whould you accept these trusses??

[hoho98925]

So i got my trusses for my shop all set , and noticed as i was about to install the sub-barge that the trusses all have a dip in them of about 1/2-5/8 of an inch all in the same spot. it does not sound like much but it is very noticeable from the road side of the building. from the ground it looks like an inch. So i string lined the upper part of along side the truss to the tail and this is what that looks like

that is following the plane of the upper part of the truss to the splice where it is low. This is typical on all trusses

so stringing the top of the truss from peak to gable shows 1/2- 5/8" at the splice on all trusses. with a 10' long straight edge there is 3/8 to 1/2 low in TEN feet.

I paid 12,000.00 for trusses that are not built straight. to further aggravate the situation pics of bottom cord

string is from plate to plate.

truss manufacture first offered me 500.00 then they are now saying its only cosmetic, and are not going to do anything... what a load of ****... tell me what you think or what would you do.

 

[RVDan]

It is only cosmetic. It's your call if you want perfection or not.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

You should have taken the 500 when they offered it, and said thank you.

I'd keep building. You most likely won't have to do anything to put up the roof sheathing, and will have to do a very minimal amount to hang rock. Your eye cannot see that kind of deflection on a ceiling as long as you shim out wave action.

Are they structural ? You know they are. You would have to hand pick an entire bundle of long 2x12s to find a set that was straighter than that, and that would usually be less than half of the bundle. Good carpenters will compensate as needed.

Most won't even check them.

 

[coljar]

You should have taken the 500 when they offered it, and said thank you.

I'd keep building. You most likely won't have to do anything to put up the roof sheathing, and will have to do a very minimal amount to hang rock. Your eye cannot see that kind of deflection on a ceiling as long as you shim out wave action.

Are they structural ? You know they are. You would have to hand pick an entire bundle of long 2x12s to find a set that was straighter than that, and that would usually be less than half of the bundle. Good carpenters will compensate as needed.

Most won't even check them.

^^^^^^This

 

[ez-duzit]

...Good carpenters will compensate as needed...

This. Shim where required.

 

[PelicanPines]

You should have taken the 500 when they offered it, and said thank you.

I'd keep building. You most likely won't have to do anything to put up the roof sheathing, and will have to do a very minimal amount to hang rock. Your eye cannot see that kind of deflection on a ceiling as long as you shim out wave action.

Are they structural ? You know they are. You would have to hand pick an entire bundle of long 2x12s to find a set that was straighter than that, and that would usually be less than half of the bundle. Good carpenters will compensate as needed.

Most won't even check them.

Agree....

 

[Kevin54]

Lumber....I hate it

Being a Tool & Die Maker, I'm used to working in decimal places of .0001. When I work with lumber, I get totally aggravated because wood is so much different to work with. I have worked with some really SUPER carpenters. A half inch, to an inch, depending on what is being framed......Close enough

Once everything is covered up, wood on the top, drywall on the bottom, knock this over here, tap that over there......it all works out in the end. I've been through $500,000+ homes when they were being framed up, and you can see where things are off, but afterwards, when things are finished, things look fantastic.

If it were me, I wouldn't worry too much about it. 5/8" from down on the ground looking up to the roof, you won't notice it.

 

[Tweeker]

"It's not a piano" was popular phrase on our framing jobs.

Your interior walls are FAR from flat but nobody ever notices.

 

[Blazin8556]

It's wood. Not steel.

 

[Travinsky]

Looks like my attic

As a former engineer in a past life, I know where you are coming from, I have seen a lot worse

 

[69gp]

I think your safe with the deflection that you have. Its what happens under load.

check this article out and you might feel a little at ease.

http://forums.finehomebuilding.com/breaktime/general-discussion/deflection-ratio-explanation

 

[amac70]

"It's not a piano" was popular phrase on our framing jobs.

Your interior walls are FAR from flat but nobody ever notices.

this has been said on many occasions by many framers. I framed custom homes for years. there is always something that needs a little a massage.

 

[A_Pmech]

Respectfully, you're nitpicking.

 

[ArkTinkerer]

Actually, it looks like they took some care if the deflections are all in the same direction!

 

[Playwme]

Actually, it looks like they took some care if the deflections are all in the same direction!

Agree. Wood changes, you need to spend an absolute fortune to get it to remain perfect. Not worth it for framing.

 

[rslaback]

Those sure are funny looking kitchen cabinets.

 

[JakeKohl]

That's not a problem - you won't get perfection out of lumber. By the time shingles are on, nobody will be able to find it (probably not even you)...and hey, at least they seem to be consistent!

 

[PT Doc]

I would think that since they have been installed you have no choice but to keep them. What are industry standards for acceptable deviations from perfect in this type of product? Without that info, you have no argument. Either they are in or out of spec. Simple. Take the $500 and thank them.

 

[Majordisorder]

Without seeing your engineering specs, I would say the built in camber is intentional. Thats the way trusses work. Since they offered 500, try for 750.00 but don't waste your time suing them. After the roof is built, the bottom cord will sag a little, the top chords will be pushed up a little, and you wont be able to prove anything is wrong.

The camber always creates finishing problems when sheetrock transitions from the field to a gable wall, and when the bottom chord doesn't hit interior walls, but nothing that mud and tape won't take care of.

 

[12ozd]

Sad, only 2 options are do nothing or sue.

 

[Orange65]

Looks like normal lumber under a load. Two things already mentioned- trying to find absolutely straight lumber is a time consuming project if it is possible at all. The truss manufacturer probably has guidelines for their lumber, but they don't check every piece of lumber used. Secondly, all materials deflect under force- just sitting there, gravity is going to make the trusses deflect. If you wanted perfectly straight, you should have used steel. But then again, it too would deflect as well under its own weight.

Not much you can do about it. Even replacements will look about the same.

IMO- that is part of a problem with this web site. So many folks here want and expect perfect- laser straight that will last to the end of time. But in reality, they may have been sold the illusion that that is what they got, but it isn't. Any building- if you look hard enough, you will find imperfections. Some advice given on this website breeds the illusion that perfection is available if you spend enough $$. AND that even though you went with the lowest bidder, they should supply just that. And if you are not satisfied, sue.

And yes, I know the counterpoint of "there are fly by night builders who live to screw you over". Rant over.

Anyway- they are fine and will look and work fine after the building is done. Don't worry about it.

 

[hoho98925]

Let me clarify a few things. Theses are not wrong due to variations in lumber. When they set up there jig, they were off at this point, by their own admission this is a manufacturing mistake. They did not do this as "camber".

I called the Industry truss associations, Truss Plate Institute, and the SCBA, both associations that set standards for truss fabricators. Both associations told me that they have both been involved in fixing trusses with half this amount of dip.

So as far as being just cosmetic, ok it's just cosmetic, it is visible from the street, people will notice it. Ever hear of curb appeal, so if I go to sell in the future and a potential buyer wants to make an offer, but then sees it, what do you suppose that does to my value? Do they the question the structure of the roof, is that what I pay full premium price for, do you?

Suppose I decide to put a metal roof on this building, with the snow load here if the screws don't crease the metal in this area, the snow will.

1/2" out in ten feet is out of spec for all most all industry standards.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I have run metal roofs on old barns. 200 YO barns. I will run purlins over the trusses and even so, I won't take out all of the bow, because people like old things to look old. Believe me when I tell you that you can install ANY metal roof over a 1/2 inch bow, which BTW, you can easily take out with your purlins.

Maybe your situation is somewhat regrettable, but we were not the ones who went ahead and installed all of those. There are ways of dealing with what you have there, and it would take you very little time to deal with the problem as opposed to spending time talking about it, even if you used furring to level out the whole ceiling, which you may not need to do.

You figure out what you need to do, and then do it. But I work with a lot of engineers and OCD guys who have to have everything just so, and they still don't always get as good a result as they could, even with all the delays and insistence that everything be ''right''. Personally, I am not a perfection guy, I am solution oriented. I get paid to fix other peoples problems.

There are a lot of ways to make cookies. Most of them taste good when they are done.

 

[A_Pmech]

You're way, way, way overboard. You're paying your contractor to build a house. Let him build it before you piss him off and he walks off the job for inane BS. He knows a lot more about the job than you do.

Besides, that truss is going to deflect DOWN around 1/ 180th of span (1.3") when the roof goes on and it has a snow load. That's three times the distance you're worrying about right now.

It's standard practice to pre-camber manufactured trusses. To learn about trusses, see here:

www.mii.com/artefact/download.asp?aid=27341

 

[ADSR]

I would hate to let that slide on my jobsite. That's going to look like **** in the finished product.

BUT, they're already up. It's a tough call i'm glad i don't have to make.

 

[officer]

You will be fine......chill out and let your contractor do his job,as others have said don't piss him off yet.

 

[Kevin54]

Let me clarify a few things. Theses are not wrong due to variations in lumber. When they set up there jig, they were off at this point, by their own admission this is a manufacturing mistake. They did not do this as "camber".

I called the Industry truss associations, Truss Plate Institute, and the SCBA, both associations that set standards for truss fabricators. Both associations told me that they have both been involved in fixing trusses with half this amount of dip.

So as far as being just cosmetic, ok it's just cosmetic, it is visible from the street, people will notice it. Ever hear of curb appeal, so if I go to sell in the future and a potential buyer wants to make an offer, but then sees it, what do you suppose that does to my value? Do they the question the structure of the roof, is that what I pay full premium price for, do you?

Suppose I decide to put a metal roof on this building, with the snow load here if the screws don't crease the metal in this area, the snow will.

1/2" out in ten feet is out of spec for all most all industry standards.

I guarantee you that "potential buyers" will not notice 5/8" out.

The house is in the framing stage at the moment, and you are nitpicking over something like that? If you want to sue, or if you keep bringing things up like that, the contractor will do less than what you expect for sure.


I have a good friend that nitpicked his house so much, that the contractor said to hell with it. He bought it back just to shut him up. He wanted the grass seed shot on the lawn that has the fertilizer on it. It was done in the Spring, but there were a few bare spots by Summer. Off to Court they went. Every single person he came in contact with while the house was being built, he wanted to sue. He went totally ballistic when his parents paid to have marble installed on the floor at the entry way, and the drywall guy just happened to step off of the cardboard that was laid down to walk on.

Chill, and let the contractor do his work, and if things are not satisfactory after the house is done, then talk with him about it. But I guarantee....you piss him off now, you will have all sort of problems down the road.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I would hate to let that slide on my jobsite. That's going to look like **** in the finished product.

BUT, they're already up. It's a tough call i'm glad i don't have to make.

What is your spec. at which you send things back?

 

[mjozefow]

Those are fine. Shim as needed.

Side note: Don't buy an old house. The very idea of interchangeable, identical parts wasn't even an option. Some of the most beautiful historical homes I have toured are not straight, and they have been that way since new.

 

[2drx4]

I guarantee you that "potential buyers" will not notice 5/8" out.

The roof on my house is about 6" out... Most people don't notice it.

 

[ADSR]

What is your spec. at which you send things back?

LOL depends how picky the customer is. But we like to work within 1/8 on custom houses of 800,000+

3/8 to 1/2 on any build under 500,000 is close enough for me. If something is out, i blame it on the wall boarders

 

[carcajou]

Interesting thread. If the crown is up on all the trusses, that's good. If any of the trusses are different than the others by more than a 1/2" i would replace it but that's me.

 

[jhasafety1]

Todays lumber is ****. any experienced carpenter knows crown up, every board has a crowned side. When I added onto my house I used trusses on 1/2 and framed the other half. On both sides I had to shim my purlins due to variances in the height of the crown on the lumber. Its another whole topic to discussion but our good lumber goes overseas for high dollar and we get the junk.

 

[keelan]

hoho98925,

There is no way 5/8" will be visible from the street, at all. You can see it because you're comparing naked trusses. Throw some plywood and drywall on there, and the difference will disappear. You're obsessing and need to step back into reality.

Go to a building (any building), grab a tape measure, and measure things. Rooms will be slightly taller at one end than the other, wider at one end, ceilings will be higher or lower in the middle. Even in new construction. Measure in different seasons, wood is a very dynamic material. I can guarantee that if you measure the perimeter of this new building, it will be at least a couple inches out from what the drawing tells you it should be. The reality is that what is built (in every case; from precision machined swiss watches to mud huts) is always an approximation of what is on the drawing.

Go buy your truss guy a beer, and bring one for yourself. You need to relax.

 

[monomach]

tell me what you think or what would you do.

I would apologize to the manufacturer for complaining about that.

 

[awdblazer]

A good trussmaker would not let that happen
I use to build trusses and never had that happen to me
it all depends on where they put their jigs, by the looks of it they jigged it incorrectly

 

[rieferman]

Let me clarify a few things. Theses are not wrong due to variations in lumber. When they set up there jig, they were off at this point, by their own admission this is a manufacturing mistake. They did not do this as "camber".

I called the Industry truss associations, Truss Plate Institute, and the SCBA, both associations that set standards for truss fabricators. Both associations told me that they have both been involved in fixing trusses with half this amount of dip.

So as far as being just cosmetic, ok it's just cosmetic, it is visible from the street, people will notice it. Ever hear of curb appeal, so if I go to sell in the future and a potential buyer wants to make an offer, but then sees it, what do you suppose that does to my value? Do they the question the structure of the roof, is that what I pay full premium price for, do you?

Suppose I decide to put a metal roof on this building, with the snow load here if the screws don't crease the metal in this area, the snow will.

1/2" out in ten feet is out of spec for all most all industry standards.

While I agree with the posts stating that this situation is easily salvaged, and that the finished product will not show the imperfection that you were able to pinpoint with a string line, it sounds to me like you've made up your mind already. My only suggestion is to be tactful in how you approach seeking the resolution that will make you happy - you can either be a partner with the builder or an opponent. In the latter case, you will lose any loyalty and "go above and beyond" qualities that he may have. Not all construction issues can be found with a ball of twine.

 

[paredown]

Probably flogging a dead horse here, but since they are nailed up, I would take the $500, or see if they would go a little higher. Taking them down will be a PITA, and who knows what else could move or get damaged while you are fighting to get them off.

If the interior ceilings look like they are going to be a big problem plane the proud ones and shim the others. From the outside, I doubt anyone will be able to see that amount of deflection, regardless of materials.

But I know OCD--a friend years ago looked at premanufacured trusses and didn't like the quality--and decided to make his own (small house addition). Well, this took some time--and the trusses were purchased when his wife had a tarp shift and dump a load of snow on her when she was in the bathtub!

 

[Hephaestus29]

I wouldn't be happy with it, & after having my first garage built I may buy a steel building next time.

 

[carryallman]

if your not happy NOW ! you will never be happy !! get the bad ones ripped out and hauled back to manufacturer ! make them do some new correct ones !! sure it will screw up there manufacture build dates ? BUT WHO CARES ? you will be happy ? RIGHT ???? good luck and let us know !! REMEMBER THE CUSTOMER COMES FIRST AND IS ALWAYS RIGHT !!