Whats the tool situation in the Germany?

[Alfajuj]

Considering that this is full retail pricing in a shop, I don't think that it is so bad. It's still way less than you'd pay for Hazet anywhere outside of Europe.

Of course on the internet you can buy for drastically less.
I take the 900 series socket set for example. It's 346 Euros in the picture. Online I bought that set for 249 Euros. But from retailers in the US it would be over 500 USD.

I think a lot of guys will go to the shop to look at the tools and then go home and order them on the internet. So these kind of shops will become less and less.

 

[Monte]

Alfajuj is right. Thats the full retail but Hazet has 2 sales catalogs each year (now one) so the tool box in this pic for example cost "only" 1576 Euro instead of 2243 and the tool-set in the lower right side in the pic instead of 1179.- only 998,41 € . Plus you can expect a 2 or 3% rebate ("Skonto") if you pay cash If you are a business customer you can also deduct the 19% sales tax since you practically don`t have to pay it so in the end it`s not too bad. oh and i looked at the SO site to find a 80mm wrench but snapon doesn`t make one ??? How i can work on my ship diesel then ???

ps:When i wanted to buy a SAE socket set from them they even charged 25% more than retail because they said that the margins are too low, after rebate it was retail price then. oh yes and i also was there played around with a Hazet fine tooth ratchet but bought it from my distributor then so I`m guilty too that those shops close... (but i hate to pay retail....) But it`s a nice shop.... a Hazet wall, Kukko pullers, Wera + Wiha, Bahco saws and chisels, Knipex, Viking lawn mowers and almost the full line up of Festool, Protool, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch green and blue, some Fein,Metabo,Panasonic and Stihl .... everything on display to take them into your hand. You rarely see that....

 

[goodfellow]

Thanks for the education Monte. All I can say is --I'm glad I bought most of my MAC and Snap-on tools in the 1970's. The average mechanic could still afford them at that point in time.

I'm also glad that we have very decent US made Craftsman hand tools that the average home enthusiast can readily afford. Today's Craftsman Professional tools rival my 1970's vintage MAC and MATCO products.

I can now see why some of today's German mechanics will only invest in a bare minimum of high quality professional tools.

 

[woody 73]

When I visit my in-laws in England I see lot's of tools that are made in China;I had a hard time finding made in England tools. I am sure if someone pointed me in the right direction I could find the better made tools...At the end of this month my Brother-in-law is coming for a visit , we will definitely go tool shopping! All the best Woody.

 

[steelespeed]

A few weeks ago I spent about 7 days in Bavaria visiting Munich and some of the surrounding towns (Dachau, Mittenwald, and one day in Salzburg, Austria) and unfortunately didn't see any shops selling tools like the one in Monte's pics. I was really hoping to bee able to bring a few small items home to the states with me, but no luck. A shame too because I was really hoping to at least be able to browse the tools we don't usually see here.

 

[superautobacs]

Oh man, what a shame; I, too, wouldn't be happy coming home empty-handed.

If I was to go to Germany I'd sure be contacting Monte beforehand to see if he could help out.

 

[dede2897234]

steelespeed,

Were you recently in Bavaria for business or visiting family? If business, what line of work are you in? I too live in Cleveland, OH. I am a computer programmer living in Willoughby.

Dave

 

[Monte]

you can check which Hazet dealers are in the city you visit by clicking here and then enter the zip code.

Gedore klick

VBW klick

stahlwille, knipex etc. you can email me
(if you ever visit germany again to get some real beer and pretzels)

 

[steelespeed]

Dave, I was in Germany for vacation. My great grandmother left Germany when she was a child, so for my first - and long overdue - trip to Europe was something of a pilgrimage. I am a graphic designer by trade, been in the industry for about 12 years now. Born in Cleveland, grew up all over the west side, went to art school in Pittsburgh, live in Philadelphia, PA and Wilmington, DE, then ended up back here for the time being with my girlfriend.

Monte, I will be returning to Germany. I would gladly take you up on your offer for a beer and a pretzel and extend the same offer to you. It would have been nice to meet a native to learn more than a guidebook can provide in regards to local traditions and customs.

 

[Canadian Charlie]

Sure many many people buy tools from Aldi or Lidl, they`re cheap and many people are happy with them. But if you look closer you`ll find a lot of safety recalls like axes or hammers which looses their head, tools with rubber handles which can cause cancer (they contain "Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons" sometimes 1000 times higher than allowed !! if you use your hammer 1 hour its like you smoked 3500 cigarettes i just read))
chainsaws which dont stop anymore, insulated 1000 volt screwdriver which are not insulated etc. etc. .....

I've seen the tools they sell at Lidl, they look and feel like junk. But the people wher I live will fight and argue to line up for 4 hours before the stores open to get a set like the time they waited for thier bar-b q's


Check this out and this was only for a small bar-b-q

 

[superautobacs]

LOL! The frenzy!

It's the same in many places around the world though. The Asians are pretty notorious for creating huge store-front line-ups.

 

[Monte]

I was at the "Harley Days" today (www.hamburgharleydays.de ) to see if the snap-on guy is there but only Gedore had a small booth there where they showed their new motorcycle tool sets ( Metric/SAE tools in one box, 1/4" dr. sets with metric and sae bits etc. to work both on Harley and non-harley bikes) and limited edition "DRA" series of tools. They also had their Gedore-Harley on display:

exceptionally not build by OCC

approx. 10.000 Harleys cruising through the city

 

[superautobacs]

I'm not a rider, but last one pictured is I sure dig that style.

Speaking of tools, I think the theme of the DRA series is

 

[billymade]

With all the laws in Germany; can Harleys have straight through pipes (no mufflers), no blinkers, taillight or license plates? All the riders I saw in Germany were heavily decked out in about every piece of safety equipment available; full on leathers, gloves, racing boots, helmets etc. Whats the deal? Is all this mandatory?

 

[Solomono]

That's what I miss. I'm not Sikh (the guys that wear Turbins. Sadly, they were subject to racial attacks after 9/11 because people didn't know the religion was formed as a direct antagonist to Islam and they don't cut their hair until the world is free of Islam), but I used to think from the news hype that there was some racism in the US. Of course there is, but at the same time, on a one to one basis, those same people will give people a chance as an individual. So my perspective has drastically changed as my living situation has somewhat worsened, personal rights/freedoms are restricted, and those who encouraged this move to Germany (germans) didn't seem to be forthcoming about the massive socio-economic problems here. In fact, I don't think it was malicious. I think it's part of the thinking of how everything is so great here and everything else is bad. In fact, before I moved, I found an article on German toilets. Some toilets actually have a shelf (a link will be below) so you go and do your business on it. In my experience before even seeing the article, Germans I know from the US would complain about American toilets, which is exactly outlined in this article! Even with a normal German toilet without the S-shelf, one has to flush several times, and brushes are even next to public toilets because you leave a skid. That's pretty savage, as far as I'm concerned. The problem is with even normal German toilets, the engineers didn't really meet with the Green people during the design. First, you flush, it's not clean. So it's acceptable to brush, then you have to flush again to rinse that water out and the bits off the brush. So now you've actually used 2x the water of an American toilet (as indicated by water meters we have over the taps). On top of that, the shape of the back wall allows a direct hit, while the water jets actually pass OVER it, not through it, so now you have another reason to clean and waste more water. When I informed my gf and her family of that when they were making fun of the US, there was no answer to why 2x the water needed to be used to flush a German toilet, even one without a sh*tshelf.

Article 1 from spiegel:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,406547,00.html

Article 2, a horrifying exploration of the German toilet's reality:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm


Luckily, I vetoed three apartments with the shelves. No way am I going to play with my ****. I'm not exactly happy about how it's ok to do what I'm doing on a regular toilet here that wastes more water than an american toilet.

And don't get me started on the smell here. Unless you've been here, on a train, or in a supermarket, you can not imagine the odor. I've been on trains in India during the summer and it doesn't compare to one or two people walking around a store and filling it.

and you did not think that the spray may enter the body? This is less hygienic. I think the German form of the toilet more than reasonable, even though more water is required. What is more important to spend an additional liter of water or your health?

 

[archirelic]

holy thread revival solomono!!!!!!!

 

[billymade]

This was a great thread; nothing wrong with commenting on it!

 

[american lockpicker]

I remember reading this thread a time or 2...

 

[kered]

holy thread revival solomono!!!!!!!

This was a great thread; nothing wrong with commenting on it!

I've just had a very entertaining morning reading this thread with my morning coffee. What started out as a rather interesting discussion on German/European tools, versus what our U.S. cousins use, strayed wonderfully, amongst other subjects, into the "depths" of German toilet design. So I for one am glad it got resurrected, as it sure brightened up my morning

Having read the linked articles to the German toilet design, I was brought to mind of another nugget of information on the design & use of toilets in Europe, which I felt compelled to share........

I believe that in Greece, the plumbing in older apartments, hotels & public toilets are not capable of dealing with paper. So as a result you are required in many cases to place your "used" paper in a trash can/bin beside the toilet & not flush it down the loo. So I think you can imagine the resultant aroma & "environment" that would greet you upon entering the facilities in many Greek establishments

Having never been to Greece myself, I have been spared the experience of discovering if this practice is widespread throughout the country or not & I must admit to not being particularly enthusiastic about ever making a trip there to find out

 

[Monte]

yeah the first page was good

 

[PrecisionTools]

Great read!

 

[scylla]

Yes it was a good read. Reminded me of my time in Germany in the late 70's.
I mostly had nothing but good times there. The women there were extremely hot!

The only real problem I encountered while there, was the way restuarants would charge extra for ketchup on your pommes frites! Barbaren!

 

[archirelic]

I agree also, a very great read, I was just shocked when I looked at the date of the start of the thread!

 

[Doktor Schnell]

Fantastic thread, with some quality writing that is rare.

I'm also happy to have learned about german toilets.

 

[XxToolAholicxX]

Very informative. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge.



I am a Toolaholic,Sometimes I regret it,Especially when the Toolman won't give me no credit

 

[ClineWrench]

Sure...I'll help dig up this old thread along with toolaholic. A great read indeed.

 

[weerez935]

I have a friend visiting Germany right now and this was a great read. Hopefully I can talk her into picking me up some tools. I have never been to Germany (American) but most of my family came from there and I would love to visit someday.

A few questions / thoughts:
How is bahco viewed over there in terms of quality? I'm curious since the ratchets are made in Spain if they are seen as a higher quality than US tools.

Also I saw the post about minimum wage and thought I would fill you in.

In the US it is 7.25 and I believe they put a plan in to increase it to 9.00 in a few years (incrementally). Neither is really enough to live here unless your on a college ramen noodle / loft apartment budget and working 40 hours a week or more. But there are some stranger laws regarding this as well. For instance waitresses and pizza delivery drivers only only have to be paid 4.00 per hour because they receive tips. However cooks in a restraunt have to be paid 8.00/hr. So the pizza guy using his own gas gets the short end of the stick.
Thought you might find it interesting.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BikerDad]

Also I saw the post about minimum wage and thought I would fill you in.

In the US it is 7.25 and I believe they put a plan in to increase it to 9.00 in a few years (incrementally). Neither is really enough to live here unless your on a college ramen noodle / loft apartment budget and working 40 hours a week or more. But there are some stranger laws regarding this as well. For instance waitresses and pizza delivery drivers only only have to be paid 4.00 per hour because they receive tips. However cooks in a restraunt have to be paid 8.00/hr. So the pizza guy using his own gas gets the short end of the stick.
Thought you might find it interesting.

Minimum wage laws vary by state, and even within states. The above is essentially correct as far as the Federal law goes, but states may have higher minimums, treat tip jobs more favorably, etc.

 

[Monte]

A few questions / thoughts:
How is bahco viewed over there in terms of quality? I'm curious since the ratchets are made in Spain if they are seen as a higher quality than US tools.

Some big box stores offered Bahco but the tools were discontinued (as well as one of the store chains who sold them...) so you only can find them at professional tool stores/hardware stores anymore. Mostly you see their woodworking tools like saws, wood chisels etc. sometimes additional screwdrivers, wrenches and sockets, as well as the DIY socket sets in the orange/black plastic cases. However the professional grade socket sets in red cases (now orange too) are rarely seen (if at all). Some professional stores have dropped Bahco since the big box stores carried them because they couldn´t compete with the prices. Some others have dropped them because the quality has slipped compared to the older "Bahco Belzer" tools.
Since the the takeover of Belzer through Bahco, formerly sold as the famous german premium brand "Belzer"/"Sandvik Belzer", later "Bahco Belzer" the quality has come down especially after introducing the "Ergo"-tools and change in country of origin. This is valid only for the german market though because in other markets certain Bahco tools were already outsourced long time ago (Argentina) so there were different tools for different markets.
I think the coo whether it´s spain or USA has not much to do with the assumption of quality, the brand name, price and image is what counts more. So if you can buy nowadays a Bahco socket set in a big box store for €49,95 or Bahco pliers for €12.- compared to the former "Bahco Belzer" or "Belzer tools" (Bahco tools are sometimes still advertised as "Bahco Belzer" to sell them) sold solely at professional tool stores where VDE pliers easily could cost like 60.- DM (€30.-) or even 120.-DM (60.-€) i think the assumption of quality is very low for the customer if he looks at a Bahco tool of nowadays and compares it with the older tools. At least over here in context with Belzer. So basically Bahco of nowadays has nothing to do with the older Bahco from Sweden or Germany (a.k.a. Belzer) and it´s just a brand "x" anymore. They do have some highlights like the saws but the socketry and wrenches are just average standard. So you could just buy Proxxon or Gearwrench as well.

Also I saw the post about minimum wage and thought I would fill you in.

In the US it is 7.25 and I believe they put a plan in to increase it to 9.00 in a few years (incrementally). Neither is really enough to live here unless your on a college ramen noodle / loft apartment budget and working 40 hours a week or more. But there are some stranger laws regarding this as well. For instance waitresses and pizza delivery drivers only only have to be paid 4.00 per hour because they receive tips. However cooks in a restraunt have to be paid 8.00/hr. So the pizza guy using his own gas gets the short end of the stick.
Thought you might find it interesting.

in Germany the minimum wage will be €8,50 from 2017 on.

 

[bahcoswed]

Monte: Are stahlwille that bad in the open end as you say in the 1 page? Does the open end spread much easier than other brands? I have full sets of stahlwille wrenches and consider to sell them because of what I read today Then what you say about SO, I compared combo wrenches and ratchets with other brands....SO combination wrenches are pretty damn fat compare to most regular euro brands in open end and box end! The ring was twice the size in thickness compared to Sandvik belzer 1952m, open end aslo! Dual 80 ratchets head are much bigger to! Whats the point to buy SO combo wrenches for example if they are much thicker than 10 times cheaper tools? I dont really know how all thinks, but when it comes to cars I choose tools that works in tight spots because its a pain in the *** to wrench in modern cars, especially BMW.

 

[Monte]

Monte: Are stahlwille that bad in the open end as you say in the 1 page? Does the open end spread much easier than other brands? I have full sets of stahlwille wrenches and consider to sell them because of what I read today .

no Simply choose the Open Box 14 instead of the Open Box 13. The 14´s have a slightly thicker jaw that makes them stronger. The manufacturers usually have a series of combi wrenches with a thick jaw and another series with thin jaws (e.g. Open Box 13 vs. 14, Hazet 600N vs. 603, Gedore 1B vs 7...)

Then what you say about SO, I compared combo wrenches and ratchets with other brands....SO combination wrenches are pretty damn fat compare to most regular euro brands in open end and box end! The ring was twice the size in thickness compared to Sandvik belzer 1952m, open end aslo! Dual 80 ratchets head are much bigger to! Whats the point to buy SO combo wrenches for example if they are much thicker than 10 times cheaper tools? I dont really know how all thinks, but when it comes to cars I choose tools that works in tight spots because its a pain in the *** to wrench in modern cars, especially BMW.

the SOEXM13 snap-on combo wrench has about the same jaw thickness than Stahlwille 14, Hazet 600N and Gedore 1B. The Stahlwille 13, Gedore 7, and Hazet 603 series are the short combi wrenches with thinner jaws.

 

[JoeMA]

Interesting thread (I always enjoy reading Monte's posts).

Anyone know what happened to Jerk Chicken? He had 1000 posts in 2 months before being banned.