New homeowner has another question. Help what is this?

[ajchien]

As some if you may know from some recent topics, I bought a new home. 2004 Taylor Woodrow built in 91709 California.

There's this thing on the outside wall if the garage. No idea what it is. Help? It's to the left if what appears to be a fire alarm?




On the inside if the garage in the same area is this:



Any help appreciated!

 

[Modern Jess]

Looks like a photo sensor, possibly for lights that come on automatically at dusk.

That's my guess, anyway.

 

[themiller]

left looks like photo sensor, right looks like fire alarm

 

[jrsulo]

Its got a transformer like a doorbell.....driveway alarm ?????

 

[LeonardY]

Photo sensor. Do you have landscape lights?
It's odd to have an unenclosed alarm bell. Usually they are enclosed so no one tampers with it.
The transformer could be for a lit street number. In my development all homes are required to have them.

 

[G McKay]

left looks like photo sensor, right looks like fire alarm

That's what I am thinking. Photocell with a doorbell/buzzer.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I would agree, it looks like a photo sensor. Not sure that it is related to the transformer. The transformer looks similar to those used for a door bell (low voltage) as others have mentioned here. Photo sensors like the one shown generally work in conjunction with outdoor lighting (and similar items that operate from dawn to dusk). In this installation I would expect to see the photo sensor attached to 110 volts. The other item, appears to be a bell, as would be attached to a fire alarm, especially in installations with fire sprinklers. The transformer could relate to that but I am not very familiar with alarm systems. Most alarm system components are however identified as such in my experience.

 

[ajchien]

BINGO! The red disk is a fire alarm. Says so right on it with really faded letters.

The other thing to the left is a photo sensor and it is connects to two front yard accent lights.

I've got the sensor in hand right now, guess I'll hook it up to a voltmeter soon to test it out - but it seems obviously bad by how it's functioning. Anyone able to give me a source for a new sensor? Looks like the brand was Intermatic.


Now I have only one mystery left. There's the switch in the inside if my garage - and there's one other exterior light that isnt working. Lol. I'm going to guess that these two are supposed to be connected up. I know I have power at the switch and I know the switch works. And I know the bulb in the fixture is good. How do I about finding where the failure is?

 

[7th Kahuna]

Is the light fixture near the switch? If so, and even if not, it is pretty likely that the switched leg (wire) would run continuous from the switch to the fixture. The first thing to check is simply that the connections are good at each end. From there it is step by step. If you have a volt tester, check for power from the switched terminal of the wall switch. Switches do go bad. Once you know the switch is working, then check for power at the light fixture, and so on. I hesitate to go into great detail here not knowing what your experience is.

One other thing to check. Does the switch have three wires or two. If it has three wires (excluding the ground (attached to a green screw if present)), then it is a three-way switch and works in conjunction with a second switch at another entrance. The wiring in these is a little more complicated and if done incorrectly, or disabled, could be part of your problem. I mention this because you said you removed a timer. That timer could have been the second switch prior to the timer being installed and timers are not typically three-way.

Photo sensors are common and can be picked up at any hardware or big box store. Intermatic is a reputable brand.

 

[ajchien]

First, let me thank everyone who has responded for your help!

The timer that I removed looked very simply. One black wire in. One black wire out. One ground wire. I changed it over to a simple on/off switch. One black in. One black out. One ground. Im not an electrician by any means. But it doesn't seem any simpler than that. I figured hanging it over to a simple on off switch would let me trouble shoot things easier.

In taking your advice. I know the switch is good and has power. Next is to see if I get power at this lawn fixture (it's kind if a lamp post looking thing ). I do notice what looks to be a metal junction box sticking out if the ground about 4 feet away near the corner or the yard. I'm thinking this metal box may be part of the circuit? Maybe I can get pics tomorrow.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I'll watch for your picks. If you are looking at boxes in the yard, oxidation could have spoiled your connections. Take care as you explore the contents. You may find a loose wire.

If the timer had replaced a builder installed three-way switch, you would expect to find another wire in the back of the box. Most likely it would be red, with a wire nut or tape on the end, and not connected to anything.

 

[ajchien]

If the timer had replaced a builder installed three-way switch, you would expect to find another wire in the back of the box. Most likely it would be red, with a wire nut or tape on the end, and not connected to anything.

Whoa. Good thought. I'm going to open up the switch again and look.

 

[ajchien]

Ok. So the switch is simple. Black in black out. ground. Neutral inside box connected with wire nut.

Here's the outdoor fixture and the outdoor box I'm seeing :

 

[7th Kahuna]

Interesting box, not for the box but for the size of the conduits. Those appear to be 3/4". For a simple lighting circuit, 1/2" would have been fine. Perhaps 3/4" was what they had, or perhaps you have more than one circuit in there. The box, post base and sections of the wall all look like they have had a fair amount of water exposure. I return to the idea that you could be suffering from oxidation in your connections. Time to start systematically pulling it apart and testing for conductivity. It will be good to see what's in that box.

On an entirely different note, it looks like you have yourself a great yard, trees and view.

Given the view and fancy fence, I wonder, is there any chance this might have been one of the model homes? Those can be interesting as changes are sometimes made that are beyond the scope of the plan. Things may be added and removed prior to the original sale. This could explain some of your mystery items.

 

[ajchien]

Thanks, I'll look into the box next - is it a good presumption that it is connected with the lamp post? Yes, my eyeball also guesses it is 3/4 conduit. might take me a few days to get to it to post pics, I've got a growing list of to-dos.

Thanks for the compliment on the yard. We bought it because of the yard. Kinda blowing the budget going from our 1400sqft starter home to nearly doubling the interior sq footage. The house is in the corner of a court, so it's got a tiny front yard and a good sized side/backyard. I think its a 9000 sq ft (0.2 acre) lot. The lamp post you see is in the front of the side yard. I really have no idea if it was a model home. The most annoying thing about this short sale was that it was handled by an estate that basically had no knowledge of the house, only vague disclosures such as "roof leak", "plumbing leak", so it's been a little adventure trying to identify these issues.

 

[csp]

Any big box (Home Depot etc) has replacement photocell switches.

It's not a timer either.

 

[ajchien]

Ok, so I opened up that box today, and it really wasn't that exciting.

Inside there's basically one black connection, one white connection, and one ground. However, there's no power in the box. Nada.

Ok not sure where to go from here. How does one trace where the conduits may be going underground!

And yes, there is a lot of corrosion and rust inside the box.

 

[readhead]

Blow some air into the conduit and look for where it is coming out. Be prepared for the possibility of some water coming out.

 

[G_P]

Have you checked for tripped breakers? Hopefully your panel is labeled well and you can easily ID the outdoor lighting circuit.

 

[csp]

I have a switch in the house that powers my photocell. That way I can override the lights automatically coming on at dusk if needed.

Perhaps this one is wired to a switch that's off as well.

X2 on checking tripped breakers also.

 

[woodrail]

Are you sure the bell is a fire alarm? I would have thought vintage security system?

 

[7th Kahuna]

First off, some questions. Is there any other 120 volt electrical around the yard? Are there other junction boxes, are there receptacles, lighting, appliances at the BBQ island? Are there other post lights? Are there any switches in the yard? Could the light be switched from the BBQ island? No?

Do your neighbors have light posts in their yards too? If they do, then there is a possibility the builder installed the circuit and its conduit may come up inside the wall. Generally however I would expect to find the other end of that conduit emerging from the soil outside the house. (All this assumes there are no other electrical boxes around the yard.) Look around your foundation and see if you can find any signs of a 3/4" conduit entering the home. If you find it, is there another box there or does it just turn and enter the wall? If there is a box, open it and inspect your wires. If it turns and enters the house, then unless you just happen to find yourself below your electrical panel, there is most likely a box on the other side of the wall. Either of these should be inspected for loose wires. One way or another you need to determine where the conduit goes. If it enters the electrical panel then it may not be the power to your lamp as there would be no switch to turn it on and off. Do you remember seeing any unattached wires in any of the boxes you have opened up? If I stood at the box in the yard and looked back at the house, what would I be looking at? What is closest? Are you looking at the garage wall, living room wall, patio? If so this would be a place to inspect. Working inside the house, I would open each box along those walls check the connections and and look for 'extra' wires. Most likely you should have found something at this point. No luck?

It would be helpful to know what you have or have not found.

 

[BikerDad]

The bell may not be a fire alarm, it could be a "remote" bell for the front door or a phone.

 

[ajchien]

@Kahuna: ok, thanks for the list of things to look for. Yes, there are 2 other post lights in the yard, but they're in the backyard - this one is in the front. The backyard ones work, and they have a switch. The BBQ island is also in the backyard. As for other receptacle boxes, I'm going to go searching tomorrow. There certainly may be, parts of the yard are a bit overgrown right now. Ive got some gardener help coming soon to help clean stuff up. I do notice some loose and cut flexible black wires in the ground, but they look like those low voltage 12V smaller garden light/accent light wiring.

When I stand back at the lamp/box and look back at the house. I'm looking at a front courtyard. There is 2 outdoor switches in the courtyard - no loose or extra wires, but there is one switch I don't know what it's turning on and off. It dosent seem to affect the lamppost. the other turns on off a outdoor fan.

The next closest unknown switch is the mystery garage switch I've been talking about.

And the third closest switch is inside the front door - activating other courtyard lights, and I've looked in there with nothing unusual.

So I guess my plan is to look for other yard boxes ... Open them up to see if there's a loose wire. Then to go around the perimeter of the house, trying to find conduit from the ground entering the house - and if there's a box there.


@biker and wood rail: seriously, the red round thing says "fire alarm" right on it. It's really faded, but that's what it says.

 

[csp]

The bell may say fire alarm on it, but the reality is anything could be wired to trigger it. Just a thought.

 

[ajchien]

By the way, this is my artistic rendition of how the yard is set up.



Oops. By the way - the East and West are flipped on my map. I got my directions messed up.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Ok, those answers help a lot and the drawing is great. You kind of read my mind, I almost asked earlier. I can't stop right this moment but I will have some other instructions a bit later. Wiring issues just about always seem more complicated than they are. I suspect we are close to wrapping this one up. As you are cleaning, keep your eyes open for other boxes just in case.

 

[ajchien]

Oh there's ONE more thing that might be helpful that my wife just pointed out to me. There also appears to be small accent lights on the property built into a set of planter boxes on the opposite side of the driveway from the house .... It would be on the most east side of the property. I've never seen those turn on yet, nor have I noticed any switch that would turn it on.

 

[ajchien]

Ok. Wow. The yard got cleaned up a lot and I've got a lot more info.

The lamp posts in the backyard are switched on and off at a remote switch that is wirelessly connected to swimming pool equipment. It's located on the north side of the house. Looks like this :



And then over by the southeast corner, close to the BBQ are these boxes:



The middle conduit has a black wire coming out and headed west, about 10 feet away it goes in here:



While standing at the BBQ and looking toward the front of the house (west) I actually see 2 lamps that do not work. One is the lamp post I've been taking about and there is another one on the gate wall:



The two backyard lamp posts each have a box. First one is southeast. Second one is northeast corner of backyard:






Last thing I see is a cut wire on the south side of the yard located between the gate and the non working lamp post - whoops. I didn't take a pic. It's the flexible type that looks like the Lower voltage accent light wire.

Whew. Long post.

 

[ajchien]

Oops by the way - the eat and west on my artistic map in an earlier post is flipped. I got my directions backwards. The driveway and garage is west. The Backyard is east.

 

[ajchien]

So these are those two boxes next to the BBQ.




At first, only the red wire in the right box is hot. When I go and turn on the switch for the backyard lamp posts, both lamps turn on and both black wires go live. Ok that makes sense.

The lamp on the gate and the front lamp are still not lit.


Here's a pic of the wiring I'm seeing cut around the yard :

 

[rslaback]

Have you tried your mystery switches at night? Is there a possibility that the switches control the lights (or something else) that also has a photocell in the circuit?

And not to be obvious but did you ask the previous owner about it?

 

[ajchien]

Have you tried your mystery switches at night? Is there a possibility that the switches control the lights (or something else) that also has a photocell in the circuit?

And not to be obvious but did you ask the previous owner about it?

Yeah, I've tried the switches at night, in combo with the photocell no luck so far.

It would have been nice to be able to ask the previous owner, but he has since passed away over 2 years ago, thus the short sale by an estate.

 

[ajchien]

Here's my updated artist drawing

 

[ajchien]

So tomorrow I'm going to look into those 2 side by side boxes next to the BBQ. I'm concentrating on the left box. Will disconnect all the black wires, find out which is the live feed. Then I can probably one by one figure out which wire goes to each of the backyard lamp posts. If there is a left over black wire - maybe that is going to the gate lamp and the front yard lamp post?


But then I still have the mystery garage switch and the mystery courtyard switch.

 

[ajchien]

Here's my update. The left box has 3 black wires. The solid one was obviously the live feed in. 2 stranded ones - one of the stranded ones feeds BOTH backyard lamp posts.

The other stranded one, well ... It's connected well. Seems like I got electricity flowing out through the wire.


So I'm either on the right path or on another goose chase. I'm headed to the lamp on top of the gate, going to take it off and see how it's connected in there.

Sometimes things take longer than I want it to, since most of my tools are still at my current place of residence. Looks like I need a p3 or p4 driver to take apart the gate lamp. I'm presuming the gate lamp and the front yard lamp is connected in series.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Whoa, Think it's going to take a moment to catch up. You've been busy.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I sure hope I never leave anyone a mess like that without some sort of direction. For starters, yes, the paired black wires are (or should be) all low voltage for your landscape lighting.

The boxes next to the BBQ seem to be key but also a bit confusing.

You say only the red wire is hot UNTIL you flip the switch ON, THEN the solid black is hot. I usually use red for the switched leg but I don't think that is a hard rule.

The outdoor electrical should be on one or more dedicated GFI protected circuits. Irrespective of whether the switch is in the yard or in the house, the lights should be GFI protected. Therefore it is reasonable to believe that the red wire is either supplying the power to the switch or getting it from the same source. (sorry I'm kind of adjusting as I go.)

If that is the case, then it should work as follows:

 

[7th Kahuna]

You didn't specify which red wire was hot. Either way the circuit continues on beyond these boxes separate of the lighting control. I am going to assume that 'D' is the source of everything and comes from your house / switch.

Here is a series of tests, some of which you may have already completed.

In the box on the RIGHT

Power enters 'D' on red / exits 'C' on red.
>>> Test: with wire nut removed from the two red wires, the wire entering from 'D' alone is hot. (replace the wire nut when complete)

Power exiting 'C' provides power source for BBQ island or?
>>> Test: can be tested later if necessary

Power from switch for lighting enters on 'D' black.
>>> Test: with the wire nut removed from the two black wires, the wire entering from 'D' black is hot when the switch is ON. If the switch is off, neither black wire is hot. (replace the wire nut when complete)

In the box on the LEFT

Power for the lighting circuit exits 'F' black and enters the box on the left as 'E' black.
>>> Test: With the wire nut removed from the black wires and the switch ON, only the wire entering 'E' is hot.

Power to the rear lighting exits ['A' or 'B'].
>>> TEST: Wire nut 'E' black to 'A' black then 'B' black one at a time and check which turns the rear lights on.

I will assume that 'A' black turns BOTH rear lights on.

*****************************************************

At this point I have to ask how you are turning them on. You said:
"The lamp posts in the backyard are switched on and off at a remote switch that is wirelessly connected to swimming pool equipment. It's located on the north side of the house."

Where is the switch (transmitter) and where is the receiver? Are you saying there is a remote switch (for example, near the house) which is talking to a receiver at the pool equipment or the other way around?

AND is this the switch you are using to power 'D' black?

*****************************************************

If 'A' black powers both rear lights then there is a good possibility that 'B' black powers the light atop the wall and maybe the front light. Alternatively I suppose it could power the transformer for the backyard low voltage lighting. Have you seen that anywhere?

<More>

 

[7th Kahuna]

Have you located any electrical boxes in the vicinity of this lamp?

If not, when you get it open, it will be interesting to see if there are two conduits running up inside the wall. One feeding power to this lamp and one exiting to the lamp post in the front. Once we know that then we can start some simple continuity tests to check the wires.