Garage Door won't open

[Gearhead00]

Two car garage door, Chamberlain Professional opener.

It's been working 4.0. This morning, came out to open it, door came up 6" and stopped. Hit the button again to put it down, and it closed, and then cycled back open to 6". Hit the button again, and it closed and reopened to 6".

I lubricated the rollers, but no help.

Is this something simple or is the opener shot?

 

[LB-1911]

Give this video a look -
Garage Door Balance Test

 

[Gearhead00]

Opener is a Chamberlain 1280R, 1/2 HP belt driven. Sensors are aligned and functioning.

 

[LB-1911]

Opener is a Chamberlain 1280R, 1/2 HP belt driven. Sensors are aligned and functioning.

When you have the trolley released does the opener function properly?

Chamberlain FAQ
http://chamberlain.custhelp.com/#s=...tMSwic29ydF9kaXJlY3Rpb24iOjF9fX19fX0sImMiOjN9

 

[Gearhead00]

Just found the problem.

Broken spring. Big as day.

Is spring replacement best left to a professional or can it be a DIY thing?

 

[RonnieC]

Just found the problem.

Broken spring. Big as day.

Is spring replacement best left to a professional or can it be a DIY thing?

HA! I was thinking that because one of my torsion springs broke last night. I've always heard to leave torsion springs to the pros. That's what I'll be doing.

 

[LB-1911]

Is spring replacement best left to a professional or can it be a DIY thing?

You may want to review the information at the links below and draw your own conclusion.

Introduction to Garage Door Springs
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/springs/garage-door-springs.php

Standard Garage Door Torsion Springs
http://ddmgaragedoors.com/springs/standard-torsion-springs.php

 

[pattenp]

If you are mechanically inclined and do your homework you can do it yourself. Nothing ventured nothing gained. The website ddmgaragedoors.com is a great resource.

Just found the problem.

Broken spring. Big as day.

Is spring replacement best left to a professional or can it be a DIY thing?

 

[Stuart in MN]

I had to get a torsion spring replaced a few years ago and I called a garage door repair company. Their price was pretty reasonable, and the repairman got it done in about 15 minutes where it would have taken me hours (granted, it was -10F so he was motivated to work quickly. )

 

[Gearhead00]

While I certainly think a straight forward replacement is well within my capabilities, it comes down to time, parts availability, and what happens when the install goes off the rails.

I called a local company to get it fixed today.

Thanks for the help GJ!

 

[Gearhead00]

I'm guessing if one spring broke, the other is probably not far behind?

Is it common to replace both springs once one breaks?

 

[tipsy]

Agree with LB1911 and Stuart in MN. As I began to read this, broken spring was my first guess, then I saw that you had found that. What kind of door do you have? Big heavy wooden door like I had was breaking springs every year or two. Just don't make springs as strong as they used to. Finally replaced my door. Whatever the door, be sure to replace both springs!

 

[LB-1911]

I'm guessing if one spring broke, the other is probably not far behind?

Is it common to replace both springs once one breaks?

I would start fresh with two new springs and a properly balanced door.

You may want to take a look at your opener and see what the condition of the drive/worm gear is.
Pg 34 item #3

1280R Manual
http://www.liftmaster.com/CatalogResourcesV3/en-us/shared/files/tucmanuals/A2092M.PDF

Good Luck

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm guessing if one spring broke, the other is probably not far behind?

Is it common to replace both springs once one breaks?

Yes, they typically replace them both at the same time.

I asked the guy who did mine if there was an average life span, and he said they used 10,000 cycles as a rule of thumb. I figured it out, (15 year old spring x 365 days/year x opening the garage door twice a day on average = 10,950) so his rule of thumb was pretty close.

 

[pattenp]

10,000 cycle springs are the very bottom of the range. I'd use at least 20,000 to 30,000 cycle springs. The spring length makes a difference as to the cycle rating.

Yes, they typically replace them both at the same time.

I asked the guy who did mine if there was an average life span, and he said they used 10,000 cycles as a rule of thumb. I figured it out, (15 year old spring x 365 days/year x opening the garage door twice a day on average = 10,950) so his rule of thumb was pretty close.

 

[kelpaso1]

I have done springs myself but you have to be very careful. I was told by a garage door installer a great tip to extend and possibly double the life of the springs is to oil them liberally with engine oil once a year.

 

[upndown]

When ever I change springs, especially on light weight metal doors, I go up at least one wire size. This translates to a longer spring, this has worked well for me for many years. I always recommend replacing both, or you're constantly replacing springs! Takes the same amount of work to do one or both.

 

[pepi]

I have done springs myself but you have to be very careful. I was told by a garage door installer a great tip to extend and possibly double the life of the springs is to oil them liberally with engine oil once a year.

And how would you guess that the motor oil extends the life of the spring? The spring breaks because of metal fatigue. But if the garage door installer said it will double the life of the spring, it must be so they know.

Got some nice swampland for sale, interested it is in FLA ?

 

[kelpaso1]

And how would you guess that the motor oil extends the life of the spring? The spring breaks because of metal fatigue. But if the garage door installer said it will double the life of the spring, it must be so they know.

Got some nice swampland for sale, interested it is in FLA ?

Well before I oiled my "dry" springs the coils rub and bind against each other when opening and closing causing visible vibrations and noise, which in my opinion will create metal fatigue faster. After I oiled them that went away, nice and smooth now. Either way I don't see how oiling would hurt any thing.

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

Around here they charge an arm and a leg for replacement. Last guy gave me some song and dance about liability insurance, Like $350 per spring! I did my own a few weeks ago, for gods sake I'll put a new door in before I spend $700 on two springs. It was pretty easy, Heck I'm thinking about putting an ad up on Craigs as a garage door repair man. Undercut these bozos by 75% and still make $100 for a 2 hour job.

 

[upndown]

Turn his *** into the BBB or Registrar of Contractors! Good for you, let someone else make his truck payment..

 

[Gearhead00]

$180 and 2 hours later I had two new springs installed. He oiled them, and later I oiled them again, but they're still groaning a bit. I watched him do the whole thing, 7.5 turns, neutral balance check, etc. I was happy with the speed of service and the price, but I may have them come back out to investigate the groaning.

 

[kelpaso1]

And how would you guess that the motor oil extends the life of the spring? The spring breaks because of metal fatigue. But if the garage door installer said it will double the life of the spring, it must be so they know.

Got some nice swampland for sale, interested it is in FLA ?

$180 and 2 hours later I had two new springs installed. He oiled them, and later I oiled them again, but they're still groaning a bit. I watched him do the whole thing, 7.5 turns, neutral balance check, etc. I was happy with the speed of service and the price, but I may have them come back out to investigate the groaning.

See Pepi. I guess I wasn't so wrong. You a metallurgist or something?

 

[kelpaso1]

Regular maintenance of your garage doors is essential. Periodic lubrication will keep your doors going strong for years. Lube the roller bearings ,(not the track), the cables, door hinges, and springs yearly. Oil is fine but I use a product from Wurth called HHS2000 in a spray can. Goes on thin like wd40 and gets everywhere but once the accelerant evaporates your left with a thick, stringy oil that stays for a long time. Good stuff.

Also same for the opener. Lube the chain and cable and the trolly and the lift arm hinges. And adjust the chain/cable so it is tight enough to not slap around.

My doors when I moved here a few years ago worked clunky, noisy, and jerky. After I spent an hour lubing and adjusting things they work smooth as silk.

I know this sounds like an ad but it's not. I'm no garage door "expert", but I have installed a few and I learned how to do things right and what works and what doesn't. So **** on me if you want but every thing I said can be found on hundreds of garage door sites.

Garage door maintenance is not rocket science and there is plenty of info on Google and YouTube to guide the way.

 

[PFSard]

Wurth HHS2000 in a spray can.

What's the cheapest place online to buy this? Or where did you buy it?

Thanks
Paul

 

[kelpaso1]

Originally Posted by kelpaso1 View Post
Wurth HHS2000 in a spray can.

What's the cheapest place online to buy this? Or where did you buy it?

Thanks
Paul

Well I used to have this small blond hottii rep come to my shop but she no longer does cause she changed jobs So I just call them and they send me out a case. It's about $45 a case of 12 plus about $15 shipping to my door. A case lasts me a year at my small engine repair shop. I'm in Canada mind you so your prices and shipping may be different. Just look up Wurth Canada.

Also their Brake Kleen is pretty cheap too. A case of 12 for around 30 bucks plus 15 shipping. Beats paying 10.99 in the stores for 1 can

 

[upndown]

Another good product is Fehr Lube, Kinda Pricey but I get mine from my wholesalers. Sounds about the same as Wurth, but I'm not familiar with that product. Any good silicone spray will work.

 

[kelpaso1]

Another good product is Fehr Lube, Kinda Pricey but I get mine from my wholesalers. Sounds about the same as Wurth, but I'm not familiar with that product. Any good silicone spray will work.

Hmm had a look at that. Ya does seem similar. It sprays on thin then when it dries you get a film of thin like sticky stringy lube. It's not oil and not grease, kind of in between

 

[jstroede]

I have done springs myself but you have to be very careful. I was told by a garage door installer a great tip to extend and possibly double the life of the springs is to oil them liberally with engine oil once a year.

I can say that this is not true. I had a customer many years ago tell me something like that, so I thought what the heck, I will test out this theory since I had the proper test equipment to do so. I spec'd out 10k cycle springs for a door and installed them in my testing rig. I installed them in my test rig and started it going. After a couple of days, it was stopped when I came into work. I went to the cycle counter and it read something around 10,120 (forgive me for not remembering the exact number but it was close). Then I changed out the springs for an identical pair, but this time I covered them in spray lube. After a couple more days, I heard a pop outside my office so I went and checked it out. One spring was broken. I checked the counter and it lasted about 50 cycles longer than the other one.

Don't get me wrong, properly oiled springs will run smoother and keep them looking a little better, but it isn't going to magically make your springs last longer. Too much oil is going to do nothing but make a big mess on the front of your door. Fatigue kills springs, not friction.

I got a free lunch out of that deal

John

 

[Gearhead00]

I'm guessing that while fatigue life is absolutely the limiting factor to spring breakage, having oil between the coils to prevent friction may help avoid a peak resistance to tension, which would take the metal past its breaking point. It definitely quiets them. I'll do it just for that.

 

[kelpaso1]

I can say that this is not true. I had a customer many years ago tell me something like that, so I thought what the heck, I will test out this theory since I had the proper test equipment to do so. I spec'd out 10k cycle springs for a door and installed them in my testing rig. I installed them in my test rig and started it going. After a couple of days, it was stopped when I came into work. I went to the cycle counter and it read something around 10,120 (forgive me for not remembering the exact number but it was close). Then I changed out the springs for an identical pair, but this time I covered them in spray lube. After a couple more days, I heard a pop outside my office so I went and checked it out. One spring was broken. I checked the counter and it lasted about 50 cycles longer than the other one.

Don't get me wrong, properly oiled springs will run smoother and keep them looking a little better, but it isn't going to magically make your springs last longer. Too much oil is going to do nothing but make a big mess on the front of your door. Fatigue kills springs, not friction.

I got a free lunch out of that deal

John

Interesting. Thanks for that. How does this test rig work. Have any pics or vids of it in action?

 

[upndown]

$180 and 2 hours later I had two new springs installed. He oiled them, and later I oiled them again, but they're still groaning a bit. I watched him do the whole thing, 7.5 turns, neutral balance check, etc. I was happy with the speed of service and the price, but I may have them come back out to investigate the groaning.

I agree with John. Lubricating the springs will keep them from rusting, as well as eliminate noise from Spring Bind, but if you're experiencing Spring Bind, something was not set correctly. Once springs are wound and stretched correctly and the drums set tight against the end bearings, there should be no movement in the torsion assembly,which can cause binding.

Not knowing what your Doorman faced, but I'd be a little more suspect of the fact it took him 2 hours to replace the springs. Hell, a complete door can be installed in less time than that.

 

[Cobra96]

I installed garage doors for many years. You can DIY..... Not very hard if its an extension spring, torsion, you need special tools. Have someone help you lift the door to fully opened position then lock the door in place by locking two vise grips onto the track under the bottom sections two bottom rollers. Disconnect the cable where it hooks onto the track with an s hook. Bring the broken spring to a garage door supplier and replace both springs, they are normally color coded for weight identification. When you reconnect the cable after replacing the springs, the springs should be in a "just relaxed state!"
Oil the rollers NOT THE SPRINGS, that will just spit oil and grease all over the place?
Hope this helps!

Chuck

 

[jstroede]

Interesting. Thanks for that. How does this test rig work. Have any pics or vids of it in action?

No pictures or video, but I can describe it for sure.

Take your standard 16x7 door in this instance installed in a framed enclosure. Take a T5011 commercial opener and cut down the rails and adapt it for use on a 7 or 8 ft door. Then build a timer mechanism with two limit switches, one at each end of the door travel, and add in a counter and you have an apparatus that can cycle doors about as fast as you want to cycle them. There are a few more details, but that is the high points.

There are spring cyclers for testing torsion springs, but I like testing real world conditions better. Plus other components can be tested as well.

John

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

If your door is still groaning after new springs chances are you motor is worn out. Not the motor itself but the main gear driven by the motor. It's plastic and they wear down causing noise and slower action because teeth are worn off the gear. Having a broken spring and not knowing about it will cause this. Unless it's a double door 16x7 or similar a standard opener should still lift the door with 1 spring broken. Also lubrication of the springs is very important to make it live a long life. The friction from turning will decrease the life of the spring. Iv always recommended customers to spray lube on them monthly, also on the bearing. Rollers and hinges every few months. Cables do not need to be oiled unless you live in a wet area or lots of moisture in the air, just use a little wd40 to remove the moisture so the cables don't rust. PB blaster makes a garage door lube that you could buy at almost any hardware store.

 

[Gearhead00]

it's a full 16x7.5 insulated door. 1/2 HP opener. The groaning is coming from the springs, only during one portion of the operation.

I have the PB blaster lube, I'll coat the springs again.

The 2 hours was the total from when I called the company to when the springs were replaced. Pretty good I thought. The actual replacement took about 30-45 min, including him waiting for a call back on the appropriate replacement spring from the office where they had the computer gonkulator to do the math.

 

[upndown]

The 2 hours was the total from when I called the company to when the springs were replaced. Pretty good I thought. The actual replacement took about 30-45 min, including him waiting for a call back on the appropriate replacement spring from the office where they had the computer gonkulator to do the math.

HAHA, that sounds a little more like it! As far as the springs groaning, that's a new one on me. The only noise I've ever heard is a Popping sound if the spring is bound.