Polisher/Buffer

[PEBCPA]

Hi All,

I need to purchase a decent quality polisher/buffer to detail the cars. Any suggestions? What size pads work the best? I heard and read that many of the auto-specific buffers (eg Craftsman & Black & Decker) are junk.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

P

 

[HandyManny]

Lot's people say that about Craftsman or B&D simply because of the name. Anything but the most overpriced stuff isn't worth anything in their mind. Never used one, so can't say for sure. Try one out you might be surprised. Or ask someone who works at a autobody detailing shop, hear what they have to say.

 

[jerry j]

P ? ?

I just recently bot a Makita Model # 9227CX3 through Amazon..

Great buffer / polisher. Check it out on amazon.com ..

Jerry..

 

[Monte]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19181&highlight=polisher

 

[BUBJEL]

Get the Makita; it is a great buffer; the only thing you will replace is the cord; Now question for you how is the harbor freight version for periodic use.

 

[Chris Adams]

Do some online research.
Porter Cable is the most popular tool.
You can buy them with all the detailing gear for around 200-250, or you can buy one at Lowe's etc. for about 100, then buy the accessories.
I did it that way, have maybe 160 in the PC, the Velcro pads, etc.
Works fantastic.

Anyone can use a Porter Cable 7424 and never ruin any paint.

As is often mentioned a rotary buffers main use is burning paint.
You see guys in body shops with years of experience ruin paint on a regular basis. They don’t care much, they can respray the damage and speed is essential, so if they do damage it, so what?
The PC, with the right pads, is awesome for scratch removal, bringing up the paint, waxing and buffing out.

 

[DHCrocks]

Flex XC3401 VRG is a great DA polisher a beginner can use it without worrying about damaging the paint. got lots of power and has good cutting ability with the right pads. It's a bit on the pricey side but it's worth every penny. it's also smoother then the cheaper units. The flex uses 6" pads and has enough power for it so polishing goes fairly quickly. Get yourself an assortment of pads I use Lake Country pads.
Yellow is for heavy cutting
Orange is cutting (typically used to correct paint)
Green and White for polishing
Blue for finishing and applying waxes

The Porter Cable has been the standard for a long time, and is a good machine but the Flex will out perform it and has less vibration. If you're going to be getting into it, I would suggest you just get the Flex, it'll save you money in the long run as it seems like people are upgrading from the PC to the Flex eventually.

 

[BUBJEL]

I've read a lot about the Porter Cable polishers, never used one; ben buffing with my Makita for years; never burnt through unless it was new paint that I might not had enough clear on;

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

If you are a new user to running a polisher, the Porter Cable 7424 would be the best bet. It's a little slower than others to correct your paint but very forgiving of an inexperienced user. A step up from the PC but still a random orbit (and relatively safe) would be a Flex polisher.

If you are comfortable with a rotary, I prefer the Makita 9227 or if you want a "built like a tank" polisher, go with a DeWalt 849.

For fast correction work, use a wool pad and for more finesse try a foam pad. They will come in different grades, as will the polishes. Everyone has their favorites but I like Menzerna, 3M and Poor Boys (also Meguiars 105 for heavy cutting) polishes and edge foam or 3M wool pads.

Be forewarned that getting into detailing is even more addictive than buying tools. You realize how crazy you have become when you turn around and figure out you have more money in waxes on the shelf than your first car cost.

 

[RAYJAY]

a great site for detailing is

http://www.detailcity.org/

if you never buffed a car before i would start off with the PC

myself i use the PC more than my Makita rotary to me lakes pads are the best, and i for the most part used poorboys stuff good cost and it works great

jeff

 

[jshillin]

I see a couple good suggestions above. What car are you polishing? Is this going to be a once a year thing on one care or are you planning to use it a lot? What is your price range?

 

[mikeatrpi]

I have the harbor freight orange special, the sander / buffer. I used it after I wet sanded my car after I painted it. It worked pretty well, as far as I could tell, though it got pretty heavy after a while of holding it. Since then I've used it once a year with less aggressive compounds and also as a sander. It was worth the $30 or so. I spent another $60 in pads and compounds however...

 

[Islands62]

I've been using a PC7424 for about 8 years now without a hitch. Last year I replaced the power cable which had worn though from all the back and forth motions. As above, Menzerna is a terrific quality family of polishes and I use it and exclusively...but 3M stuff is also pretty good. The 10 year old old swirl free black paint below is a concours winner and testament to the abilities of the PC!

 

[Vinko]

Anyone can use a Porter Cable 7424 and never ruin any paint.

That's good to know. Is it worth trying to find an older PC 7424 (or equiv. model no.), or are the new ones made as well as they once were?

Speaking of paint, I was looking at the paint on some older Mercedes from the 70's and I was truly amazed with how nice it seemed compared to the newer cars you see.

Is it just me and my nostalgia or is paint getting crappy on a lot of cars compared to what it once was?

 

[Vinko]

and has good cutting ability with the right pads

What do you mean by "cutting ability"?

 

[jshillin]

Pads have different cuts. It usually goes, Yellow, Orange, White, Blue/Black, Red with Yellow being the most cut and blue/black and red being no cut. Then of course you have wool...

 

[Vinko]

Pads have different cuts. It usually goes, Yellow, Orange, White, Blue/Black, Red with Yellow being the most cut and blue/black and red being no cut. Then of course you have wool...

In other words, there abrasive qualities?

 

[kartracer23]

Here's a shot of my Ridgeline after the PC. This is with nothing on the paint - no wax, sealant, QD, etc. Just polished with the PC. I use the LC pads and Poorboys. Making a car look good is all about the prep. The only difference I can tell from polished out vs. polished out + wax or sealant (I use Zaino) is the longevity of the shine.

 

[pl_silverado]

Dewalt DW849.

 

[vette-kid]

Im subscribing to this thread. Its already getting lots of good info. Im looking to get into this myself, probably get to polish the car a few times a year and the truck at least once, so the polisher will get some use. Sounds like the porter cable is the way to go.

Can someone tell me, is Dual Action the same as a random orbital? Or are these two different types?

 

[T56 Impala]

Be forewarned that getting into detailing is even more addictive than buying tools. You realize how crazy you have become when you turn around and figure out you have more money in waxes on the shelf than your first car cost.

Yeah, Tools are much cheaper! The PC 7336 is the same unit as the 7424 and Lowes regularly sells them for $98.00 on sale. Keep a look out. I picked mine up a few years back. I guess the last car I did was the 740i in my avatar. I had finished and mounted the snows the day before it ended up in that condition.

 

[Chris Adams]

That's good to know. Is it worth trying to find an older PC 7424 (or equiv. model no.), or are the new ones made as well as they once were?

Speaking of paint, I was looking at the paint on some older Mercedes from the 70's and I was truly amazed with how nice it seemed compared to the newer cars you see.

Is it just me and my nostalgia or is paint getting crappy on a lot of cars compared to what it once was?

You seldom find a GOOD used one for sale. Get the cheaper one and buy the adaptor.

On the paint, you are looking at a car that cost more than a Cadillac or Lincoln in the 70's. The paint was as nice as they could make paint in those days.
In the 90's the government demanded paint be changed, radically. This resulted in millions of cars with bad paint and it took years and many millions of bucks to get paint back to high quality.
Paint today is finally getting as good or better than it was in the 80's, but costs more, of course.

 

[jshillin]

Im subscribing to this thread. Its already getting lots of good info. Im looking to get into this myself, probably get to polish the car a few times a year and the truck at least once, so the polisher will get some use. Sounds like the porter cable is the way to go.

Can someone tell me, is Dual Action the same as a random orbital? Or are these two different types?

Dual Action and Random Orbit are the same thing. The PC falls in to this category, they do not have a forced rotation, they have a random motion and it almost seems like it vibrates. They build up much less heat, but you can still burn paint if held in the same place especially with small 3" & 4" pads.

There are a few machine that are DA with forced Rotation such as the Flex 3401 which I have and really like. It still has the random orbit, but also has a forced rotation which provides more cutting power and less likely to burn the paint and also less likely to get holograms.

If you're really interested in detailing, you need to read the forums over at autopia.org Just don't go crazy and buy every product you hear that's great! You can spend thousands of dollars in no time and have cabinets full of detailing products/equipment like I have

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

Another place to avoid at all cost with a credit card in your pocket is autogeek.com and their forum. It's almost as bad as the autopians (I like both sites). The problem is just what jshillin said. You turn around and have thousands ******* in polish, wax, pads, sealants, clay...... You know you are hooked when you start debating the merits of two waxes that cost $150 a can or more.

 

[bowanna03]

I have an Hitachi I love it knock on wood she never let me down.

 

[DHCrocks]

In other words, there abrasive qualities?

yes, I usually only use two different polishes Menzerna Intensive Polish and Final Polish. using the different pads gives you a wider range of use. The cutting ability I was refering to has to do with the coarsness of the foam pads. for instance the yellow is a firm pad with fairly large pores, the blue is a very soft foam with small pores. It's like how sand paper has different grits. it's a big initial investment, I think I spent around $450 for the flex, a an assortment of pads and polishes. But the results are fantastic, you just can't duplicate it by hand polishing.

 

[vette-kid]

jshillin, Thanks for the info. Ill be doing some reading over there. My Vette is in serious need of a good polish right now!

 

[jshillin]

jshillin, Thanks for the info. Ill be doing some reading over there. My Vette is in serious need of a good polish right now!

Vette's have notoriously hard clear coat. It will be quite a job to polish out the vette with a PC. It can be done, but it will take some time and energy. Make sure you look into some Menzera SIP (Super Intense Polish) as it works good on hard clears.

 

[vette-kid]

Vette's have notoriously hard clear coat. It will be quite a job to polish out the vette with a PC. It can be done, but it will take some time and energy. Make sure you look into some Menzera SIP (Super Intense Polish) as it works good on hard clears.

hmm...so what would be better for the Vette then? Keep in mind this will pull double duty on my Tacoma.

How about this one from Griots? Im sure its made by someone else and they just stick their badge on it...any idea who makes it?

Or maybe Ill just offer a case of beer to the first person to come over and polish both of them!

 

[Vinko]

I admire guys who put the time and skill into this type of work. I know I don't have the time, right now. But I can do the wash, clay and wax and polish. I try to do it twice a year.

I'm big on interior detail though. I like a clean interior.

But it makes me crazy to see how much is involved in all of this when I read the detail sites.

 

[Danglerb]

Normally I like buying used good quality tools, but most detailers beat a polisher to near death in a year or so and sell them while they still have a pulse.

Buy a decent new one and it pays for itself in a couple uses.

 

[eschoendorff]

Do some online research.
Porter Cable is the most popular tool.
You can buy them with all the detailing gear for around 200-250, or you can buy one at Lowe's etc. for about 100, then buy the accessories.
I did it that way, have maybe 160 in the PC, the Velcro pads, etc.
Works fantastic.

Anyone can use a Porter Cable 7424 and never ruin any paint.

As is often mentioned a rotary buffers main use is burning paint.
You see guys in body shops with years of experience ruin paint on a regular basis. They don’t care much, they can respray the damage and speed is essential, so if they do damage it, so what?
The PC, with the right pads, is awesome for scratch removal, bringing up the paint, waxing and buffing out.

The PC 7424 is well-regarded. That is what I would buy... I bought one of the cheap polishers and learned my lesson quickly.

 

[jshillin]

hmm...so what would be better for the Vette then? Keep in mind this will pull double duty on my Tacoma.

How about this one from Griots? Im sure its made by someone else and they just stick their badge on it...any idea who makes it?

Or maybe Ill just offer a case of beer to the first person to come over and polish both of them!

First off, if someone takes you up on the case of beer to polish both vehicles, don't let them touch your vehicles!!! Way to much time involved in it. A lot of it depends on the condition and the machine. A PC will take about twice as long to polish a vehicle as a rotary and the Flex sits in between those too. The Flex will cost about twice as much as a PC, but will significantly cut down on the hours it takes to polish a vehicle. A decent Rotary like the Hitachi or Makita is faster, but has a very steep learning curve and has a much higher risk of burning through the paint. If I were you, I'd skip the PC and go straight to the flex. I personally have a PC, Flex and a Hitachi rotary, but my Flex gets used 50-60% of the time. The PC only comes out for spot polishing and the paint has to be pretty beat or require wet sanding before I break out the rotary. I hope that helps.

 

[vette-kid]

jshillin, that helps a lot actually. Ill stick with either the flex or the PC. I dont want to have to worry so much about ruining my paint so those sound like the best to start out with. Im sure its worth it...but I still need to convince myself its OK to spend nearly $300 on a polisher

 

[jshillin]

jshillin, that helps a lot actually. Ill stick with either the flex or the PC. I dont want to have to worry so much about ruining my paint so those sound like the best to start out with. Im sure its worth it...but I still need to convince myself its OK to spend nearly $300 on a polisher

A good place to shop is detailersdomain.com I buy a lot from Phil. He always has 10% off coupons and has some of the best prices around.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

jshillin,

One thing I would add is that a newbie to detailing will always use a PC even after buying a Fles or a rotary. I still use mine on paint that is prone to hologram and in tight small areas as well as headlights. It is very easy for a beginer to start with and as long as they understand to start with the least abrasive product and work up to one that corrects the problem, they will not have an issue.

Flex polishers are great with the forced rotation and I enjoy mine but the PC and the rotary have places in a polishing aresenal. It sounds like we use the same polishes as I prefer Menzerna also and keep Power Gloss, SIP, IP, Final, Micro and Nano polish on hand. I also use Meguiars #105 Ultra cut for REALLY quick cutting, 3M Perfect-it Ultrafine for the really soft paints and still enjoy all of my Poorboy's SSR series. For badly oxidized paint, their Professional Polish is still the best that I have found.

Pads are subjective also and I see where you like Lake, I prefer Edge foam and 3M wool. That is one area that I encourage someone to experiment with as the pads vary in their correction depending upon how the user holds the machine, the polish, speed of rotation, movement, etc. That is what makes the hobby so much fun....

Just wait until he starts asking about waxes....

 

[vette-kid]

jshillin,

One thing I would add is that a newbie to detailing will always use a PC even after buying a Fles or a rotary. I still use mine on paint that is prone to hologram and in tight small areas as well as headlights. It is very easy for a beginer to start with and as long as they understand to start with the least abrasive product and work up to one that corrects the problem, they will not have an issue.

Flex polishers are great with the forced rotation and I enjoy mine but the PC and the rotary have places in a polishing aresenal. It sounds like we use the same polishes as I prefer Menzerna also and keep Power Gloss, SIP, IP, Final, Micro and Nano polish on hand. I also use Meguiars #105 Ultra cut for REALLY quick cutting, 3M Perfect-it Ultrafine for the really soft paints and still enjoy all of my Poorboy's SSR series. For badly oxidized paint, their Professional Polish is still the best that I have found.

Pads are subjective also and I see where you like Lake, I prefer Edge foam and 3M wool. That is one area that I encourage someone to experiment with as the pads vary in their correction depending upon how the user holds the machine, the polish, speed of rotation, movement, etc. That is what makes the hobby so much fun....

Just wait until he starts asking about waxes....

hahaha, one step at a time!

 

[Chris Adams]

All good advice in this thread.

To address some issues. It all depends on how committed you want to get to the 'lifestyle' of detailing.

For someone who wants to make their car look fantastic, one or two or three cars a year, plus maybe a friend’s car, the 'cheap' but excellent way to go is the PC from Lowe's, buy the adaptor that lets you use the big pads online, also get three or so pads in the various grades (as has been mentioned), and you are then set for power equipment. I also permanently added a 25 foot extension with the ends heat shrink-ed and taped to make them waterproof.
You may need to spend between 140-190 total.

Wash the car with strong soap, like dish detergent. Then Clay it till it feels silky smooth, then PC it with your favorite scratch remover (I like kit if it's bad, Meguiar's if it isn't) then apply your choice of wax. I lean to NXT, 3 or four coats, allowing it to set over night between two and three coats. Then put a couple coats of pure Carnauba wax on it as a sealer.
Then wash with only water for the next few months as you will find soap does nothing for you if the car is properly waxed. Except wear away the wax.
You will be very pleased with the way the car looks, without spending a fortune.
Some guys love doing this stuff and can spend days, weeks working on one car.
I love having the cars and trucks looking better than new, getting all the compliments ,but not spending a lot of time or money.

 

[mkdive]

Be forewarned that getting into detailing is even more addictive than buying tools. You realize how crazy you have become when you turn around and figure out you have more money in waxes on the shelf than your first car cost.

Very True! I have been detailing my vehicles and motorcycles on sundays for years! In my case it relieves stress. I spend about 4 hours EACH sunday morning or late afternoon. And it is very true about the waxes & consumables. I have a 6x4 four level shelf in the garage with nothing buy detailing supplies. Waxes, polish, paint cleaners, clay, Interior & exterior QD sprays, wheel cleaners, soaps etc..... Not counting all the micro fibers, wash mits, brushes, hoses, nozzles, LIST GOES ON & ON & ON..... very addicting! It doesn't help that Im very OCD with my vehicles and motorcycles. But its a great feeling when you get compliments on your vehicles finish or "how clean it is" by a random stranger in a store parking lot. My wife of course thinks Im crazy once again.....maybe she is right....but her M5 is part of the sunday routine also. So she doesnt complain too much.

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Are the Griot's Garage polishers any good? I just got a coupon in the mail for a steep discount on one.