Porcelain Tile Horror Story

[2slow]

I am seriously considering laying porcelain tile in my workshop as a flooring material. I have read many posts, and done several searches, and all I find are success stories.

Has anyone had a bad experience? If so please post details. I searched for a while and can not find one bad experience posted. (I can not say the same for epoxy...)

The tile I like from builders direct only comes in 18x18. Do you think that size would pose a problem? Most people seem to use 12x12s.
http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain-Tile/Clay-Fresca/ProductDisplay_6933_p1_10081569.aspx

The floor is currently painted with oil based paint and I was planning on having that scraped off and then having the tile laid. A local guy that did the VCT in my big barn is willing to scrape the old paint, lay the tile and replace the cove base for $1,500 with me providing all material and renting floor grinder. Any advice on type of floor grinder to remove paint?

Current state:

 

[Dakota00]

You wont find any porcelain tile horror stories on this forum. Especially if myself, slickgt1 and Shea are monitoring the flooring forum.

But I got to ask, what's wrong with the current oil based paint that's applied? In the pic the floor coating looks fine.

 

[OriginalWhitey]

I'm sure it's been discussed before but isn't there problems with the tile popping up in the cold/frost?

 

[Rod N]

Not that I know squat but.........
I think any issues that people will have can be related right back to prep, materials and application.
Done right, this should be the ultimate floor. Budget? Forget about it. The prep and materials ended up being more than 1/3 of my cost, but I did do a 1' border on the walls.
If my floor looked like yours and my lift was already installed I'd have spend the money on other things.
They want $6/sq/ft here for install including thin set and grout.

 

[trance|ghost]

would about a floor that is pitted? I live in Ontario it gets cold up here...

I want to go the porcelain route so badly. my floor isn't cracked at all anywhere just pitted in some areas

 

[2slow]

Dakota00 - The oil based paint is fine, but I am fussy. the floor was oil stained and bare when I bought the place so I figured I would have to grind to do epoxy, why not try simple paint. If I hated it, I would just grind it anyway. Paint is OK, but I have already touched up a few areas that I scratched when putting in the lift, or when I drug a jackstand across it. The kicker was when I lifted a few small patches from under the tires of a car I left parked overnight in the shop. It patches very nicely, but I don't want to keep touching it up the rest of my life. My wife is encouraging me to do it right prior to moving the tools...

I really don't love Epoxy because it is expensive and although way better than regular paint, far from bulletproof. I know too many people with professional epoxy that did not meet my expectations. The incremental cost for tile is not much at all, so if it is as good as everything I have read it is a no brainer for me.

The thing about tile is I can not find one post with a single bad experience. Not a single picture of a cracked tile from use or one that popped up, etc. I have found pictures and videos of amazing things like jackstands and sledgehammers that do no damage to the tile. Are negative experiences "moderated" out of the forum, or are there really none?

I am looking for a floor that will stay nice for a LONG time. I think tile is it, but am looking for someone to tell me if I am missing something.

OriginalWhitey - It has been discussed and I can not find one post of a tile actually popping. People reccomend a latex additive in the thinset, but even jobs where people did not use the additive do not have later posts of problems.

RodN - I want a nice floor. I did VCT in my storage barn and am very pleased with it. The only downside is that it gets VERY slippery when there is melted snow on it, but that might be due to the 7 coats of polish... I had people tell me a bunch of reasons you cant use VCT in an unheated area, but I trusted what I read here and it has not had a single issue.

So I still have a few questions:

1) Has anyone that actually installed porcelain tile had an issue?

2) Are 18x18 tiles OK?

3) What is the best thinset to use for this application?

Thanks,
-Joe

 

[509SC]

The 18x18" tiles are fine to use, just remember, they work better with a "flat" floor. If you have center floor drains with pitch leading to them, it's extremely hard to follow that contour. If your floor is all pitched to the doors, and relatively flat, it won't be a problem. Take a 6 or 8 foot straight edge and place it around on the floor. If it's consistently flat, it's a good candidate, if not, get ready to pop tiles, and build them up with thinset as you install to get a flat floor. As far as thinset, you can spend from $12-50 a bag for latex modified thinset. Assuming the floor is properly prepped, and the installation is done correctly (very important), you don't have to buy anything fancy for setting. Make sure the tiles (18x18) are back buttered and have 100% coverage, you'll be fine. It's all in the prep and install. Sometimes the cheapest guy doesn't do the best job. I'ld say the previous comment about $6 per foot is right on.

 

[2slow]

There is a drain in the center, and the floor locally pitched around it. I will play with a straight edge and see how much we are talking. Thanks for the tip.

 

[JimVonBaden]

would about a floor that is pitted? I live in Ontario it gets cold up here...

I want to go the porcelain route so badly. my floor isn't cracked at all anywhere just pitted in some areas

Pitting is irrelevant. The thinset will cover it!

 

[Dakota00]

would about a floor that is pitted? I live in Ontario it gets cold up here...

I want to go the porcelain route so badly. my floor isn't cracked at all anywhere just pitted in some areas

Is this enough pitting for you?
30 years of winter punishment done to the slab.

View media item 33579

 

[Dakota00]

The thing about tile is I can not find one post with a single bad experience. Not a single picture of a cracked tile from use or one that popped up, etc. I have found pictures and videos of amazing things like jackstands and sledgehammers that do no damage to the tile. Are negative experiences "moderated" out of the forum, or are there really none?

I am looking for a floor that will stay nice for a LONG time. I think tile is it, but am looking for someone to tell me if I am missing something.

A cracked or popped tiles is caused by improper installation and/or application of tiles in near or below freezing temps. Resulting in the thinset freezing and the tile(s) not adhere causing the popping.
I've been here long enough and have NEVER experienced any filtering of tile threads from the moderators. There's absolutely no need for it.
If you are looking for a permanent flooring solution that takes a beating and looks great for years to come. Porcelain tiles is the way to go!! Take a look at my thread and see for yourself what my floor has been through!

 

[Rod N]

My garage will be the last one I ever have and I want it the best it can be with my skill and budget.
Porcelain hands down was the best option for me.
It will be the nicest floor in the house and I plan on beating the s##t out of it working on cars and driving my sled on it.

Go for it!!!!

 

[2slow]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am still amazed with the vast majority of the installs being DIY and often first timers that no one on has ever posted a single problem. I am sold. Will order tile Monday.

So now some detailed questions:

What thinset? From what I have read I want latex modified. Would this be a good choice:
http://www.menards.com/main/p-2229813-c-6586.htm

What grout? From what I have read epoxy grout is where it is at. How hard is it to work with? Would this be a good choice:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_593286-1295...t&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=epoxy+grout&facetInfo=

What grout color would everyone advise? The tiles are light grey and I was thinking a similar color grout to help it all blend together.
http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain-Tile/Clay-Fresca/ProductDisplay_6933_p1_10081569.aspx

Does anyone know of a local store that carries reno ramp, or should I just buy online? Is there something better? My door is 12' wide and it looks like it only comes in 8' sections so I will end up with a seam...
http://www.shagtools.com/tools/Schl...um-49-RENO-RAMP-AE.cfm?Options=282&Quantity=2
Looks like Home Depot carries this which has a steeper slope, but might be perfect for me. as I can keep it 100% under garage door.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Schluter...MERCH=REC-_-nosearch2_rr-_-NA-_-100172855-_-N

 

[motofool33]

subscribed

 

[Johns12]

My tile floor feels stronger than the concrete it's on. I got my edging at Home Depot. Worked fine.

 

[cbracer]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete. *edit* Actually I'd choose those tuff seal tiles! even at $6 sq foot to me they would be worth it.

 

[TheGunCollector]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete.

Looks great man! But, I'm like you - a perfectionist. I also have about 1500 s/ft to do. Your post is making me rethink tiling it.

 

[bdamico]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete.


That's interesting. I almost do nothing but blow mine out once a month. Steamed it a couple times but I find that even when dirty my dark tiles hide much more of that dirt than prior light epoxy. Your floor looks great and is very similar to mine. When I bought the house it hand paint on the floor that looked like ****. You wouldn't have been happy with that.

 

[motofool33]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete.

that floor looks awesome man, wish it were mine.

 

[Jsf721]

Use an epoxy grout. You must know that it needs to be cleaned before it sets up or you will have a nightmare but once installed, it won't stain and will stay cleaner looking forever.

Used it in my down stairs after the hurricane and it was a pain to clean up Bc I waited too long but now the kids spill, it's no biggie.

 

[raddksn]

Won't a tile chip or crack if a car part or heavy tool is dropped?

 

[Dakota00]

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am still amazed with the vast majority of the installs being DIY and often first timers that no one on has ever posted a single problem. I am sold. Will order tile Monday.

So now some detailed questions: Answers in bold!

What thinset? From what I have read I want latex modified. Would this be a good choice:
http://www.menards.com/main/p-2229813-c-6586.htm

If this garage is not heated and will be exposed to the winter elements (daily driven vehicles). I highly recommend using a thinset with a latex additives. Such as Mapei- Kerabond/Keralastic System, Laticrete- 254 Platinum or Custom Building- FlexBond found at Home Depot.

What grout? From what I have read epoxy grout is where it is at. How hard is it to work with? Would this be a good choice:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_593286-1295...t&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=epoxy+grout&facetInfo=

I would not recommend using Epoxy grout, especially if you have no previous experience working with this stuff. Stick with a grout like Mapei- UltraColor Plus, I've used this grout on all my exterior jobs. (including my own garage floor). It's waterproof, stain proof, oil and chemical resistant, similar properties to Epoxy but it's a lot easier to work with and is way cheaper than Epoxy.

What grout color would everyone advise? The tiles are light grey and I was thinking a similar color grout to help it all blend together.
http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain-Tile/Clay-Fresca/ProductDisplay_6933_p1_10081569.aspx

Stay with a grout color that is similar or slightly darker than the tile you are choosing.

Does anyone know of a local store that carries reno ramp, or should I just buy online? Is there something better? My door is 12' wide and it looks like it only comes in 8' sections so I will end up with a seam...
http://www.shagtools.com/tools/Schl...um-49-RENO-RAMP-AE.cfm?Options=282&Quantity=2
Looks like Home Depot carries this which has a steeper slope, but might be perfect for me. as I can keep it 100% under garage door.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Schluter...MERCH=REC-_-nosearch2_rr-_-NA-_-100172855-_-N

I used the Reno-U edge protector in my garage, no issues, works perfect!

 

[Dakota00]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete.

Your floor came out beautiful man!!

But I need to clear some things up. The type of tiles you chose requires more housekeeping NOT maintenance. Porcelain tiles are maintenance free. My floor hardly gets swept or washed unless I'm doing some kind of dirty job in the garage.
If you are a perfectionist like many of us on here are, you'd shoot yourself after a week if you just painted your concrete slab.

Won't a tile chip or crack if a car part or heavy tool is dropped?

When a quality porcelain tile is installed properly. A tiled floor will be more durable and take more punishment than a regular concrete slab.

 

[cbracer]

The type of tiles you chose requires more housekeeping NOT maintenance. Porcelain tiles are maintenance free.
When a quality porcelain tile is installed properly. A tiled floor will be more durable and take more punishment than a regular concrete slab.

Thanks for the compliments. It did turn out nice. You're correct about more housekeeping not maintenance. For my garage I get a lot of leaves blowing in and coming in from my tires so I'm constantly cleaning and sweeping. Whe the flowers get smashed into the tile I have to clean them. When I had concrete they would stain a bit and I wouldn't care.

I tested my tile and it *can* fracture the top of the tile if drop a hammer at the worst possible angle from 5 feet. If you hit the tile with a hammer it *can* also break. I know because I tested it with a tile down, then broke out the tile and replaced it. So I've been through that process. Granted my tile is from china not italian but it was also half the cost of italian tile.

Yeah I like it, but it took me way too long to do it and so right now I don't think I'd ever do another garage in tile. Maybe after years of living with it I might change my mind. What I really wanted was more of a polished concrete floor look.

I will also only us a non sanded grout from now on, and will never use epoxy. Do not let epoxy dry on the tiles. There some newer, expensive stuff that's not epoxy and performs well. When I grouted I ended up getting premixed stuff because I was so tired of working on the floor I didn't want anything that added time like mixing grout. Did enough mixing of thinset!

The reno ramp link that's 2" wide looks awesome. Mine is about half an inch and about 45 degrees. It works but I couldn't find anything with less of an angle.

Please make sure if you choose tile, get some with through color!!! Mine ended up chipped in a few places from handling before and cleaning thinset off between grout lines, and the through color makes it much much less noticeable. As long as the through color matches the top of the tile of course.

If I had to do it over again I'd do tuff seal tiles.

 

[stage20]

I just finished mine last week. NEVER again will I tile a garage floor. It simply took way too long if you are any type of a perfectionist to tile 400 sq feet. I wanted to save money but in the end it was $1800 + a tile saw and so I didn't save any money compared to having someone come out and epoxy it. It will never stain, looks great, tough, but requires cleaning. With a bare concrete floor you might sweep it and that's about it. With tile you clean tile like any other hard floor in your house, so it's not maintenance free. I spend 15+ days doing it. I wanted things to roll smoothly so I made sure to get the grout lines as close to level with the top of the tiles as possible. So I sped days scrubbing off dried grout. Next time I'll do painted concrete.

the grout process was not done correctly if it took days to remove dried grout. you dont let it dry. keeping the grout "at the top" requires a technique that comes with experience. you may have spread more than you could handle.

floor looks good from the pics

 

[citizen87325es]

So now some detailed questions:

What thinset? From what I have read I want latex modified. Would this be a good choice:
http://www.menards.com/main/p-2229813-c-6586.htm

What grout? From what I have read epoxy grout is where it is at. How hard is it to work with? Would this be a good choice:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_593286-1295...t&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=epoxy+grout&facetInfo=

What grout color would everyone advise? The tiles are light grey and I was thinking a similar color grout to help it all blend together.
http://www.builddirect.com/Porcelain-Tile/Clay-Fresca/ProductDisplay_6933_p1_10081569.aspx

Does anyone know of a local store that carries reno ramp, or should I just buy online? Is there something better? My door is 12' wide and it looks like it only comes in 8' sections so I will end up with a seam...
http://www.shagtools.com/tools/Schl...um-49-RENO-RAMP-AE.cfm?Options=282&Quantity=2
Looks like Home Depot carries this which has a steeper slope, but might be perfect for me. as I can keep it 100% under garage door.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Schluter...MERCH=REC-_-nosearch2_rr-_-NA-_-100172855-_-N

I like using mapei products. Mapei makes keralastic latex that you use in place of water when mixing thinset(specifically kerabond thinset) It makes it more stiff when buttering(latex tends to do that) but would fit your application well I think.

Grout I would use spectraLOCK by laticrete if you want to go the epoxy route. Decent to work with as far as epoxy goes. Epoxy takes a lot of washing/acid to get rid of the haze so get good gloves. And picking a color close to the tile color always looks good. Also when looking for products you could check out daltile, rbc tile, or even the tile shop to get away from big box store products(if they are in your area). ( my experience comes from doing 1/2 inch tile up to 4 ft x 8ft tile panels commercially.)

 

[bdamico]

I tested my tile and it *can* fracture the top of the tile if drop a hammer at the worst possible angle from 5 feet. If you hit the tile with a hammer it *can* also break. I know because I tested it with a tile down, then broke out the tile and replaced it. So I've been through that process. Granted my tile is from china not italian but it was also half the cost of italian tile.


I will also only us a non sanded grout from now on, and will never use epoxy. Do not let epoxy dry on the tiles. There some newer, expensive stuff that's not epoxy and performs well. When I grouted I ended up getting premixed stuff because I was so tired of working on the floor I didn't want anything that added time like mixing grout. Did enough mixing of thinset!

Please make sure if you choose tile, get some with through color!!! Mine ended up chipped in a few places from handling before and cleaning thinset off between grout lines, and the through color makes it much much less noticeable. As long as the through color matches the top of the tile of course.

If I had to do it over again I'd do tuff seal tiles.

I have to say. I have strong throughbody tiles and I have dropped heavy tools from the top of my ladder and nothing. I have yet to chip or mar a single tile (knock on wood). I also had epoxy grout issues and would skip that next time but that is a small learning lesson that doesn't take away from the final product and years of service it will provide you. I had to use all kinds of abrasives to get the haze off and again no scratches or anything on the tile.

 

[2slow]

Went to order the tile today and builddirect was out of stock. Any suggestions as to alternate places to find tile? Builddirect advertised PEI 5 throughbody rectified tiles in a nice color for 2.29/ft^2 Unfortunately they are out of stock...

 

[Dakota00]

^^^ Hit up a few tile shops in the area. You might score a good deal on some clearance tiles.

 

[bdamico]

Went to order the tile today and builddirect was out of stock. Any suggestions as to alternate places to find tile? Builddirect advertised PEI 5 throughbody rectified tiles in a nice color for 2.29/ft^2 Unfortunately they are out of stock...

craigslist. a lot of leftovers from large commercial jobs with nice tiles

 

[Angelfire]

Went to order the tile today and builddirect was out of stock. Any suggestions as to alternate places to find tile? Builddirect advertised PEI 5 throughbody rectified tiles in a nice color for 2.29/ft^2 Unfortunately they are out of stock...

With regards to BuildDirect, I found a tile I really liked there. I couldn't see paying the $2.39 a foot or whatever they were charging but it was very nice tile....met all the high end specs, PEI 5, good friction coefficients, rectified, throughbody, etc....

So I kept looking but all the while keeping an eye on Builddirect just in case. Well I lucked out and they had the exact tile I wanted on clearance one day...got it for $1.19/ft I think. I added to my win by calling in the order and was able to negotiate a few hundred off the shipping cost as well.

So if you are not in a hurry, be sure to keep an eye on builddirect as it may just be the case that they will have the tile you want on a clearance too!
Cheers.

 

[OJ Bartley]

2slow, I just finished my garage last night, and I will agree that it was labour intensive, but the results make me happy. I did use the Reno Ramp and think it looks awesome, although the Reno U looks like it will do the trick too. Have a look at my thread linked below and you can see my process. I used Mapei Kerabond/Kerelastic, and used their Ultracolor grout. I haven't really done anything to it yet, but I'm very happy with the end result

My garage is only 200 sq ft, and it took me a little over a month to get through the project, but that's with doing a couple hours here and there in the evenings and weekends. It can be done a lot faster. I was pretty convinced I wanted epoxy, and then when I priced it all out, and considered how much prep was involved, how critical it was, and the fact that some people still have issues, I switched to tile.

cbracer, your floor looks awesome. I know it gets painful during the install, but it sure looks like it was worth it to me, that floor is really something better than 99% of what's out there.

 

[MagicMarker]

Looks great.. can a 4 post lift be installed over tile?

 

[Dakota00]

^^ Yup, I did!

 

[Shea]

Man this thread grew legs. It's great to see people talking about porcelain.

cbracer - Your floor looks awesome!

 

[PoorOwner]

There isn't any horror story, to be honest you can chip the tile by dropping something on it. I am not going to drop a brake rotor on purpose, but tools and other things get dropped sometimes. I have chipped my kitchen floor dropping some house hold items on it. A 1/4" Masonite under the work being performed could make a big difference in protecting the tile.

 

[Radix2]

I'd personally try to find a non-rectified tile if doing large tiles in a garage. rectified tiles have sharp edges and when combined with large tiles make it very difficult for a DIY to not have lippage between tiles (all credit to you perfectionist guys who did it !) - sharp edges that can catch and chip when rolling or sliding hard items.

A slight eased edge and a moderate grout line will make installation easier, but still should not catch the small wheels on carts and such.

The John Bridge tile forum is great if you have many tile questions and you can see plenty of horror stories too (best way to avoid is to follow the directions !)

 

[Angelfire]

There isn't any horror story, to be honest you can chip the tile by dropping something on it. I am not going to drop a brake rotor on purpose, but tools and other things get dropped sometimes. I have chipped my kitchen floor dropping some house hold items on it. A 1/4" Masonite under the work being performed could make a big difference in protecting the tile.

Is the tile in your kitchen porcelain or ceramic? Porcelain is harder than concrete so I use that as a judge...will something that chips concrete when it falls, chip the porcelain? Maybe. Ceramic is significantly softer and does chip easier. Either way, that's the argument for having a through body tile.

I'd personally try to find a non-rectified tile if doing large tiles in a garage. rectified tiles have sharp edges and when combined with large tiles make it very difficult for a DIY to not have lippage between tiles (all credit to you perfectionist guys who did it !) - sharp edges that can catch and chip when rolling or sliding hard items.

A slight eased edge and a moderate grout line will make installation easier, but still should not catch the small wheels on carts and such.

The John Bridge tile forum is great if you have many tile questions and you can see plenty of horror stories too (best way to avoid is to follow the directions !)

My rectified tile does have a slight slope at the edges. I wanted rectified to help with keeping my grout lines consistent and be able to go with a smaller grout line. I haven't installed 12x24 tiles before so am definitely going to be looking into ways to avoid the lippage you describe. I figure if I can lay ~2000SF of Saltillo tile, I can figure it out!

 

[cbracer]

Yeah I'd recommend not doing rectified because you will end up with a lip that chips. I did and spend ages making grout lines that filled it in and scraping grout after it dried. Not fun.

 

[2slow]

Tiles are ordered.

12x24 rectified.

I am having a pro do the install.

New thread here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4383481#post4383481