How hard to weld aluminum?

[atikovi]

I bought a mig welder over 5 years and maybe have used it 3 times since for minor mickey mouse repairs on steel. Now I have an aluminum oil pan with about a 2 inch crack. How hard would it be to repair by someone with basically no welding experience? And what else besides a roll of aluminum wire do I need?

 

[tractordude]

You will need a spool gun and 100% argon gas

 

[srmofo]

A spoil gun

 

[zkling]

You will be money, time and patience ahead to pay someone already equipped to do this one. But for posterity sake, what machine do you have?

 

[Ruger_556]

I bought a mig welder over 5 years and maybe have used it 3 times since for minor mickey mouse repairs on steel. Now I have an aluminum oil pan with about a 2 inch crack. How hard would it be to repair by someone with basically no welding experience? And what else besides a roll of aluminum wire do I need?

Difficult, and it will probably leak when you're done. Better to pay someone to do that. I've been welding for years and I don't like MIG on aluminum at all...

 

[atikovi]

But for posterity sake, what machine do you have?

Lincoln SP-135T

 

[atikovi]

And I see in this video:

guy using regular gun but with a plastic liner. The work piece demo is pretty much what I envision I need to fix the crack. So what would a shop charge for 10 seconds of work?

 

[619DioFan]

JB weld it.

 

[devoncoolman]

You would be way ahead to pay somebody. Mig welding aluminum is a pain. You would have to atleast buy a teflon liner for your whip. You will need a bigger tip. A roll of aluminum wire. Typically you need to switch to serated rollers in the machine and will also need a new bottle and 100% argon gas.

The gist is take it to a welding shop and pay them to tig weld it. Clean the pan very good and try to get all the oil out of it. Problem with aluminum is especially with cast aluminum is its super porus. Even if u get it super clean when u weld it the oil thats trapped in thd pores will bleed out and contaminate the weld.

 

[atikovi]

JB weld it.

Seriously?

 

[bobcatdan]

Seriously?

Actually it works pretty good. I have fixed a numbers of cracked small engine blocks and never had an oil leak.

 

[JDon99]

So what would a shop charge for 10 seconds of work?

A repair like that is going to take ALOT longer than 10 seconds. The pan will have to be cleaned very well and it will have to be TIG welded
(at least I would imagine any shop would tig it over mig). Like someone has already said, cast aluminum is very porous and is has to be very clean to prevent contamination of the weld.

 

[zkling]

Lincoln SP-135T

Even then that machine is marginal at best to do the job at hand.

And I see in this video:

guy using regular gun but with a plastic liner. The work piece demo is pretty much what I envision I need to fix the crack. So what would a shop charge for 10 seconds of work?

The fact that you think it takes 10 seconds of work just shows how little you know going in. I usually charge between $20 on up for cracked aluminum cases depending on how clean, how large and what all is missing. Most averaging in the $40-50 range. I deal with folks that share you attitude all the time. "Hey it only takes a few seconds, why the high charge". Well consider this you are requiring my knowledge, experience, materials, consumables, few $K in welding equipment and the liability if something goes wrong that you will come back complaining.

Where is the crack?

 

[atikovi]

Actually it works pretty good. I have fixed a numbers of cracked small engine blocks and never had an oil leak.

An engine block with occasional splash oil contact is a little different from an oil pan that would be totally immersed in hot oil 100% of the time.

 

[devoncoolman]

If that worried buy a new one.

 

[Banjorear]

Actually it works pretty good. I have fixed a numbers of cracked small engine blocks and never had an oil leak.

We use it all the time to repair rust pits in the cylinders of old hit & miss motors. Works great.

 

[PelicanPines]

alumalloy?

 

[Virgil Cain]

You'd want to thoroughly clean it, bake it out in an oven, then clean it again. And it will probably still have enough oil in the pores to cause you some issues welding it up.

How much is a new pan?

 

[MikeF2316]

It's pretty much a guaranty that you will wreck the first aluminum anything you try to weld, no matter what it is and no matter what method you use.

Ask me how I know.

 

[pipehack]

I'm with everyone on this one. Take it to a shop or buy a new pan. That MiG welder you have is very marginal. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not that great either. Never ever forget about O/A welding. It's been done for a long time and it's still good.

 

[bobcatdan]

An engine block with occasional splash oil contact is a little different from an oil pan that would be totally immersed in hot oil 100% of the time.

Ye of little faith.

 

[wyo george]

JB will work, we've used it on motorcycles that cracked cases out on the trail and years later they still held oil just fine.

Still, as mentioned already you're not going to have good results welding it. I'd even be worried welding it with my TIG just because of unknown alloy and contaminants. Plus, aluminum is a giant heat sink do it'll take a powerful machine to burn in good. More than your average hobbiest welder.


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[atikovi]

OK JB it is.

 

[FriendOfYours]

I've JB welded plenty of cracked pans out in the dirt

I would also say that you can MIG it no problem. You don't need a teflon liner or a spool gun

Way back before we got our TIGs I'd run aluminum on our 252 MIG with a steel liner all day. Just set up some stands to hold the whip perfectly straight and weld away. You want the rollers as loose as you can get them to keep from birdnesting

 

[Modern Jess]

It's pretty much a guaranty that you will wreck the first aluminum anything you try to weld, no matter what it is and no matter what method you use.

^^^ This ^^^

 

[wafrederick]

Practice first using scrap aluminum.Another option would be take it some place that has a tig welder.JB weld does not work most of the time on oil pans.Have seen this on steel Ford oil pans that are rusted out.

 

[theknurl]

The fact that you think it takes 10 seconds of work just shows how little you know going in. I usually charge between $20 on up for cracked aluminum cases depending on how clean, how large and what all is missing. Most averaging in the $40-50 range. I deal with folks that share your attitude all the time. "Hey it only takes a few seconds, why the high charge". Well consider this you are requiring my knowledge, experience, materials, consumables, few $K in welding equipment and the liability if something goes wrong that you will come back complaining.

Amen zkling!!!

OK, keyboard welding geniuses..... this is how its done

groove the crack with a carbide burr, in a die grinder on both sides

rinse with lacquer thinner both sides, blow the chips away with an air hose

weld the inside 1st.....notice I didn't say preheat? thats why TIG machines have pedals

now with a die grinder with a SS brush clean all the smegma that came out of the casting....if you need to use the grinder with the burr...use it

now make it pretty on the outside

YES, they MIG aluminum but NOT with box store welders and spool guns

my buddy Josh, the trap shooter, was building bows of aluminum hulled boats out of 2 INCH formed plate and a center insert...

spool gun???? what? change the spool every 3-5 minutes?

NO, a push/pull gun and a 350Amp machine......and a different MIG process too

next project......weld the top of a BMW R1000 4 cylinder case back on, the top engine mounts and the oil pressure relief gallery are broken loose.....

no problem

 

[atikovi]

What about Lab-Metal? http://www.alvinproducts.com/Products/Products.asp?ID=1

 

[FriendOfYours]

Amen zkling!!!

OK, keyboard welding geniuses..... this is how its done

groove the crack with a carbide burr, in a die grinder on both sides

rinse with lacquer thinner both sides, blow the chips away with an air hose

weld the inside 1st.....notice I didn't say preheat? thats why TIG machines have pedals

now with a die grinder with a SS brush clean all the smegma that came out of the casting....if you need to use the grinder with the burr...use it

now make it pretty on the outside

YES, they MIG aluminum but NOT with box store welders and spool guns

my buddy Josh, the trap shooter, was building bows of aluminum hulled boats out of 2 INCH formed plate and a center insert...

spool gun???? what? change the spool every 3-5 minutes?

NO, a push/pull gun and a 350Amp machine......and a different MIG process too

next project......weld the top of a BMW R1000 4 cylinder case back on, the top engine mounts and the oil pressure relief gallery are broken loose.....

no problem

Wow, there is so much wrong with this

Never use a stainless brush on a die grinder. You can embed material into the aluminum. And I would use a man eater to cut out the groove before using a carbide bit any day. The brush is for removing oxidation on the surface, you don't need to brush a freshly grooved joint, just the outside area

This is a crack in 1/8" material. Why would he need to do multiple passes?

If he wants to MIG with his machine he very well may need to preheat

And what does building boats with push/pull have anything to do with this? I built the backbones for the coast guard on the RB-Ms. Thousands of feet of wire over my 3 years there with my 350MP

I can make a bead with 180 amps and a spool gun that'll make you wet your pants

 

[theknurl]

FriendOfYours;
after welding for 59 years I've figured a few things out....

stainless is harder than aluminum, it won't contaminate the material neither will the carbide burr

you do passes on both sides, after the inside pass any oil in the casting will migrate to the outside it must be cleaned again remember there is molten aluminum, oil and no Argon on the outside....its messy,
clean it

my mentor Jack Sanderson was at Northrop when Heliarc was invented

Lincoln wound their machines (5) to his specs for him

I listened to Jack

I also listen to John.....he welded the Hubble Telescope

between those 2 just about every problem welding job was done in the US for the last ~80 years

they both use stainless brushes in die grinders and lacquer thinner

you do whatever you want

 

[Rookie2]

alumalloy?

yes works well !

 

[cbogg]

It's like brain surgery. Anyone can do it. But it costs a lot for someone who knows what they're doing. There's a reason why there aren't chain aluminum welding places in every strip mall, JiffyWeld perhaps? Any local machine shop should be able to help you with this. If all else fails, call your local Napa, bunch around here have independent machine shops on site.

 

[FriendOfYours]

All I read was someone else did this or that

This is not structural, it is an oil pan. One pass is fine

I'd bet my 16 years of welding with Genie, Kvichak and Bendix over whatever second hand experience you have

 

[Ruger_556]

I love it when people start arguing on the internet, pretty soon out come the credentials, years experience working, and yet... They still don't know what they're talking about!

Especially when people start talking about mil-spec, this is how we do it on planes etc... It almost never has anything to do with the subject at hand. But, do please continue

 

[zkling]

It's like brain surgery. Anyone can do it. But it costs a lot for someone who knows what they're doing. There's a reason why there aren't chain aluminum welding places in every strip mall, JiffyWeld perhaps? Any local machine shop should be able to help you with this. If all else fails, call your local Napa, bunch around here have independent machine shops on site.

Shhhh, that is my secret business plan.

 

[Major Ramifications]

Those brazing type rods for aluminum would work fine on this. Also, JB Weld would be fine as long as it us used properly.

 

[atikovi]

Someone tells me the pan is magnesium. Makes a difference in welding I would assume.

 

[Rawlins87]

Jb weld will work. Did this to my last oil pan.

 

[MagnumForce]

Magnesium? For the love of God don't catch it on fire.

 

[benjamintmiller]

JB Weld is by far the best suggestion here.

Here are the steps for a lasting repair:
- Clean up the area with a Dremel or die grinder
- Stop drill the ends of the crack so it won't propagate further
- Clean thoroughly with solvent. Do not use mineral spirits.
- Apply JB Weld to one or both sides
- Shape cured JB Weld with sanding disc in Dremel if needed

I filled in a penny-sized hole on an engine block with this procedure, and it's still holding years later.

And as to the airplane mil spec blah blah, I installed a heater on my aluminum airplane oil pan earlier this year, and what is the FAA recommended epoxy? JB-Weld!