only the ground can be undersized and by one size if I know right. One chart I looked at didn't even list 8's and another listed 3 max in 1/2".

AFAIK, the NEC allows the conduit itself to serve as the equipment ground connector as long as all the bonding requirements are met. I may be misreading this. If that is true, that would be your solution but you better look that up and not take it from me.

My understanding is that I can use #10 or even #12 or #14 in this case since the neutral will only be carrying low current imbalanced loads for a remote compressor relay coil. (Yes/No)?

Removing the ground is an option since meets EMT installation meets those requirement's. But I personally prefer a ground wire.

 

[600SL]

How many elbows in that 50' run?

It's a tight fit so would use the existing to pull as I've had pull string snap.

There are 4 90° and 1 45°.

I'm actually considering twisting the wires at about 1 twist per ft to avoid a jamb.

 

[600SL]

4) don't let the wires cross one another when feeding into conduit!

Plan is a uniform twist at about 1 twist per foot. That should avoid all the pileup theory I have read about.

 

[600SL]

Just something to consider: 3/4 EMT?

That would be the preferred option if I didn't have to pull down 2 1000# overhead doors to replace the conduit.

 

[Premium08]

Replace a 90 with a condulet

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[Stuff]

Replace a 90 with a condulet

Good approach. When you are that tight even two 90s on a long run can be a difficult pull.

 

[alfredeneuman]

This will work with any size of stranded wire.

First bend a loop in the pull wire and twist it around itself leaving the loop intact.

The strip the first #8 about 8" and remove the outer strands, leaving about 4 or 5 strands
Bend the strands tightly through the loop, leaving 2 to wrap around the bundle.

Repeat, except put all the remaining strands through the loop.

The amount you need to strip naturally will increase as you stagger them.

Take a pair of pliers and squeeze the bundle to it's minimum size.

Use the strands you left out in the 2nd step, and wrap the strands tightly around the bundle, close to the loop. This is done to prevent the wires from pulling out of the pull loop

Tape all the way from before the pulling loop to well behind the bundle, tapering it as best as you can.

Pull it!

 

[600SL]

Replace a 90 with a condulet

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I have a similar option. The last two bends the 90° and the 45° are right at the CB box and is an easily removable 4' section that I could remove if I were to get stuck. That would essentially leave it as a 3 90° pull. It is also why I will be pulling from the CB box.

 

[Mustang51js]

There are 4 90° and 1 45°.

I'm actually considering twisting the wires at about 1 twist per ft to avoid a jamb.

After 4 90s you are over the bend limit also. I don't even use 1/2 pipe anymore because it's a pain to pull wires through after 2 elbows. At least throw in a couple pull boxes to make it easier

 

[Aceman]

Simply put, the way you ran that conduit and the wire you want to pull in it is the wrong way to go about it.

Run a second conduit or replace it with a bigger conduit and put some sort of a pull point in it, j-box, c, etc because you're over 360 degrees of bends.

 

[600SL]

This will work with any size of stranded wire.

First bend a loop in the pull wire and twist it around itself leaving the loop intact.

The strip the first #8 about 8" and remove the outer strands, leaving about 4 or 5 strands
Bend the strands tightly through the loop, leaving 2 to wrap around the bundle.

Repeat, except put all the remaining strands through the loop.

The amount you need to strip naturally will increase as you stagger them.

Take a pair of pliers and squeeze the bundle to it's minimum size.

Use the strands you left out in the 2nd step, and wrap the strands tightly around the bundle, close to the loop. This is done to prevent the wires from pulling out of the pull loop

Tape all the way from before the pulling loop to well behind the bundle, tapering it as best as you can.

Pull it!

That's the way I do it but I usually strip about 2 ft of the first wire 1.5ft of the next and so on so that I get all the splices in the bare wire section. Having all the insulation clear for this section is reduces the overall cross section in this area.

 

[600SL]

After 4 90s you are over the bend limit also. I don't even use 1/2 pipe anymore because it's a pain to pull wires through after 2 elbows. At least throw in a couple pull boxes to make it easier

Yeah I was worried the inspector would get me on that. But he didn't count and now he's gone. I don't think I will be using 1/2" anymore either, there really is no reason to use it as the cost difference is very negligible. I didn't think the 4 #12s would be so difficult considering you are allowed 7 but I didn't use any lube either.

 

[kiatech]

Only thing 1/2" is good for is bottle rockets.

 

[600SL]

Only thing 1/2" is good for is bottle rockets.

 

[Evan(CA)]

After pulling 4 #12s through 50' of 1/2" EMT and realizing I may want to upgrade my compressor at a later date, I would like to consider pulling 2 #8's and 1#10 ground as well as 1#10 neutral. The 4 #12s were difficult enough without lube. I know I don't need the ground but I do prefer to have one. According to fill tables this will work. Some questions?

1) Better to use all stranded wire for this?

2) Better to remove the 4 #12s and start from scratch with a pull wire or splice to each of the #12s with 6" staggered splices and pull

3) Will the use of lube make this a piece of cake?

There is zero reason to spend any time or money on this at this point since everything is already installed, inspected, and working with your current set up. Wait until you actually have the new compressor and pull what you need then. What happens when you find a "you ****" deal on a 60a compressor and all this work you want to do the hard way is useless?

 

[jrsulo]

Only thing 1/2" is good for is bottle rockets.

Good thinking !!!!!!!!!

 

[600SL]

There is zero reason to spend any time or money on this at this point since everything is already installed, inspected, and working with your current set up. Wait until you actually have the new compressor and pull what you need then. What happens when you find a "you ****" deal on a 60a compressor and all this work you want to do the hard way is useless?

Not exactly zero reason. Because I have my compressor in an out door shack it will require an exhaust fan which between the compressor and fan will exceed the limits of the 12 gage wire. So its either pull 4 10s now or pull for the future. The 3.7 hp compressor I have was good for my 750 sq shop but since my shop is now 1400 sq ft and I have room for a blast cabinet a future upgrade is very likely.