Why don't tool companies have a forum?

[Merkava_4]

Have you ever wished for a more direct line of communication to the tool company? I have and I've wondered where the tool companies get their product feedback from. And then there's the truck brands - I guess they get all their feedback from the dealers.

If you could talk directly to a tool company's quality control specialist or product development engineer, what would you say?

 

[autoace]

I would say, cut out the gimmicks, and bring back bullet proof quality!PERIOD

Before my Grandfather passed, he was showing me his old tools, and said he had to warranty two(2) tools his entire career for legitimate quality claims. Getting defective items was almost unheard of according to him,he was talking the 1940's and 50's,maybe some 60's. My father has his old stuff now!

 

[Vinko]

RIDGID is the obvious one that has one.

 

[J.A.F.E.]

Craftsman has one.

 

[Merkava_4]

I better not join the Craftsman forum; they'd ban me the first day.

 

[J.A.F.E.]

I better not join the Craftsman forum; they'd ban me the first day.

Perhaps you could convert a few before you got banned.

 

[Merkava_4]

If I had a direct line to Craftsman, I'd tell them to bring back the black handle screwdrivers and Torx drivers.

 

[jerk_chicken]

Put one way: How many manufacturers would want to come to this forum, especially seeing comments that are made about foreigners, for instance, among other thing?

It's not safe for too many to be on a forum that allows such things. However, forums like mtbr have manufacturers who either overtly talk to and help the community, or in underhanded fashions use them for advertising using hidden spam or other methods. However, there's a lot that goes on there that's controversial (some even involving me!), but there's enough noise out there to drown out associations between good and bad.

However, that's waning as the forum is being (legitimately) questioned by users whose interests its supposed to be protecting.

 

[kythri]

Craftsman's forum has no manufacturer interaction.

Ryobi also has a forum, but, same thing - it's all users, no corporate.

 

[kythri]

Put one way: How many manufacturers would want to come to this forum, especially seeing comments that are made about foreigners, for instance, among other thing?

I haven't seen too many (if any) negative comments about foriegners, just foriegn origins, which really isn't the same thing.

I guess my thought is that if someone selling a foriegn-produced product can't deal with a pro-nationalism attitude, they need to get a thicker skin.

I think the manufacturer representatives that have come here have been treated quite well.

 

[jerk_chicken]

Hmmm... "Nationalism", for many, doesn't necessarily have the benign connotations you think it does.

As far as the "attitude" you're mentioning, several of those debates involve lack of knowledge of history, current events, or any level of evident education in the areas that come up in the discussion. Some of the things said have made me cringe, and as I've previously mentioned in "the other place", people talk more from emotion than they do from actual knowledge of the economics or the social impacts of such things as "outsourcing". I love reading how people think when Toyota manufactures here, 95% goes back to Japan, for instance.

Then comes the "free passes" to certain imported goods from certain countries deemed for "acceptable", which I see on every forum which involves manufactured goods.

 

[Stuey]

Craftsman's forum has no manufacturer interaction.

Ryobi also has a forum, but, same thing - it's all users, no corporate.

Exactly. Just b/c a company has a forum, doesn't mean it's used for direct interaction. Many computer component companies have forums, but they're mainly used for troubleshooting and such.

 

[Fedwrench]

Because it would negatively affect their bottom line. Skip the debate over the tools' country of origin and look at what people would post about. Some would want deeply discounted or free tools, some would want discount coupons they could reproduce forever, and some would point out negatives about the tools themselves that maybe weren't well known or the brand's lack of customer support. Even the best of tool brands would find this forum to be a tough crowd. Aside from the introduction of new products and gathering user preference data, I think it would be unwise for a manufacturer to interact with a tool forum but, that's just my opinion based on what I read here.

 

[kythri]

As far as the "attitude" you're mentioning, several of those debates involve lack of knowledge of history, current events, or any level of evident education in the areas that come up in the discussion. Some of the things said have made me cringe, and as I've previously mentioned in "the other place", people talk more from emotion than they do from actual knowledge of the economics or the social impacts of such things as "outsourcing".

Does one really need such knowledge to be dissatisfied with outsourcing, though?

That seems to be an elitist attitude - the unwashed masses haven't weighed all the angles, and they're too emotional about domestic jobs/production/etc being shipped overseas, so their opinions don't apply?

 

[kythri]

Because it would negatively affect their bottom line. Skip the debate over the tools' country of origin and look at what people would post about. Some would want deeply discounted or free tools, some would want discount coupons they could reproduce forever, and some would point out negatives about the tools themselves that maybe weren't well known or the brand's lack of customer support. Even the best of tool brands would find this forum to be a tough crowd. Aside from the introduction of new products and gathering user preference data, I think it would be unwise for a manufacturer to interact with a tool forum but, that's just my opinion based on what I read here.

There's always going to be jerks that want free/cheap merchandise, or they'll dog the brand. That said, I think the interaction with GearWrenchBrand (as an example) has been pretty darned positive, and I'd like to believe that more people are interested in the brand because of their interaction here.

Obviously, I'm biased, because I was already a customer, and I'm already inclined to like a lot of their product, but their presence here reinforces my positive feelings for the brand.

 

[jerk_chicken]

Does one really need such knowledge to be dissatisfied with outsourcing, though?

That seems to be an elitist attitude - the unwashed masses haven't weighed all the angles, and they're too emotional about domestic jobs/production/etc being shipped overseas, so their opinions don't apply?

No, you're the one interpreting it as "elitist" due to some shortcoming within yourself that has nothing to do with me. The fact that I'm speaking of is when someone says something about a product, it doesn't do anyone any justice to not know what they're talking about, if either for or against said product. Then you have a mob mentality, with others throwing down for "USA #1!" or other such niceties without knowing the full extent of the particular situation, as well as decoupling an emotional response from one being presented as fact.

 

[kythri]

Oh, obviously.

So, when I say that I prefer a US-made tool, I don't know what I'm talking about, because I don't know all of the economical or social impacts behind other tools being produced oversesas, and I'm being irrationally emotional with my pseudo-nationalism.

Gotcha.

 

[Keep]

Just go to any Corporations forums. Not many people post positive things. Almost everything posted is negative. Do you regularly call the company you purchase tools from and praise them for a product you really like? Not likely, most of the time people use the forums to ***** about stuff and demand free/cheap stuff in return.

I would not want to have to moderate a forum such as that. Hell some of the users here repeatedly bash certain "brands" of tools just because of the name stamped in the steel and not the quality of the tool.........

 

[jerk_chicken]

Oh, obviously.

So, when I say that I prefer a US-made tool, I don't know what I'm talking about, because I don't know all of the economical or social impacts behind other tools being produced oversesas, and I'm being irrationally emotional with my pseudo-nationalism.

Gotcha.

What if the US-made tool is poorly made and either doesn't last long in usage, or is simply not durable and breaks?

 

[krusty the clown]

geez..................why the hell did i click on this one.

 

[mikeatrpi]

Just because someone doesn't sign up and identify themselves as being a representative of Company X doesn't mean they aren't monitoring the forums in Lurk-Mode for market research. Like cops cruising the street racer boards, lots of people hide in the shadows.

 

[kythri]

What if the US-made tool is poorly made and either doesn't last long in usage, or is simply not durable and breaks?

Cite examples, both of such tools, and of people here promoting inherently-unstable tools over superior imports at a comparable price point.

 

[kythri]

Just because someone doesn't sign up and identify themselves as being a representative of Company X doesn't mean they aren't monitoring the forums in Lurk-Mode for market research. Like cops cruising the street racer boards, lots of people hide in the shadows.

That's not really the participation that some of us are looking for.

I'd love to see (for example) a Snap-On engineer come in here and answer questions from us uneducated emotional slackjaws, and point out exactly why Snap-On is a better tool than it's competition.

And, yes, I truly believe such an engineer would be treated with politeness and respect if he/she weren't simply spouting off marketing hype, but actually providing REAL information, results of internal testing, etc.

 

[jerk_chicken]

No, you're not going to play the game of citing examples. I asked a general question based on the hypothetical situation you also presented. You presented "I prefer to buy US-made tools". I asked "Even if the product is not well made?"

Now to wiggle out of it, you place conditions on this easy to answer hypothetical. It's not that hard to answer.

 

[The Muffin Man]

Come on guys, every other thread leads to the same argument.

 

[krusty the clown]

Come on guys, every other thread leads to the same argument.

with the same people baiting it............

 

[kythri]

No, you're not going to play the game of citing examples. I asked a general question based on the hypothetical situation you also presented. You presented "I prefer to buy US-made tools". I asked "Even if the product is not well made?"

That's a loaded question. I say "no, I won't buy poorly-made tools", and you or someone else says "but you buy Craftsman now!"

Your definition of poorly-made is different than my definition. You need to ask a question that one can actually posit a real answer, dude.

Now to wiggle out of it, you place conditions on this easy to answer hypothetical. It's not that hard to answer.

See above. It's not that easy to answer.

 

[Mike83]

I seem to remember Snap-On performing market research with a group of techs in California, having them use/compare various tools. I think they showed it on one of those YouTube videos. And like what was already mentioned, I bet drivers get a lot of feedback from their customers on what they like or don't like.

Craftsman market research consists of asking people what catalog cover they prefer - wrench skeleton or cordless hammer?

 

[jerk_chicken]

That's a loaded question. I say "no, I won't buy poorly-made tools", and you or someone else says "but you buy Craftsman now!"

Your definition of poorly-made is different than my definition. You need to ask a question that one can actually posit a real answer, dude.



See above. It's not that easy to answer.

So you have no answer. I'll load the question now- CM and Toptul seem comparable in price.

 

[posaune]

Craftsman market research consists of asking people what catalog cover they prefer - wrench skeleton or cordless hammer?

It is so sad (and hilarious) that that is true.

disclaimer: I have, use and like many Craftsman tools. I also own tools from Switzerland, Germany, China, Taiwan, France, and Italy that I like and use...

 

[kythri]

So you have no answer. I'll load the question now- CM and Toptul seem comparable in price.

I prefer Craftsman - it's US-made, and I have yet to see any proof that TopTul meets the same quality Craftsman does.

ETA: TopTul also can't supply anything on-demand, and they haven't established a distribution network that I can trust.

 

[Chris Adams]

So you have no answer. I'll load the question now- CM and Toptul seem comparable in price.

Where are you getting that idea?
And why would it be relevant?
I have many pounds of both brands, you are comparing apples and oranges here.
And with Apples at 48 cents a pound and Oranges at 1.39 a pound, the comparison gets even sillier.
TopTul sockets are so much better than Craftsman in finish, design, strength and have always cost me WAY less than Retail Craftsman.
Now Craftsman off E-bay can be cheaper than TopTul, but only if you buy large quantities.


I don't care where a tool is produced if I need it, but prefer local given my druthers. Which is how 80-90% of the posters in this forum feel.

You buy local over import yourself.

You are right that there are a lot of incendiary remarks posted, guys who say things like 'if it's from Harbor Freight, it's junk' that of course, are not true.
But you also get a lot of 'fan boy' posters for various European tools that are frankly, junk. I have lots of them, brand names that many say are just wonderful. They aren't.
Halo effect, and it's universal.
In most of Europe the Halo effect is almost compulsorily.
In France, it is required.
So allow for the people posting to be human beings. Not some vision of the way people should be.

 

[Chris Adams]

I prefer Craftsman - it's US-made, and I have yet to see any proof that TopTul meets the same quality Craftsman does.

While I frankly think your right, mostly, in your posts, I am afraid you are blind to the difference in this particular comparison.
Come by the house and see, if are near Southern California, or just order a few sockets from Mike, and then stop by Sears with them. You may be shocked.
And I probably have more Craftsman than you do.
My old stuff was pretty darn good, but way overpriced compared to today's prices.
My newest Craftsman, frankly, ain't very good.
You can see lots better at HF.
And again, I can back that up on the workbench if you like.

I wish Craftsman made better stuff right now. I WANT to prefer it.



ETA; yup can't argue that. Craftsman has the chops when it comes to local supply.
Though HF is easier to deal with locally on refunds and exchanges.

 

[Chris Adams]

error with the posting. Musta hit a wrong key....

 

[jerk_chicken]

I prefer Craftsman - it's US-made, and I have yet to see any proof that TopTul meets the same quality Craftsman does.

ETA: TopTul also can't supply anything on-demand, and they haven't established a distribution network that I can trust.

Can't answer the question straight. I thank you.

 

[MOPARHOUND!]

Hobart's welding forum is great for beginners or veterans...........with an occasional post by a Hobart engineer, and a Hobart guy that helps resolve quality/customer problems...........even some objective discussion about competing brands:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

 

[kythri]

Can't answer the question straight. I thank you.

What wasn't straight about the answer? You asked CM or TopTul. I answered CM.

Are you presenting TopTul as a superior quality import? Provide evidence to back it up. You can't, because there isn't any. All posts here have been anecdotal - it looks good/better than CM, etc.

It hasn't been present long enough, or in sufficient quantity to show any kind of measurable improvement over other domestic brands.

 

[kythri]

While I frankly think your right, mostly, in your posts, I am afraid you are blind to the difference in this particular comparison.
Come by the house and see, if are near Southern California, or just order a few sockets from Mike, and then stop by Sears with them. You may be shocked.
And I probably have more Craftsman than you do.
My old stuff was pretty darn good, but way overpriced compared to today's prices.
My newest Craftsman, frankly, ain't very good.
You can see lots better at HF.
And again, I can back that up on the workbench if you like.

I wish Craftsman made better stuff right now. I WANT to prefer it.



ETA; yup can't argue that. Craftsman has the chops when it comes to local supply.
Though HF is easier to deal with locally on refunds and exchanges.

What exactly is "better" about it? Nicer/shinier chrome with less nickel in it?

I've got quite a bit of import stuff - 8 different sets of GearWrenches, all of my impacts (even my 3/8" drive SAE Craftsman impacts are Taiwanese made), and I've got no issue with any of them.

I've got a set of Stanley "Professional" long-pattern SAE wrenches that I love - picked up cheap at Wal-Mart. I like them so much that I just bought the matching Metric set from Amazon, because nobody local carries them. Made in Taiwan or China, don't remember.

Do I wish that they were made in the US? Of course. But they're not.

 

[HandyManny]

Craftsman Club has a forum. Ridgid tools has a forum on the company website.

I think the question everyone should be asking, including the manufacurers is why aren't tool makers monitoring existing forums, like this forum? I think the tool makers would get a more candid insight as to what the end users think about certain tools.

 

[jerk_chicken]

What wasn't straight about the answer? You asked CM or TopTul. I answered CM.

Are you presenting TopTul as a superior quality import? Provide evidence to back it up. You can't, because there isn't any. All posts here have been anecdotal - it looks good/better than CM, etc.

It hasn't been present long enough, or in sufficient quantity to show any kind of measurable improvement over other domestic brands.

Really? It's funny you mention this, because every time I post nearly the EXACT SAME THING about Toptul, Mike posts a new thread to bury the old one. So I would argue that this forum is the Toptul forum.