Open grounds on receptacles

[6768rogues]

My son has a 6 apartment house and a recent C of O inspection revealed that some of the 3 prong duplex receptacles have open grounds. I removed some from the wall and it appears that they were wired in the 1940s or 1950s (extensive renovations in that time period) with 2 conductor braided sheath wire. There are no ground wires and the boxes are not grounded. As most of the problems are on the 3rd floor, there is no way to get ground wires to the receptacles. I assume that they were originally equipped with 2 prong receptacles and at some time in the past they were "upgraded" with 3 prong receptacles without grounding the third prong.
Are the following compliant with the NEC:
1. Change the receptacles back to 2 prong and grandfather them in.
2. Provide them with GFCI protection (would have to be at the panel because the old boxes are too small for receptacle GFCIs), then label the outlets as "GFCI, no equipment ground".
3. Another landlord at another nearby house installed jumpers from the neutral to the ground at the receptacle. It fools the inspector's test, but I think it would create an unsafe condition.
My questions:
Are 1 and 2 compliant with the NEC?
Am I correct that 3 is unsafe?
A ground wire is out of the question, so any other ideas?
Thank you.

 

[teamextreme]

1 and 2 are both NEC compliant, but there may be local codes particularly being a large rental property, in NY, with some govt agency involved in inspections, that have stricter rules.
3 is definitely a violation and is absolutely a safety hazard.

 

[Zeke]

I don't think the new 2 prong receptacles need GFCI protection other than the indicated locations in the current code. IOW, plugs in the living room don't have to have that protection. If the panel is old you may not find a GFCI breaker either. You may have to cut in an old work box where needed.

I would be more worried about overload with all of today's electronics and free standing appliances. It would be a good idea to identify the circuits not only to optimize GFCI placement but to distribute the load. But you can get tenants to only do so much. Give each one a box full of adapters.

Note: you mentioned code and 'grandfather'. Your son needs to know what the ins co is looking for and what the local authority as well as HUD say about how far back you can go and be safely grandfathered.

I don't even like that word.

 

[6768rogues]

The building is in upstate NY and the code is a version of the IBC with some NY changes. Electrical is the NEC with no changes in our locality. The panel is old but Square D Homeline breakers fit perfectly. The panel has a double breaker for the stove, a single for the furnace and three other breakers, so replacing the three with GFCI type would not break the bank. I am meeting with the inspector next week to go over another property, so I will discuss it with him. I think the two hole receptacles would be the easiest and cheapest, but adding GFCI breakers would enhance the safety considering that the ground is missing.
In NY, as long as it was legally installed in the past, it is still legal. The only retroactive requirements are for smoke detectors and CO detectors.
Thanks.

 

[Zeke]

If one of the breakers is for lights, you might not want to GFCI that. If it's split up, well your call. I'd do the survey.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The building is in upstate NY and the code is a version of the IBC with some NY changes. Electrical is the NEC with no changes in our locality. The panel is old but Square D Homeline breakers fit perfectly. The panel has a double breaker for the stove, a single for the furnace and three other breakers, so replacing the three with GFCI type would not break the bank. I am meeting with the inspector next week to go over another property, so I will discuss it with him. I think the two hole receptacles would be the easiest and cheapest, but adding GFCI breakers would enhance the safety considering that the ground is missing.
In NY, as long as it was legally installed in the past, it is still legal. The only retroactive requirements are for smoke detectors and CO detectors.
Thanks.

Personally I think you are wasting your money going to GFCI breakers. I'm beginning to sound like a parrot, but there are few three prong plug devices used in the average home. Two prong receptacles will work fine. Of course if you have to install a GFCI receptacle in the bath, and the kitchen, it might be easier to install a GFCI breaker.

The problem with the breaker installation is that just because it "fits fine" doesn't make it legal, and I would want something that was legal in all respects for a rental, even if it was a little more work.

You need to determine what brand of panel those are, and if there is a legal GFCI breaker that can be used in it.

Charles

 

[theoldwizard1]

... there are few three prong plug devices used in the average home.

That statement is general true. The exception is electronics !

I installed a GFCI, with the appropriate "no equipment ground" label, in my daughter's living room so they could plug in a power strip for TV, cable box, network router, game console, etc. All of those item had 3 prong plugs.

The other oddball is a refrigerator. Most have a right angle plug with the cord exiting straight down so the the 'fridge can be place closer to the wall. A 3 to 2 prong adapter is an issue.

 

[Norcal]

2-wire receptacles are no longer compliant for replacements, they have to be tamper resistant & no 2-wire devices are tamper resistant.

SQ D Homeline are only UL listed to be used in SQ D HOM loadcenters, they are not UL classified to be used in other manufacturers products.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

2-wire receptacles are no longer compliant for replacements, they have to be tamper resistant & no 2-wire devices are tamper resistant.

2011 NEC 406.12 Exception (4) allows for non-tamper resistant two prong receptacles as replacement. Has the 2014 code eliminated this?

It would appear from looking at this map from Jan '14 that NY state is still on the 2008 code, so the exception would be acceptable to the OP.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The building is in upstate NY and the code is a version of the IBC with some NY changes. Electrical is the NEC with no changes in our locality. The panel is old but Square D Homeline breakers fit perfectly. The panel has a double breaker for the stove, a single for the furnace and three other breakers, so replacing the three with GFCI type would not break the bank. I am meeting with the inspector next week to go over another property, so I will discuss it with him. I think the two hole receptacles would be the easiest and cheapest, but adding GFCI breakers would enhance the safety considering that the ground is missing.
In NY, as long as it was legally installed in the past, it is still legal. The only retroactive requirements are for smoke detectors and CO detectors.
Thanks.

As others have said, even though a breaker may fit, u cant add it to any panel unless it is UL listed.

Also EGCs aka grounds and GFCI are 2 different things and are not the same! A ground provides a low impedance path for fault current and a GFCI detects imbalance in current flow between hot and neutral.

Is there a subpanel anywhere that u could run ground wires to? Code does allow ground wires to be run separate from circuit wires for the purpose of upgrading old electrical.

And typically the only things that need grounds are appliances and surge protectors, UPSs.

 

[6768rogues]

The apartment is on the third floor of a three story building and the panels are in the basement. There is no way to run ground wires without tearing walls open. I know equipment grounds and GFCI are not the same. However, a short that would go to ground on a three prong plug might instead with a 2 prong plug go to a person in contact with the electrical device. In that case, the GFCI might save a person from getting a shock and would be safer than no ground and no GFCI.

 

[Radix2]

The apartment is on the third floor of a three story building and the panels are in the basement. There is no way to run ground wires without tearing walls open. I know equipment grounds and GFCI are not the same. However, a short that would go to ground on a three prong plug might instead with a 2 prong plug go to a person in contact with the electrical device. In that case, the GFCI might save a person from getting a shock and would be safer than no ground and no GFCI.

How about up the exterior to the attic and then down to where you need them ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How about up the exterior to the attic and then down to where you need them ?

Exactly. He could run one large egc upto the unit, then splice smaller EGCs, for the branch circuits, to the larger EGC in a j box. Code allows EGCs to be run separate from circuit wires for retrofitting. The EGC must be sized based on the largest ampacity circuit.