Splitter Box Grounding Concerns

[hiho]

Hey guys, first time caller. I have some concerns and questions about how my electrical system is grounded. I’m not an electrician and would like some opinions. Here’s what I’ve got:

Meter base sets on a 200 amp main breaker disconnect. Neutral is bonded to a grounding electrode. So far so good, I think.

[From the disconnect]
3-wire feeder (100 feet long) connects to a 200 amp splitter. The splitter has 3 bus bars (no ground). Neutral bar is bonded to the box and to a grounding electrode.
QUESTION: This is the 2nd instance of bonding the neutral to ground on this service. Is this an issue?
QUESTION: This electrode is NOT bonded to the electrode at the main breaker disconnect. Is this an issue?
QUESTION: Should this have been a 4-wire feeder to the splitter?

[From the splitter]
4-wire feeder connects to 200 amp Service Panel A (house). Neutrals and Grounds are separate and bonding screw is NOT in place. I think everything is kosher here.

[From the splitter]
4-wire feeder connects to 100 amp Service Panel B (shop). Neutrals and Grounds are separate and bonding screw is NOT in place. Ground bars are bonded to a grounding electrode.
QUESTION: Is this electrode necessary?

Thanks for looking.
Steve

 

[Norcal]

Since your using the lingo of "splitter box" I am going to guess your Canadian, if under the NEC, yes, but have no idea what CEC requirements are.

NEC requirements also on a newer installation would require proving 25 Ohms of resistance or less, or driving a 2nd rod & be done with it,but if done before 250.122(B) was adopted it's fine with one.

 

[hiho]

Norcal, I'm in Missouri but just not real familiar with the terminology. I heard it called a "splitter box" many years ago and don't know what else to call it. What I'm talking about is a steel enclosure that contains 3 large bus bars. Each bar is will accept up to 5 large conductors, each conductor secured with a set screw. Two of the bars are insulated from the enclosure, the neutral bar is not.

Just so I'm clear ... the feeder to the "splitter box" should be 4-wire with neutrals separate from grounds in the box? Unfortunately that would require replacing the splitter box since its neutral bar is not insulated from the enclosure and it does not have a grounding bus. Either that or modifying the box with approved parts if such parts exist. Would also have to snake in a ground wire but that shouldn't be too difficult for someone that does that kind of work.

I'm guessing you're talking about adding a 2nd rod at the main breaker disconnect. Are those the only ground rods needed for the whole system? Is there a benefit (or NEC requirement) to adding ground rods near the splitter and breaker panels? (I called them "service panels" above but that's probably the wrong term since the word "service" has special meaning).

 

[Charles (in GA)]

How old is the installation?

Charles

 

[hiho]

How old is the installation?

Charles

The service was installed at least 20 years ago, maybe 25. Can't remember for sure.

 

[Eriehunter]

can you post some pictures?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The service was installed at least 20 years ago, maybe 25. Can't remember for sure.

Three wire subfeed would have been legal and normal at that time.

Charles

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Grounding electrodes are only required at detached structures.

As Charles said, the 3-wire feeder was allowed back when your system was installed.4-wire feeders were required with 2008 code cycle so was the 4-wire portions done after this??

People get confused on this subject all the time so its understandable why your asking.

Code changed the requirement to 4-wires because its safer. With a 3-wire feeder, if the neutral fails then neutral current can and WILL find an alternate path back to its source(POCO transformer) through parallel paths such as water and gas lines, conduit, etc. when this happens, the potential for shock and electrocution presents itself because any and ALL metal bonded to the neutral bar in the subpanel will be energized...thus the 4-wire feed was born to separate any potential for neutral current to travel on ground paths...

Hey guys, first time caller. I have some concerns and questions about how my electrical system is grounded. I’m not an electrician and would like some opinions. Here’s what I’ve got:

Meter base sets on a 200 amp main breaker disconnect. Neutral is bonded to a grounding electrode. So far so good, I think.

That is correct. The neutral bar in the main service should be bonded to the panel and grounding electrodes as well as any metal piping(water and gas). For new installations this is the only place this should be done...

[From the disconnect]
3-wire feeder (100 feet long) connects to a 200 amp splitter. The splitter has 3 bus bars (no ground). Neutral bar is bonded to the box and to a grounding electrode.
QUESTION: This is the 2nd instance of bonding the neutral to ground on this service. Is this an issue?
QUESTION: This electrode is NOT bonded to the electrode at the main breaker disconnect. Is this an issue?
QUESTION: Should this have been a 4-wire feeder to the splitter?

Since its a 3-wire feeder then its ok.

Actually, this second electrode IS connected to the one at the main service through the neutral.

The requirement for 4-wire vs. 3-wire depends on the year done and code cycle...

[From the splitter]
4-wire feeder connects to 200 amp Service Panel A (house). Neutrals and Grounds are separate and bonding screw is NOT in place. I think everything is kosher here.

[From the splitter]
4-wire feeder connects to 100 amp Service Panel B (shop). Neutrals and Grounds are separate and bonding screw is NOT in place. Ground bars are bonded to a grounding electrode.
QUESTION: Is this electrode necessary?

Thanks for looking.
Steve

Everything sounds good.

Now the answer to the electrode questions depends on whether its at a detached structure....

Hopefully this clears up your confusion!

 

[hiho]

wyliesdiesels, thanks for the explanation. Confusion is gone! I’ve been trying to understand the rules for neutral-to-ground bonding for a while and now I think I get it. Knowing the change from 3-wire to 4-wire feeders came about with the 2008 NEC is helpful as well.

The entire system I described was installed at about the same time (about 20 years ago) with one exception: the 4th wire from the splitter to each breaker panel is a recent upgrade. When I added these wires, grounding bars were added to the breaker panels and the grounds and neutrals separated. Also the green bonding screw was removed from both panels.

The electrode question was for panel B which is a detached workshop so it sounds like having the rod there is correct.

Sounds like the system is in good shape!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Another thin people get confused on is the difference between grounding electrodes and ground wires aka equipment grounding conductors. This is because they share the same name but have do different things, being equally important...I think u understand the difference so i wont go down that road...