dampen porcelain tile/floor when laying ?

[gregtwojeeps]

I finally tired of my garage floor looking like **** with 5 different layers of paint and carpet glue on it, from the previous 40 years of owners. I have used a grinder and cut it down in prep for 12" x!2" porcelain tiles....

Should a person "mist" with water, the back of each tile before they "butter it and mist the floor before they put the tile mortar down ? I have heard too many times that dry substrates instantly pull the water out of the mortar, which weakens the bond ? Fact or fiction ? thanks, Greg

 

[Shea]

Porcelain tile doesn't absorb water, that's one of the benefits of using it as a garage tile. Your concrete can absorb water however, especially after grinding, so it's not a bad idea to mist or keep a wet sponge nearby to run over the surface before spreading the thinset. You just want it damp, not wet.

When I laid limestone in our kitchen I did both the concrete and the tile. Limestone can **** the moisture right out.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Porcelain tile doesn't absorb water, that's one of the benefits of using it as a garage tile. Your concrete can absorb water however, especially after grinding, so it's not a bad idea to mist or keep a wet sponge nearby to run over the surface before spreading the thinset. You just want it damp, not wet.

When I laid limestone in our kitchen I did both the concrete and the tile. Limestone can **** the moisture right out.

O.K. thanks for the reply...

The question came to my mind yesterday after thinking about the porcelain tile installation I will be doing on my floor. I had just bought some concrete surfacer at a concrete materials store....

When I asked the sales rep about any tips to get the surfacer bonded well to my floor, he said the largest reason for bonding problems in surfacers, was the installer putting it on dry concrete and the dry concrete sucking the water out of the surfacer. ..

He told me to soak the freshly ground concrete floor where I was putting the surfacer on a low area, until the water would not soak in any more, then apply the surfacer. I had heard this before on some other mortar/bonding applications that are done and was curious to see if others had learned of such problems. .

 

[kwfloors]

Its also important to mix your thinset exactly. Too many people mix it wetter than it should be for ease of use but it makes the thinset weak bonding. Make sure you get good transfer on the back of the tile when setting, lift a set tile to see if it has suction. If the thinset is too dry it won't have suction.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Its also important to mix your thinset exactly. Too many people mix it wetter than it should be for ease of use but it makes the thinset weak bonding. Make sure you get good transfer on the back of the tile when setting, lift a set tile to see if it has suction. If the thinset is too dry it won't have suction.

Thanks for the good tip ^^^^

I went to Lowes to their floor dept. and asked the sales guy who was probably in his late 50's to help me with my porcelain tile materials /pricing estimates. ....

When he asked me where I was installing it and I told him," in my garage" he immediately told me and I quote, " You cannot lay porcelain tile in a garage, it will not work" ..

 

[84944Redline]

Isn't it most often the case where the sales people at Lowe's and Home Depot are -at best- only knowledgeable enough to direct you around the store?

Doesn't it make you want to print off some pictures if tiled garage floors and go show the sales guy at Lowe's? Not to be a jerk, but just to let him know that tile, if laid properly, is very durable and actually makes a lot of sense in a garage!

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Isn't it most often the case where the sales people at Lowe's and Home Depot are -at best- only knowledgeable enough to direct you around the store?

Doesn't it make you want to print off some pictures if tiled garage floors and go show the sales guy at Lowe's? Not to be a jerk, but just to let him know that tile, if laid properly, is very durable and actually makes a lot of sense in a garage!

When I told the sales guy to just type in, " Porcelain Tile in the Garage" on his PC browser, I knew he would end up on GJ and he could read and see for himself that he was way out in left field with no glove. His reply to me was,
" I guess you believe everything you read on the internet "

 

[usa#1]

I would suggest you use the good thinset. Not the cheap stuff. I like the "Custom" brand that HD sales. Look on the Custom website and use the thinset they recommend for your application. If it isn't clear what to use, call up Custom's tech support and get their recommendation.

 

[kwfloors]

Just a modified thinset is good. Latacrete has some beefed up thinsets but you pay more for it.

 

[NC4AB]

+1 on dampening the concrete before putting the thin set down. Some tips from putting down too much tile recently:

Buy a good set of knee pads along with a supply of your favorite pain relief medication

Invest in (or rent / beg / borrow) a 1/2" drive low speed drill to mix the thinset. A 3/8" drill won't cut the mustard.

Follow the instructions on the bag, first time around I had a tendency to mix it too thin. You want the consistency of peanut butter, when you strike it with the notched float the profile should remain in the thinset.

After you lay a few hundred tiles you'll get the hang of it.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

+1 on dampening the concrete before putting the thin set down. Some tips from putting down too much tile recently:

Buy a good set of knee pads along with a supply of your favorite pain relief medication

Invest in (or rent / beg / borrow) a 1/2" drive low speed drill to mix the thinset. A 3/8" drill won't cut the mustard.

Follow the instructions on the bag, first time around I had a tendency to mix it too thin. You want the consistency of peanut butter, when you strike it with the notched float the profile should remain in the thinset.

After you lay a few hundred tiles you'll get the hang of it.

I won't be on my knees as I tore both of my meniscus cartilages in them years ago laying VCT floors, and had arthroscopic trim jobs done on them, so now any floor work I do, I "**** scoot".

I have a old 1980 vintage 1/2 in. chuck, 650 RPM , high torque, tossed me off a ladder once when it hung up, Milwaukee "D" handle drill I will be using to mix the thinset with, while using a 1/2 hex shank paddle mixer in it . ...

Since I bought the tile at Lowes and it is to be delivered in the morning at 11:00 am, I went ahead and bought their sanded grout and porcelain thinset. Damn, I lost the name of it... the name brand starts with a" K" something I think....

I use their grout /thinset at work to lay quarry tile in a commercial kitchen for small tile job repairs. It sticks the tiles down like a booger on a fly strip, and the commercial kitchen staff abuse the **** of the quarry tile floors with heavy hardware being dropped on it, big appliances dragged around on it, and by using HEAVY duty degreasers on it every night at closing to keep the floors from becoming being a fall hazard. . . So hopefully it should work in my garage tile job.

 

[Dakota00]

I went ahead and bought their sanded grout and porcelain thinset. Damn, I lost the name of it... the name brand starts with a" K" something I think....

Kerabond from Mapei??

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Yep, that's it Kerabond. thanks

 

[Dakota00]

^^ I hope you're using Keralastic with the Kerabond.

 

[Zeke]

When I told the sales guy to just type in, " Porcelain Tile in the Garage" on his PC browser, I knew he would end up on GJ and he could read and see for himself that he was way out in left field with no glove. His reply to me was,
" I guess you believe everything you read on the internet "

I think I'd send a link to this thread to the Lowe's regional manager and tell him that you were happy with the tile and supplies but will be going to HD from now on where the sales staff is less argumentative and more helpful.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

I think I'd send a link to this thread to the Lowe's regional manager and tell him that you were happy with the tile and supplies but will be going to HD from now on where the sales staff is less argumentative and more helpful.

I agree, the sales guy was hired to do a job and failed at it miserably, but I really don't want to be the one with the head axe....

I think the guy was one of the many casualties of our times, a senior on a pension but had to find work somewhere just to keep eating. Lowes has a fairly strong reputation for chopping heads and I don't want to be the guy to get him fired. ....

Some people cannot be changed in the way they handle problems presented to them. It was quite evident this guy had never heard of porcelain tile being used in a garage, so rather than be proven ignorant of a project in front of a customer and avoid any questions that he did not have answers for, he chose to be an *** and just state porcelain tile won't work in a garage. ....

His choice, and someone else will probably get him fired when he does it to them. With myself coming up on the same dilemma of surviving as a senior on a fixed income, I have some empathy for him. For now, he can keep getting his small check and keep on surviving, as it is not worth it to me to get him canned.

 

[Pythonpete]

You should see the looks and questions that I got from friends, family and others when they found out I was putting in a porcelain tile floor. They were convinced that it had to be done with special tile because there's no way tile wouldn't crack. In fact there are tons of threads on here with people doubting it can be done.

 

[Zeke]

I agree, the sales guy was hired to do a job and failed at it miserably, but I really don't want to be the one with the head axe....

I think the guy was one of the many casualties of our times, a senior on a pension but had to find work somewhere just to keep eating. Lowes has a fairly strong reputation for chopping heads and I don't want to be the guy to get him fired. ....

Some people cannot be changed in the way they handle problems presented to them. It was quite evident this guy had never heard of porcelain tile being used in a garage, so rather than be proven ignorant of a project in front of a customer and avoid any questions that he did not have answers for, he chose to be an *** and just state porcelain tile won't work in a garage. ....

His choice, and someone else will probably get him fired when he does it to them. With myself coming up on the same dilemma of surviving as a senior on a fixed income, I have some empathy for him. For now, he can keep getting his small check and keep on surviving, as it is not worth it to me to get him canned.

Reputation or not, he might not get fired over something that he should be cautioned about if he is to keep his job. You might be doing him a favor. Send the link to the store manager instead and he can read your feelings on the deal from beginning to end. The fact that people discuss these issues on the Net should be important to any manager.

Or maybe not.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

^^ I hope you're using Keralastic with the Kerabond.[/QUOTE]

Well I have the names of the products I will be using all screwed up, sorry about that. A picture or two is worth 3000 of my words.

Am I good to go with what Lowes sent me or do I need additives or bonding agents for my fresh ground concrete floor ?


This is what Lowes delivered today with my tile.....

 

[Dakota00]

^^ Do your winters go below freezing temps in your area?

As for grout, you'll be fine. But depending on the color if it's in the lighter to medium tones I suggest using a sealer for the joints.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

^^ Do your winters go below freezing temps in your area?As for grout, you'll be fine. But depending on the color if it's in the lighter to medium tones I suggest using a sealer for the joints.

Yes, in Ky it gets down to the minus 0 deg. F. levels at times and my tile color is light colored/beige with brown splashes of color in it. ...

I put a wall mount natural gas heater in my one car attached garage so that I can piddle with my car during the winter, so it never gets below 40 deg. F. in my garage. Now if I have a gas or heater failure, all bets are off... ....

I think I follow your point though, if the grout gets water down in it and the garage gets below freezing, there will be a freeze/thaw effect on the grout making it pop out probably ?. ....

The most simple way for me is to spray the whole floor with sealer, but knowing the porcelain tile doesn't need sealed, will I be just making a mess to have to try and clean from the tiles ? ....

The thought of scooting around on my keester and stencil brushing sealer on just the grout joints alone, makes my head and keester hurt just thinking about it.

Thanks.

 

[Dakota00]

The point I'm making is, if water penetrates the grout which will seep under the tiles during the freeze/thaw cycle not only will the grout joints pop so will the tiles!!

Now knowing the climate in your area, the thinset you got is not recommend for severe freeze/thaw conditions. BUT you can buy the latex additive that is added to the mix to withstand the freeze/thaw cycles. Seeing as your application is not severe. I would at the very least return the grout you bought and buy the Mapei Ultracolor Plus instead. It's waterproof, stain proof, oil and chemical resistance as well. This will guarantee that water, snow and slush will not penetrate the grout lines and cause any damage.

There's no need to seal the grout joints when using the Ultracolor Plus, but I still did mine anyways for extra protection. It's very easy and fast to apply the sealer with a small sponge brush, working in sections at a time. Any extra sealer that goes on the tiles can easily be wiped off with a rag.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

O.k. I'll change my grout to the Ultracolor Plus. Any particular brand of sealer that you recommend for best results and longevity ? thanks,

 

[Dakota00]

Any quality grout sealer will do. StoneTech from Dupont is pretty good stuff.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Update. I finally got started laying the porcelain tile. The pic below indicates what your tile should NOT look like before grouting. I have done porcelain/ceramic tile for small repairs but never one the size of my one car garage and have now found out it is a bit overwhelming. I keep creating more and more work for myself it seems. Sometimes ones just gets in over their head on projects I guess. Live and learn.

 

[Dakota00]

When laying, keep the tiles clean and take your time! Remove the thinset on the tile surface while it's still fresh. Clean the joints out with a pencil and sponge, repeat until joints are fairly clean. This will save you a lot of time and hard work that can be easily avoided.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Well, it is done. My first porcelain tile job and I learned a lot. One... I will never do another tile job as I am too old and in too poor of health. Also with me being 62 y.o. I do not have the patience needed to do a really good tile job.....

Two, my wife would leave me if I tried to do another tile job in our home. Even with the use of a high power vac machine while grinding the floor and using painter tape to seal the one car attached openings to the house.... still... a very fine, white concrete dust is on everything in our house... Either foot tracked or floating in...

I achieved what I wanted though. When the snow melted from my Jeep, the water ran IN TO the crawlspace under the common wall between the house and garage. I used concrete surfacer and raised the floor at the common wall and now the water is draining to the center of the garage floor and out over the aluminum 1/4 in. x 3 in. flat bar transition I installed at the tiles edge at the garage door ...

The tile is REAL easy to clean ( just use my electric 1500 psi pressure washer) and the sealed grout repels the water well. If I had it to do over again, I would not do it. But, now that my pains have subsided some, I am pleased with the tile in my little, but very convenient for car detailing, one car garage.

 

[deezee]

Looks good. A lot of work but worth it. I did my garage to and will not take on a project that big again. I have lots of respect to those who do it for living.

 

[Shea]

Awesome! Nice work with the border.

 

[ajohno]

Top job

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Awesome! Nice work with the border.

Thanks, my tile job is like the paint job on a car that is labeled as a "20 Footer". Meaning it looks great as long as one views it from a distance of 20 feet.

The border ( parking lanes) actually served as a multi purpose feature. My garage width is 12' and 2 inches drywall to drywall. I did not want to end up with one inch wide strips of porcelain along the walls so, I cut the brown tile lanes 8 " wide so I would have almost a full tile width along the wall edges...

PLus, because I back in to the garage and it is small, I needed a marker lane to guide me so I can get the doors open on my Jeep without hitting the walls. As long as I align my drivers side wheels just inside the brown tile lane, I will be dead center. The garage door is actually off center some in the garage space. The black rug will go under my Jeep engine as I know it is hard for some to believe, but my Jeep's 4.0 engine has a rear main seal with a real small drip.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Greg, really nice work!! I think you did a great job, especially for a rookie. I just started my garage on the weekend (here:http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263687), and holy **** - it is much harder and slower than I was expecting. You've inspired me to attack it again when I can make some time though!

 

[marty_p]

Great job, Greg! You have a beautiful floor that you can be proud of!

My largest ceramic tile job was setting a 400 sq. ft. garage turned living room at my in-laws in one weekend. I laid it all one long Saturday, grouted it all one long Sunday, and paid for it immensely until Thursday. I quickly learned that I wasn't invincible...

Back on subject: I had pre-soaked the ceramic tiles in a washtub of water as I worked, and that floor is still perfect after about 15 years of heavy traffic.

 

[OJ Bartley]

Greg, I just came back in to see your "in progress" pics so I don't feel like the only one making a giant mess of things as I go. If yours came up that clean in the end, I feel better. I'll have to put in some more scraping time this week.

It looks like our garages will be fairly similar when I'm done... not that there's a whole lot of real options with a 1-car that you actually park in. But it's nice to see a good small space in it's finished state.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Don't let the one car "only" garage discourage you OJ. ...

They have their advantages. Like back when we bought this house I pointed out to my wife that it only had a one car. My wife instantly said, " I don't care, I'm retired I don't have to scrape windows or snow early in the morning just to drive work. " I don't need a garage" she told me. ...

Heh,heh, I got my own private car space. A second car will never be in the way. No one to bang their car doors against mine. I set up my detailing supplies, stereo, heat, AC, tools, exactly the way I wanted. I wash/wax/detail my car all year long in the garage. I go out in my garage, play my old 80's country/rock tapes kick back and just be a bum/ tinker or actually work on the car. ....

No one to interfere with my "time" or to get in my way, step on my stuff on the floor, while they are walking/driving in and out of my space. So a one car is cool, just enough space to keep your ride sharp and to tinker with, but not so much space you will buy TOO much stuff to fill it up. Or... get big projects going in a larger garage, that a year later you might regret ever starting. Been there done that one. Your one car is going to be dandy OJ.