I have quite a few settling cracks around where one of the posts for my Maxjax is. I wish I would have taken a picture of the area when I put it in 6 years ago to compare the cracks. I probably should have some new concrete pads installed for the lift posts.
Cars falling off lifts - why?
- Thread starter EarlyBroncoGuy
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RedneckWelder
Well-known member
The saying "Complacency is a killer" may be cliche but it is true.
It is very easy to get so comfortable with stuff that you use frequently that you miss important details or steps.
The kind of mechanic work I do is extremely dangerous, and I try to watch my back at all times and be safe as possible when working. Not only do I want to live, but I also want to avoid pain and suffering from injuries, and I want to minimize wear and tear on my body so I can enjoy life later.
It is very easy to get so comfortable with stuff that you use frequently that you miss important details or steps.
The kind of mechanic work I do is extremely dangerous, and I try to watch my back at all times and be safe as possible when working. Not only do I want to live, but I also want to avoid pain and suffering from injuries, and I want to minimize wear and tear on my body so I can enjoy life later.
We had a R-Class slip off a couple years ago at work, back end fell straight down. Both of the arm pivot locks had years of use and slipped on the splines causing it to fall. I'm surprised it wasn't a G-class, a G55/G63 is about the scariest thing ever to lift on a 2 post.
that's a fairly short, box, full frame suv thing right? i wouldn't think they'd be that bad...
i got my 15k rotary in my bay at work, it won't lift everything, but for the big **** i work on, it's fine...when you shake the truck on the rack, the arms of the rack don't move, but you can feel the frame flexing on the rack haha...
i got my 15k rotary in my bay at work, it won't lift everything, but for the big **** i work on, it's fine...when you shake the truck on the rack, the arms of the rack don't move, but you can feel the frame flexing on the rack haha...
Dcampbell98xj
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I always made it a practice of lifting a car or truck just enough for the wheels to be off the ground and shake the car. If all my shaking doesn't cause the vehicle to move or shift the slightest I call it good. Shaking the vehicle before fully lifting let's the arms or pads settle. If your working under the vehicle removing items such as tires and motor, ******, axles, ect, the weight will shift I'd rather know a semi violent shake won't cause it to fall. And at a foot off the ground if something does give it won't be too expensive.
My story, around 1987 I working in the back of a Ford dealer refurbing used cars and rustproofing new ones. Paint packages and interior stain proofing, etc. I was 17.
Had a brand new Thunderbird Turbo Coupe up on a one post lift for rustproofing. I do remember it was dark blue metallic, leather and a 5 speed. Being independent rear suspension, the axle cradles on the lift rails I normally used didn't work as well. I don't remember how I rigged it any more, but lets just say it wasn't as stable as it should have been.
I had that Turbo Coupe in the air and hosing the undercarriage with rustproofing. A few minutes goes by and that car began sliding and falls to about a 30* angle before stopping, hanging by the passenger side wheels. I jumped out from underneath almost crapping my pants. Walked around to the front and SLOWLY lowered the lift.
Rearranged the car, paid just a tad more attention to getting it right and back up she went. Being 17, I finished the undercoating. I'm sure applying extra material to any visible scrapes, and never told a soul. Never heard a word about it.
I paid much more attention to lifting cars after that.
Had a brand new Thunderbird Turbo Coupe up on a one post lift for rustproofing. I do remember it was dark blue metallic, leather and a 5 speed. Being independent rear suspension, the axle cradles on the lift rails I normally used didn't work as well. I don't remember how I rigged it any more, but lets just say it wasn't as stable as it should have been.
I had that Turbo Coupe in the air and hosing the undercarriage with rustproofing. A few minutes goes by and that car began sliding and falls to about a 30* angle before stopping, hanging by the passenger side wheels. I jumped out from underneath almost crapping my pants. Walked around to the front and SLOWLY lowered the lift.
Rearranged the car, paid just a tad more attention to getting it right and back up she went. Being 17, I finished the undercoating. I'm sure applying extra material to any visible scrapes, and never told a soul. Never heard a word about it.
I paid much more attention to lifting cars after that.
another reason is some cars are junk we lifted one at work the other day sub frame front pinch weld back well after being in the air about 45 min i hear a pop sound and the 1/2 inch of bondo in the rear panel falls to the floor as the panel starts to buckle i ran to the release and dropped it to the ground before it could fold in half aparently it was rotted out and they did a piss poor job repairing it . then sent it thru the auction where my boss baught it thinking it looks nice and its cheap not so cheap now .
robalmal
Well-known member
Me too. Have done this for years and never seen a vehicle fall off a hoist.
Also while shaking it, I look at the hoist itself to see if there is any abnormal movement.
If I have to replace a clutch on a heavy 4x4, I would rather do in on the ground by pulling the engine out. Takes a bit longer but way safer, especially as I work on my own.
TheEquineFencer
Well-known member
Years ago at a Local Government garage, They had a single hydraulic system for all the inground lifts. I pulled a transit bus in to lift the entire bus. I centered the lifts under the front and rear axles and started to lift the bus, as the rams touched the bottom of the bus it wouldn't lift. I held the lever to try and lift it thinking the hydraulic system must be low on oil. I checked the hydraulic oil, it was full, tried it again. At the other end of the shop we heard a crash. Somebody during the day shift had flipped the lever on a single post lift that they had just parked a new F-150 over a floor ram. It was laying on it's side.
kaffine
Well-known member
Most I have seen in person have been pickups sliding backwards off the lift. This was caused by the lift arms not being placed correctly they were placed were the frame starts to bend up to go over the axle only making partial contact with the frame. We had 1 guy that had 4 or 5 trucks slide off the lift in the 2 years I worked in that shop. At one point before he lifted a truck he had to have the service manager come over and verify the lift setup.
The other one fell off when the engine or transmission was removed. That was done by an experienced mechanic that should have known better.
Thankfully in all of them I have seen no one was injured and only minor damage to the car/truck.
I have seen a few close calls when a safety lock was released on only 1 side.
The other one fell off when the engine or transmission was removed. That was done by an experienced mechanic that should have known better.
Thankfully in all of them I have seen no one was injured and only minor damage to the car/truck.
I have seen a few close calls when a safety lock was released on only 1 side.
Jvvmusme
Well-known member
I would say that wrong balance is an important cause.
Right or left
Front or rear
Not properly located pads
Right or left
Front or rear
Not properly located pads
Randy Kegg
Active member
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I think REDNECKWELDER is right on. "Familiarity breeds contempt" is a true statement. I was a professional mechanic back in the 1970's and I saw three lift accidents during that time. When you get in a hurry,(damn that flat rate!),
sometimes you forget that you have a 3 or 4 thousand pound object six feet up in the air. With a quality lift, the problem is almost always due to "cockpit" error. I have seen a few Chinese style lifts fail due to manufacturing defects on the internet. You have to stay focused on what you are doing. I don't have much experience with the two post lifts, but I am a little uncomfortable with the potential out of balance problem that could occur. It wouldn't keep me from buying one, though.
Randy
sometimes you forget that you have a 3 or 4 thousand pound object six feet up in the air. With a quality lift, the problem is almost always due to "cockpit" error. I have seen a few Chinese style lifts fail due to manufacturing defects on the internet. You have to stay focused on what you are doing. I don't have much experience with the two post lifts, but I am a little uncomfortable with the potential out of balance problem that could occur. It wouldn't keep me from buying one, though.
Randy
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
When I was a young brat the rule in granddad's shop (single post center lift, air over hydraulic and would lift an early 60's Caddi or Lincoln without a sneeze) was "6 inches and shove, 1 foot and shove again". If ANYTHING moved, the vehicle came down and he figured out what wasn't right. Do it again until it was stable and solid. I didn't even know how to turn a wrench yet and this was ingrained into me.
Years later, I was moonlighting at a tire & brake shop... the kids there would give me all kinds of grief when they saw me do that - said cars don't fall off lifts." (Even their "manager", who was a year younger than me)... not one week after I started, they lost a (formerly) beautiful Olds 98. I decided being around these safety braintrusts wasn't worth the extra few bucks I was bringing in from that dive.
Even at the truck shop, unless it was something simple (lube, pods, inframe, etc.) which we did in the air, we could put it in the air to loosen stuff up but we couldn't have it more than 6" off the ground to remove major components... they had engine hoists, chain falls, and transmission jacks, and we were expected to use them. Watched 2 new people - probably decent mechanics - get their last checks after the first time of being in a hurry and thinking they could get away with it. Boss said he didn't want to pay for their backs for the rest of his career.ZRX61
Well-known member
I guess they were out of really short bolts the day it was installed?
the turbo coupe was a solid 8.8 rear axle fox chassis.... 89 when the super coupe came out it went to the IRS. Sub frame rails for those, anyone who lifts a fox body by the pinch welds will see the front fenders buckle out.
I started out in a sears auto center, used to get **** all the time for checking stuff by raising it just off the ground and shaking it, we saw every make and model, over loaded sears service vans, guys coming in for free rebalance and rotations on rusted out plow trucks with the plow still on it etc you name it, it came threw the doors at some point. even had a pusher motor home that some idiot salesman sold rims too.... Never saw anyone drop one on my shift but a few did while I was working there on other shifts. The worst I saw in person was a kid driving over the base of the two post lift in a mid 90's thunderbird. He gassed it too hard trying to get it over the base of the lift and ran a coats wheel balancer threw a block wall into the storage area. I had just walked by it a few seconds before hand to get some tools on the other end of the shop.
32roadster
Well-known member
Get you a pair of the "truck adapters"...they're great.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Doesn't everyone just lift them 5-6 inches & then give them a shake before going all the way up?
Disney
Well-known member
I always get the car up afoot or so then bounce the manual valve while it's going up. Just a habit...
redmondjp
Well-known member
In my area (lots of tech workers with disposable income), it is the rear-engined exotic sports cars that can be very dangerous on a two-post lift. "Know-it-all" young technicians will often ignore the special lifting instructions (even if written IN ALL CAPS on the repair order) and get themselves in trouble and learn a very expensive lesson.
And as already mentioned, the other common problem job is the change in weight distribution when a front engine/transaxle cradle is lowered (or vehicle is raised up from). It seems that a majority of engines are now R&R'd from below.
I've worked in a local shop where the 'lift 6-12" off of the floor and shake the car' method was always used successfully.
Also, on lifting body-on-frame trucks and SUVs when you have to use those extensions to get up to the frame: some lifts have flip-up toggle-style extensions (vs. the fully vertical post or screw extensions) and you have to be really careful with those. We always made sure that the front and rear ones were flipped up in opposite directions - if they are oriented in the same direction and the vehicle is pushed or moved so as to flip all of the extensions down simultaneously, that can be a whole lot of not-good.
This is an excellent topic, especially for newbies in the field professionally, or for anybody who has or is considering a lift at their home shop.
And as already mentioned, the other common problem job is the change in weight distribution when a front engine/transaxle cradle is lowered (or vehicle is raised up from). It seems that a majority of engines are now R&R'd from below.
I've worked in a local shop where the 'lift 6-12" off of the floor and shake the car' method was always used successfully.
Also, on lifting body-on-frame trucks and SUVs when you have to use those extensions to get up to the frame: some lifts have flip-up toggle-style extensions (vs. the fully vertical post or screw extensions) and you have to be really careful with those. We always made sure that the front and rear ones were flipped up in opposite directions - if they are oriented in the same direction and the vehicle is pushed or moved so as to flip all of the extensions down simultaneously, that can be a whole lot of not-good.
This is an excellent topic, especially for newbies in the field professionally, or for anybody who has or is considering a lift at their home shop.
It also has to do with the engine placement. For example, jacking up a mid engine car is different than a fwd car. I've seen a picture of a Lotus that fell off the lift because the technician did not account for the heavier rear. In fact, he probably thought it was a cookie cutter FWD car.
nehog
Well-known member
Friend of my daughter brought a Ford Ranger PU in for a pre-purchase inspection. I threw it on the lift, and started to lift it. Stuff falling off as it went up was a major warning sign, the rear end falling off was the ultimate warning! When I saw the rear end start to come lose (both rear hanger were sheared off--rust) I let it down carefully, and drove it slowly out of the shop. I suggested it wasn't worth the work to fix... (The hangers can be gotten but the rest of the frame was punky...)
I sure as hell do.
mitchtr25068
Well-known member
I had just gotten my '68 triumph tr250 to maximum height with my maxjax two-post list in my garage when I heard a "pop" and all of a sudden the arms on one side started to come down quickly. It all happened before I had a chance to slide in the safety pipes that hold the arms from coming down. The car ended up balanced on the front and rear right side tires. Turned out the hydraulic fitting at the base of the post had failed and all the fluid leaked out. Minor body damage plus a busted reach shock after I dropped the car back on the other two wheels were all that happened,mbut this came just at the very end of a winter-long interior renovation project and needless to say was incredibly frightening and depressing. I replaced the fitting with higher quality hardware. The only lesson to learn is stand back, check fittings, use the safeties as soon as possible and always be prepared!
Rod N
Well-known member
Don't they have lifts were the safeties automatically lock as the lift goes up?
they all do, and all do mechanically...unless the idiot day laborers the company hired that your dealer hired to install the lifts didn't properly install those locks...we got two lifts at work that between them have 1 working lock...kinda damned scary when ya think about it...specially since i routinely put 9k plus pound trucks on one of them
Not all, I don't believe the MaxJax has automatic safeties.
i meant to say mechanically not manually haha...as in springs force them into position, not air or hydraulics that can fail
santagary
Well-known member
What about drive on four post lifts...aren't they safer and if you have a bridge jack, you can do anything you can do on a two post with arms can't you?
What about drive on four post lifts...aren't they safer and if you have a bridge jack, you can do anything you can do on a two post with arms can't you?
take up too much room, and are a pain in the *** to work under...imo anyway...they are nice because you basically have two giant workbenches either side of you, but getting the correct height is hard for me...low enough i can reach the parts i'm after, but high enough my fat *** can get under the damned lift comfortably...don't really have that problem on a 2 post
Farmall450
Well-known member
NorCalWrenchin
Well-known member
We have single center posts from the 80s where I work. Each of the four arms has a double sided flip foot with two heights. If you don't get them pushed back good they'll flip forward causing a bad situation. Our lifts also leak down since they're air over hydraulic and if you have an axle stand under a leaking lift I could see thAt pushing a car off...
APEowner
Well-known member
There's a certain amount of personal preference here. I happen to really like working off a 4 post for alot of stuff but some people really don't. However, there are some jobs that are either impractical or even impossible on a 4 post. Cab lifts and cradle drops come to mind right off. Engine removal is alot easier on a 2 post as welll.
dwysywd
Well-known member
This seems like a very active thread, so I will ask here. So I am considering a hobby lift in my new barn. Is the slab nough to mount to if I set the bolts in cement? I was considering putting a footer under the slab for additional reinforcement.
jsaw
Well-known member
When I was in school it was the beginning of the year, the teacher was discussing lift safety. We got a car up in the air on the lift, and one of the metal hydraulic lines blew out letting the car come down onto the safety latches.
Another time on my own lift, I was working under a vehicle and heard a loud hissing noise and the lift started to drop. A hydraulic hose ruptured. Fortunately the safety latches did their job
Another time on my own lift, I was working under a vehicle and heard a loud hissing noise and the lift started to drop. A hydraulic hose ruptured. Fortunately the safety latches did their job
Shadowdog500
Well-known member
Most have safeties that will automatically engage if the lift lowers. If you read the manual for a lot of lifts you will find that you are supposed to lower the lift onto the safeties before working under the car. Once it is on the safety it is mechanically locked like a jack stand. Until then the car can drop a few inches before reaching the safeties, which may be enough to have it hurt you or fall off the lift. I've seen some accidents online where a safety didn't engage which would be real bad.
Chris
Sad to tell you that putting bolts in Cement will do absolutely nothing to hold up a lift . . . . . that's because CEMENT is just powder !!!
. . You need to have CONCRETE floor to mount a MaxJack (minimum 4" or 5" thick, along with psi requirements).
Look at thread by Denwood titled something like "raise roof for $650" as he found dangerously thin concrete of around 2" thick !!
He cut out big chunk of garage floor and installed excellent setup for his MaxJack.http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263351&highlight=Max+Jack+$850
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dwysywd
Well-known member
Sad to tell you that putting bolts in Cement will do absolutely nothing to hold up a lift . . . . . that's because CEMENT is just powder !!!
You need to have CONCRETE floor to mount a MaxJack (minimum 4" or 5" thick, along with psi requirements).
I didn't mean to use the wrong term.
Yes. Concrete is what I'm going to use. And the entire floor in my current garage is 5" because I helped dig it out and set the rebar. So good to know that I am on the right track. I just wasn't sure if I need to set and fill tubes to create a deeper puller that I mount the lift on top.
Sent from my bag phone...
OP
EarlyBroncoGuy
King Of The World
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Most 2 post lifts recommend 4" minimum 2500 psi concrete under the posts, unless your pour was real wet or real dry, 5" should be fine.
When I had my forms built and my slab poured for my shop, I knew exactly where my lift would be and the post would end up, so I had them dig holes about 2 feet across and a foot deep right where the posts would be, and filled them in with rebar and mesh.
VictorBravo
Well-known member
Danmar doesn't recommend it:
http://www.maxjaxusa.com/faqs/installation.html
"Should I pre-mount the drop-in anchors in fresh concrete?
Although we don't recommend it, if you are careful to locate the anchors at precisely the correct spacing and depth, then this is an optional method of install. Mounting hole loctions can vary. Always consult concrete professional when installing new concrete and/or pre-mounting the drop-in anchors."
DangerousDan55
Well-known member
Jagmandave, that's a good practice that you do with your students. In the Fire/EMS classes we would go through skills testing. As we performed our task we were require to talk out loud what we were doing & the reason for any particular step during the whole task being performed.
Such as, "Just before & while I raise the ladder I am checking for obstructions & electrical power lines."
Such as, "Just before & while I raise the ladder I am checking for obstructions & electrical power lines."
zoomzoomjeff
Well-known member
My short time wrenching at an inde shop made me check, double-check, triple check, get my pants wet in the mud & slush to make sure everything was lined up. Still didn't like it.
I always used the 4 post with bridges or runners on them. Not as convenient but I could usually make things work out.
If I ever get one for my garage, I'll get a 4 post with front & rear bridge jacks. Just me.
I always used the 4 post with bridges or runners on them. Not as convenient but I could usually make things work out.
If I ever get one for my garage, I'll get a 4 post with front & rear bridge jacks. Just me.