Best way to get power to a portable workshop?

[Strouty]

I have an old job site office/workshop trailer. I am trying to set it up for my wood shop as well as a crafting space for my GF. I have not figured out my total load yet, but there are a few big items in there that may just be too much for even a heavy extension cord.

I was looking at RV setups, but they seem to top out at 50 amps. I am trying to get closer to 100 amps, yet still have a flexible cord that can be plugged in when I need the space.

I will not need more than 50' of cord, I currently have a 200 amp service with room to put another 100 amp or less breaker.

What is the best way to go about doing this? I want to have an outlet on the outside of the actual shop, and then either have another outlet for the portable trailer or just wire it directly.

What size wire would I need? (looking at 2/4 SOOW) Will a solid wire allow more amps based on gauge?

 

[Norcal]

Be prepared to choke on the price for 100A Pin & Sleeve devices, you will need a 125/250V rated 4 wire device. A receptacle, back box & plug will be better then $500.

 

[Strouty]

What if I set up two 50 amp sub panels and just ran two cords? I think I found a panel for RVs that would allow me to do that.

100 AMP RV panel

This panel has a 50 amp, 30 amp, and 20 amp. It looks like I could swap out the 30 for another 50.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

You will come out much cheaper to go ahead and bite the bullet and use the 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder and bury it with conduit going in the ground with long sweep ells on each end and LB connections at the buildings.

Cord is crazy expensive in that size, and the connections, as already noted, will be far too expensive also.

Charles

 

[Strouty]

You will come out much cheaper to go ahead and bite the bullet and use the 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder and bury it with conduit going in the ground with long sweep ells on each end and LB connections at the buildings.

Cord is crazy expensive in that size, and the connections, as already noted, will be far too expensive also.

Charles

I need it to be portable, the trailer will be moved around depending on what is going on. I would love to be able to save the money and do it that way, but I can't say that the trailer will be in the same spot all the time.

 

[sberry]

Use a 50A cord and see if you really need more. Start with that unless you really have a machine that requires more? Overloads are so rare and the worry so hi.

 

[Strouty]

What size SO cord will be needed for 50 amp?

 

[sberry]

It really depends on the type of loads but a mobile home cord is good, most are 8. Hook it to a 6 space main lug breaker panel which is cheap. Put a 50 in the main and go from there. Hang it up semi temp fashion to get started, 2 240v outlets, 1 120 for lights, chargers, phones etc and one for a tool circuit. Whats the biggest tool motor you have?

 

[Strouty]

There will be a kiln and an oven for powder coating in there. Those are more down the road things, but I would like to be prepared. There is also a small AC unit in one window, everything else is kind of basic like a table saw and radial arm saw (radio alarm saw?). None of the tools are crazy, but I have not checked on the kiln or oven for amps.

 

[sberry]

Wire for those when it comes.

 

[offroadsteve]

I don't know the current draw on the kiln, but you are correct that you'll be bumping right against the limit for 50 amps, which is the largest plug-and-socket you'll be able to find for normal residential stuff. You can go virtually as large as you want, but anything larger you are into industrial equipment which gets expensive in a big hurry. We have connectors all the way up to 480V, 400 Amps here at work (and one special case of 14.7KV @ 400 Amps), but I don't even want to know what those cost.

Your options are either a large pin-and-sleeve connector, or go to cam-loc style connections (like you normally see on welding leads, just rated for line voltage) and individual wires bundled togehter, you'd need 4 total (L1, L2, N, G). Look for suppliers that do temporary power for events, concerts, etc. They would be your best source for connectors and cable in the size you need.

Either way, I would only have a receptical at the fixed end of the cable, and would hard-wire the end at your trailer. Then have a way to coil up the cable on the trailer when you need to move it around. That way you only need one set of connectors.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you really want 100A, use "seal-tite"/"liquid tight" flexible conduit, ut you will need #2 cooper.

I have seen some of these connections and they look like a good size fire hose nozzle ! You will probably NEVER find any location that you will have the receptacle you need.

The typical welder plug is a NEMA 6-50 (50A) but that is 240V only (ground, but no neutral).

NEMA L14-30 (120/240V, 30A, twist lock) is common on generators.

What you want is a NEMA 14-50 (120/240V, 50A, straight blade), but again this is not a very common plug and receptacle.

To get 50A over "portable cordage" (SOOW) I would recommend a minimum of #6 copper, #4 would be better.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What size wire would I need? (looking at 2/4 SOOW) Will a solid wire allow more amps based on gauge?

Marginally, but you would not be able to bend it, especially if it had 4 conductors !

 

[Syberia]

Solid wire will be physically smaller for a given gauge, but solid/stranded of the same gauge will carry the same amount of current.

I wish I had never gone and looked up the price of 2/4 SOOW. That's some expensive stuff.

Without using something like MHF, which would need to be permanently buried underground, I don't think there is going to be a cheap way of doing this.

 

[Strouty]

I guess I will split it into two zones, then I can plug them in with two smaller cords. I will have to investigate the price of the cord, I think I have some 6 gauge, but I know I do not have any 4 gauge.

I am sure there are some fancy plugs that will do what I want, but as others have stated I probably won't want to pay for them.

 

[Syberia]

For what it's worth, I found myself in need of a 50' 50 amp RV cord about a year ago and picked one up off eBay for $100. Had a plug on one end and just wires on the other. Still not cheap, but better, and you can actually get the receptacle without spending an arm and a leg.

I would dedicate one cord to the kiln (from what I've read, they draw close to 50 amps on their own) and the other for everything else. Assuming 30 amps for the oven (it will probably draw less), that leaves 20 amps of 120v power on each leg for tools and lights. Alternately, if you're not going to use the oven and kiln at the same time, you could put them both on one cord and split the other up into several 120v circuits and even a 240 for a compressor or whatnot.

 

[Strouty]

I went into my stock and found that I have two 50 amp twist lock plugs good for 250 volts. I would still need the socket ends, but that would be better than nothing.

After looking at the Appleton connectors, I may have one kicking around as well. I always have weird stuff.

I don't know if I dare brave the conex, it is probably a little warmer than a sauna. On the bright side, it will feel cooler outside after being in there!

 

[Strouty]

For what it's worth, I found myself in need of a 50' 50 amp RV cord about a year ago and picked one up off eBay for $100. Had a plug on one end and just wires on the other. Still not cheap, but better, and you can actually get the receptacle without spending an arm and a leg.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-foot-50-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5663005278&vxp=mtr

I found this one, does not seem terrible for the price.

 

[PugetDude]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-foot-50-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5663005278&vxp=mtr

I found this one, does not seem terrible for the price.

Better make this guy an offer:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/36-foot-50-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item5663005278&vxp=mtr

 

[Strouty]

I need to see what I have before I shell out any money. Seems like a pretty good deal overall, plus who knows what the actual price will end up being.

 

[ez-duzit]

That's only 36'.

You might find some used marine cables. 50-amp/240 volt, 50-footers are common and expensive. You'll need two cables to operate two individual 50-amp panels.

 

[The mean fish]

How far do you need to run? You can pick up 50' or 100' 50amp twist lock cables on eBay all the time from construction companies who use them with spider boxes. I've got a 50amp twist lock temp. breaker panel in my shop right now that I'm using until I hard pipe my shop.

It's on the ground in this photo.

https://scontent-b-dfw.**.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t1.0-9/10513412_10153046722203849_4460945703541761708_n.jpg

I've got about a 10' 50amp 6/4 lead on it with a twist lock 50amp male connector on it. I've got a 25', 50' and a few 100' 50 amp cords which allow me to weld pretty much anywhere on my property. I have a bunch of 20amp and 2 30amp L14-30 outlets on the box with a 50amp main breaker too.

I would highly recommend doing a 50amp twist lock everywhere, the straight blade 50 amp connectors are a PITA and they're nowhere near as solid as a nice twist lock for stuff like this which you'll be unhooking from time to time. A 50amp twist lock outlet is really the only high dollar part and even that isn't bad. Just buy a 50amp RV outlet box and swap a 50amp twist lock insert into it, it fits perfect.

 

[The mean fish]

Here's 200' of 50amp 6/4 SO cord, if you need 2 runs it'll get you 100' away.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-039-Gen...Hubbell-/281374625682?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

 

[The mean fish]

Here's 100' of 4/4 SO

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-SOOW-4-...439?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb210fd1f

Nix the idea of doing a single connector and do mini cam locks on the end of the cord, hard wire it into the panel on the trailer or whatever you're powering.

Install female camlocks on a panel somewhere like this and put the matching connector on the end of your 4/4 wire. You'll need 4 of them but color coding makes it hard to mess up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINCO-CLM...334?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item588abd8966

 

[theoldwizard1]

I went into my stock and found that I have two 50 amp twist lock plugs good for 250 volts. I would still need the socket ends, but that would be better than nothing.

How many prongs/wires ?

If they don't have 4 prongs, it is 240V only and can NOT (safely) be split into 2 - 120V circuits.

 

[Strouty]

How many prongs/wires ?

If they don't have 4 prongs, it is 240V only and can NOT (safely) be split into 2 - 120V circuits.

They were three prong. If I find some that are three phase (4 prong) would that work or will I still need different ones?

Based on what I have seen, it looks like the RV setup is probably going to be the best way. It looks like for under $400 I can have at least one 50 amp setup to run the panel in the trailer. When I get to the kiln and oven, I will need to run a second setup. The panel I am going with will allow me to run two 50 amp outlets if I need to.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

There is a NEMA L14-50 plug and receptacle which is rated 125/250v It is a little different than the smaller L14 series in that it has three curved blades, the neutral having a turned in tang, but the ground is a round pin in the middle. It is apparently so rare that Google images cannot even cough up and image of it and instead provides hundreds of images of l14-20 and -30 devices. I did find one lowly illustration of the plug and receptacle configuration.

50 amp RV is simply a NEMA 14-50 series with flat blades and a D ground pin. I think this is nothing more than a stove plug.

 

[Strouty]

With the 50 amp in your picture, can I run that to a sub panel and have both 220 and 110?

* I am conveying my true thoughts telepathically *

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yes, you have two opposing hots (L&R in the pic) and the neutral (bottom blade), with the ground pin right across from the neutral (on top).

 

[The mean fish]

If you go 50amp you can pick up this outdoor 50amp straight blade outlet from HD for under $30. That will work with any RV 50amp straight blade connector which will then allow you to do 50amp 240volt to a sub panel in the trailer/shop/whatever you are running power to.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-50...Temporary-RV-Power-Outlet-Box-CHU1S/100565603

If you want to do 50amp twist lock instead of straight blade just pick up one of these Hubble outlets and swap it into that enclosure.

http://www.lockingpowercords.com/Products/879-hubbell-cs8369-twist-lock-flanged-receptacles.aspx

Either way you can do what you want, it just depends on what kind of outlet you want on your house. If you think you might want to use that outlet for an RV one day then stick with straight blade.

 

[Strouty]

I ended up buying a panel. Now I need to buy some cable. The question that I still have is this. The 50 amp RV cables that I have seen on ebay all have the 4 prong style like on my panel, but seem to have a 3 prong twist lock on the other end. So how do they run a panel if they don't have neutral and ground?

Here is one I was looking at:

50 amp RV cord on ebay

I am not opposed to running my own SO cord and hard wiring it into the panel. I figure if I need to move the trailer, I just coil it up and hang it off the side. If I ever wanted to transport it, I could make a box to store it in under the floor.

I also looked at the oven, it looks like 46 amps on 240 volts, but I need to figure out the wiring to be sure. It is capable of single and three phase 208 and 240. On 208 single it is 53 amps. She is a big girl. The kiln is much less, at 25.9 amps so that is good.

Here is the panel I bought:






Here is the oven and the kiln.

 

[Strouty]

I think I see how it gets four contacts, it looks like it has a tab on the outside edge of the plug. I am going to wait for confirmation that this will run a sub panel before ordering one. I also found the inlet end for a great price.


50 amp twist lock inlet

If I am not looking at the correct cables, let me know so I can order the right ones. At this point all I want to run is the lights and some tools. Not the kiln or the oven.

 

[Strouty]

The same seller has 50' cords as well. His price per foot on the 36 foot cord is $4.58 and when you get a 50 foot it goes up to $5.20. He does have best offer, so I may try that out and see if I can get a better price. I would rather have 50 feet, but 36 feet will work.

 

[ez-duzit]

I think I see how it gets four contacts, it looks like it has a tab on the outside edge of the plug. I am going to wait for confirmation that this will run a sub panel before ordering one. I also found the inlet end for a great price.


50 amp twist lock inlet

If I am not looking at the correct cables, let me know so I can order the right ones. At this point all I want to run is the lights and some tools. Not the kiln or the oven.

Now you have it. The tab grounds the 4th wire. Get the 50-footer.

 

[Strouty]

Now you have it. The tab grounds the 4th wire. Get the 50-footer.

Perfect, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't buying a "cute" cord that would not do what I wanted.

 

[Strouty]

I got it for $225 so that is $4.50 a foot with connectors. He also has the Hubbell inlet connector, so I may go put an offer on that as well.

connector

There is a no name one that I can buy for $30 but I tried $50, hopefully they will counter.

 

[ez-duzit]

That is what is commonly referred to as a low-ball offer--highly unlikely to succeed. Google that part # for the lowest delivered price, and revise your offer to 10% less than that.

 

[Strouty]

He countered with $65 for the hubbell connector, I could not find one for less than $78 so I would say that is a good price. Now I just need to wait for UPS to deliver my goodies. I do still need to get some wire for the panel itself, but I may have some kicking around. It is only like 8 feet. I also need to get a smaller breaker for the main. Time to open things up a little more.

 

[ez-duzit]

Why change the main breaker? How many amps?

 

[Strouty]

It is 100 amps right now, I thought I would have to change it to 50 to match the output of my RV panel. If I don't need to change it that is one less thing to buy.