how do i get tv cable out to barn?

[Jimmies63]

digging a trench tomorrow for electric and gas.

what do I Put in there for cable tv service?

I am guessing it needs to be fairly robust for direct burial and would need some kind of amplifier. It will be running about 450 feet underground.

 

[rsanter]

If,you,are putting in a trench them install 2 extra conduits while,you are there.
One for the cable and the other for who knows what.
You may even want to use that extra to run air back to the house or something

Bob

 

[nine4gmc]

You can't run cable over 300' without serious cost/issues, at 450' you would get no better picture than an antenna anyway. You certainly won't get digital tv/phone or internet though it. I would try an antenna or Directv.

 

[Jimmies63]

You can't run cable over 300' without serious cost/issues, at 450' you would get no better picture than an antenna anyway. You certainly won't get digital tv/phone or internet though it. I would try an antenna or Directv.

That's what I was afraid of. I'll go with a robust wires antenna and watch tv off the internet feed.

 

[Jimmies63]

You can't run cable over 300' without serious cost/issues, at 450' you would get no better picture than an antenna anyway. You certainly won't get digital tv/phone or internet though it. I would try an antenna or Directv.

Air back to the house? Cool idea.

 

[Bogey won]

450ft to the shop ?, way too far away,for me, i like mine closer the better, keep an eye on it, mmm, run some damn camera wire while your at it, 65 bucks for 60 ft i think ?

If your laying extra empty conduit, run a rope through it first, and use it as a pull rope for any future cables, wires, or whatever, hard to push 450 ft of sumpn down a tube in the ground. Just a thought.

 

[upstech76]

Used to be in the Cable TV industry and this isn't really a problem. I recommend using some RG11 Coax and if needed you may have to add a small amplifier at the house to boost the signal at the feed end. If you lucky you might get a cable installer/tech to donate the cable for some cold beverages!

 

[volleyball]

I don't see the length as a problem. You can test with a 500' coil and see how it looks. The better the receiver in the tv, the better the picture, so that old tube set might not work well while a mid level digital works fine.
So you can run gas, electrical and signal cable in the same trench? Who allows that?

 

[marty_p]

Keep the cable wire far away from the AC feed in the trench to reduce interference, and as stated, run a few extra conduits with some strong rope in them. You'll be thankful later!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The distance isnt a problem with larger diameter COAX like RG11 or larger. The ends are obviously larger so u will either need to buy the compression tool or find someone who can do it.

If this is being inspected, the gas line will most likely not be allowed in the same trench and regardless i would keep them separate anyways!

I would put in two 1 1/2" conduits for low voltage stuff!

 

[Jimmies63]

I don't see the length as a problem. You can test with a 500' coil and see how it looks. The better the receiver in the tv, the better the picture, so that old tube set might not work well while a mid level digital works fine.
So you can run gas, electrical and signal cable in the same trench? Who allows that?

I asked the town, the site is permitted so it is a legit install. I can put gas and electric in the same trench, not the same conduit. They would like it separated by sand, but not essential. Electric is 18" min, gas is 12" min (I found that surprising) both are going 24".

The cable signal was an afterthought. I didn't ask if it is allowed, but the electrician didn't say it wasn't. He just said not in the same conduit as the AC because it would mess up the signal.

 

[Jimmies63]

Keep the cable wire far away from the AC feed in the trench to reduce interference, and as stated, run a few extra conduits with some strong rope in them. You'll be thankful later!

I am going to run an extra conduit and I will put rope in it. Living what happens when you don't have it now. We have waterfront property across the road from our house. The PO ran electric, phone, and water under the road and to the shore for the decks and dock, but didn't figure on internet or tv some day. I would be nice to be able to just pull the wires under the road, but no dice.

Instead of running coax or internet, since I can run everything but broadcast channels (live football unfortunately) from the Time Warner cable internet feed, all I really need in the shop is internet. Since I also need internet across the road and in a garage (another building before the shop) I am thinking it will be cheaper and a lot easier to put in a hotspot. Found this company here online, it looks like I could put in an antenna on the top of the house that will give me line-of-site to everywhere for less than $1000. Then I would get internet everywhere on the property and hence, TV.

http://www.gnswireless.com/Wireless_Hotspots.htm

 

[volleyball]

You can put the cable above the others 6" down. If you get the burial cable, you don't even need conduit. I would lay 6" between electric and gas. Get marker tape to lay above them. The cable company is a cheap source for good cable, free or even if you have to pay for it.

There are horizontal bore companies that run cables and pipes under the town roads all the time. Might be worth investigating.
Another option is to get TW to wire up the boat house as a new customer

 

[Beemer533]

You could do an Omni type setup, but it might not be as reliable as a point to point installation..

I've installed these before and they work very well..

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EHSV4W/?tag=atomicindus08-20

All said and done, a pair of these shouldn't cost more than a couple hundred dollars installed.

If you really want to cover a wide range, they do have other options as well.

 

[upstech76]

The certified limit for Cat5/6 is 328' but I have heard that it will work beyond that distance but have never tried it personally. If it works it would be considerably cheaper and provide better speeds than the wireless. Just a thought!

 

[wasfuzz]

I don't see the length as a problem. You can test with a 500' coil and see how it looks. The better the receiver in the tv, the better the picture, so that old tube set might not work well while a mid level digital works fine.
So you can run gas, electrical and signal cable in the same trench? Who allows that?

It is very common here in the upper Midwest, just bury at different depths, often times done with a wider trench and shelves dug at correct depths. It is really nice if you are coming back later and looking for the underground utilities to know it is in a shared trench.

 

[Beemer533]

The certified limit for Cat5/6 is 328' but I have heard that it will work beyond that distance but have never tried it personally. If it works it would be considerably cheaper and provide better speeds than the wireless. Just a thought!

Well I generally prefer I wired to wireless, but in this case, with this distance I would go wireless. Those Ubiquiti nano stations are rock solid, and generally speaking, especially at only 400-500' provide plenty of throughput..

Honestly, you might get wired to work at those distances, but it is unlikely. If it does work, it probably won't be very reliable (especially for video) and throughput would probably not be very good either.

You could certainly waste 500' of CAT5e testing it out, but for $140 for the 2 stations I don't think it's worth it.

 

[Jimmies63]

Well I generally prefer I wired to wireless, but in this case, with this distance I would go wireless. Those Ubiquiti nano stations are rock solid, and generally speaking, especially at only 400-500' provide plenty of throughput..

Honestly, you might get wired to work at those distances, but it is unlikely. If it does work, it probably won't be very reliable (especially for video) and throughput would probably not be very good either.

You could certainly waste 500' of CAT5e testing it out, but for $140 for the 2 stations I don't think it's worth it.

They look good. I think I will give them a try.

 

[Beemer533]

If you do go with them, let me know if you need any help!
It's been a while since I have had to play with the ones I setup, but I'm sure it will come back to me..

They aren't difficult to setup, but neither are they plug and play...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

450ft to the shop ?, way too far away,for me, i like mine closer the better, keep an eye on it, mmm, run some damn camera wire while your at it, 65 bucks for 60 ft i think ?

If your laying extra empty conduit, run a rope through it first, and use it as a pull rope for any future cables, wires, or whatever, hard to push 450 ft of sumpn down a tube in the ground. Just a thought.

 

[AE2]

If all you need is internet, pull some fiber and put a media converter on each end. Not cheap but it's probably best solution based on distance.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I would use RG11 as others have suggested.

 

[volleyball]

How about RG 6?

The shielded RG11 stuff TW uses should be more than adequate. I would tap it off near the house input with the lowest attenuation tap you can get.
A TW tech can put ends on a roll and test the signal level for you before you ever lay the wire. No guess work.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I am going to run an extra conduit and I will put rope in it. Living what happens when you don't have it now. We have waterfront property across the road from our house. The PO ran electric, phone, and water under the road and to the shore for the decks and dock, but didn't figure on internet or tv some day. I would be nice to be able to just pull the wires under the road, but no dice.

Instead of running coax or internet, since I can run everything but broadcast channels (live football unfortunately) from the Time Warner cable internet feed, all I really need in the shop is internet. Since I also need internet across the road and in a garage (another building before the shop) I am thinking it will be cheaper and a lot easier to put in a hotspot. Found this company here online, it looks like I could put in an antenna on the top of the house that will give me line-of-site to everywhere for less than $1000. Then I would get internet everywhere on the property and hence, TV.

http://www.gnswireless.com/Wireless_Hotspots.htm

If all you plan to do is install a wireless hotspot, you need to read this thread. It has all the "scoop and poop" on sending the signal over a distance, and focused so everyone doesn't receive it, and you won't spend a bundle doing it.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244142

Charles

 

[jeffmoss26]

I don't think RG6 is going to be good for the distances he has. That's why others recommended RG11.

 

[TxAgs]

Run some Cat6 cable. At least 2! Trust me!

 

[Beemer533]

Run some Cat6 cable. At least 2! Trust me!

Why? He states clearly his trench length is 450', which probably means a total run of close to 500'.

LAN is good for 328' (100m), generally. You might get lucky, depending on your components but I wouldn't count on it.

You could use the CAT6 for phone line I guess, that should work.

 

[volleyball]

the 328' is a minimum. With a lack of interference, you can go a lot further. And devices have gotten better. He may not be able to do gigabit or higher speeds. A good pair of switches at both ends.

 

[Beemer533]

the 328' is a minimum. With a lack of interference, you can go a lot further.

Minimum?

Even with CAT6, the max allowable length is 90m +10m of patch cabling..

I realize we aren't talking about an IT infrastructure here, but I just want to keep his expectations down.

Also, that kind of distance running parallel to power cable will also reduce performance unless he can keep them separated by 12"...

Yes, it is possible and it may work fine, but I wouldn't count on it...

I'd run fiber personally, then I wouldn't care about crosstalk or distance.

I'd install one of these Switches at each end with a MM SFP, and a preterminated fiber assembly and be all set!

Quite a bit more $$ than the wireless connection though and more than needed if all you are doing is surfing and streaming some YouTube... The Ubiquiti nano stations will have no trouble at all.

 

[volleyball]

Yes, minimum. With only one pair you can run cat 3. It is the same conductors as cat 6, just less twist which is for crosstalk.
You are right about the separation from AC, the farther the better.

 

[Jäger]

You would need to use RG-11 coax. The signal loss of RG-6 is too much for that distance.

If you ran RG-6 to the barn and installed an amplifier to increase the signal, you will not have a good picture. The analog would be grainy and if a digital box was installed, you would have tiling or blocks on the TV. If you amplify a **** signal, you will still have a **** picture.

 

[Jimmies63]

Update: never put coax in the trench. Too much $ too risky. Bought 2 Engenius ENS202EXT outdoor wireless receivers. One is attached to the house and runs off the cable Internet wireless hub in the house. It is cofigured as an AP or wireless access point. The second one is mounted on the pole barn 450' away. It is configured as a wireless bridge.it brings the signal in the barn to another wireless router. The TV is a smart TV (but I was using Apple TV on a dumb TV off my iPad for a while).

Bottom line, for a couple hundred bucks I have Time Warner Cable on my tv and full wireless thought the shop with 0 degradation in the Internet connection from the house. Amazing.

The config was a little tricky for a dummy like me, but I overcame that with two hockey tickets to college student studying computers.

 

[Beemer533]

Nice, glad it worked out! Did you put conduit in the trench just in case, or no?

 

[Jimmies63]

No extra conduit. Decided 400' of bends and turns would be tough to pull something unknown in the future. Two extra runs of wire in the conduit we laid and we used one set for a three way to the barn outside light.

I did run caution tape on top of the full run, marked it well against landmarks and bought a backhoe in case I ever feel like opening it up again!

 

[volleyball]

Glad you are happy but you spent more money and electronics will fail long before wire so you'll be spending money again. TW just sticks in in the ground a few inches down and will replace it rather than protect it.
And for those that have obstructions, wire may be there only option.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Glad to hear you got it solved. Engenius makes some very good stuff.