I spent 40K building a garage so I could fill it with HF junk

[Fretters]

Why would anyone buy a premium luxury brand when they can get a korean knockoff? Well a few can tell the difference

With the decent quality gear, I doubt most could tell any real world difference in usability or quality. It's the really cheap end of things where it sticks out like a sore thumb. A lot f stuff, you can tell just by look, without ever touching a piece, as to its general quality. Saying that though, I've come across, and even have, a few pieces which are rough as a badgers **** on finsh, yet have performed perfectly well for donkeys whilst getting some serious amount of use.

IMHO, once seriously **** stuff is taken out of the equation, (the stuff where the metal or manufacture is of such poor quality that it is obviously going to self destruct quickly), most tool damage is due to the user and not the tool. I've seen plenty of 'professional' users treat their tools in a manner which could make a man wince.

 

[jd_1138]

IMHO, once seriously **** stuff is taken out of the equation, (the stuff where the metal or manafacture is of such poor quality that it is obviously going to self destruct quickly), most tool damage is due to the user and not the tool. I've seen plenty of 'professional' users treat their tools in a manner which could make a man wince.

I saw my boss once use a Snap-On ratchet as a hammer when we were putting some shelves together at our new warehouse. I left and went and got a hammer for him.

The HF composite ratchets are really nice. I have a couple in my trunk tool kit.

 

[ATC]

**snip**

I think the lesson here is... you don't know what you are talking about and are someone I wouldn't like to associate myself with

Agreed.

I can walk into HF with $1k in my pocket and literally load up my truck. Shop press, engine hoist & stand, many ratchets & breaker bars, impact guns & sockets, hammers, etc...

What can you get on the SO truck for $1k? Two ratchets and a 40-piece socket set?
Or maybe an impact gun and 13 impact sockets?

You go ahead and pay for the pretty name stamped on your tool. I'll get a lot more done with my truck load.


BTW, most of my tools are Craftsman and Gearwrench. The rest are Blackhawk, SK, Stanley, EZ-Red, OTC, and some HF

 

[Fretters]

Must admit, I've been guilty of using a ratchet as a hammer in the past. Only when something needed a fairly gentle tap though, not hammering away on something like a loon. Funnily enough, that ratchet is one fine example of something which was fairly cheap having done no end of work and still being in sterling working condition. Other than cleaning and regreasing it once when it became a bit stiff, that thing has done an unbelievable amount of work and ne'er put a foot wrong. It's served me extremely well over the last twenty or so years.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Oh the irony of the pot calling the kettle black!

The original poster trolled that he was amazed at peoples choice in tools, inferring that brand HF was utter junk. Only to find out that he is proud of tools we viewed with the same disdain in the past! In the years before overseas products were common Sears sold tools to everyone from housewives to farmers. Mechanics and industrial users looked down on these "consumer grade" tools. Many had the same regard towards Craftsmen as some folks today have towards Harbor Freight.

I grew up in an era where "real" mechanics used tools sold by tool companies not department stores. I don't have but a few Craftsman tools among my stuff, I have far more stuff from Harbor Freight. It is hit or miss with HF but, there are some good products at good values to be had there. My wrenches, sockets, and other hand tools are for the most part Snap-on and Proto.

I am an unapologetic tool snob, in fact I am an unapologetic snob in general. Nearly everything I buy is best in class. It is harder and harder today to justify buying new anything today, even the premier products are cost engineered into the dirt. I find myself buying new old stock of everything from tools to clothing! I really don't mind used either if it is not used up.

On the other hand just because something was made 20 or 40 years ago in the US doesn't make it a premium product. There was plenty of junk made right here in the good old USA. There is a perception that everything made in the good old days was top quality, it ain't so and it never was.

Steve

 

[back2class]

Such a stupid thread. I have everything from top brands to off brands in the shop and I am just fine with HF if it serves it purpose well. Had a Bridgeport mill and Logan Lathe. Now have a HF mini lathe/mill and for 13% of the investment and 10% of the space it does 90% of what I wanted from the bigger stuff so it makes sense for me. My $3,500 snap-on/OTC shop press...being sold because my $100 HF 20 ton does 100% of what I needed the other one to do. Nobody hates junky tools more than I do, but that does not mean for occasional use I need the best made. Some HF stuff is more than up to the task that its owners ask of it. For the most part, I find their simple heavy stuff quite a good value, but would not mess with their welders or stuff like that. On this subject, as I have matured I have moved away from the "everything I own needs to be professional quality" and now buy at the level I truly need. Sometimes the investment and size of this stuff makes it a foolish choice. I choose what works for me, plain and simple. Sometimes that is SO and occasionally that is HF.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Nobody hates junky tools more than I do, but that does not mean for occasional use I need the best made. Some HF stuff is more than up to the task that its owners ask of it.I choose what works for me, plain and simple. Sometimes that is SO and occasionally that is HF.

This is the summary of this thread. There are people who love tools and that is their hobby and they don't mind shelling out. And there are people who use tools and they get what they need to accomplish a task.

 

[FriendOfYours]

Both of their TIGs and all the new Black MIGs are the cats pajamas. No joke. Excellent machines. The two 180 MIGs we use all day every day at my shop doing exhaust and motor mounts

I've probably put a coupe thousand hours on my blue TIG building headers

 

[Casey69]

This is the summary of this thread. There are people who love tools and that is their hobby and they don't mind shelling out. And there are people who use tools and they get what they need to accomplish a task.

yep. most of my HF stuff is fine for what i use it for. for example, i needed a wood planer recently. checked lowes, HD, amazon, & HF. all were >$50 & most were ~$70. HF had them (with a coupon) for $26. might not every use it again, but who cares for $26! if i were a serious woodworker, i'd get something much more suitable for repeated use.

 

[comedyman809]

i think the bottom line here is: WHO CARES!

 

[Spyder1gdsm]

Bigger ROI on a nice garage than nicer tools when it comes time to sell.

 

[Perrorojo]

You guys keep going to HF and Snap on and I'll keep picking up Armstong,
S-K, Proto, and Indestro at the estate sales of all the mechanics that are dying off. Do what makes you happy and let others do what they want. If creating Troll threads makes you happy you can always visit yellowbullet.

 

[Zeke]

Oh the irony of the pot calling the kettle black!

The original poster trolled that he was amazed at peoples choice in tools, inferring that brand HF was utter junk. Only to find out that he is proud of tools we viewed with the same disdain in the past! In the years before overseas products were common Sears sold tools to everyone from housewives to farmers. Mechanics and industrial users looked down on these "consumer grade" tools. Many had the same regard towards Craftsmen as some folks today have towards Harbor Freight.

I grew up in an era where "real" mechanics used tools sold by tool companies not department stores. I don't have but a few Craftsman tools among my stuff, I have far more stuff from Harbor Freight. It is hit or miss with HF but, there are some good products at good values to be had there. My wrenches, sockets, and other hand tools are for the most part Snap-on and Proto.

I am an unapologetic tool snob, in fact I am an unapologetic snob in general. Nearly everything I buy is best in class. It is harder and harder today to justify buying new anything today, even the premier products are cost engineered into the dirt. I find myself buying new old stock of everything from tools to clothing! I really don't mind used either if it is not used up.

On the other hand just because something was made 20 or 40 years ago in the US doesn't make it a premium product. There was plenty of junk made right here in the good old USA. There is a perception that everything made in the good old days was top quality, it ain't so and it never was.

Steve

I don't think I've ever read that perspective before and it's excellent. The second part I put in bold has never been truer.

 

[RalloZ35]

Good tools don't make a good mechanic.

 

[JoeFin]

Such a stupid thread. I have everything from top brands to off brands in the shop and I am just fine with HF if it serves it purpose well. Had a Bridgeport mill and Logan Lathe. Now have a HF mini lathe/mill and for 13% of the investment and 10% of the space it does 90% of what I wanted from the bigger stuff so it makes sense for me.

Honestly ???

 

[JoeFin]

You go ahead and pay for the pretty name stamped on your tool. I'll get a lot more done with my truck load.


BTW, most of my tools are Craftsman and Gearwrench. The rest are Blackhawk, SK, Stanley, EZ-Red, OTC, and some HF

Well there is the rub - I don't pay a lot for my tools - but I shop quality when I do.

If you read my post I've said quite clearly I own very little SnapOn and SK, yet everyone seeking to label me a troll insisted in using the cost comparison of Snap On to justify purchasing Happy Fart.

I like the feel and fit of Craftsman Industrial and the majority of my mechanics tools ARE Craftsman Industrial

As for Happy Fart Machine Tools - I looked at their Mini-lathe and laughed. Worth scrap metal prices at best. Every moving part had ludicrous amounts of run out and end play. An utter joke.

Some folk like the Jet 4 x 7 Horizontal Bandsaw. I believe Happy Fart sells the rejects not accepted by Jet as I've been told. No possible way that saw could cut a 1" x 1" piece of bar stock within .100" and all that waste now needs to be cleaned up while using up the life span of end mills costing between $30 - $65

Gee Wiz - some one "Saved A Boat Load of Money there"

I have the Jet (because it is "portable") and it is only used for cutting tube stock for welding where .125" can be filled with bead.

 

[KZ1000J]

I bought a 4 in. grinder from HF and had to return it. The second one had the same problem...I returned it and asked for my $$ back. A few years later I bought a $19.99 trim router from HF and have been really pleased with it. Both of these purchases were for one time projects where I did not want to spend a lot of $$. HF is good for some things, Northern Tool is like HF on steroids...I'd rather shop there. High quality, used might be the best alternative, I have lots of these and lately I've leaned in this direction when needing a tool. Tools last and no need to buy new.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Some folk like the Jet 4 x 7 Horizontal Bandsaw. I believe Happy Fart sells the rejects not accepted by Jet as I've been told. No possible way that saw could cut a 1" x 1" piece of bar stock within .100" and all that waste now needs to be cleaned up while using up the life span of end mills costing between $30 - $65

Gee Wiz - some one "Saved A Boat Load of Money there"

I have the Jet (because it is "portable") and it is only used for cutting tube stock for welding where .125" can be filled with bead.

I have a HF 7 X 12 band saw that I use to cut heavy bars with, I just cut 2-24 foot long 3" in 4140 HR bars. In these cuts were 11- 3 1/2" riser blocks for my surface grinder. After I faced them on one side I locked the carriage and used the compound to square the other side. I had less than .020 from shortest to longest. I didn't bother checking the out of squareness but a quick glance with a combo square (hardened Forged Starrett) it looked like less than 10 degrees closer to 6~7 really.

I have three Monarch lathes an inch metric 10EE with a long bed, a 13EE with a long bed and, 2013X102 Series 62. I have three K&T milling machines a 320TF17, a S310-15 universal and, a 2H. I have a DoAll 1612-3 hydraulic saw, Miller Dynasty 300 DX, I could go on and on. As I said in my other post I am a tool snob. Yet I still find HF useful and with things that work well for little outlay. I was all set to buy a double column horizontal band saw with all the bells and whistles, I would never use the features that made it so desirable! I bought a HF 50 ton H frame press, I really want to build a 100 ton but, for less than a grand it has been a stellar performer. Even a snob can appreciate good value.

Steve

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

 

[nicksnothereman]

This has been bugging me for quite some time here at GJ

Why would anyone spending exorbitant amounts of money, time, and effort building their Dream Garage turn around and then go fill it with bunch of cheap single use junk from Happy Fart

Doesn't make a lick of sense to me

Because they're posers.

Oh wait. I got a decent amount of the stuff, pretty good but depends on what you buy. If you got a lot of matco or gearwrench you may never complain about harbor freight...NEVER! It is written in stone.

The truth is that they probably don't need heavy use tools so spend the money on other stuff...or don't use tools at all. Do rich people work on their own cars/build project cars? I don't know but I don't think so. Might just be for show.

 

[back2class]

Honestly ???

LOL. Yes. Well, maybe 80%. Mostly I miss being able to cut threads. Never said it would do 90% of what those tools would do. But for the basic stuff I do it is ok. I am no machinist, and if I do get into that stuff more, then I will upgrade again. If money and space were no object I would buy them back. But for the once every two years I now need to use a machinist and pay him $50, the reality is having them instead of my POS unit would be foolish. Nevermind that the cost of tooling had made it cheaper to use a professional machinist sometimes even when I did have the all that stuff.

 

[ATC]

Well there is the rub - I don't pay a lot for my tools - but I shop quality when I do.

If you read my post I've said quite clearly I own very little SnapOn and SK, yet everyone seeking to label me a troll insisted in using the cost comparison of Snap On to justify purchasing Happy Fart.

I like the feel and fit of Craftsman Industrial and the majority of my mechanics tools ARE Craftsman Industrial

As for Happy Fart Machine Tools - I looked at their Mini-lathe and laughed. Worth scrap metal prices at best. Every moving part had ludicrous amounts of run out and end play. An utter joke.

Some folk like the Jet 4 x 7 Horizontal Bandsaw. I believe Happy Fart sells the rejects not accepted by Jet as I've been told. No possible way that saw could cut a 1" x 1" piece of bar stock within .100" and all that waste now needs to be cleaned up while using up the life span of end mills costing between $30 - $65

Gee Wiz - some one "Saved A Boat Load of Money there"

I have the Jet (because it is "portable") and it is only used for cutting tube stock for welding where .125" can be filled with bead.

Now, I never said anything about HF's electric tools. I won't touch them with a 10' pole. My rule is...if it has more than a few moving parts, is a precision instrument, or has a cord...I stay away from it.

I work a weird shift, so yard sales and estate sales and auctions are out for me. Auction sites with tool listings usually get bid up to over what a new item from Cman/GW etc. would be...so I don't bother with them either.

In my special world, I am focused on new vs. new. If you can go to that estate auction on Tuesday at 9am and get a S-O socket set for $10...good for you. I can't.

 

[oldjamesy]

The people who I have dealt with that complain about import quality are the first to back down when faced with the prospect of spending real money on USA made .

HF may not be the best overall , but it's the best for the money .

For the record , I'm about 90% USA made and 10% Import including but not limited to HF .

 

[95riosnake]

I don't have a 40k garage by a long shot, but even still the only HF items I own are nitrile gloves, bulk packs of zip ties, and a $30 belt sander that I've used twice, lol.

As others have said, to each his own. It's like people that buy expensive wheels then put junk Sumitomo or other **** brand tires on them... not how I'd do it but it's a free country right? lol

EDIT: Oh and I also have a HF welding cart for my Miller. I just got in some stock of 2 x 2 x 1/8 wall square tubing so I'll be building a proper cart and sending the HF cart on its way.

 

[gaston9mm]

not my monkey nor my circus, why should I care what the next guy has or does with his money. I only need to worry about me.

 

[Lexus]

Well Joe, your first problem is that you think your happy farts are hand tools. Remember happy farts are limited to giggles and smelling bad.

As far as Harbor Freight on the other hand, just because a lathe does not meet your standard as a lathe doesnt mean that all the tools there are junk.

 

[sberry]

I really never had anything I regretted buying there. Its so cheap its hard to feel like you got robbed. The stuff has got better. Its hard to build a cylinder leakage tester for that cost even if you have most of it for free.
The 50$ battery load tester earns its keep near every time I use it. Cant buy the clamps, the leads, the meters the resistor, none of it for 50$ all painted up ready to work.
The cheap 4 1/2 grinder they have is hit and miss and for another 10 or 20 you can make it a sure bet with good working power, not worth it to cheap out on 10$ but it isn't going to help me to spend 400 on a tester, would probably do without but for cheap I loved it the day I got it and wished I would have done it sooner.

How is that for a statement. Never bought anything memorable there I didn't regret not buying sooner.

 

[sberry]

When I was tooling up added a set or 2 of adjustables and bought some ATD off the shelf for convenience. 20 years later they have blended in and no one knows the difference and the ATD are as good as any I have ever used and in fact like them better and if I got to go with only one its in my truck.
It was already headed to the world market minus a brand name, got plucked off the line and inked ATD on it and shoved down a different sales avenue, the others on the line got a brand and sold elsewhere.

 

[abvw]

If you can survive on only bread and water, why do you choose to have steak?

"I fixed my IKEA furniture using a $0.25 socket, it did the job perfectly so I can expect the same results when working on a rusty 8-ton truck for a living". Yes, in theory it can.

"Cheap tools work the same as expensive ones, and I also get lifetime warranty for as long as I don't lose it, and even if I do lose it, it is cheap to replace". These are the type of assholes who'd leave their tools in your car after a repair, simply because their tools are too cheap to be worth retrieving. Messy, lazy, disorganized, unprofessional hacks.

 

[Beemer533]

.....

"Cheap tools work the same as expensive ones, and I also get lifetime warranty for as long as I don't lose it, and even if I do lose it, it is cheap to replace". These are the type of assholes who'd leave their tools in your car after a repair, simply because their tools are too cheap to be worth retrieving. Messy, lazy, disorganized, unprofessional hacks.

Wow. Some serious hate for those that use HF stuff...

I will admit to preferring "brand name tools" but putting down my Klein screwdriver and picking up a HF screwdriver doesn't turn me into a "lazy, unprofessional hack"..

And I don't need HF tools to be messy; I do just fine being messy with my expensive stuff

 

[89GLH]

Look at the white collar working man in here, bragging about buying name brand expensive tools! Troll this stupid $hit somewhere else.

 

[ganymede]

...... .. .

 

[thetool]

I really wish I could afford to buy snap-on, and Proto and other brand name tools, but when 1 tool costs more than my bi-weekly paycheck its totally out of the running for consideration.

start going to garage sales and swap meets, my best find so far was a snapon 1/2" drive ratchet for 3 dollars , i refuse to buy anything from harbor junk.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

Shot milk out my nose with that one.

To many folks here who think I'm trolling - well that is up to you

But to me it is very telling of the quality of your workmanship. You don't mind cheap low budget ineffective tools lining the insides of your garage - then perhaps one should look at the quality of your construction methods building your garage too.

250K - 500K "Tumble Down Shack" construction methods line the hills and mountains around Northern Cali. In fact one of my sons makes quite a good living doing insurance work, repairing homes that sell in High 6 figures.

Don't ever presume to judge the quality of someone's work without seeing it.

I have known people who have the best of everything, but lack quality of character. I also know people who have expensive educations, but have heads filled with poor notions. I strive not to be one of them.

 

[laser3kw]

In fact one of my sons makes quite a good living doing insurance work, repairing homes that sell in High 6 figures

let me guess - his name is Mike Holmes....

 

[venturesomerite]

Not how much it cost, it's what you do with it.


I've seen a build thread that some people in thailand build a motorcycle chassis using a very basic tube bender and stick welder, and I couldn't touch the results. He did it in a dirt floor hut.

 

[volleyball]

For a lot of the snobs, you really should use HF tools, that way you have an excuse for the **** work produced. When you use a very expensive tool, who do you have to blame? the dog?

 

[Beemer533]

Look at the white collar working man in here, bragging about buying name brand expensive tools! Troll this stupid $hit somewhere else.

Not sure if this was directed at me, but that is not how I intended my post to sound... I guess sarcasm doesn't show up well online!

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Some don't want to spend the money
Some don't have the money
Some want the best
Some want the cheapest
Some don't know the difference
Some have denial of any difference
Some are flamed by thought of cheap stuff
Some are flamed by those who are flamed

Put all of them in a large kettle and stir; You get a Garage Journal Forum

Some will be able to swallow it
Some will not