picts of your in-floor heat set ups.

[scrapart]

OK so this is my setup I have a blow off valve that goes in place of the funnel. The pex coming in on the left comes from the pump....The valve is there just for another way to control the heat.

1. should the pump be before or after the heater?
2. Im not understanding how to wire the thermostat to the pump?
3. Is there any certain way my pump should hang?

 

[anthony666]

1. should the pump be before or after the heater?
2. Im not understanding how to wire the thermostat to the pump?
3. Is there any certain way my pump should hang?

1. after
2. that's a 220v t-stat .. get one for 110v to match the pump
3. it shouldn't 'hang' .. the wiring shouldn't be where it can get wet if the pump leaks and the motor should not be oriented so that it's an air trap

good lord that's ugly sir

 

[scrapart]

I know its ugly not going for looks Im going for function its not complete yet.
The T-stat is for 120, 208 or 240 volt

 

[anthony666]

use the diagram on the right then, substitute 'pump' for heater

meanwhile, what turns on the wall kettle ?? does it have a flow switch, an internal tstat or maybe a 't t' input ???

 

[scrapart]

Water flow turns on the propane tankless heater... Ok do I hook it to the yellow wire or white wire?

 

[anthony666]

it doesn't matter with those taco pumps, they don't have a L & N like a grundfos

 

[anthony666]

you need a few more components .. what are you doing about air elimination and thermal expansion ??

 

[scrapart]

I have a longer piece of pipe and at top I have a 75psi air valve that goes in place of the funnel. Never thought of a tank for expansion

 

[scrapart]

Is there really that much expansion?

 

[scrapart]

The guy at Menard's (Home improvement store) said there isent really a need for a tank seeing I have one 150' loop. Just keep an eye on the air valve if I start leaking then I might want to think about a tank.

 

[anthony666]

there's a reason your menards guy makes $10 a hour working at a box store .. because he knows **** about hydronics

i'm willing to wager that 75 psi valve is a t&p valve, not an air eliminator, and 75 psi is way too much for a radiant system, 30 psi is gold .. a t&p is a safety valve .. if you get too much temperature (the t in t&p) or pressure (the p) your system becomes a bomb firing scalding water and hunks of boiler about the general vicinity .. a t&p vents water until the desired pressure is achieved .. please change it to a 30 psi valve at your earliest possible opportunity

yes, you need a thermal expansion tank, it helps stop the above t&p explosions

yes, you need an air eliminator .. water is made up of gases, hydrogen and oxygen, plus water gases it managed to absorb along the way as it rushes through the city water supply, or through your well .. as soon as you put it into your system it stops rushing around and starts undissolving the gases and some of it's oxygen .. three things combined cause corrosion; heat, water and air .. we need the water and the heat, so we get rid of the air

 

[scrapart]

not connected to a water supply... Im using the antifreeze for in floor heat.

 

[anthony666]

you can't use straight anti freeze .. edit, well technically you can, but it's not the right way to do it or even a good way

dude .. start another thread .. we'll get you back on track

 

[scrapart]

Ok I made another thread.

 

[G W Mclintock]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I guess it's my turn.

A system that is about as small as they get.

Is this system still working for you? What model titan is that? Any help is appreciated. (i'm a newbie)

 

[Fastback]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

I never touch it, it just works. I keep the garage at 49º this winter because I am not painting or curing any primers etc.. I find that is a great temp to maintain because the thing hardly runs.

I dont have a huge amount of insulation under the slab, just on the frost walls outside that run down past the footer to keep the cold from migrating into the walls or under the slab. I figure once I prevent the slab from getting cold the rest is easy.

We just had that super cold snap come through Indy a few weeks back and the garage felt warmer than it usually does, obviously it was just all relative to what it was outside.

It amazes me how much different this heated side of the shop is compared to the other unheated side. On the unheated side I have to run the kerosene radiant heater the entire time I am out there because everything on that side of the shop is frozen, every wrench, toolbox and of course the slab literally feels like it is sucking the heat out of you while you stand there.

On the heated side I really dont need to do anything and it feels warmer than it really is.

Here is a more descriptive picture.

Now, if I had natural gas run to the garage I would get a gas on-demand hot water heater, it would cost more initially but be cheaper to run if I wanted to keep it around 70º all the time.

But, for the cheap initial cost I would bet its hard to beat a system like this to keep things in the mid-50's in this part of the US.
Now, electrical rates could quadruple if politicians love the myth of global warming over the well being of Americans.

 

[Highbeam]

Did you just screw all that to the OSB or did you hit studs with the anchors?

 

[G W Mclintock]

Re: picts of your in floor heat set ups.

Fastback-
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar!
Thanks so much for the info, that is exactly what I was looking for. Obviously I appreciate it and thanks again.

PS- great forum, very informative.

 

[scrapart]

Fastback how many ft of pex do you have?

 

[Fastback]

Fastback how many ft of pex do you have?

I dont remember. I "think" it was around 165 per loop?

"Did you just screw all that to the OSB or did you hit studs with the anchors? "

Little bit of both. Its not like it's heavy.

 

[MongoTom]

I added a thread for my system today. Here's the link: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=235513

Happy to answer questions here or there.

 

[Cougfan]

I just got my system dry fit today. Nothing is soldered yet, so now is the time to change anything.

The flow is clockwise. I am running pex from the end of the copper down to the manifold (about 10 feet below the boiler). The pump is a taco 007. The boiler is a 20kw Steibel Eltron.

 

[Highbeam]

I just got my system dry fit today. Nothing is soldered yet, so now is the time to change anything.

The flow is clockwise. I am running pex from the end of the copper down to the manifold (about 10 feet below the boiler). The pump is a taco 007. The boiler is a 20kw Steibel Eltron.

I've been wating for this cougfan. 20kw!! Sheesh, that's a lot of juice. How big is the breaker for it, how big is the main breaker at the panel with the boiler breaker? Is that 3/4" copper? What are those yellow caps/valves at the bottom?

 

[Cougfan]

Ya, the price difference in up-sizing the boiler wasn't too huge relative to the money that I have dumped into the shop, and I wanted to make sure I had enough juice. I ran the heat loss calcs, but I don't have a ton of faith in them. Oh well. It is run on two 50amp circuits (two 10kw heaters in the boiler). The main breaker is a 200 amp, so hopefully I will be okay. Also, I am hoping that once I get it up and running, and the concrete gets up near temp, the boiler won't be running a full 20kw. It should throttle down based on what is required. At least, that is how I understand it to work. And yes, that it 3/4" copper. I think it should be big enough. The internals of the boiler are much smaller, so I don't think the pipe will be the restriction.

The yellow caps near the bottom are the fill/bleed valving.

I sure hope this works like I have planned

 

[jopickens]

Actually the boiler will probably never draw anywhere near it's rated capacity... due to the 007 only being able to flow so much water through it. It'll vary it's output based on flow and temp. rise requested. But it will work... Clamp your AC feeds to check the amperage draw when you fire it up! This is fun stuff...

For example - I use a 007 to circulate water through my 2600 sq. ft. shop floor (1600' of 3/4" pex in four loops - one 'zone') and a takagi tk3 nat. gas thwh to heat it. I get about 2.5g/m flow through the floor which isn't enough to really run the tk3 hard. Now if I crack open the sink (full flow commercial bucket filler type faucet) full tilt hot - you can hear the tk3 ramp WAY up to compensate for the increased hw demand/flow.
I'm a DIY guy, not a professional, my comments are from my observations/limited experience.
Josh

 

[CC1221]

Cougfan - nice setup! I've been running the same 20Kw unit since about October - so far so good. I will say that I was somewhat surprised when I got the unit and actually opened it up to see how small the internal piping was in comparison to the 3/4" fittings. I'm running mine on 1500' of 1/2" pex, 6 loops, one zone and if there is any accuracy to the flow meters on the manifold, about 3gpm through the system and I'm convinced the biggest restriction is the heater itself.
jopickens is correct and it will "throttle" but mine typically runs about a 40 degree delta when supplying 100 degrees to the floor - all the while the unit is running full tilt until its about ready to shut down and as the return temp comes up you can hear (and see on an amp meter) the unit backing off. I check mine from time to time and when it's running it's averaging a full 40 amps on each of the two circuits (really, really, really makes the meter spin!!). I also have two 50's on a 200 amp supply and have yet to have any issues with it from any standpoint... Hopefully you have the same luck I've had so far!!

 

[E.rodz]

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has shared there builds with everyone. There are some awesome systems on here and I hope it helped everyone I know it definitely helped me with my system and to all that think there is only one way to do something open your eyes there are many ways to do anything!
The biggest thanks go out to the professionals that have helped people design a system that will work well!!! most of us on this site are do it your self kind of people that just need a couple pictures and a little explanation and this is what this thread is all about!
THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR POSTING!!!

 

[leiterch]

Wondering if I could get a bit of help.

Here is my install.

30'x48'x12' Pole barn
2" foam
6" zone 1/2" pex tubing
6-zone manifold

I have the pex run, the concrete poured and the manifold purchased.

I am going to be using my outdoor wood boiler for heat.

Here is my current plan:
- Run insulated pipe from my boiler to the pole barn (the boiler has separate pumps for the house and the barn) aprox - 120'
- Run the pipe from the boiler to a water to water exchanger. size?

This is where i am stuck. I know that i need a few things, but I am not completely sure.

I assume that I need a pump and a thermostat to control the pump when the barn needs heat, but I am not sure if I need anything else or what size pump I would need.

Any help you guys could give me would be great.

 

[twinscrewcaddy]

leiterch... i have no advise. but i fully agree with your first picture.

here's mine. pouring concrete (and beers) next Tuesday!

 

[E.rodz]

So many cool set ups on here!

THANKS EVERYONE FOR SHARING!

 

[E.rodz]

Coming up to heating season again let's see some more systems!

 

[wcs6523]

Long time lurker but here is my in floor setup. 36x48x14 pole building with 7 loops of 1/2" pex. Lochinvar whn055 lp boiler bought scratch and dent off ebay and single Grundfoss Alpha pump. Just started up a couple of weeks ago and so far so good.

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

The people that sell you the radiant floor components should include design.

Blankets are for beds. We use XPS under our radiant slabs.

 

[ChrisCrane]

heres a start of mine, 102 sheets of 2" 25psi pink board on the floor and double layer 4" down 24" on the inside a total of 133 sheets irrc


total of 12 loops setup in 4 different zones total of 3600 ft of pex in the floor, setup with no pex in 2-3' x 28' sections in the 10ft door bays for the addition of lifts down the road with no worries of finding the pex

 

[windward]

Just got my setup running a few weeks ago. 5 circuits, with one circuit dedicated to an office area. I can turn off the flow valves for the shop if i want to only heat the office. I could easily add telestats and a different zone controller if i decide i really want true zones.

Navien NCB-180 combi boiler with an outdoor reset.

So far, so good.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[anthony666]

Navien NCB-180 combi boiler with an outdoor reset.

So far, so good.

kudos for using outdoor reset, a lot of people don't bother

however the way you have that piped, the water has to switch direction to short back to the boiler if the pump into the floor is off but the pump inside the boiler is on, or vice versa .. that is very bad

also your air eliminator should be higher in the system .. you're gonna have issues getting all the air out at the beginning of each season .. i'd take the cover off the boiler in september every year, there's a bleeder valve inside there .. open it up and let the fill valve purge as much as possible before you get a heat call

also your backflow valve has to be installed horizontally, not vertically
http://media.wattswater.com/1910237.pdf

 

[mygarageone]

Just got my setup running a few weeks ago. 5 circuits, with one circuit dedicated to an office area. I can turn off the flow valves for the shop if i want to only heat the office. I could easily add telestats and a different zone controller if i decide i really want true zones.

Navien NCB-180 combi boiler with an outdoor reset.

So far, so good.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

t

I can't tell for sure but if what I am seeing at the right of your pic is the back flow preventor , it's not suppossed the be verticle but horozonal .

 

[windward]

also your backflow valve has to be installed horizontally, not vertically
http://media.wattswater.com/1910237.pdf

The instructions state that it can be installed horizontally or vertically.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[windward]

kudos for using outdoor reset, a lot of people don't bother

however the way you have that piped, the water has to switch direction to short back to the boiler if the pump into the floor is off but the pump inside the boiler is on, or vice versa .. that is very bad

Are you saying i should have mounted the boiler to the left? So that the return to the boiler does not have to change direction? When you say "very bad" , what is going to happen?

I think that the floor pump is always on (auto-sensing variable pump) whenever the boiler pump would be on. I cannot think of a situation where the boiler is running, but the floor pump is not on.

Appreciate the input.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[anthony666]

you're right, but if you do you're supposed to sweat on a vent extension to a 90 straight down