Lithium Emergency Start Battery

[justsam]

I have been considering the purchase of one of these devices since reading of them here on the Journal. Does anyone have any counsel or comment on this one?

http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com/Red-Fuel-Lithium-Power-Pack-P249554.aspx?

I have always made it a habit to carry high quality jumper cables in each of my vehicles, which more often than not have been used to aid others.

As I reflect on it, it seems as if the need to help jump start others is waning. Is that because of AAA, I, and others are doing better battery maintenance, or I am associating with a different crowd that does not even understand jump start?

 

[rockwithjason]

most people just call somebody these days. i doubt that better battery maintenance has much to do with it, maybe better quality batteries does. I know several people who use similar jump packs and swear by them. I don't have one.

 

[aandpdan]

I'd just call someone too. I won't offer to jump someone I don't know.

Few people know how to correctly jump a car anyways. I don't want someone hooking up a cable wrong and damaging my electrical system OR have them blame me for damaging theirs.

Nope. That's what a cell phone and AAA or the equivalent are for.

 

[Big Thurs]

I have a pocket power (Rockford consumer products) that I use at work (honda technician). One of the best tools I have bought because I no longer need to search for one of those old lead acid jump boxes that always seem to "kind of" work. The only problem with it is you can't crank for very long, I think the manual says 30 seconds max. However, I have not needed to crank longer than that while being away from a charger. It also charges laptops and, of course, USB devices.
BUT, that being said I would not leave it in my car all the time due to the high summer temps here in central GA. I still have cables in my cars. I only leave the pocket power in the car if I'm out of town.

 

[mustangfan]

I have the Powerall, and it has come in handy more then once. My wife keeps it in her Jeep plugged in and she has helped out a couple people as well. For the $100 it cost, it has saved a lot on peace of mind knowing you have something there to help out when needed. I was skeptical about them, but when I got it, I put it on a 302 mustang and no other battery hooked up. It kranked it over for a good 20 seconds before I turned the key off. They are amaizing on what they can do for the size of them.

 

[ford33]

I have a Clore JNC660 'Jump-N-Carry' 1,700 Peak Amp 12-Volt Jump Starter and used it about five times last winter. I like it but it does require charging on a regular schedule.

The lithium units look nice and they are smaller and lighter in weight than the Clore.

 

[T-Mac]

I have the zeta zt50400-its amazing what this tiny jumper pack will do for something that will fit in your glove box-have used it a lot at work-like it a lot!

 

[purplezr2]

How do these work in the cold. When I say cold I mean -40F

 

[T-Mac]

How do these work in the cold. When I say cold I mean -40F

I'm sure a block heater and battery blanket would work much better!

 

[purplezr2]

I'm sure a block heater and battery blanket would work much better!

Not always an option, my car doesn't even have an option for a block heater.

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

As I reflect on it, it seems as if the need to help jump start others is waning. Is that because of AAA, I, and others are doing better battery maintenance, or I am associating with a different crowd that does not even understand jump start?

I credit the technology of the cars in todays world. Both my cars have auto headlights and the one will kill interior lights if left on too long. Seems like the two biggest reasons for dead batteries most of the time.

 

[rancherbill]

How do these work in the cold. When I say cold I mean -40F

If your vehicle is startable at -40 then they work very well. It will give you, as a guess, 45-60 seconds of cranking. Some engines don't want to start easily in the cold.

 

[T-Mac]

Not always an option, my car doesn't even have an option for a block heater.

I have put an old incandescent type shop light under my car on below zero nights-works well but -40 is pretty extreme

 

[btr598]

i have a jacko transnational think its zeta but its bad *** dont even carry a battery for the generator anymore just use it to start. and it will start all kind of stuff easy and has the option for cell phone charging or usb power supply. i will always have one now that i used one.

 

[kingnba6]

anti gravity micro start. hands down the best.

http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/

 

[garandman]

anti gravity micro start. hands down the best.

http://antigravitybatteries.com/microstart/

I've had one for almost a year, jump started many cars. We have a Clore JNC1700 but seldom use it as the MicroStart is so handy. My wife keeps it in her center console.

Absolutely terrific piece of gear.

 

[motofool33]

micro start is awesome we have tested it out on a few things,

 

[HOTFR8]

If it was me I would go for a bigger Jump Pack. I had one company I deal with tell me the lithium units have a shelf life of 6 months and if in that time you have not used it or charged it you may as well throw it away.

 

[Jacks3am]

The micro jump packs are badass, but they cant take alot of continuous jumps, as in 2-4 attempts. Great for a surge of power and portability but if you need something HD Dont fool yourself, get a larger jump pack!

 

[purplezr2]

If your vehicle is startable at -40 then they work very well. It will give you, as a guess, 45-60 seconds of cranking. Some engines don't want to start easily in the cold.

Audi a4 240k miles. Started at 32 to 38 below numerous times. Just worried the battery may get tired even though it's only 2 years old.

 

[eriksalo]

I used to work at a company that made technology for electric vehicles. We spent a lot of time on Lithium batteries. Here are some things that are true:

1) Most of the "old school" jump packs use Lead Acid AGM batteries.

2) AGM batteries are like regular lead acid batteries but better, longer life and some other good attributes.

3) As a class, lead acids perform well in cold temperatures. All batteries perform worse when they are cold but Lead Acid are much better in this area than Lithium Ion.

4) Lead Acid batteries are big and heavy.

5) The tiny new jump packs use Lithium Ion batteries.

6) Lithium Ion based batteries pack a huge amount of power into a small, light space compared to lead acids.

Example; the popular Clore JNC660 (AGM based) has an 18Ah battery and weights 20.6 pounds. The mPower jump (Lithium) has a 12Ah battery and weights 1.5 pounds.​

7) As a class, lithium ion batteries perform poorly in the cold, they need to be heated up to work at max current, etc.

8) Generally speaking, Lithium Ion batteries hold a charge (much) longer than Lead Acid batteries.

Lots of factors. If I were buying a unit to keep in the car or for casual use around the shop, I think I would get one of the small new lithium packs.

If I were buying a unit to be a shop workhorse or wanted to be able to revive my truck in the dead of winter, I would favor one of the AGM based packs like the Clore or Shumacker.

Erik

 

[Professur]

A couple of things to think about when looking at jump packs. Can you use it in your engine bay? Few of them have very long leads, so it's a balancing act somewhere in there. Fortunately with them all being sealed batteries, standing it upside down is an option ... but if it shakes loose and falls when the engine turns over ... oops. Personally, I like the option of switched clamps. Many jump packs (I think the JNC included) have the clamps hot at all times. I'd rather they were off. Switched ones nearly always have a 'reversed polarity' alert. Hot clamps ... your alert is that funny smell.

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B000T8SVTU/?tag=atomicindus04-20

I've had this ugly sumbeech in my trunk for some 20 years now. Dad bought it for me one christmas. Every 5 years it gets a new battery. That it's still for sale, unchanged 20 years later speaks volumes for me.

 

[ducksface]

http://www.hammacher.com/Product/Default.aspx?sku=84873&promo=Tested-Best&catid=62


because, inevitably, someone asks for a link instead of typing....

 

[the gypsy]

Well this is for the Canadian tire fans. As professur stated earlier, it is better when the booster pack is switched. I like my Nautilus battery pack(Canadian Tire Big Blue Jumper Pack) with their swich, hook it up no, need to worry about the cables touching and sparking, and then turn on the switch. Get in the vehicle, start it up, get out turn off the switch then remove the cables so there is no danger of sparking.

 

[Miss_Sissy]

I won't offer to jump someone I don't know.

You should be safe as long as you wear a condom.

 

[Miss_Sissy]

Lowe's has one on sale for $79 through the end of today. So move quickly if you want it.

 

[Top_Fuel]

Every jumper unit you see has a "peak amp" rating. I’m guessing the manufacturers use this value because it's roughly 4 times the actual cranking amp rating and seems impressive.

When comparing battery jumper boxes, I always thought the ONLY number you need to look at is how many CRANKING AMPS they produce?!?

Aren't cranking amps the REAL measure of how much power a battery will consistently deliver when you are trying to jumpstart a car?

Some manufacturers go out of their way to hide the cranking amp rating…or they don’t list it at all! I've NEVER seen a cranking amp rating on one of these Lithium power boxes. Why is that?!?

I have an "old-school" JNC660 unit that is rated at 425 Cranking Amps. This thing is a commercial quality jumper box and you'll see these around professional shops, used car lots, etc. It has never failed to start even the “deadest” (is that even a word?) battery. I also have a much smaller DieHard unit rated at 250 cranking amps. This can probably help start a car that just has a slightly run down (but not "dead") battery, but I'm not sure I would want to rely on it under more demanding conditions.

I’m not an electrical engineer. Someone set me straight on how a 13 oz lithium-ion battery that (maybe?) generates 90 cranking amps can advertise that it’s capable of starting the dead 750CCA battery in a V8 truck...multiple times?!?

 

[Trey T]

This is a different flavor lithium battery, called Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4). The lithium use for jumping car battery was introduced 5-6yrs ago on youtube by many RC car enthusiasts bc of its very high current discharge capacity. Your M18 battery cell can discharge a max of ~20A while the LiFePO4 can discharge twice the power and able to work at extreme temperature.

It can start a 4cylinder or 6Cyl OHC. I think it would struggle to start a push-rod engine bc those thing requires a lot of energy to start.

 

[Top_Fuel]

This is a different flavor lithium battery, called Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4).

Thanks for the info.

A quick search turned up this LiFePO4 battery. 360 Cold Cranking Amps and it weighs...2 pounds?!? Am I reading that right?!?!

 

[kingnba6]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ia5vUvDNwtk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This videos shows the ability of the MicroStart Lithium Jumper pack

 

[eriksalo]

I’m not an electrical engineer. Someone set me straight on how a 13 oz lithium-ion battery that (maybe?) generates 90 cranking amps can advertise that it’s capable of starting the dead 750CCA battery in a V8 truck...multiple times?!?

I can explain this. Think of a battery as a tank of gas with a hole in the bottom controlled by a valve. The tank holds a certain amount of gas. The hole in the bottom can let out gas at a certain rate when the valve is fully opened.

In a battery, the amount of energy the battery holds is quoted in Amp-Hours (or Ah) and the speed at which the current can be released quoted in some type of Amps. It's a bit of a game, the difference between CCA and Peak.

The way these little lithium batteries work is they "slowly" charge the big battery. Slowly usually only means a minute or two but they essentially "add gas to the tank" of the big battery. Keep in mind that the Lithium battery is on the order of 10x more power and weight dense compared to your lead acid unit so while it's still smaller in capacity than your regular battery, it's ~10x bigger than it seems.

When you start a vehicle, you only use a small amount of the total energy in the battery (e.g. only a small amount of the gas in the tank). That little bit of gas you added to your batteries tank is released at the big battery's rate and the car starts.

Kind of like putting a gallon of gas in your tank when you have run out of gas, it's enough to get you going.....

 

[Trey T]

by the look of it, yeah sounds about right. I haven't followed much of LiFePO4 because the A123 System company went bankrupt several yrs ago; it' probably one of the reason Dewalt went away w/ their first generation lithium battery.

Dewalt (black and decker) was the first adopter in cordless tool using LiFePO4 by A123 System but didn't last. Dewalt change their battery design to slide-on after that for their second generation lithium battery.

Thanks for the info.

A quick search turned up this LiFePO4 battery. 360 Cold Cranking Amps and it weighs...2 pounds?!? Am I reading that right?!?!

 

[Miss_Sissy]

by the look of it, yeah sounds about right. I haven't followed much of LiFePO4 because the A123 System company went bankrupt several yrs ago; it' probably one of the reason Dewalt went away w/ their first generation lithium battery.

LiFePO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) cells are really appealing for automotive applications because they are rugged and their charge voltage is very compatible with typical automotive applications. String three LiFePO4 cells in series and the typical regulated 14.4V you get from an alternator charges them quite well.

You will find them becoming a massive part of the motorcycle industry because they help us bikers lighten the bikes by a lot, usually up-high in the frame.

 

[Top_Fuel]

The way these little lithium batteries work is they "slowly" charge the big battery.

...When you start a vehicle, you only use a small amount of the total energy in the battery (e.g. only a small amount of the gas in the tank). That little bit of gas you added to your batteries tank is released at the big battery's rate and the car starts.

Kind of like putting a gallon of gas in your tank when you have run out of gas, it's enough to get you going...

Thanks for that explanation. That helps my understanding of these things tremendously.

So the way these devices work, their cranking amp rating isn't as important as their actual storage capacity (Amp-Hour).

Well...I just talked my father-in-law out of one of these things a couple of weeks ago. Guess I'd better get ready to eat some crow...

 

[kingnba6]

I actually just started a 2.4L car in 40F weather. The battery was completely dead that the doors would not unlock with the remote. The MicroStart XP1 didnt have a problem. And even after starting it, the battery level was full. The battery was fully charged with about 2 weeks of non use before starting the car.

 

[jaye944]

I've carried a spare battery pack and jump cables.

I've ALWAYS helped anyone who ask's or anyone I see.
If your carrying a jump cable or battery pack, chances are you KNOW how to use it, else why carry it.

CAA or equivalent may count that, someone people get a certain amount of recoveries then they charge etc,

Also a TOW or CAA/AAA may take ages, if your in a snow storm, uh good luck to that.

When I had the Porsche I ALWAYS carried a jump starter pack, just for the embarrassment factor.

And its a given that any damage (if any) is at the requesters own risk, I can't see how you can damage YOUR own car or a battery pack, unless your a complete tool, in which case you shouldn't be giving anyone any help.

A couple of times I was glad a stranger helped me out and vice versa. In the middle of nowhere dead cellphone and or kids in the car.

a guy who doesnt know how to give a jump shoulndt be driving IMHO

I'd just call someone too. I won't offer to jump someone I don't know.

Few people know how to correctly jump a car anyways. I don't want someone hooking up a cable wrong and damaging my electrical system OR have them blame me for damaging theirs.

Nope. That's what a cell phone and AAA or the equivalent are for.

 

[eastbaysubaru]

I've carried a spare battery pack and jump cables.

I've ALWAYS helped anyone who ask's or anyone I see.
If your carrying a jump cable or battery pack, chances are you KNOW how to use it, else why carry it.

CAA or equivalent may count that, someone people get a certain amount of recoveries then they charge etc,

Also a TOW or CAA/AAA may take ages, if your in a snow storm, uh good luck to that.

When I had the Porsche I ALWAYS carried a jump starter pack, just for the embarrassment factor.

And its a given that any damage (if any) is at the requesters own risk, I can't see how you can damage YOUR own car or a battery pack, unless your a complete tool, in which case you shouldn't be giving anyone any help.

A couple of times I was glad a stranger helped me out and vice versa. In the middle of nowhere dead cellphone and or kids in the car.

a guy who doesnt know how to give a jump shoulndt be driving IMHO

Agreed. I won't let someone else connect the jumper cables but I'm happy to help try to jump start someone's car when/if I can. I've certainly been the recipient of such help so I feel better trying to help when requested.

-Brian

 

[OldBarn]

They also have jumpers based on ultra capacitors. The advantage of these is that you can charge them up quickly from a low power source - like a dead car battery. A battery that doesn't have enough juice to crank an engine still has some watts left in it.

Not always an option, my car doesn't even have an option for a block heater.

A coolant heater or pad style oil pan heater can easily be attached to any car that has ever been made.

I had one company I deal with tell me the lithium units have a shelf life of 6 months and if in that time you have not used it or charged it you may as well throw it away.

Complete nonsense! Lead acid batteries go bad if you don't use them also.

I’m not an electrical engineer. Someone set me straight on how a 13 oz lithium-ion battery that (maybe?) generates 90 cranking amps can advertise that it’s capable of starting the dead 750CCA battery in a V8 truck...multiple times?!?

It's marketing BS mainly. Like the CFM numbers on air compressors. No V8 in a passenger vehicle uses 750 amps to start. More like 150. My diesel truck might use 200 or 250 in really cold weather. A small car uses less than 100. Starter motors are usually rated at a kilowatt or two.

 

[BeachBoy]

I have a Clore JNC660 from Amazon. "Jump 'n Carry"

Out here the AAA uses them for boasting all day long on cold days.

Very good buy. A month ago my battery was dead (like could not start after stopping for fuel)... The battery was simply not holding any charge. I have started the truck with the JNC at least 80 times without charging the unit...

But now instead of carrying that I have plugged a PriorityStart on my truck. No more boosting ever.

 

[TurboCup87]

There were perhaps two dozen Chinese companies at SEMA that had these little boosters.