contractorlighting.com bait and switch

[ManCave]

I purchased 28 of of these lights from contractorlighting.com Specifically, the 20-DC4-296-120 with the phillips advance ICN-4P32-SC ballast.

They shipped me 28 of the 10-DC4-296-120 with a Triad ballast B432IUNVHP-A ballast.

If I search google for the Triad ballast I find 7 results. Versus 146,000 results for the phillips ballast. If you were to guess, which of the two ballasts might be the better one? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the name brand is probably better made and certainly easier to find and replace if one fails.

The light I ordered was a $46 light and they were going to throw in the bulbs for free. The light they shipped was a $38 light so they added in a fee for the bulbs to make the price come up to the dollar amount that I paid for the $46 light.

To say I am not happy is putting it mildly. I had today and tomorrow to install the lights. Now my whole weekend is screwed up.

 

[cybrdyke]

Deep breaths......deeeeep breaths.....
I am a Philips rep. I can tell you that Universal, who's brand name is Triad, is a worthy competitor and makes quality stuff. You're gonna be just fine...
CD
PS...thanks for the kind words about our stuff.

 

[ManCave]

Deep breaths......deeeeep breaths.....
I am a Philips rep. I can tell you that Universal, who's brand name is Triad, is a worthy competitor and makes quality stuff. You're gonna be just fine...
CD
PS...thanks for the kind words about our stuff.

Hi CD,

Thanks for weighing in. There are a number of issues. First, because there is no documentation anywhere to be found on the TRIAD ballast I don't know if its rated for surface mounting. I'm installing surface mounted lighting. Its supposedly a class "P" ballast (thermal protection).

Then because of the off-brand, I don't have any personal recommendations from people who have installed them and can tell me there aren't RFI issues that might affect wireless internet or radio reception. It does't say commercial or residential on the ballast and I can't find any other info on it.

Also, I was overcharged when they charged me $46 for a $38 dollar light.

Finally, I do not take kindly to a company thinking they can pull one over on me -- they should have contacted me first and discussed any change to the order before shipping it to me. These came on an 8 foot pallet and I'm not repacking it and loading it on the truck for return for free. So we're going to have a little talk on Monday when they open.

 

[mmack66]

Doesn't sound like bait-and-switch, but they clearly screwed up your order.

What did they say when you contacted them?

 

[justsam]

Sounds like "Bait and Switch" to me.

The ad for the lights clearly states as one of the features, that it has the Phillips ballast. If it is not important than why is it a designated feature.

Add to that the idea that they did not provide free bulbs as it appears they had indicated and to me it goes beyond "bait and switch".

If it is "just" an order screw up than certainly they should pay for reverse shipping and your cost of repacking.

 

[ManCave]

Doesn't sound like bait-and-switch, but they clearly screwed up your order.

What did they say when you contacted them?

If they revised the invoice to reflect the fact they were shipping a cheaper light they knew what they were doing. I'd have viewed it differently had the invoice had the part number I ordered and they had merely put the wrong items on the pallet.

I just found out this morning when I was laying them out to install them. They are closed today.

 

[themiller]

Let us know how it goes. Looking over their site they sure seem to have nice prices, I have a few items to order...

 

[nehog]

Sounds like "Bait and Switch" to me. ...

"bait and switch" is where they advertise a high grade product for a low price, then when the customer attempts to buy the product, they are told that it is not available but that a different product at a higher price is.

The OP is not describing "bait and switch" IMHO, but is describing either an improper product substitution or a shipping error.

 

[ManCave]

Whatever you call it, it seriously pissed me off. It may be weeks before I'll have a window of time again where I could work on my lighting.

 

[ManCave]

So the story gets better. Turns out I have a couple of Sylvania ballasts, 2 different GE ballasts and a Triad ballast and so far I haven't seen the advertised phillips ballast. I've only opened 7 of the 28 boxes. 1 had the bolt missing from the ballast. Another the end plates with the knockouts were completely missing. So if you were buying from contractorlighting.com with the idea you're getting a better product (that's why I ordered) than from Home Depot or Lowes that's nonsense. See photo of the ballasts:

I've also attached a scan of the quote that I received when I purchased and the actual invoice I got with the shipment. Note that the invoice for the shipment showed the lights at $38 and says "lamps included for free" and they added a $225 charge for the "free lights" to bring the amount up to what I paid for the $46 lights.

After seeing all the different ballasts I've decided I'm going to run to home depot and pick up my lights and start installing them. At least with Home Depot's products the insides should match what is advertised.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I'm actually a little surprised their ad lists a specific brand and model number for the ballast - most light fixture manufacturers tend to treat the ballasts as commodities. They'll say it's going to be an electronic rapid start or whatever, but they buy them from various sources (probably based on price and availability) so the exact brand will be whatever they happen to have on hand when they assemble your particular fixtures.

I've never heard of this company before, but looking around their website I noticed a couple things - first of all, it says they are a retailer but there's no mention of manufacturing so I wonder who builds their fixtures. Secondly, there's no indication of where they are located, the only contact information I could find was a phone number and email address.

 

[cybrdyke]

1 had the bolt missing from the ballast.

That 'bolt' is actually a tek screw. It doesn't just hold the ballast in, it provides a necessary ground path between the ballast mounting foot and the fixture chassis.
CD

 

[nehog]

• Powder Coat Finish
• Please note Pricing does not include lamps.
• 4 per case

Just to be a jerk, I'll point out in their web page listing, the price is not with bulbs. And yes, I see their quote to you as well. I suspect someone at their end screwed up so they shipped you cheaper fixtures to allow for the cost of the bulbs.

But notice their enclosed invoice/packing slip says the bulbs are free. I'd simply call them up and tell them to give you back the $225 charge for the bulbs, and use the cheaper fixtures.

 

[ManCave]

Just to be a jerk, I'll point out in their web page listing, the price is not with bulbs. And yes, I see their quote to you as well. I suspect someone at their end screwed up so they shipped you cheaper fixtures to allow for the cost of the bulbs.

But notice their enclosed invoice/packing slip says the bulbs are free. I'd simply call them up and tell them to give you back the $225 charge for the bulbs, and use the cheaper fixtures.

No. I did not ask for free bulbs. I called to order the requested unit and the sales guys said, "I'll even throw in the bulbs for free" The quote which he sent me before I approved payment listed the free bulbs. It was all on the up and up. No mistakes on that part.

The sales guy was great to work with. Very professional and helpful. I suspect after the sale other people got involved and that's when it all went south.

I went to Home Depot and bought my lights. They had them all loaded on a cart for me when I got there. If I find any with missing parts its a lot easier to run to Home Depot for an exchange then to wait days for this mail order place to send them. After my experience, I highly recommend people buy the fixtures from their local box store and only purchase the bulbs mail order.

 

[purplezr2]

No. I did not ask for free bulbs. I called to order the requested unit and the sales guys said, "I'll even throw in the bulbs for free" The quote which he sent me before I approved payment listed the free bulbs. It was all on the up and up. No mistakes on that part.

The sales guy was great to work with. Very professional and helpful. I suspect after the sale other people got involved and that's when it all went south.

I went to Home Depot and bought my lights. They had them all loaded on a cart for me when I got there. If I find any with missing parts its a lot easier to run to Home Depot for an exchange then to wait days for this mail order place to send them. After my experience, I highly recommend people buy the fixtures from their local box store and only purchase the bulbs mail order.

Or order with enough lead time that you have time if there are isssues. Some of us live hours from the closest big box store so ordering makes more sense. It is something you learn to do when you buy a lot of mail order stuff.

 

[brewchief]

They may have put a cost down for the bulbs so when ups or fedex smashes them you have a value to do a claim, trying to get money out of ups for "free" bulbs isn't going to happen.

 

[Bib Overalls]

it seriously pissed me off.

When s#!t like that happens to me I get raging bull ugly.

 

[PT Doc]

Very shady or very incompetent. Tell the to issue a call tag and get in back to them. Call the cc that you used and explain what happened. Amex would have your back from minute one.

 

[joeysh03]

So I change ballast all the time at work in 20+ year old fixtures. They are 4 bulb 4ft t8s. That triad ballast is what I see the most. The replacements that I order are the same as that GE ballast. One thing I noticed early on is that manufactures are making ballast smaller and lighter. Sounds like they shipped you some overstock fixtures. I would just keep them and ask for a refund or for them to send you all new matching ballast and you would send the ones you have back

 

[Morrison]

If you're not happy with what you have ship it all back to them and take your business somewhere else. I've ordered a few things online that were not as advertised.

 

[Speedy Petey]

Those are cheap fixtures to begin with. Why does it matter what ballasts are in them, as long as they are name brand....which they ARE.

At the same time, WHY buy something like this online??? I bet my supply houses are the same price, and they probably have them in stock.
What was the logic in buying them online?

 

[Speedy Petey]

Or a big box store even.
Here's the SAME fixture, for $6 less: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fluorescent%20strip?NCNI-5

I'd venture to bet you have a HD or Lowes within a reasonable driving distance.

 

[sublimate]

At least with Home Depot's products the insides should match what is advertised.

You must have a different kind of Home Depot where you live than we have here...

 

[tfi racing]

Nothing wrong with those Triad ballasts,but they stopped making them about seven years ago or so...

 

[mmack66]

Or a big box store even.
Here's the SAME fixture, for $6 less: http://www.homedepot.com/s/fluorescent%20strip?NCNI-5

I'd venture to bet you have a HD or Lowes within a reasonable driving distance.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4237727&postcount=14

 

[justsam]

I suspect at the end of the day, many of these ballasts are ALL made by the same Chinese company, who private labels for Philips, Triad, etc.

That being said, the ad went out of the way to boast of the ballasts by Philips, so they need to make it happen, and no you should not be the one burdened in any way by their error or deception as the case may be.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I like how the packing list shows the bulbs are listed at $1.80 ea/$225 total yet it says they are included at no charge.

I'd guess they were out of what you ordered and shipped what they had closest to what you ordered. They will try to credit you the $225 for the bulbs and attempt to make you happy.

 

[cybrdyke]

I suspect at the end of the day, many of these ballasts are ALL made by the same Chinese company, who private labels for Philips, Triad, etc.

Nope.

 

[ManCave]

The problem with installing lights with 6 or 8 different brands of ballast is if you end up with an RFI problem how do you know which brand is causing it? You would have to hold a radio up next to each light and listen for a change to find out which brand(s) were the problem. I'd rather have all the same brand and if I have a problem then replace all of them.

I know that down the road I'll have ballasts fail and will likely replace them with some other brand (whatever the store has on the shelf) but at least that way if an RFI problem appears I'll know it was the new ballast.

Home Depot had 27 of the 28 lights I needed and the clerk had them loaded on a cart and waiting for me when I showed up. I had to drive 25 minutes to a Home Depot that I normally don't go to because it had the largest stock. I picked up the other light at the Home Depot that I usually go to.

All of their lights had the same ballast. I found the lights were easier to assemble too.

The other thing I had noticed about the contractor lighting lights was not only were the ballasts different but the sockets into which the lights sit had different color centers. So it looks like these lights were assembled from whatever was cheap at the time.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The problem with installing lights with 6 or 8 different brands of ballast is if you end up with an RFI problem how do you know which brand is causing it? You would have to hold a radio up next to each light and listen for a change to find out which brand(s) were the problem. I'd rather have all the same brand and if I have a problem then replace all of them.

I know that down the road I'll have ballasts fail and will likely replace them with some other brand (whatever the store has on the shelf) but at least that way if an RFI problem appears I'll know it was the new ballast.

Home Depot had 27 of the 28 lights I needed and the clerk had them loaded on a cart and waiting for me when I showed up. I had to drive 25 minutes to a Home Depot that I normally don't go to because it had the largest stock. I picked up the other light at the Home Depot that I usually go to.

All of their lights had the same ballast. I found the lights were easier to assemble too.

The other thing I had noticed about the contractor lighting lights was not only were the ballasts different but the sockets into which the lights sit had different color centers. So it looks like these lights were assembled from whatever was cheap at the time.

So how often have you come across this issue (RFI problems)??
I have installed literally hundreds, if not thousands, of similar lights from strips, to wraps, to lay-ins, to troffers, in every place from mall stores with a couple hundred, to fast food, restaurants, super-pharmacies, to Mrs. Jones' basement and garage. Haven't had one complaint about RFI, even from a home installation.

 

[ManCave]

So how often have you come across this issue (RFI problems)??
I have installed literally hundreds, if not thousands, of similar lights from strips, to wraps, to lay-ins, to troffers, in every place from mall stores with a couple hundred, to fast food, restaurants, super-pharmacies, to Mrs. Jones' basement and garage. Haven't had one complaint about RFI, even from a home installation.

I haven't personally had problems in many, many years but if you read this forum you'll find a fair number of people reporting they had RFI problems with certain ballasts and lots of discussion about commercial vs residential rated ballasts and how that applies to RFI.

It may be RFI went away with electronic ballasts...I don't know. But if people here are relating they personally and recently experienced these problems I thought it wise to give them the benefit of a doubt.

Even beyond the RFI concern, cold starting and number of hours a ballast is rated to last would presumably be somewhat consistent when all your lights start off with the same brand and model ballast. I just don't like the idea of a new install having a pandora's box of different ballasts. Especially when you don't know if all the different brands are compatible with a surface mount installation and if they aren't might be subject to premature failure when surface mounted.

The lights I got from Home Depot all had the exact same ballast, came with instructions (not that I needed it) and literature and were all rated for surface mounting.

Also...this whole thing was a matter of principle too. Its not right to have a company advertise something as a feature of their product and use it to sell the product and then what they ship doesn't have that feature at all.

 

[cybrdyke]

You can rest assured that the ballasts will be fine with surface mounting.
CD

 

[ManCave]

Just an update.

So they are going to refund all my money. They asked me to tape the fixtures together in boxes of 4 and they would send UPS today to pick them up. I almost told them no way and they would need to pick up the pallet but decided to just do it and get it over with. So I taped up 7 bundles of 4 boxes (lots of fun). Then put the pallet out in the driveway for UPS to come and pick up their bundles.

Got a call late in the day from contractorlighting.com and now they've decided they will have the whole pallet picked up instead of bundles. They asked me to somehow fasten everything down to the pallet for shipping and said nobody will be here until tomorrow.

In all fairness, the sales guy I have been dealing with has been great. Its the stupid company that has major issues and those above him telling him what to pass on to me. Talk about a cluster f....

I noticed the contractorlighting.com domain is registered under a proxy so you can't see who owns it.