Surface Plate steel or cast 3 x 4 foot? maintenance and best uses?

[drivesitfar]

I'm about ready to move this surface plate into my smallish shop and looking for some ideas on how to use it. i'm guessing it weighs about 1300 pounds because it is 5.5 inches tall and webbing is 3.75 inches so about a 1.75 solid steel (or is it cast iron) smooth surface plate. it is sitting on a stand and in the groove of the stand is a 3/4 inch piece of plywood. when i remove the surface plate off the stand to move it to my small shop can i replace the plywood with 1/2 or 3/4 inch rubber or is the plywood better. or can i just put the surface plate directly onto the metal stand?

I've read that many surface plates can be serviced to be accurate and wondering who would i contact to have do that work around the Seattle area and any idea of the cost to do that? and would i really need that done and for what reason?

i started a couple threads about how to move it and also how to use it so attaching links for others to see what other information is available on GJ about Surface plates. they are buried and thought a title change might help in both the responses and for others to search for in the years to come.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=257319&highlight=surface+plate

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258318

i had to buy a pallet jack so when i get it in the shop i can move it around. i also bought a Jet pallet jack lift i found that was reasonable so i won't need to hire a fork lift driver for a few hours to lift the plate off my trailer. Hopefully i can accomplish this myself and not regret not hiring a fork lift and driver for a few hours. i decided to have the seller use his fork lift to lift the table off the stand and i'll place it on a pallet to transport it on my little trailer. My thinking is that i can move it easier and not worry about a 1500 pound table tipping over on or in my trailer or while unloading off my trailer.

anybody own one of these surface plates or use one at work to let me know a few more things i can use it for than just a nice solid work bench?

Any maintenance tips appreciated and some of the uses would be nice to know if any of you can share your thoughts.

 

[drivesitfar]

Here's the Jet pallet jack lift i'm planning on unloading the pallet with the surface plate off my trailer. see any issues with that method? i'm planning on putting maybe 500 pounds of weight plates in a crate in the front of my trailer so i can move the pallet with the plate on it to the end of the trailer.

once i get it on the ground i'll move it around with this pallet jack which is rated for i think 5500 pounds. putting the surface plate back on the stand inside my shop will be with the pallet jack lift that also has a table attachment so i can make up some sort of wood piece to set on it so i can drop it in place easily.

my little aluminum trailer is rated for 5000 pounds so 2000 pounds shouldn't be an issue for the 30 mile trip.

thanks in advance for all your thoughts and help.

 

[Fcvapor05]

I can't speak to how much it would cost to have the plate checked and re-lapped in your area, but I can tell you that a known dead flat surface is ALWAYS more useful than a surface that isn't flat, or a surface that has unknown flatness.

If you're doing a lot of fabrication now, or plan to learn to fabricate in the future, a very flat surface that is strong and stiff is extremely useful for fixturing and layout. If you're doing a lot of auto restoration or repair, a very flat table is again extremely useful- you can check flatness of gasket surfaces, measure very precisely from the known datum of the table surface, etc.

The moral of the story is, a very flat surface is never going to be a bad thing to have around. Around here, it would cost a couple hundred bucks to have someone come out and inspect/correct a surface of that size. To me, it would be money well spent.

 

[Packard V8]

1. It's 99% likely to be cast iron.

2.Having been around a few of these, even after moving, it's most likely still going to be more accurate than anything our OP is going to be able to fab on it and measure in a home shop.

A lab-grade surface plate of that size, lapped to be of a guaranteed level of flatness, is not usually used on a moveable table. It's almost always mounted on a huge heavy fixed base, usually direct into the foundation and itself leveled before the surface plate is mounted and leveled.

The moveable table is for nearest thousandth on an inch fabrication and metrology and good enough for most home workshops.

3. You may be overthinking the move. I've thrown several machines with similar weight distribution into the back of a pickup or on a trailer, put a few straps on it and driven hundreds of miles with no problem.

If your tie-down rail are strong enough and you use enough straps, the table won't be going anywhere.

jack vines

 

[EOC_Jason]

^^^ I wouldn't bother with trying to get it checked out. Unless you are inspecting parts to .00001 tolerance.... As is, it's probably infinity more "flat" than any other table around.

 

[drivesitfar]

FCVapor: thanks for the information and my thoughts exactly that the surface plate would look better in my shop/garage than in somebody else's if i didn't buy it.

Packard: Jack thanks for the information. yes i'm probably over thinking the surface plate move, but i don't have any tie downs on my 4 x 8 aluminum trailer. my plan is to repaint the stand either green/yellow or black/gold and then shine up the surface plate so getting it off the stand for the move will be one step taken towards the restoration process.

Jason: thanks for the good words and my thoughts exactly. if i really need it to be better than .0001 for any work in the future i'll gladly spend the money to make it that way. another reason i like this 1300 pound table is that it shouldn't tip over if i put a 150 pound vise on a trailer hitch type attachment to it. sort of like the hitch the vise is attached to in the picture.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Once you get it in position, I would at least level it. If you have any machinist friends you can borrow their precision levels, otherwise a regular one should be "good enough"... So at the very least things won't be rolling off the table.

How beefy is the cover for it? That looks like a decent piece of wood on top?

 

[drivesitfar]

Jason: thanks again for the well wishes and the plan was to grind off the old paint off the stand while the surface plate is on a pallet and either do the boiled linseed oil or some two paint colors. then put in it's spot i've made for it and level the stand before i put the plate back on it. then check level again after the plate is on the stand.

the cover seems to be pretty stout like the table, but i'll probably give it a new top and just refinish the frame on it.

 

[sberry]

I've read that many surface plates can be serviced to be accurate and wondering who would i contact to have do that work around the Seattle area and any idea of the cost to do that? and would i really need that done and for what reason?

You dont need to do anything to it. Being flat in general fab and repair isn't extremely critical. None of my benches are and its so rare it matters I would shim a bit if it did, not an issue on that though. Personally would find a steel top that overhangs. Great base to sit a 1/4-1/2 plate on.

Same for level, yes its nice stuff doesn't roll off but being precision is something you will soon forget. 99.5% of the worlds fab work is done with a combination and or speed square.

 

[sberry]

I like the dimensions in the 3rd pic in post 6. The fabrication is beautiful but it isn't what I would have built. I like the top but its ruined with the holes, the top of the frame is ok but would have used a 2 or 2 1/2 tube for the legs, about the same as the tie brace on the bottom, made the brace a little higher and 4 way using 2 inch angle toe up with expanded metal.
I understand the wheels, this is a problem. So is a vise. I would like it over the leg. I would trial and error some, bolt it down if I could live with it or add a tube, its all a problem not bolted down.
If it didn't need wheeled constant would probably have 2 steel wheels on axle on one end and capped post on the other end under the vise and use the shelf to snag with floor jack and a guy could drop a pin a hole in the floor to keep it from sliding around. .

 

[d.brown]

I've read that many surface plates can be serviced to be accurate and wondering who would i contact to have do that work around the Seattle area and any idea of the cost to do that? and would i really need that done and for what reason?

A surface plate isn't very useful unless it's flat & it will need to be flattened from time to time. Invest in a lapping plate (12"X12" would be a good size) & lapping compound. You make a slurry paste & move the lap over the plate in a circular motion until the color is even not staying in one place too long. Depending on the condition of your plate, you may have to go through several grits to get the final finish.
David

 

[sberry]

Benches usually found in small shops do multiple duty nut are one of the main features and usually called "the bench" welding or not. All the holes and machine work are expensive parked effort that anyone wondering if they need it probably doesn't. There are specialist fabricators, little different animals not usually diy/maintainenance types or even auto restoration.
Another issue is clamps. They cost a lot and its hard to get enough, the common C clamp and Visegrip 11R if possible. I am not sinking hundreds more in to clamps that fit one bench. I would trade all those they invented for another half a dozen common ones in bigger sizes and a couple ruined ones to make special needs with.
I wouldn't be against a hole or 2 along the edge for something I can up with but a solid top is a thing of beauty and don't mean fine finish but one where dirt, welding bb's grinding grit and dust or a spilled coffee doesn't run thru it to the fixtures I have stored under it.

 

[sberry]

No where to clamp to. The frame its on is great. Get a common plate about 8 inches longer and 6 wider toss over the top and tack some clips to frame. The top would be great ballast, great support.
Maybe I am missing something though from a couple threads but what was the intent of the thing anyway?

anybody own one of these surface plates or use one at work to let me know a few more things i can use it for than just a nice solid work bench?

I would see if I could trade it for a steel plate.

 

[d.brown]

Maybe I am missing something though from a couple threads but what was the intent of the thing anyway?

Typically a surface plate is used in a machine shop setting. One of many uses would be with a height gage to scribe parts. That operation requires an angle plate which also needs to be flat & at 90 degrees. I have a cast iron (which your is) surface plate (smaller than yours at 16"X22") in the shop & have found it very useful.

David

 

[sberry]

I know what the plate is for was wondering what use it would be to the OP? I almost never use one and my guy uses the drill press table on occasion to fuss a little but outside a real machine shop the need generally wouldn't warrant the investment. I know a couple real welding shops would be glad to dump theirs for a piece of what they got in to them, seemed like a good idea at the time but never were used.

 

[d.brown]

I know what the plate is for was wondering what use it would be to the OP?

Ok apologies for mis-attributing the quote then. If a tape measure will suffice, then a surface plate will be of no real value to the op. A fabricating surface it isn't.

 

[sberry]

A fabricating surface it isn't.

Yes, this is a reality.

 

[A_Pmech]

I know what the plate is for was wondering what use it would be to the OP?

I suppose that depends on the OP.

As far as a fabricating surface, I've turned out a LOT of work from my 4' x 6' cast iron surface plate. It's been exceptionally useful as a low-grade reference surface for fabricating work. Besides that, mine weighs about 3,500 pounds and makes for great deadweight with a 6" vise mounted to the surface. As an extra bonus, welding slag sticks poorly to cast iron.

Cast iron surface plates are obsolete as high-grade flatness standards. Granite can be made flatter, is more temperature stable, doesn't burr and has a couple billion years of stress relief.

 

[drivesitfar]

Sberry: i'm not sure exactly what i'm going to use this surface plate for and was looking to see what others use theirs for and see if that is something i would or could use mine for. it's overkill for my little shop, but it needed a good home and i do like big steel items.

i've picked up a couple 29 x 63 inch 3/4 inch thick steel plates that i'm going to make a few tables similar to the white one in the pictures so i can move them around or outside if i have something large where they are needed.

DBrown: thanks for the tip on how to spiff my surface plate up and what i might be able to use to do so. also any more comments you might have please share on all the things i can use this awesome table for are appreciated.

ALL: i still have a question on whether i can replace the 3/4 inch plywood with rubber that the surface plate sits on when it's on the stand. picture attached might show the plywood better that i'm talking about.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

Sberry: i'm not sure exactly what i'm going to use this surface plate for and was looking to see what others use theirs for and see if that is something i would or could use mine for. it's overkill for my little shop, but it needed a good home and i do like big steel items.

i've picked up a couple 29 x 63 inch 3/4 inch thick steel plates that i'm going to make a few tables similar to the white one in the pictures so i can move them around or outside if i have something large where they are needed.

DBrown: thanks for the tip on how to spiff my surface plate up and what i might be able to use to do so. also any more comments you might have please share on all the things i can use this awesome table for are appreciated.

ALL: i still have a question on whether i can replace the 3/4 inch plywood with rubber that the surface plate sits on when it's on the stand. picture attached might show the plywood better that i'm talking about.

If you are looking for rubber to replace the plywood with consider stall mat. It does not compress much, comes in thick sections, is easy to cut and is cheap. Your local TSC or other farm store should sell it. I have my Quincy compressor and my front load washer/dryer on it. Makes a good cutting edge for snow blades too.

 

[d.brown]

Yes, this is a reality.

Do you know why that is a reality?

 

[sberry]

Sure I can see a guy using it, I agree nice shock sink under another plate. In the OP's case the price was right, he wants it, great. I just caution others that don't know that they wont see a huge flash of light by going out on a limb for this. Great when its cheap or free and a good learning curve.

 

[sberry]

Do you know why that is a reality?

Yes I do. I have seen about every which way you can do this and have seen more than one shop where an owner came toting something home like this from an auction, never seen it where it soon wasn't in the way and piled with shate. Its the reason its getting a new owner. The old one realizes he has been walking around it for the last 20 yrs.
In five years the OP will have used the floor jack and forks he got to move it for 100 other things, that I could almost bet on, it will be the most profitable aspect of this job.

 

[drivesitfar]

AP: thanks for the good words.

WWN: yes i sell gym equipment and refer a lot of my clients to buy horse mats for their gyms. I have cut a few in my days and i have plenty of the 3/4 inch thick pieces around my house and shop. i thought having rubber instead of plywood might work best since my shop is not heated when i'm not working inside it. thanks for the tip though and just wondering if there was a specific reason for plywood or if rubber is ok to put in its place.

 

[sberry]

Wood is good for shock.

 

[drivesitfar]

SB: it actually came from a shop where they upgraded to granite and the guys using it didn't want to see it go. sure there is a chance it might not get used in my shop much, but either will my huge vises until i need them. I'm happy for you if you use every tool or piece of equipment you buy and at times i wish i was more like that.

I wasn't planning on doing any welding on it until i just heard from AP that it's ok and that it's easier to clean up than off a steel bench.

ALL: keep those thoughts and ideas coming because its on its way into my life in a few days.

 

[d.brown]

It's rarely a good idea to use something for other than it's intended purpose. The answer is, cast iron is noticeably softer than even mild steel & castings by nature don't lend itself to impact work.....have a tendency to crack. A good example would be the used vises we all run across that have been used as an anvil. To the op, I can't think of a good shop use for your plate other than what it was designed for. My business was woodworking for the last 40 years but now enjoy metalworking as a hobby. Never know.....might be something you take up in the future.

 

[sberry]

I'm happy for you if you use every tool or piece of equipment you buy and at times i wish i was more like that.

The reason I know some of this is that I have done it wrong as many times as right. We like to show our best here but I got some losers too. I know the same thing when a hobby type figures out he just cant live without an SA200 Lincoln.
Again, nothing wrong with it, you asked if there were good use for it, the answer would be yes and no and if the question was worded a bit different,, is it something I need? Different answer. As you said, the previous owner just hated to see it scrapped,,, but wasn't worth the space evidently?

 

[sberry]

It would probably drill and tap pretty easy?

 

[A_Pmech]

It's rarely a good idea to use something for other than it's intended purpose. The answer is, cast iron is noticeably softer than even mild steel & castings by nature don't lend itself to impact work.....have a tendency to crack. A good example would be the used vises we all run across that have been used as an anvil. To the op, I can't think of a good shop use for your plate other than what it was designed for. My business was woodworking for the last 40 years but now enjoy metalworking as a hobby. Never know.....might be something you take up in the future.

Cast iron welding platens have been used in heavy fabrication environments for as long as electric welding has been around.

As-cast gray iron is also generally harder than A-36 steel.

 

[Steinmetz]

Sberry: i'm not sure exactly what i'm going to use this surface plate for and was looking to see what others use theirs for and see if that is something i would or could use mine for. it's overkill for my little shop, but it needed a good home and i do like big steel items.

i've picked up a couple 29 x 63 inch 3/4 inch thick steel plates that i'm going to make a few tables similar to the white one in the pictures so i can move them around or outside if i have something large where they are needed.

DBrown: thanks for the tip on how to spiff my surface plate up and what i might be able to use to do so. also any more comments you might have please share on all the things i can use this awesome table for are appreciated.

ALL: i still have a question on whether i can replace the 3/4 inch plywood with rubber that the surface plate sits on when it's on the stand. picture attached might show the plywood better that i'm talking about.

I'm wondering why you are obsessing over the plywood supporting members. They seem to provide firm but resilient support, and best of all, they are already there.

 

[d.brown]

Cast iron welding platens have been used in heavy fabrication environments for as long as electric welding has been around.

As-cast gray iron is also generally harder than A-36 steel.

Not sure what that means or know what a cast iron welding platen is but cast iron is a mixture of metals so it's hard to generalize about it's hardness. Add to that the air pockets that develop during the manufacturing process you have a somewhat softer material that tends to crack when struck. That has been my personal experience.....yours may vary.

 

[A_Pmech]

Not sure what that means or know what a cast iron welding platen is but cast iron is a mixture of metals so it's hard to generalize about it's hardness. Add to that the air pockets that develop during the manufacturing process you have a somewhat softer material that tends to crack when struck. That has been my personal experience.....yours may vary.

Cast iron is.... Cast Iron. While it is relatively brittle, it is successfully used in many impact applications in large cross sections.

Casting voids are a sign of poor quality castings. Iron is notch sensitive and casting voids substantially increase the impact sensitivity of the material.

 

[dr_clyde]

I would use a table like that for a general fab table. Small cast tables are awesome for laying out frames and other stuff where its super handy to have a flat surface. I would love a small cast table like that.

If you plan to do any machine work, grab a height gage and some dykem and you can lay out parts on it. Home shops usually don't need to hold tenths anyway. Use the heck out of it.

 

[oldldh]

I didn't know I needed one of those...

You are not a nice person...

 

[drivesitfar]

SB: this particular surface plate never had a chance to be a scrapped piece and i'm happy to say i was in line first for it. sad to know that so many of the great machines of the past are scrapped because they didn't find a good home where someone could make or try to make use of it.

Stein: i'm taking the surface plate off the stand to move it so the plywood will be accessable and even if i were to move the stand with the surface plate on it i'd still want to take it off to take that stand down to bare metal and clean it up like new. i wasn't obsessing and just trying to find any comments telling me that rubber wouldn't work because i have a ton of 3/4 inch scraps laying around. also plywood in our part of the world in an unheated space will eventually fail and i'm planning on being buried with this one.

Oldie: what can i say if you are talking to me, but sorry and your search begins for one of your own.

All: so I haven't heard yet that i should use a power tool to clean the surface plate up so i'm guessing just to do so by hand? any more good thinking minds to share what they know are always appreciated.

 

[drivesitfar]

Dr.: thanks for the positive post and yes exactly what i'm hoping to do.

 

[dr_clyde]

How to clean your plate depends on what you're end goal is. I would use scotchbrite on a sheet sander, personally. It takes a ton of work to remove actual measurable metal with scotchbrite, and it does a good job of brightening up cast surfaces. I believe its what AP_Mech did to his table.

But if you want to spend the coin, and really want it really flat and shiney again, you could always have it re-ground. Plate that size would run you a couple hundred bucks. Probably not worth it for your app.

 

[drivesitfar]

Dr.: i just might have an old Craftsman sheet sander on a shelf and i'll buy some scotchbrite and shine the surface plate up. i was thinking of using johnson paste wax to keep the rust at bay or would boiled linseed oil or WD 40 or some other product be better?

 

[dirtydogintex]

I didn't know I needed one of those...

sorta like a mine shaft gap?




always thought a cast surface plate would make a helluva fab/work table top....