How to finish inside?

[Repsolracer22]

Hey guys these are a few pics of the inside of my 40x60. Probably standard looking. Anyways, I'm gonna go with batt insulation in walls and blown cellulose on ceiling. To install the batts and be able to prepare walls to accept the metal wall liner, what needs to be done? The builder wants $17k to finish the inside. Seems high for just screwing on metal walls and ceiling. That price included insulation too but damn

Anyways, he mentioned the next step is putting in horizontal studs or perlins or something? Make sense? I told him I want to get a guy to install insulation and he said "ok, but we gotta come in & stud it out first" ... What all is involved in what he's talking about? How much work we talking?


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[Repsolracer22]

Anyone have any pics of what the next step will look like from what I have now but just before insulating?


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[rburke65]

Interior walls will have to be constructed from 2x4"s or 2x6"s .... just like you were building a house. You will need a 2"x every 16" and the batt insulation will be attached to the studs. Hopefully you have your trusses every 16" or 24" and that they were engineered for the weight of the ceiling and insulation. You should be able to do a "search" for pole barns on here and find enough reading and pictures to entertain yourself for months. Good luck.

 

[Repsolracer22]

More pics of inside .....




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[Joe G.]

Mine is just about exactly like this, so I'm curious as to what you're going to do as well.

First question - why build extra studs between the main posts? My understanding is you can get 7'6" wide insulation to go between the 8' wide main posts.

Everything I've read said the "best" option is to spray foam the exterior walls, but I know there's no way I can afford that right now. I did it last year when we built the house, but the barn is just that - storage for the yard stuff, fun cars, and other stuff the Mrs doesn't want in "her garage" (ie: the attached 3 car). I may do some work out there from time to time, but it's definately not a building I'm going to kept heated or cooled all the time, so basic insulation is my main goal.

 

[Joe G.]

More pics of inside .....

Assume you have a ridge vent on the roof? If so, just make sure you have rafter vent chutes.

 

[bgarrett]

If you are standing roofing metal vertically for walls, just add horizontal wood 'purlins' to attach the tin to

 

[Repsolracer22]

I need to specifically know what needs to be done at this point. The builder is trying to charge me $17k to finish the inside and that seems excessive.

Pics are attached of what the inside walls look like currently.

So to install any kind of insulation, I need to have this framed up first correct? What about that white vinyl backed insulation and no finishing walls? If I went that route, would there need to be a different type of framing needed?

 

[Burb]

Like others have said, you basically need to attach 2x4's horizontally every 2', then run the insulation sideways.

$17k might seem like a lot, but you're probably looking at $5k worth of steel, $1k worth of 2x4's, and a couple grand for the insulation at least. I did mine all myself cuz I'm a cheap *** though.

 

[Repsolracer22]

But what about skipping the metal inside and doing those white vinyl backed insulation blankets? What are pros/cons to those? If those were used, it would save me the metal on inside and still look decent. Would the same type/style framing have to be done for this?


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[Burb]

I guess it depends on what you plan on doing in your barn. I plan on doing a lot of welding/ grinding, so I'd rather have the metal, and it's pretty much maintenance free, don't have to re-paint or anything. The only down fall to the steel that I can see(besides price) is that I'm really hesitant to put any holes in it to hang stuff from until I figure exactly where everything is going to go.

 

[Elmo4895]

Considering your proposed usage of the building I would just put up the white styrofoam fastened to the outside purlins. Use the plastic nailers to keep the screws or nails from punching through the insulation. If you ever decide to finish the walls just put 2x6 purlins inside and attach whatever wall covering you choose.
Elmo

 

[ABADWILLYS]

Just like Burbs response above, i did the exzact same thing..My 40x60 was just like yours and i framed horizontally hung batts in sideways, my walls are 12 ft, i did 8ft in metal and the lower 4' in OSB, it was really no big deal, and it turned out great!!
here you can get the idea

i dont have recent pics the bottom is now gray and seperated by a red stripe

 

[NUTTSGT]

Are you planning on running the electric as romex (NM) in the walls or putting conduit up after the walls are done. If you are doing "in wall" wiring, is this being taken into consideration by the builder in his bid ?

Honestly, the insulating, interior framing and hanging the interior panels is relatively easy. It doesn't take alot of skill and there's no way in hell I would pay somebody 17 grand to do it. The hardest part will be doing the ceiling and getting a friend/family member to help you do it.

I'd guess the builder knows winter is coming on real fast and looking for inside work if he is pushing you.

 

[scoob8000]

I'm in the same spot..

I actually just priced out the wood today to run horizontal girts every 2 ft inside and also to build a 2x4 24'oc studded wall. The studded wall, even though being 24oc is still going to be stronger. Also works out to be cheaper by a small bit.


www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4386433

 

[Repsolracer22]

At this point, studding it out horizontally seems like the way to go. But maybe spacing them 4ft would be better and half the lumber & labor. And just use 4ft vinyl backed insulation. I'm assuming this is available in r19?


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[Repsolracer22]

Have your builder do an exact break down.
does your estimate just say "finish interior $17,000¿"

Until you know what he's planning....

Proposal was $17.4k

For "studding out, installation of r19 batts, r38 blown fiberglass in ceiling, and install steel liner for walls and ceiling. No electricity.

Lumber should be less then $1000. Insulation parts & labor should only be $3000. So this steel must be pretty pricey.


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[alan camby]

I did the horizontal setup like others have posted pictures here. I nailed a long 2x4 vertically on the side of my 4x6 post. This vertical 2x4 is spaced back 1-1/2". This allowed me to have my wall flush with the 4x6. I still had plenty of room to fit r19 between the outside wall and new horizontal studs I installed. I ran the 23" wide bats vertical between the walls. I put up plastic vapor barrier then white barn steel.

I was concerned with the vertical stud method I have seen other do on the forum. If someone were to do vertical studs, would you run them to a treated 2x4 plate that anchors to the concrete floor? Then what about frost heave? If my wall is attached to the barn at the ceiling and the concrete at the floor, will it bind? My floor is just a slab without footers.

 

[Cushak]

I was concerned with the vertical stud method I have seen other do on the forum. If someone were to do vertical studs, would you run them to a treated 2x4 plate that anchors to the concrete floor? Then what about frost heave? If my wall is attached to the barn at the ceiling and the concrete at the floor, will it bind? My floor is just a slab without footers.

If frost heave is a concern you can float your bottom plate up 1/2". As long as your studs are solid to the exterior purlins, they will carry the weight of any interior finishing. If you're wanting to put a lot of weight on a wall (hang some equipment) you could then leave a 1/2" gap between the top plate and your truss chords. This totally depends on your soil, climate pad etc though - don't take my word for it. I don't have much experience with pole barns, the 1/2" gap is just rule of thumb for basement walls in my area to prevent problems.

Repsolracer, if you're worried this contractor is overcharging, just call around and get quotes from a few other outfits. Just don't necessarily go with the cheapest guy, talk to them, see if they return phone calls within a reasonable time period etc.

 

[MagKarl]

I like to say being cheap is hard work. If you want it to look nice, your options are to do it yourself and save big $$, or pay someone to do it if you can't or won't work hard enough to do that job in your spare time with the same or better attention to detail as a pro would show.

You don't seem interested in the DIY route even though folk here have posted pics of what your walls would need. I'm of the opinion that you should pay and get it done right in a timely fashion. Don't cheap out now and end up with an interior on your nice new building that looks half ***.

 

[Repsolracer22]

well at this point, we are breaking everything up into steps now. so right now he's gonna check on what JUST the framing will cost. I already know insulation will be about $3000. He said last night that all the lumber will be under $1000 ... so I cant imagine the labor to frame up the walls horizontally every 4 ft would be much.

 

[Flatland Dave]

Have the contractor do your ceiling. Have them do one sheet across if possible. Ceilings are a *****. If you do blow in, you might need plastic above the metal.

 

[sledwrenchin]

Here is mine, 8 foot wide batts R19, vapor barrier, 2x4's on 16 inch centers.

 

[Cushak]

What's your wall height? 10 feet? Was that 17k including covering the ceiling?

 

[Repsolracer22]

What's your wall height? 10 feet? Was that 17k including covering the ceiling?

12ft. yes it included metal ceiling & walls. and blown insulation in ceiling and batts on walls.

 

[Repsolracer22]

Here is mine, 8 foot wide batts R19, vapor barrier, 2x4's on 16 inch centers.

yeah, i talked to my builder and he said if we space them 4ft instead of 2ft, it would save 50% labor and 50% lumber. and then we could just get 4ft wide white vinyl backed batts

 

[Repsolracer22]

i called an insulation place that sells 4in wide vinyl backed R19. i told them that my builder wants to do the framing horizontally and they acted like that will be impossible ....

 

[Cushak]

Did store say why it would be a problem, or had they just never heard of someone doing it? Depends. If there is a lip for stapling onto stud faces like some paper backed insulation then I don't see what the problem would be without trying it out. If it normally relies on a friction fit vertically, then I could see the batts sagging because they are so wide, creating air gaps along the top edge of each batt between the horizontal member. Which is no good. Again, depends exactly on the insulation. Some insulation, like Roxul is very rigid, you can lean a batt against a wall, stand it on end, and it holds it's shape. Some folds like a wet paper bag. If it's normal r19 fiberglass, I wouldn't trust to not sag in a 4' horizontal section. Unless the vinyl backing adds a lot of rigidity. Ask your builder his opinion of what the insul place had to say, and ask if he's done anything like that specifically before. If he has, he'd be able to definitively say how it turned out in the past. If not, I'd be curious as to why the insulation shop is saying it'd be a problem, and he's not. Someone's wrong, and it's your pocketbook.

For 12' walls, a shop your size, 17k including materials isn't a price that immediately strikes me as a ridiculously high. Did you contact any other contractors for a quote? One thing to keep in mind, most people in their minds oversimplify a construction task. There's very few tasks as simple as A,B,C. Often there's double the amount of work put into behind the scenes prepwork, or the small details that are important to a job well done. When I'm doing basements, the difference between an 8' and 9' ceiling seems small, but it costs me a disproportionate amount of time for such a small change. (I can reach 8' with no ladder/step stool) For boarding/sheathing garages, the difference between 10' and 12' means going from sawhorse ladders and planks to larger rolling metal scaffolds, again a cost in both time and more expensive equipment. Just things to keep in mind. Unless you have good experience at a task and take into consideration all the overhead a business can face, often the only way to judge a price is quotes from multiple sources.

 

[Repsolracer22]

Did store say why it would be a problem, or had they just never heard of someone doing it? Depends. If there is a lip for stapling onto stud faces like some paper backed insulation then I don't see what the problem would be without trying it out. If it normally relies on a friction fit vertically, then I could see the batts sagging because they are so wide, creating air gaps along the top edge of each batt between the horizontal member. Which is no good. Again, depends exactly on the insulation. Some insulation, like Roxul is very rigid, you can lean a batt against a wall, stand it on end, and it holds it's shape. Some folds like a wet paper bag. If it's normal r19 fiberglass, I wouldn't trust to not sag in a 4' horizontal section. Unless the vinyl backing adds a lot of rigidity. Ask your builder his opinion of what the insul place had to say, and ask if he's done anything like that specifically before. If he has, he'd be able to definitively say how it turned out in the past. If not, I'd be curious as to why the insulation shop is saying it'd be a problem, and he's not. Someone's wrong, and it's your pocketbook.

For 12' walls, a shop your size, 17k including materials isn't a price that immediately strikes me as a ridiculously high. Did you contact any other contractors for a quote? One thing to keep in mind, most people in their minds oversimplify a construction task. There's very few tasks as simple as A,B,C. Often there's double the amount of work put into behind the scenes prepwork, or the small details that are important to a job well done. When I'm doing basements, the difference between an 8' and 9' ceiling seems small, but it costs me a disproportionate amount of time for such a small change. (I can reach 8' with no ladder/step stool) For boarding/sheathing garages, the difference between 10' and 12' means going from sawhorse ladders and planks to larger rolling metal scaffolds, again a cost in both time and more expensive equipment. Just things to keep in mind. Unless you have good experience at a task and take into consideration all the overhead a business can face, often the only way to judge a price is quotes from multiple sources.

I dont want another contractor. My guy is good, honest, and does professional work. However, I hate that there's never any conversation about 'options'.

FOr example ... this estimate to finish everything is $17k right? Ok, well We just recently had the conversation about the stud out and making it spaced 4ft apart instead of 2ft apart. I initiated this conversation and asked the questions about this .... and I asked about the spacing because of the research I did. I know virtually nothing about buildings, he's the pro remember? He was like "if you want it spaced 4ft apart that would save you $5000 off of the estimate" ....... WHAT!!!???? Why in the **** wasn't that discussed or brought to my attention in the beginning? He just acted like he was ok either way with the spacing. He didnt mind which direction we went with it. But it was ME who had to do the research, ask questions, dissect everything, etc etc etc etc.

NOOOOWWW the numbers are as follows:

$2500 to completely stud out the walls w/ 4ft spacing. This includes labor for 4 guys for an entire day, nails, and all lumber. $2500 and its all studded out. Not bad

Insulation looks like its going to be about $3000 for the 4ft wide vinyl backed R19 batts. These are 6" thick. This is the good vinyl with the 3in flaps that allow you to staple onto stud. This is the insulation and the labor to install. So now we're at $5500 for the walls studded and insulated.

So now we have the install of the metal liner ceiling & possibly walls. Maybe just leave walls as is with the exposed vinyl backed insulation? Not sure how much this costs yet. But I can get the R38 fiberglass or cellulose blown on the ceiling very easily and cheaply. I can do that myself or very cheaply by someone. So Im not even adding this in at this point. So all we really need the cost on is doing a metal liner on walls and ceiling. What should this cost? Ceiling should be 40x60 like the concrete floor and there's 2180sq ft of walls after subtracting the garage doors.

 

[Repsolracer22]

Have the contractor do your ceiling. Have them do one sheet across if possible. Ceilings are a *****. If you do blow in, you might need plastic above the metal.

can you explain what you mean by 'one sheet across' ?

 

[Cushak]

I dont want another contractor. My guy is good, honest, and does professional work. However, I hate that there's never any conversation about 'options'.

FOr example ... this estimate to finish everything is $17k right? Ok, well We just recently had the conversation about the stud out and making it spaced 4ft apart instead of 2ft apart. I initiated this conversation and asked the questions about this .... and I asked about the spacing because of the research I did. I know virtually nothing about buildings, he's the pro remember? He was like "if you want it spaced 4ft apart that would save you $5000 off of the estimate" ....... WHAT!!!???? Why in the **** wasn't that discussed or brought to my attention in the beginning? He just acted like he was ok either way with the spacing. He didnt mind which direction we went with it. But it was ME who had to do the research, ask questions, dissect everything, etc etc etc etc.

Ya I understand. Some contractors are like that, if they're asked to do a job, there is a normal way of doing it and they don't even consider other options themselves, that's "just how it's done". Other guys do more 'consulting'. On the other hand, I get customers who don't want to be overwhelmed by choices and decisions, they just want it done the 'normal' way.

NOOOOWWW the numbers are as follows:

$2500 to completely stud out the walls w/ 4ft spacing. This includes labor for 4 guys for an entire day, nails, and all lumber. $2500 and its all studded out. Not bad

Insulation looks like its going to be about $3000 for the 4ft wide vinyl backed R19 batts. These are 6" thick. This is the good vinyl with the 3in flaps that allow you to staple onto stud. This is the insulation and the labor to install. So now we're at $5500 for the walls studded and insulated.

So now we have the install of the metal liner ceiling & possibly walls. Maybe just leave walls as is with the exposed vinyl backed insulation? Not sure how much this costs yet. But I can get the R38 fiberglass or cellulose blown on the ceiling very easily and cheaply. I can do that myself or very cheaply by someone. So Im not even adding this in at this point. So all we really need the cost on is doing a metal liner on walls and ceiling. What should this cost? Ceiling should be 40x60 like the concrete floor and there's 2180sq ft of walls after subtracting the garage doors.

If it were me I'd put something durable on the walls, in the very least put something up near your working areas. I don't know what the cost of tin for the ceiling would be, but labour, I dunno, upwards of $1500-$2500? I've done metalwork once, for roofing, two years ago. Can't remember it much haha.

 

[HotwheelsYJ]

Material to coat the whole thing in metal will be right around $3000. That's based on 3' wide panel @ $1.85 per lineal foot and no add in for trim pieces or labor

 

[BigGMC]

I was gonna chime in earlier to say that steel panel by me is 2.15/ft (varies all over obviously), and that's from a place that does nothing but steel roofs (mennonite family). Good quality stuff with a finish warrenty.

Repsol - in case you weren't aware, steel paneling is sold by the foot and is 3ft wide. You can usually get it in whatever length you can handle, but long pieces are a ***** to manuver overhead. Not terribly heavy, but they are not ridgid at all across thier width (perpendicular to the ribs).
Not gonna do 40' with a single panel, you're gonna have a couple seams, nothing wrong with that.
J channel is extra, as is the screws.... and there will be thousands of them!
So, you'll have a large sum of money in just metal material.

 

[Repsolracer22]

cant i just attach insulation for the walls now as is and not have it 'framed' for it? talked to a guy who sells insulation, and he said no need to frame anything. just hang it vertically like a curtain. he said you can attach it to the top and hang it. i sent him the pictures of my walls that i posted here in this thread and he said it can be done now as is

 

[Flatland Dave]

can you explain what you mean by 'one sheet across' ?

I have a 32 x 48 shop. The builder used onh sheet of tin that spanned the entire width of the building. No seam from using two pieces to cover the 32' width.