Water heater clogged?

[BrShootr]

Hi everyone. Been lurking for a long time and finally have something to post. A post asking for help, no less. Lol

I have very low water flow coming from my water heater at home. I know I've seen water heaters have galvanic corrosion on the hot water pipe coming out of the heater but this one looks like the cold water intake is rusting. Could the rust be the cause of the low pressure? I haven't take pipes apart yet, I wanted some ideas as to the cause before I take the thing apart in the middle of winter. This has been an issue since we got the house 2 years ago and now it's just getting to me so it needs to be fixed now.

Image of the heater. Cold water on the right, hot water on the left.

Close up of the cd water line into the heater.

Cheers


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[the gypsy]

I don't think the copper side is the problem. I t is more likely that the problem is on the hot water side seeing that it is galvanized pipe.Do you know how old the galvanized pipe is? It may be rusting on the inside restricting the water flow.

 

[boobag]

have you double checked to make sure all valves are opened all the way? i know it may sound stupid, but i have come across that before.

 

[NUISANCE]

Maybe it's just me but it looks like the cold water pipe it sweating causing the corrosion that your see and if that is true then that shouldn't be the cause of the problem.

 

[fivespdcat]

First thing I would do is drain the heater. Yearly maintenance calls for this at a minimum and should be done more often in areas with hard water. After that I would inspect the outgoing piping. While intakes may cause a fill problem, the hot side will cause a slower feed. Additionally a water heater filled with sediment and calcium build up will reduce the heating capabilities.

Another question can be, is it really low flow? How does the water in your faucets come out with only the hot on? If it's ok, I would suspect the heater is just not working well.

 

[CNGsaves]

Have you had any kind of habit of periodically draining/flushing the hot water from bottom spigot ?? Turn off power (if electric) or shut off NG/Propane and connect garden hose to bottom spigot and drain out large portion of tank and see what comes out, and how quickly.

Also, with corrosion showing up like that, I'd recommend you pull anode rod. See YouTubes that cover this in detail. You'll need 1/2" drive breaker bar, big socket . . AND . . . CHEATER BAR. Have someone else bearhug the tank, while you put pressure on cheater bar to remove anode rod.

Lastly recommend removing cheezy plastic spigot on bottom and replace with brass stub pipe and ball valve so you can begin habit of annual or bi-annual draining of sediment in bottom of HWH. The faster flow through ball valve will get the crud out of there. Good luck.

P.S. Long term (or immediate if clogged), you need to start plan to replace galvanized on hot side with brass, then connect to either copper or PEX for whole house. If your whole house is still plumbed with galvanized steel, that is big portion of your problem. The insides of pipes could literally be filling up with **** that slows down your flow. Pull apart some unions and do investigative work. Goal needs to be only have copper, PEX or brass fittings (ie no galvi), with one exception of stainless steel flex pipe (or copper flex like you have on cold).

 

[Rudyjr]

I don't think the copper side is the problem. I t is more likely that the problem is on the hot water side seeing that it is galvanized pipe.Do you know how old the galvanized pipe is? It may be rusting on the inside restricting the water flow.

Exactly! When you finally pull that galvanized pipe you will wonder how any water was getting through at all.

 

[mires]

Most likely you have rust and corrosion clogging the hot side being that it is galvanized. In all honesty, I would look at just replacing the heater at this point and switching that galvanized section to a copper flex like the cold side.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Have you checked to see if shut offs under sinks are clogged or the lines just before them,does it do it on all the fixtures?
If its all the fixtures Id move on to the heater and supply side.
Do you have a valve up above on the cold water side of the water heater?If you do Id pull that cheesey flex line off and bury it in the bottem of trash can where it can do no more harm!They look like S4e-it,and leak .
Then Id put a bucket under the line and check the pressure coming into the water heater,if theres not a ball valve on there Id add one.
Then Id plumbing from there to the heater with 3/4" copper.
Then go to the hot water side and disconnect that old galvanized pipe and check the pressure coming out of the heater.
If you have decent pressure then its time to start unscrewing galvanized pipe and look for clogged/plugged pipes/fittings.

 

[G McKay]

Why not just pull them both and see what they look like?

 

[RV77]

We had this problem a couple years ago and found it to be the pick-up tube fell apart and was laying in bottom of tank.

Pressure was slowing weakening as you described.

 

[kc-steve]

It could be the galvanized pipe or the water heater. If visual inspection doesn't give a solid answer then replacing the water heater is definitely the cheaper solution. Water heaters don't last long, but I did have an unusual water heater that lasted me 27 years. I know that because I installed it and replaced it. It was full of corrosion but not really noticeable. It started leaking is why I replaced it.

Steve

 

[BrShootr]

Thanks for all the replies. For a multitude of reasons, including being a new homeowner with few tools at my disposal, I tend to do a lot of investigating before I actually put any work into a project.

The more I read into this, and from all the replies, the more I think the issue is a combination of old water heater and galvanized pipes being old. The house was built in the 50's and still has original pipes. The heater is 25 years old too. I doubt the heater was ever flushed and we have very hard water.

It all sounds like I should live with this through Winter and deal with it in the Summer. We have a crawl space which means replacing pipes should not be too tough (only problem will be the shower since I'll have to bust walls). With a heater that will probably go out any time and pipes that are that old, I may as well replace it all as preventative maintenance. At least the heater is cheaper than the new furnace/AC that was not properly installed.

Just glanced at Home Depot. They have wi-fi enabled water heaters... *scratches head*

 

[kc-steve]

. . . Just glanced at Home Depot. They have wi-fi enabled water heaters... *scratches head*

Ya, that's the latest techno nerd toy to hit the markets . . . the ability to change your household settings away from the house. You know, for those times when you want to impress your friends with how well you waste your money, (or "not waste your money" by changing the settings).

Steve

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Ya, that's the latest techno nerd toy to hit the markets . . . the ability to change your household settings away from the house. You know, for those times when you want to impress your friends with how well you waste your money, (or "not waste your money" by changing the settings).

Steve

 

[ishiboo]

Thanks for all the replies. For a multitude of reasons, including being a new homeowner with few tools at my disposal, I tend to do a lot of investigating before I actually put any work into a project.

The more I read into this, and from all the replies, the more I think the issue is a combination of old water heater and galvanized pipes being old. The house was built in the 50's and still has original pipes. The heater is 25 years old too. I doubt the heater was ever flushed and we have very hard water.

It all sounds like I should live with this through Winter and deal with it in the Summer. We have a crawl space which means replacing pipes should not be too tough (only problem will be the shower since I'll have to bust walls). With a heater that will probably go out any time and pipes that are that old, I may as well replace it all as preventative maintenance. At least the heater is cheaper than the new furnace/AC that was not properly installed.

Just glanced at Home Depot. They have wi-fi enabled water heaters... *scratches head*

Do you have a water softener? I watched a TOH where Richard said they wouldn't turn the water on with a new build until it was, as hard water wreaked havoc on appliances/etc. Also, sediment filters are cheap and you might install one just to see what you get.

Be sure to use the proper dielectrics when you replace it. One of the easiest ways is to just use PEX for the whole thing, going all the way to the nearest place you can easily remove the galvanized.

 

[ishiboo]

That galvanized looks like it was out recently, I would remove the union fitting and take the ****** off and look at it and the heater. I don't think it's on the galvanized side.

 

[BrShootr]

That galvanized looks like it was out recently, I would remove the union fitting and take the ****** off and look at it and the heater. I don't think it's on the galvanized side.

The part that scares me (pisses me off) is that I don't see a dielectric connection between the heater and the galvanized pipe. Shouldn't there be one? And, you're right they look like a newer connection though I am sure they're just as old as the heater.

Also, the cold water line has a slow leak. That's not rust on the pipes its hard water deposit from a very slow leak. The plastic connection between the tank and the pipes looks very flimsy (maybe with the plastic threads a dielectric sleeve is not needed?). I am afraid to break it trying to loosen the pipe and be out of hot water in mid winter.

Regarding the wi-fi, if the heater had some type of monitoring g system could see if being useful. The cost of not having to maintain the water hot through the day is marginal as I doubt a lot of heat is lost for a heater that is not in a basement. Or, I could make my own arduino controller to adjust the temperature as needed.


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[kc-steve]

. . . Regarding the wi-fi, if the heater had some type of monitoring g system could see if being useful. The cost of not having to maintain the water hot through the day is marginal as I doubt a lot of heat is lost for a heater that is not in a basement. Or, I could make my own arduino controller to adjust the temperature as needed.

Yeah, another good idea for energy saving is to simply wrap the water heater with insulation. That would be called a low tech option and the savings wouldn't rely on first paying off the wifi option or the apps for it.

Steve

 

[G_P]

Open the drain valve on the bottom of the tank. If you get good pressure/flow from there then the cold water inlet is fine. Although on a 25yr old heater you may not even get a drop out of the drain since its probably buried and clogged with sediment.

Even if the galvanized pipes right near the heater are clear inside, that does not mean that there isnt a piece of 50yr old galvanized pipe somewhere down the line that is likely so badly rusted inside that it only has a 1/8" passage through it.

I just had to cut out a piece of steel drain pipe in my house that had been there since 1952. It was 1 1/2" pipe but was so badly rusted inside that there was barely a 1/2" passage through the pipe, and the elbow on it had a 1/4" opening it was that badly rusted up.

 

[jhelrey]

Was at a job. Lady thought the pipes and froze. Start heating up the pipes and nothing. Cut pipe open and the galvanized pipe rusted itself shut. Ended up ripping out a lot and replumbing it.

 

[BrShootr]

Open the drain valve on the bottom of the tank. If you get good pressure/flow from there then the cold water inlet is fine. Although on a 25yr old heater you may not even get a drop out of the drain since its probably buried and clogged with sediment.

Even if the galvanized pipes right near the heater are clear inside, that does not mean that there isnt a piece of 50yr old galvanized pipe somewhere down the line that is likely so badly rusted inside that it only has a 1/8" passage through it.

My thoughts exactly. If there's one thing I've learned from my dad is that if you have a job to do, you better get the right tools and get it done right the first time. You see, he always used cheap knock-offs and mended things instead of properly fixing them. Each 30min job took hours, every repair had to be repeated every so often.

With a new heater being under $1k, I think I'm better off living with this through winter and just re-do the whole thing in the Summer. Might as well get it all fixed the right way. It's a small house, 1 bathroom back to back to the kitchen. Basically I am running one hot water line to the shared wall and drilling a hole through the floor for each of the kitchen and bathroom faucets. Shower will have to wait until I am ready for demolition work.

 

[BD1]

Depending on your setup, you could run the new piping along side of what is there now. Basically do everything now and just make the tie ins later. It won't seem so bad.

 

[CNGsaves]

OP . . . would really help if knew your location . . . Update GJ Profile.

Sounds like you may be warm climate as only crawl space and you don't talk as if freezing is a problem.

House from 50's with galvi water pipes needs completely re-plumbed. Your only decision is either: Copper ........... OR ............ PEX plastic water lines

Skip the 1st round of "Wi-fi enabled HWH" . . . WTF !!??@#?? Piss on that. Get your phone book out and find a wholesale supplier for plumbers (these companies also sell direct to public). Do not buy big box store (HD & Lowes) brand of Whirlpool as they're ****. I can get excellent quality Bradford White 40 gal natural gas HWH for around $330 . . . . . your estimate of $1K is way overkill. However, if you're within 500 miles, I'll come install a HWH for $1k if you just want to spend money !!

Good luck. Begin watching all the This Old House / HomeTime episodes that cover PEX plumbing water lines, and YouTubes so you're in the know. Knowledge is power, and will save you money.

Worst case scenario if you can't do HWH yourself, find plumber who'll agree to . . "Time & Materials" for routine install of HWH . . only IF the HWH goes out. This should be < $200 on yours (cuz it's easy) so with say a $350 HWH you'll be at $550 total. Don't get scammed into "great $799 HWH replacement" deal that plumbers will try to sell you. You go buy the HWH yourself so the plumber can't jack up price of that.

 

[bbrz]

Do not open the drain unless you want it to leak. The sealing washer by now is rock hard and will not re-seal. Your prob. is two fold. Galv. piping on the hot side with a galv. union also. Both are closing up on ya. You will see this when you take those fittings apart.
Short term fix-remove both hot and cold supplies and replace with box store braided WH connectors. Long term, replace WH and local piping.

 

[BrShootr]

Depending on your setup, you could run the new piping along side of what is there now. Basically do everything now and just make the tie ins later. It won't seem so bad.

That's the plan.

OP . . . would really help if knew your location . . . Update GJ Profile.

Sounds like you may be warm climate as only crawl space and you don't talk as if freezing is a problem.

House from 50's with galvi water pipes needs completely re-plumbed. Your only decision is either: Copper ........... OR ............ PEX plastic water lines

Skip the 1st round of "Wi-fi enabled HWH" . . . WTF !!??@#?? Piss on that. Get your phone book out and find a wholesale supplier for plumbers (these companies also sell direct to public). Do not buy big box store (HD & Lowes) brand of Whirlpool as they're ****. I can get excellent quality Bradford White 40 gal natural gas HWH for around $330 . . . . . your estimate of $1K is way overkill. However, if you're within 500 miles, I'll come install a HWH for $1k if you just want to spend money !!

Good luck. Begin watching all the This Old House / HomeTime episodes that cover PEX plumbing water lines, and YouTubes so you're in the know. Knowledge is power, and will save you money.

Worst case scenario if you can't do HWH yourself, find plumber who'll agree to . . "Time & Materials" for routine install of HWH . . only IF the HWH goes out. This should be < $200 on yours (cuz it's easy) so with say a $350 HWH you'll be at $550 total. Don't get scammed into "great $799 HWH replacement" deal that plumbers will try to sell you. You go buy the HWH yourself so the plumber can't jack up price of that.

I only threw the $1k figure as a general number, I don't expect the bill to be half as much. Though I know about the general stores to buy good equipment I appreciate the good advice. I only looked up HD because I knew they'd have a figure on their website.

I have built my parent's basement with the help of a friend who used to be a contractor. I learned a lot. I just have little experience diagnosing issues. Since the basement build I've hurt my back and have to be very careful with it (hence the extra research before diving into a project). The heater will probably be installed by a plumber, I can't imagine myself carrying that weight and positioning it. I rather use my back playing with my kid.

I am in Utah, while its not as cold as Montana, we have our sub-freezing weeks through winter.

Do not open the drain unless you want it to leak. The sealing washer by now is rock hard and will not re-seal. Your prob. is two fold. Galv. piping on the hot side with a galv. union also. Both are closing up on ya. You will see this when you take those fittings apart.
Short term fix-remove both hot and cold supplies and replace with box store braided WH connectors. Long term, replace WH and local piping.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking.

 

[BrShootr]

Alright, I just wanted to give everyone an update. I did not upgrade the water heater because I had an unexpected expense - needed a new roof!!

Well, I was hoping to make this heater last through one more winter but, as luck would have it, it started leaking and I need a new one. A local plumber has quoted me $780 for a new one installed. He uses the brand Bradford White exclusively (He'll install whatever one I want for $295). Have any of you heard of this brand before? Reviews online do not look too good.

In troubleshooting the existing heater leak, I got to look at the pipes and they don't look too bad. I think the hot water lines are only plugged in one or 2 locations and I bet most of it is near the connection between the steel and copper pipes. I feel a lot better about delaying the whole house plumbing upgrade now.

 

[CNGsaves]

Bradford White is good brand of water heater. That price isn't bad if 100% turn-key.

Get rid of all galvanized pipe possible while you're replacing HWH. Needs to be copper or plastic PEX.

 

[mires]

I'm a plumber and use Bradford White heaters exclusively. The reason we use them is because we have no problems with them. AND they are the only water heater made right here in the Unites States. That's a great price if it's from a licensed plumber. I would be right at $1,100 turn key. That would include a new ball valve, expansion tank, any rework the flue may need and disposal of the old unit.

 

[BrShootr]

Thanks for the replies, I feel a lot better about that brand now. The install covers replacement of the old unit and disposal. No expansion tank install and no flue rework is planned (I don't have an expansion tank). I will see how much he'll charge to replace the galvanized pipes into the laundry room where the heater is. I can do the work in the crawl space to replace everything else next spring.

I have a second plumber looking at it tomorrow, he is quoting $965 so both are within the same ballpark.

 

[TractorJeff]

New ones are not that heavy. Two wheeled cart for the old one as it will never drain totally.
BTW
The plastic fitting between the heater and the pipe is the Galvanic Break you mentioned as missing in an earlier post.
Side Note:
My parents house had 1/2" Galvanized so plugged with iron and rust, that they were plagued with low flow issues. 30 years later, the copper was all junk too. Pex was installed then.

 

[BrShootr]

Just had a second plumber look at the house. He measured the pressure at 115psi and recommended I install a pressure reducing valve. He also refused to install the heater without an expansion tank. Judging by mires post, sounds like an expansion tank is the way to go. He mentioned the warranty is void without it, is that true?

TractorJeff, if it wasn't for other issues that all came down at the same time, I'd be replumbing the whole house. Having said that, I think waiting until Spring or Summer of next year won't hurt. Any damage from the dielectric couplings would be done by now.

 

[404]

Pressure reducing valve prevents the tank from venting back into the supply line, thus the need for the expansion tank.

 

[Champ128]

I bet you would find the problem is on the side with the copper line not the galvanized. The dissimilar metals are causing electrolysis. When you pull the old one you will find the ****** is corroded almost shut. This is where the dielectric union should have been used. The galvanized doesn't require it since its tying to a galvanized ****** on the water heater. BW water heaters are great as long as your installer s good. My supply house had stated they had problems with installers either over tightening or under tightening the accessories such as the t&p valve. It can be hard to tell if it was leaking at the accessories because the insulation and jacket may hide it. Many of the other brands have the t&p valve installed at the factory.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The part that scares me (pisses me off) is that I don't see a dielectric connection between the heater and the galvanized pipe. Shouldn't there be one? And, you're right they look like a newer connection though I am sure they're just as old as the heater.

Also, the cold water line has a slow leak. That's not rust on the pipes its hard water deposit from a very slow leak. The plastic connection between the tank and the pipes looks very flimsy (maybe with the plastic threads a dielectric sleeve is not needed?). I am afraid to break it trying to loosen the pipe and be out of hot water in mid winter.

Regarding the wi-fi, if the heater had some type of monitoring g system could see if being useful. The cost of not having to maintain the water hot through the day is marginal as I doubt a lot of heat is lost for a heater that is not in a basement. Or, I could make my own arduino controller to adjust the temperature as needed.


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I havent used a dielectric union in years.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I bet you would find the problem is on the side with the copper line not the galvanized. The dissimilar metals are causing electrolysis. When you pull the old one you will find the ****** is corroded almost shut. This is where the dielectric union should have been used. The galvanized doesn't require it since its tying to a galvanized ****** on the water heater. BW water heaters are great as long as your installer s good. My supply house had stated they had problems with installers either over tightening or under tightening the accessories such as the t&p valve. It can be hard to tell if it was leaking at the accessories because the insulation and jacket may hide it. Many of the other brands have the t&p valve installed at the factory.

 

[BrShootr]

Got the new heater installed. It is set to the lowest "hot" setting and the water is plenty hot for our needs. The kitchen faucet which suffered the most from low water pressure has almost as good of hot water pressure as the cold.So far, no leaks from the pressure valve.

Installed unit:

This is what the new connection looks like. The plumber said these are dielectric couplings and therefore I don't need to worry about the copper/galvanized connection. I've never seen this before, but I sure like it.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Are you guys in an earthquake zone?

 

[RM209]

That looks like a nice dog you've got.

RM209

 

[deckmonkey]

Definitely a good price on the install and looks pretty good too. Only thing I would do/have to do if inspected is support the expansion tank. When the bladder goes it will weigh between 30-50 lbs with the extra water in it.

As far as needing it, I don't think so. Head plumbing inspector does. Ontario code requires "provision for thermal expansion" if a check valve or prv is installed on the main. Watts prv's have a built in thermal bypass to allow expansion back into the main. 115 psi main is less than 150 psi for tank relief valve. Should be fine, no? I lost that battle, expansion tank is right there, sir.