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Slab depth (future lift)?

Compressor

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I have plans showing a 4" fibermesh concrete slab. Wondering if that is sufficient for a maxjax lift? Should it be thicker? Is Fibermesh not a good idea?

Thanks for any advice.
 
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C96

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Follow the manufactures install procedure for the particular lift your going to install and confirm that with your local building department.
 

Iron Hoarder

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We put in two pads for our lift, 2ft square and 6 inches thick. No signs of cracking or sinking. That was with wire mesh re-enforcement and the same kind of concrete you are talking about. It was on top of 2 feet of packed limestone gravel. We poured the whole floor including pads in one go so they were essentially thick spots in the (4") floor. It's been 15 years. The lift has had full size trucks, 1957 Chevrolets you name it on it.
 
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wssix99

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I have plans showing a 4" fibermesh concrete slab. Wondering if that is sufficient for a maxjax lift? Should it be thicker? Is Fibermesh not a good idea?

Thanks for any advice.

Fibermesh could complicate coating the floor, depending if/how you want to do that. Many of us have learned that it pays off to plan for at least 1" more than you need to make sure you get the full depth in the normal variations that will occur. (So I'd recommend going to 5".) Even then, I'd recommend still overseeing the pour.
 

volleyball

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I would build it deeper where the jack would go. Think of like you would build a footer for a support post. The deeper it is, the longer bolts you can put in.
 

In My Garage

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I have plans showing a 4" fibermesh concrete slab.

The "plans" may show that but in reality, the floor ends up being thinner if someone else is doing the work.

I'd pour at least 6 inches of 32 mPa and be done with it.
 

PanelDeland

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I would go six also and confirm that it was that thick. Lots of concrete spec'ed at 4 only gets 3 or so.
 
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willymakeit

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If you know where you are going to mount the pads to the floor ,then put a 24''X24'' X12 '' extra footing under the slab in this location. Put a rebar mat in it also.
Use the fibermesh. You can torch it when the slab is dry or run a scrubber over it after the first coat of finish.
Above all follow or exceed the manufacturers recommendations.
 

DangerousDan55

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My buddy's instructions to his concrete guy was to have in the area of his lift was to be 6 inches thick.
His shop was 5 years old when he noticed a couple cracks at the base of his lift. He checked his mounting bolts and several would not tighten (slipping in the concrete)
So, he decided to remove the lift to re pour that area. What he found was the concrete was only 2-3 inches thick! Talk about PISSED OFF!!!!
So he cut out a 3' x 9', dug down for 12" depth & added even more rebar & tied it to the existing rebar.
Not one bit of trouble since.
 
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Compressor

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Thanks for all the info, appreciate it. Will watch it closely.

It seems like from research that all fibermesh does is helping during the curing process but it seems a lot of builders replace rebar with fibermesh?
 

wssix99

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If you know where you are going to mount the pads to the floor ,then put a 24''X24'' X12 '' extra footing under the slab in this location.

This is a bad idea.

Put a rebar mat in it also.

This makes it worse.

A car lift does not need a footing at all. The base plates are designed so the pressure of the loaded lift is comparable to your car being parked normal on the floor. This is easy to calculate - take the weight of the vehicle and divided it by the sum of all your tire's contact patches. Then take the sum of the vehicle and lift weight and divide by the area of the base plates. Both should be comparable and a small fraction of the slab's ultimate strength.

Pouring an integral footer creates a situation where the concrete will crack at the point where the footer joins the slab - particularly if reinforcing is used. The reinforcing resists shrinkage in the slab. The thicker footing has less effective reinforcement than the slab, so they will differentially shrink and crack.

If a footing must be used, it should be isolated (expansion joint, etc.) from the slab and then pinned or keyed to the slab. This will keep problematic cracks from forming in bad places, although the slab will probably have small hairline/cosmetic cracks radiating diagonally from the corners that surround the footer. (Because a re-entrant corner has been created.)

A flat slab (as the lift manufacturer recommends) will give you a clean finish as long as you space your control joints correctly.


That being said, there is also something to be said about making sure you have sufficient depth for anchor bolts. Some people will gradually thicken the slab leading up to the footer locations. This should help control any differential shrinkage cracking and get you additional anchoring depth, but it will work best if you are using minimal reinforcement.


It seems like from research that all fibermesh does is helping during the curing process but it seems a lot of builders replace rebar with fibermesh?

Fibers are not a replacement for reinforcing and only control small cosmetic shrinkage cracks. (Not the larger shrinkage cracking that your saw cut joints control and reinforcement.)

The choice for fiber mesh should hinge on how you plan to finish (or keep the floor unfinished.)
 

volleyball

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I don't get the bad idea. This is done all the time for support columns. Yeah they support a lot more weight, but they are not subjected to the same torque that a 2 post lift would have.
I looked at the mfg spec page and it is a joke. They don't talk about torque, they think it is all dead weight. They talk about installation and how they calculated it but no mention of actual dimensions. A 6" tapcon is going to be able to hold more than a 3" tapcon. What happens when you drop a large weight off of one side, like removing the engine/trans assy.? The few lifts I know had bolts buried in the wet concrete with a piece of plywood that matched the lift base plate to make sure it was secure.
 

WNYflyer

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A car lift does not need a footing at all. The base plates are designed so the pressure of the loaded lift is comparable to your car being parked normal on the floor. This is easy to calculate - take the weight of the vehicle and divided it by the sum of all your tire's contact patches. Then take the sum of the vehicle and lift weight and divide by the area of the base plates. Both should be comparable and a small fraction of the slab's ultimate strength.

This is essentially true for a 4-post lift but for a 2 post lift without a stablizing beam across the top or bottom this not true. For the 2 post types mentioned above the designers assume an allowable concrete bearing stress/pressure at the toe of the base plate of better than 35% of the concrete strength typically. 35 % of 3000 psi concrete equals about 1050 psi or so. The high stress comes from the overturning moment or torque as someone else described it.

In the maxjax specifications they have a description of the anchor bolt/base plate calculation to resist the overturning moment or torque if you will. Of course the steel may be great, the anchor bolts plently strong but it is all only as good as what it is connected to, i.e. the concrete.

If you have overturning moments/torque then your slab has to be checked/designed as a footing to resist those loads
 

rcalmus

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6 inch floor. Fiber is poor replacement for rebar. If you are living in place where you don't have a freeze/thaw cycle you might get by with just fiber. We have one pad that doesn't have bar and after one cyle the control cracks opened up to over 1/2 inch.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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wssix99

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I don't get the bad idea. This is done all the time for support columns. Yeah they support a lot more weight, but they are not subjected to the same torque that a 2 post lift would have.

You are right on. It's all about that moment around the base with regard to limiting design factors. The side-to-side resistance is important, but the front to back moments are potentially greater. (Vehicles are typically balanced well side-to-side but not front to back. Likewise, its more challenging to balance the load on a two post lift front-to-back.

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^ The flat slab, bolted to the posts, creates an inverted "T", which gives you the resistance to the tipping forces. (The slab acts in the same way side-to-side.)

A shallow footer (a few feet) would give you much less resistance to that tipping, depending on the base/soil properties and how deep the footing is. (This is why engineers and the manufacturers will specify that any footings need to be pinned or keyed to the slab.)

You could do a deep footing to resist the tipping, but you'd have to sink the thing deep like a telephone pole.



I looked at the mfg spec page and it is a joke. They don't talk about torque, they think it is all dead weight. They talk about installation and how they calculated it but no mention of actual dimensions. A 6" tapcon is going to be able to hold more than a 3" tapcon. What happens when you drop a large weight off of one side, like removing the engine/trans assy.? The few lifts I know had bolts buried in the wet concrete with a piece of plywood that matched the lift base plate to make sure it was secure.

Yea, all the ones I've seen give a few spec's for a flat slab (which has a lot of capacity to resist the tipping loads) and then pages on C-Y-A information related to what the actual lift can handle. Very little attention seems to be paid to what-if's around attachment or if slabs are too thin. I think I did see a bunch of disclaimers in some Bend Pak instructions regarding shifting loads, removing engines, etc. I recall they also suggested that the ends of the car be supported by posts, transmission jacks, etc. - that's what I would do for sure on a 2 post lift. (I'm allergic to cars falling on me.)


This is essentially true for a 4-post lift but for a 2 post lift without a stablizing beam across the top or bottom this not true.

I expect the tipping moments front-to-back for an off-balanced load would be a lot greater than the side-to-side ones.

My comments around not needing a footer are aimed at new construction. When a slab is properly poured, footers don't buy us anything and can lead to more cracking in the slab. If done improperly, they can also make the situation unsafe.

Lots of folks have a need for footers in a remodeling situation to address attachment/depth issues, but when done properly, they are typically pinned or keyed to the larger slab. (Some unkeyed/unpinned shallow or small footprint footers could resist the tipping moments, but that depends a lot on the base/soil properties. At that point you'd spend crazy amounts of money on soil testing and engineering to know if the arrangement would act properly.)
 
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