overlay asphalt driveway

[greenbikemike]

I need some pros and cons.....

I need to raise my driveway about 4" anyway and would like to just overlay it with asphalt.I live in Minnesota,-20 to 100+ so,yup,I do know concrete would be the best,but the old wallet only has so much and with working on old harleys that "mark their territory"[panheads are disigned to leak] I would like stay with asphalt.If it lasts 10 or more years,I'd be happy.....
I own a bobcat and have tore out thousands of tons of asphalt and concrete,so I could tear it all out and start from scatch,but would rather save some $$$,
what do you think?
thanks,
Greenbikemike

 

[TommyK]

I need some pros and cons.....

I need to raise my driveway about 4" anyway and would like to just overlay it with asphalt.I live in Minnesota,-20 to 100+ so,yup,I do know concrete would be the best,but the old wallet only has so much and with working on old harleys that "mark their territory"[panheads are disigned to leak] I would like stay with asphalt.If it lasts 10 or more years,I'd be happy.....
I own a bobcat and have tore out thousands of tons of asphalt and concrete,so I could tear it all out and start from scatch,but would rather save some $$$,
what do you think?
thanks,
Greenbikemike

It depends on the condition of the existing asphalt. If it is in reasonable condition you could repair/seal any cracks, tack it and overlay it. I would recommend doing it in two lifts if you need to fill 4 inches.

If it shows signs of base failure, drainage issues or is severely cracked you would be better off ripping it out, fixing the issues with the base material, regrading it to the desired elevation and putting down at least 2 inches of new asphalt.

Since asphalt is the most costly component of any paving job, and you are capable of doing the demo and regrading yourself, you would have to do a cost analysis to see which scope of work would actually be cheaper. It's obvious which one would be faster and "easier".

 

[Bondo]

I need to raise my driveway about 4" anyway and would like to just overlay it with asphalt.

Ayuh,.... Stone is Alot cheaper than blacktop,...

You'll probably be better off to rip out what's there, 'n raise/ correct the grades with stone, Then pave it,...

 

[greenbikemike]

Thanks for the replies,
the driveway is in pretty good shape,a couple of cracks,but nothing big and I have sealed it and did crack repair as needed over the years.I just figure that I have a good base now and adding 3-4 " of asphalt would work, was hoping someone has done this and had good results and would post up.
thanks again,
Greenbikemike

 

[Matt The Hammer]

Size and frequency of cracks are your biggest worry. If you see a patch of cracks like a spiderweb, that area under the old asphalt has issues and will 'reflect' through to your new stuff. If you just have regular cracking... sealing well before an overlay will be your best bet. A good contractor will help with guidance about doing an overlay. They won't want their new stuff falling apart in a year either.

Oil and especially gasoline kills asphalt fast. Thus why gas stations use Portland concrete around their pumps. You're not a gas station, so the frequency of these types of spills is a fraction of theirs. Just be mindful of what leaks (use a drip pan if you can) and your asphalt will last that much longer.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

Here's more recent overlay work I did:

I'm a project manager for PennDOT in Philly.

Just make sure your contractor is decent. Their material used is good (hot enough and not trucked too far). Also, ensure that they are rolling the asphalt properly in order to attain proper density. Less than good contractors use any means possible to save money. Yes, it's just a driveway - but it your driveway.

 

[Garage Dog]

I have asphalt driveway issues as well and talked to an asphalt company at a trade show. He basically said that overlaying the "gator back" cracking I have in places was asking for trouble.

One of his alternatives was to grind the existing asphalt and use it as the primary base material for the new asphalt. Haven't had them out yet.

Any one know what it costs to grind asphalt and leave it in place as base material?

I have about 20,000 square feet.

 

[Thorold]

Would it help if it was curbed also ? In my mind the biggest problem with asphalt is that it migrates and that's what causes most cracks / failures.

 

[volleyball]

Do you need to raise it 4" over the entire surface? Putting pitch on a driveway helps extends its life.

 

[greenbikemike]

Thanks for the replies guys,
as for any cracking,it is not "spider webed",just a couple of cracks that I've used crack filler on and they don't seem to be getting any worse. As for the pitch and raising it 4",the pitch will be fine....about 1" in 10'.....
I've had 3 contractors out here and none of them will do an overlay,they want to do the tear out and new base and start fresh....they say nobody does overlays,it doesn't work,I point out that they overlayed my street twice in 25 years and it gets alot more traffic.....guess I'll keep looking....
thanks again,
Greenbikemike

 

[Matt The Hammer]

Would it help if it was curbed also ? In my mind the biggest problem with asphalt is that it migrates and that's what causes most cracks / failures.

Sure it helps. It's 'flexible pavement'. Typically the paving is sloped on the edge. Keeps it pushed together. Most 'edge cracking' stays local to the edge though. Like on concrete slabs, etc.

We occasionally have a significant drop off at the edge of the asphalt paving in temporary conditions. But we have to protect the motorists from hitting that drop off by use of a barrier or space behind cones.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

Thanks for the replies guys,
as for any cracking,it is not "spider webed",just a couple of cracks that I've used crack filler on and they don't seem to be getting any worse. As for the pitch and raising it 4",the pitch will be fine....about 1" in 10'.....
I've had 3 contractors out here and none of them will do an overlay,they want to do the tear out and new base and start fresh....they say nobody does overlays,it doesn't work,I point out that they overlayed my street twice in 25 years and it gets alot more traffic.....guess I'll keep looking....
thanks again,
Greenbikemike

4" overlay is kinda thick. But its fine in my opinion for a driveway.

Forgot to post yesterday that on my current project the contractor bid $8 per square yard for milling of asphalt. But that number was for milling, removal, and disposal of the millings too. Also, we have a lot more volume than your driveway has. I think you're around 2200SY, so whats's that? $18k using our number?

Overlay away!

 

[greenbikemike]

Well,a little follow up on this,had it overlayed yesterday,42A asphalt,it looked a little low to me by the street,I didn't want any "duck ponds",but they said it would be fine and if there was a problem,they'd fix it.Got the job done around 10:30 a.m. rained a little around 3:00p.m. and I saw some puddles when I got home.I called the guy and took some piccs. he said he'd fix it. Well it rained like hell around 6:00p.m. this is what I got.Hope he s good on his word,I'll give him a chance,I've been burned,but still believe in a man's word.....I'm a little worried about how he'll fix this,if he just wants to patch it,I know that won't last and if he cuts it out,I end up with a seam.I was hoping to cross this off my long list of projects.
Greenbikemike

 

[Matt The Hammer]

He'll probably just roll it a little more to get the slope back. No seams or anything.

 

[Old Moparz]

Well,a little follow up on this,had it overlayed yesterday,42A asphalt,it looked a little low to me by the street,I didn't want any "duck ponds",but they said it would be fine and if there was a problem,they'd fix it.Got the job done around 10:30 a.m. rained a little around 3:00p.m. and I saw some puddles when I got home.I called the guy and took some piccs. he said he'd fix it. Well it rained like hell around 6:00p.m. this is what I got.Hope he s good on his word,I'll give him a chance,I've been burned,but still believe in a man's word.....I'm a little worried about how he'll fix this,if he just wants to patch it,I know that won't last and if he cuts it out,I end up with a seam.I was hoping to cross this off my long list of projects.
Greenbikemike

Is he paid in full? (Good luck)

It can be fixed properly to where it won't fail, but you will have a seam unless you overlay the whole thing.

The surface can be sawcut, perhaps in 2 parallel cuts at 1.5" deep, then milled at 1.5" deep in between to remove a thin layer of asphalt. If you have 4" over the existing pavement there won't be an issue. The new pavement going in can be built up higher in the low areas where the water collected.

The drawing I attached is a NYSDOT standard detail showing existing pavement getting a new surface layer in one area. If it matters, I've been the estimator for a site contractor since 1996 that also builds highways & has been in business for over 90 years. (Not bragging, just helping I hope)

 

[greenbikemike]

Thanks for the replies...
Don't know about rolling it,its low little about 15' back from the street and then comes up to meet the street,in the one picture you can see where the water runs between the 2 puddles.
I think cutting it about 15' back from the street and then pealing that off and relaying it is the only way to fix it right,one long seam,but I'd have to live with it until I seal it in the future.
Thanks guys,I'll give him some time,but if we get some rain days and I know they can't be working,he should have time to come around and we can discuss this,we'll see,
Greenbikemike

 

[TommyK]

That could be fixed with a hot plate.

 

[greenbikemike]

That could be fixed with a hot plate.

I'm not cook'n for him......sooooooooo?


The street is HIGHER then the drive way,the driveway has to be rasied so it meets the street.I live in Minnesota,snow melts,then it freezes,that puddle will be one BIG FROZEN puddle this winter,someones gonna fall,thats the whole reason I did this.City redid the road and its now higher then my driveway,

 

[volleyball]

The puddles are near the road, better than near the house. The only fix I see is to pitch the driveway to the sides. Have a crown like a roadway has. It doesn't have to be much.
Maybe on a hot day, you could have the guy roller it so the sides are lower and the water will drain off.

 

[Danver]

I thought about asking this same question here but never did get around to posting it. I go my answer from this thread anyway. In my case I have at least one small area with bad spiderweb cracks and at least one or two other cracks that are probably due to problems underneath from what I read here. Looks like my best option would be to tear it out and start over. In my case, since it is just the driveway to my "shop" which is just a two-car garage on an otherwise empty lot, I will likely just try to live with what I have and try to keep it from getting much worse.

 

[TommyK]

I'm not cook'n for him......sooooooooo?


The street is HIGHER then the drive way,the driveway has to be rasied so it meets the street.I live in Minnesota,snow melts,then it freezes,that puddle will be one BIG FROZEN puddle this winter,someones gonna fall,thats the whole reason I did this.City redid the road and its now higher then my driveway,

Infrared heater heats asphalt up sufficiently so that it can be raked and material added/removed without creating a cold joint like a patch would. The asphalt that has been reworked will have a slightly different texture to it than the undisturbed asphalt but I would rather that than a cold joint.

Google infrared asphalt repair.

 

[greenbikemike]

The puddles are near the road, better than near the house. The only fix I see is to pitch the driveway to the sides. Have a crown like a roadway has. It doesn't have to be much.
Maybe on a hot day, you could have the guy roller it so the sides are lower and the water will drain off.[/QUOTE

Well,if I have to put a crown in it or try to roll the sides,it'll still hold water in the WINTER.....it gets cold *** cold,as in ICE! and I[and others,Fedx,postal,ect.]have to walk over it,someones gonna fall[me I bet] It needs to be rasied so the water[or melted snow] flows down the street.
Greenbikemike

 

[greenbikemike]

Infrared heater heats asphalt up sufficiently so that it can be raked and material added/removed without creating a cold joint like a patch would. The asphalt that has been reworked will have a slightly different texture to it than the undisturbed asphalt but I would rather that than a cold joint.

Google infrared asphalt repair.

Thanks for that,I never heard of that,the company that did this I bet doesn't have one.I think that cutting it about 15'back from the road and pealing off the new and then raising it is the way,but ,then I get a cold joint,maybe heating the joint and tacking it.....I don't know,still wait'n to here back from him....

I wasn't trying to be a smart *** 'bout cook'n for him...
thanks for the reply,
Greenbikemike

 

[volleyball]

While I don't live in as cold a place as you, It freezes her too. The physics is you need to have a low spot for the water to go. If the garage isn't high enough above the road to get it to drain then you have to go to the side. As long as the driveway is above the lawn which it should be the pavement should drain and be dry where you can walk on safely.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

I thought about asking this same question here but never did get around to posting it. I go my answer from this thread anyway. In my case I have at least one small area with bad spiderweb cracks and at least one or two other cracks that are probably due to problems underneath from what I read here. Looks like my best option would be to tear it out and start over. In my case, since it is just the driveway to my "shop" which is just a two-car garage on an otherwise empty lot, I will likely just try to live with what I have and try to keep it from getting much worse.

Just keep sealing the cracks. Water getting in will help deteriorate the asphalt you got.

If needed, someone could sawcut the bad spots and repair the asphalt before overlaying it. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[greenbikemike]

While I don't live in as cold a place as you, It freezes her too. The physics is you need to have a low spot for the water to go. If the garage isn't high enough above the road to get it to drain then you have to go to the side. As long as the driveway is above the lawn which it should be the pavement should drain and be dry where you can walk on safely.

I'm not cook'n for him......sooooooooo?


The street is HIGHER then the drive way,the driveway has to be rasied so it meets the street.I live in Minnesota,snow melts,then it freezes,that puddle will be one BIG FROZEN puddle this winter,someones gonna fall,thats the whole reason I did this.City redid the road and its now higher then my driveway,

the garage IS higher.....I know laws of physics,read my post again....you maybe missed this part.....

"City redid the road and its now higher then my driveway"

I called the contractor again yesterday,said he'd "send someone out" to look at it,never saw him.....

Greenbikemike

 

[Chaznsc]

The bird baths seem connected and repairable to me. It may be possible to use a portable milling machine to groove the pavement right to left in the second photo. Then reheat and roll the paving.